Priclessware.org endures. The Song Remains The Same.

T

Tramp

|I can't see what it is you feel should be held against her. Enlighten
|me, if you will.

The fact that she misrepresented the facts about the control panel.
<[email protected]>

The fact the she refused to answer questions such as

Why she needed access to the control panel?

Why she has to be the one to code any change in the database?
<[email protected]>

Why would a decision by this group to keep the current format
necessitate a move?
<[email protected]>

Can your database be transferred to the server? Will it manage
searches?
<[email protected]>

These questions were asked in the newsgroup. Susan choose to ignore
them. Why is that? Sure as hell didn't have anything to do with private
communications.

It's a mute point now. The Pricelessware site will remain. People know
the Pricelessware site. It's been around for a years now. Any site that
Susan chooses to make will just be a mirror of the Pricelessware site.
She can call it whatever she wants but it will not be Priceless.
 
S

Semolina Pilchard

|I can't see what it is you feel should be held against her. Enlighten
|me, if you will.

The fact that she misrepresented the facts about the control panel.
<[email protected]>

The fact the she refused to answer questions such as

Why she needed access to the control panel?
Click to expand...

I don't know the answer to that. From either side.
Why she has to be the one to code any change in the database?
<[email protected]>
Click to expand...

Is that the question? Zorro's recent post in this thread might
elucidate the differences between Susan's database and the proposed
database for you.
Why would a decision by this group to keep the current format
necessitate a move?
<[email protected]>
Click to expand...

Because it was proposed to change the site to a format unfamiliar to
Susan and over which the issues of control were undecided.
Can your database be transferred to the server? Will it manage
searches?
<[email protected]>
Click to expand...

I refer you to Zorro's post again.
These questions were asked in the newsgroup. Susan choose to ignore
them. Why is that? Sure as hell didn't have anything to do with private
communications.
Click to expand...

Some of it, at least, did. Other points were made clear, particularly
about the site's database format.
It's a mute point now. The Pricelessware site will remain. People know
the Pricelessware site. It's been around for a years now. Any site that
Susan chooses to make will just be a mirror of the Pricelessware site.
She can call it whatever she wants but it will not be Priceless.
Click to expand...

That remains to be seen.
 
H

Henk de Jong

Susan said:
I hope so to Henk. I hope this attempt to *split* the group is seen for what
it is. Having lost the election Genna is trying to steal the ballot box. . .
Click to expand...

No Susan, this is *really* not a good thing to say. What you say is
*no* contribution to my effort to calm the whole thing down. Like I
already said: you have done a good job this year on the PL. I also said
that I like this group to give you a chance with your new site. Don't
spoil this all with these kind of sayings you just did. You are not
only hurting me or Genna or SOS or Garrett with this, you are *also*
hurting yourself. Stop this, and start thinking and working on your own
PL-site.

With kind regards,

--
Henk de Jong
The Netherlands
(e-mail address removed) (Remove _NO_SPAM_)
'Links to Freeware'
http://www.linkstofreeware.vze.com/
http://home.hccnet.nl/hmdejong/
 
V

Vic Dura

The only thing I hope is that there will be no any unhealthy
competition between the two sites. Therefore I suggest that there will
be only one (1) vote for the yearly pricelessware. A solution for this
could be that Susan does the voting for this year, and Garrett (and
Genna and SOS) do this for next year. And so on. Of course, both sites
mention the *same* pricelessware-programs in the *same* categories, but
they are free in how they present that on their sites.
Click to expand...

That would require a lot of cooperation that I don't believe will be
possible.
 
S

Susan Bugher

Zorro said:
Susan contended she has a database and cited Quattro Pro, which I know and
love, and I understand perfectly well that what she has is an offline
database that can be transformed into HTML and posted as such.

Genna contended that an online database was required. I know of those, too,
and they function fine (I understand that Garrett's Web site was/is
essentially an online database).

How each method works is affects who has effective control of the
information and here there is a matter of trust (apparently lost for
reasons I don't need to know).

