Presario 5365/Win98SE - inexplicable shutdowns to a blinking cursor

[Mediamon]

Hi. I just posted this to alt.sys.pc-clone.compaq. Now I am finding other
newsgroups that this topic is appropriate. But not sure how to forward
original post to other related newsgroups without crossposting. So may
apologies in advance. Follow-up set to alt.sys.pc-clone.compaq


I'm helping a friend with his Compaq Presario 5365 running Win98SE on
AMD K6-3D Cpu (400MHZ I think). Mobo manufacturer unknown with SIS 530
chipset.

Friend reports PC was acting sluggish and sometimes locking up. Says it
possibly began after a Windows Update was cancelled in the middle of
download.

At the same time he syas Norton Anti-Virus 2003 Pro was acting funky, as
NAV would not lauch from the system tray.

So I uninstalled NAV 2003 with the intent on re-installing (and updating
NAV via LiveUpdate).

However following the NAV uninstall I observed PC shuts down at random
times, usually after after 10-30 minutes after starting windows. The PC
functions just fine until inexplicable shutdown. (PC shuts down no
matter which apps are running, or if on internet or not).

When it shutsdown I just see blackscreen with blinking cursor in upper
left corner.

I installed Zone Alarm Internet Security Suite 6.x and also Adaware SE
and attempted to scan system but PC shutsdown in the middle of the
scannning with either.

Installed HijackThis but no unusual tasks running.

I ensured no bad BHOs were installed In IE.

I connected fine to internet and using IE6 ran Windows Update and
installed the latest critical updates for IE6 and Win98. And revisiting
WindowsUpdate shows all critical updates installed.

I disabled the screensaver, wallpaper, and power management.

Ran System File Checker (SFC) in Safe Mode.
SFC reported the following files may be corrupted:
C:\windows\system\setupx.dll
C:\windows\system\fpwpp.dll

(used defualt search settings - searched
C:\windows\system
C:\windows\system32
C:\Program Files\Accessories
C:\Program Files\Common Files

for files with following extnesions:
386 / com /dll /drv / exe / mpd / ocx /scr / sys / vxd


System has MS Office 2000 installed. But FrontPage appears to not be
installed. So uncertain source of fpwpp.dll listed above.

I double checked all the tasks which were running and all related to
hardware installed on machine (I removed unneccessary tasks/services).
Still shuts down.

I cannot test impact of items showing up in tasklist related to HP LJ1000
printer, as friend did not bring printer with (I'm avoiding uninstalling
for this reason).

In MSCONFIG I chose Selective Startup and unchecked everything so they
would not load at Windows startup. PC still shutsdown unexpectedly.

I've allowed the system to sit idle in SafeMode to see if unexpectedly
shutsdown there as well. But it does not.

Right now before I post this I have regular Windows launched, with
selective startup chosen. Only items in task list is explorer, cpqeadm
(compaq keybd utility), bttnserv (compaq easy buttons utility), em_exec
(logitech), and systray. No HP printer or scanner drivers loaded.

I have had on for a half hour and no crash! So maybe it is an issue
related to the LaserJst drivers? Will see if PC is crashed in the
morning.... Yep it crashed.

I have mixed thoughts on if it is a Windows issue or hardware issue.

Bootlog.txt shows following four errors:

LoadFailed = C:\ESSOLO.sys
(which i think are real mode sound drivers... not needed... sound works
fine in Windows)

LoadFailed = ndis2sup.vxd
(not sure why this is but PC conencts to the intternet via dial-up fine
and PC is not conencted to a LAN)

INITCOMPLETEFAILED = SIS530V
(I assume this is for the SIS chipset with integrated video' video seems
to be fine in windows)

INITCOMPLETEFAILED = SDVXD
(not sure yet what this is)

No bad entries appear in Device Manager (no question marks) and all
hardware appears to be working correctly.

I ran scandisk from DOS prompt and some lost clusters were found and
were auto fixed. And then also ran full surface scan and a bad sector or
two was found which scandisk flagged.

Opening case I checked to be sure power supply and cpu fans were working
and areas around CPU was clear. Components don't seem to get overly
warm.

Discovered the original 64MB RAM in PC (PC-100), was upgraded with two
additional 256MB PC-133 SDRAM mods. But Windows only reports 444MB
(whereas 576MB=256+256+64 total was installed). I assume the system
board just does not support more than 444MB? Anywya I awapped in and out
different combos of RAM modules, and re-ordering mods in sockets with no
positive results.

The Compaq BIOS Setup is quite lean (the fewest settings I have
observed). Does not provide any settings to alter memory timings, etc.

My friend states that the RAM was upgraded almost a year ago so and was
not having issues until recently.

I tested the ATX PowerSupply with an Antec PS tester and shows OK.

As a FYI...

My friend pulled the orginal hard drive from system in favor of a new
larger 80GB 9image of original hard drive was copied over a year ago or
so, same time as RAM upgrade). So I assume any hidden partion mirror
recovery files on the orginal hard drive are no longer available.

But found new hard drive has hidden system.sav directory which appears
to be the Windows recovery files (friend states he did not get a
recovery CD with PC, but I am not sure, As I assumed Compaq was
delivering OEM WIn98 CD with PC's back then).

Also I see C:\bootdisk which contains files to create a recovery
bootdisk.

I'm sure I'm forgetting to include the many other diags I've performed.

Any thoughts on how to proceed troubleshooting this?

Should I proceed with a Windows repair from CD (I have Win98SE boot
floppy also)? If so which specific steps are recommended? Run Setup from
the hard drive hoping the PC will not crash?

Woody

 

[Rod Speed]

Hi. I just posted this to alt.sys.pc-clone.compaq. Now I am finding
other newsgroups that this topic is appropriate. But not sure how to
forward original post to other related newsgroups without crossposting.

Cross posting is in fact the best approach. That way
those who read more than one group in the list see the
post marked as read in the other groups they read.

So may apologies in advance. Follow-up set to alt.sys.pc-clone.compaq

Followup molesting reversed.

I'm helping a friend with his Compaq Presario 5365
running Win98SE on AMD K6-3D Cpu (400MHZ I think).
Mobo manufacturer unknown with SIS 530 chipset.

Friend reports PC was acting sluggish and sometimes