Susan's method relies on a database that is entirely independent of the
site setup and does not require any particular server-side specialized
software. The administrator can do it all offline and post it. It is
independent of whether a Web site host runs on Linux or Windows, whether it
runs on mysql or oracle or whatever. Control, in this instance, is entirely
in the hands of whomever has the most recently updated offline database. In
the setup that has prevailed until the present, this would mean Susan.
Click to expand...

That is changing - the alt.comp.freeware newsgroup now has a backup web
site maintainer :) :) :) - Burnr volunteered (in the new web site
thread) and he and I have been working together offlist.
Genna's method relies on a database that is dependent on server-side
software dependent, no matter what client software is used offline. Not all
hosts offer all particular software. Moreover, if the online database is
passworded, then the person who owns the domain and has the contract with
the host effectively controls the information.
Click to expand...

1. the domain name
2. the web site
3. the database

2 out of 3 was not enough?
As to who owns the information legally, that is debatable. Under U.S.
copyright law, the author of original work owns whatever he or she creates
from the moment it is written, painted, etc. Courts have held
that compilations of data, such as the telephone directory, cannot be
copyrighted -- although the format in which such data are arranged can be
protected. So no one can photocopy the telephone directory and sell that.

Arguably, the author of the form in which the Pricelessware List is
presented can claim ownership to that. Each vote and each message posted on
the news group, however, legally belongs to each author. Not the data, but
the unique form in which it is expressed. In the USA, ACF as such has no
legal standing as a person, thus the group, assuming it could all assemble
to petition a court, could not likely successfully sue.
Click to expand...

Genna's pages are copyrighted to Willow Brooke Mill
The pages I prepare are copyrighted to alt.comp.freeware
It seems to me that it is feasible for several sites to present the same
information in different ways, as SOS suggests. I'm opposed to boycotts and
hostile rivalries. Let a thousand flowers bloom, but let them all be
friendly to one another. Time takes care of things nicely enough.
Click to expand...

I agree entirely with that last paragraph.

Susan
 
?

=?iso-8859-1?Q?Omar=A9?=

Paul said:
On Thu, 01 Jul 2004 15:26:01 GMT, Son Of Spy wrote...


Rather than create our *own, perhaps you could just zip together all of
the HTML files, image files etc that form *your* site and simply let us
upload same to our own webspace :)

*(on the grounds of, if it ain't broke, don't fix it!)
Click to expand...

You have it...it is called "Pricelessware CD"
HTH
Omar
 
S

Susan Bugher

Vic said:
That would require a lot of cooperation that I don't believe will be
possible.
Click to expand...

We can but hope. I am most ready to cooperate - we need to iron out a
few misunderstandings first and establish the basis for cooperation.

Susan
 
H

Henk de Jong

Susan Bugher wrote on 1-7-2004 :
We can but hope. I am most ready to cooperate - we need to iron out a few
misunderstandings first and establish the basis for cooperation.
Click to expand...

Ok, that's a start. Not bad. Not bad at all.

Now I only can hope that you and Garrett can work something out. If
necessary, I am willing to help to achieve this. But I have my terms
for this offer. When you and Garrett want to work on this, and like to
know what my terms are, mail me. But please, do this quick, I won't be
staying up all night to wait for your mail.

With kind regards,

--
Henk de Jong
The Netherlands
(e-mail address removed) (Remove _NO_SPAM_)
'Links to Freeware'
http://www.linkstofreeware.vze.com/
http://home.hccnet.nl/hmdejong/
 
G

Garrett

Zorro wrote:

[snip]
It seems to me that it is feasible for several sites to present the
same information in different ways, as SOS suggests. I'm opposed to
boycotts and hostile rivalries. Let a thousand flowers bloom, but let
them all be friendly to one another. Time takes care of things nicely
enough.

Zorro (aka Elefante)
Click to expand...

Basically, just so long as the show goes on. Who's directing the show?
Who cares. We're not doing this for Emmy Nominations. We're suppose
to be doing this because we all love freeware.

I'm coming into this with the view that whatever happened between Susan
and Genna, stays with them and is in the past now.

I would very much like to see all the complications become
uncomplicated, but I'm not sure if that's possible. I personally have
no intentions of making any of this complicated. In fact, quite the
opposite... I want to make this all much easier for anyone and everyone.

-Garrett
 
A

Alastair Smeaton

It is unfortunate that Genna does not respect the wishes of
alt.comp.freeware newsgroup participants.

It is fortunate that the domain owner does not *own* the
*alt.comp.freeware newsgroup* or the *Pricelessware List*.

A domain name is simply a name - another name will be chosen for the new
Pricelessware List web site.


It is indeed unfortunate that contraints were imposed.

Susan
Click to expand...

Susan,

as stated before, I have kept out of this for now

But why do you start a new thread, posting from an old one ?

If you cannot/will not post why you think your disagreement with henna
is all her fault and nothing to do with you, then you should not be
posting these comments on this group.

I am not taking sides at all - it may well be that henna appears to be
being more adult about this, purely because she has posted less often
recently - but you are clearly not covering yourself in glory.

Either sort this out in private, or have the whole debate in public.

This mixture of posting publicly in a newsgroup, but keeping some
details private is ridiculous.
 
R

R. L.

The point is the new web site will *not* be a mirror site.
It will be the "official" web site for the Pricelessware
List. Anyone who wishes to mirror it is welcome to do so.
Click to expand...

Honestly, I have a "split" feeling about what is called
"official" (this is not the first time this comes up). As I
have said in another post, thinking about a.c.f. as a
"collective"(or an "organization) is just a convenient
concept. Yet it is also a conceptual "ideal" (as I said, I
like the posters here and it might as well be thought of as a
collective if one desires).

However, we all know that a newsgroup cannot be a strictly
defined "collective", not to mention it's hard for it to have
"an official this" or "official that" (people come and go,
use different identity...). So, even some people (e.g., you
and I or anyone) claim or wish that something is official -
how can this be supposedly entirely legitmated?

In fact, although the idea of "official" *might* perhaps be
what Genna orginally have in mind (just a guess, don't beat me
up if I am wrong :p ): to have an 'official website' for
Pricelessware. Nice thought if so, but I think time has
changed and there are no reasons hold onto old thoughts and
ideas that might not suit the situation.

In fact, it all depends on what one's goal is. And I am sure
many may agree that our goal here is not to have a
"collective", but IMO to promote freeware, to get freeware,
and to talk about freeware. To encourage more good freeware to
be produced and to get the users to know them. If this goal
is to be served, whether one site is official or not doesn't
matter anymore. If insisting on this and in turn causing
arguments and personal attacks in this group would only harm
the spirit of promoting freeware (I think we can do better
than that).

In fact, the more I thought about this whole issue of
"official" the more I think it is "outdated" (and pardon me to
say that: perhaps even bogus - an attractive idea, though).

When you think about it, what is "official" should not be the
website, but should be the "results", the contents, the
information (which is the valuable part). I think the list of
freeware got highly recommended (by polls, and we call
"votes" here) should be regarded as open source content -
anyone should have access to it and are free to report it or
reproduce it to their friends and family (just like freeware).

On the other hand, when one take about a website in this case,
it involves more, both the "design"(i.e., layout, colors...)
and the content. Yet, the content itself is not "own" by
anyone.

Hence the ONLY official *site*, *location*, or whatever ones
call it, for A.F.C., is IMO *here*, the forum itself, which
hosts the spirit and the discussions for the goal of freeware
promotion - nothing can replace that and it is the most
valuable thing we have :) Other websites (if you or someone
like to call it "official site"), can report the activities of
this group, but they are all "second-handed". Freeware rocks
the hardest here :blush:)





--
RL
*******************************************
Unofficial Adaware Updater:
http://home.earthlink.net/
~ringomei/Unofficial_adaware_updater.html

Little (File) Backer Upper:
http://home.earthlink.net/
~ringomei/Backup_tool_Backer_Upper.html

Uptime Quickie; Lefty Animated Cursors;
http://home.earthlink.net/~ringomei/page2.html
*******************************************
 
R

R. L.

Basically, just so long as the show goes on. Who's
directing the show? Who cares. We're not doing this for
Emmy Nominations. We're suppose to be doing this because
we all love freeware.

I'm coming into this with the view that whatever happened
between Susan and Genna, stays with them and is in the past
now.

I would very much like to see all the complications become
uncomplicated, but I'm not sure if that's possible. I
personally have no intentions of making any of this
complicated. In fact, quite the opposite... I want to make
this all much easier for anyone and everyone.

-Garrett
Click to expand...

Thanks!



--
RL
*******************************************
Unofficial Adaware Updater:
http://home.earthlink.net/
~ringomei/Unofficial_adaware_updater.html

Little (File) Backer Upper:
http://home.earthlink.net/
~ringomei/Backup_tool_Backer_Upper.html

Uptime Quickie; Lefty Animated Cursors;
http://home.earthlink.net/~ringomei/page2.html
*******************************************
 
P

*ProteanThread*

Semolina Pilchard said:
Ah, Mr.Thread. You quote 40 lines to answer one. How economical of
you!

If cogency of argument could be equated with number of lines quoted
and the amount of garbled, ill thought out rubbish typed, you'd have
won long ago. Indeed, I defy anyone to follow such logic as may exist
in your recent posts.

You're a morphing little fellow, aren't you? I've stuck you in my
bozo bin four times but you always pop out again, like any troll. I
don't think you are a troll, however, just a poor miserable lackwit
with just enough grey matter to realise that most people would prefer
to avoid your witless maunderings, so you change persona and carry on
as before.

Do yourself a favour, Mr. Thread. Type your inspired thoughts into a
text editor, leave them for an hour, then delete them. Your
contribution will be so much more appreciated.
Click to expand...


Thank you, very much.

Do you kill file everyone you disagree with ? How adult of you.


--

Woodzy

http://www.rtdos.com (alt OS for games based on the classics)
http://rtdos.com/debate (charged political discussion)
http://rtdos.com/forum (rtdos message boards)
http://rtdos.com/rtdos (rtdos active developer chat)

http://rtdos.com/chat
Chats scheduled every Thursday @ 7PM MDT (0100 GMT) and
every Sunday @ 1PM MDT (1900 GMT)
 
R

ranrad

On Thu, 01 Jul 2004 19:17:52 +0100, Semolina Pilchard wrote:

snip
I suggest that we concentrate on finding an appropriate name and site
for Pricelessware.
Click to expand...

pricelessware.org is both an appropriate name and site, and it already
exists. Aint that good :)
 
J

John Fitzsimons

1)Genna will not sell or lease the domain.
Click to expand...

GREAT ! Best news of the week. Thank goodness she didn't respond
differently to Susan's quest for total control over everything.
2) It is unfortunate that Susan feels unable to work under the
constraints imposed by the domain owner.
Click to expand...

Sure is. Now she can pick up her marbles and play elsewhere.
3) A new site administrator has volunteered, who has superb
qualifications, unimpeachable character, the confidence of myself and
Genna plus the time to implement improvements/necessary changes in a
timely fashion
Click to expand...
4)The volunteer is none other than Garrett, onetime administrator of
FreewareHome and friend and supporter of Pricelessware since its
inception...
Click to expand...

Fantastic news. Well done ! Someone who can do the job without the
tantrums, lies, distortions etc.
5)We are gratified that such an able candidate has seen fit to step
forward in this, our hour of need.
Agreed.

6) We strongly urge all members of the newsgroup to create their own PL
site. The more the merrier to get the word out in theonline community
that freeware options as opposed to "free downloads" still exist.
Click to expand...

Good advice.

Regards, John.
 
J

John Fitzsimons

On Thu, 01 Jul 2004 14:41:17 -0400, Susan Bugher

51 people voted in the referendum to move the PL web site
Click to expand...

No, that isn't the case as you well know. Why do you need to be
a liar ? Do you think that will help your "cause" ?

Many people, myself included, voted that you move your PL files
elsewhere if you refused to co-operate with Genna. That is
something quite different than moving the PL domain.

There is no need for the PL domain to move. Garrett will do an
excellent job for the group. As he has done in the past.

Many thanks Garrett. Well done ! :)

Regards, John.
 
J

John Fitzsimons

On Thu, 01 Jul 2004 16:10:26 -0400, Susan Bugher

I hope so to Henk. I hope this attempt to *split* the group is seen for
what it is.
Click to expand...

< snip >

< ROFL > Your attempt to split the group WAS seen for what it was.
A power grab by yourself. A rather nasty one at that.
 

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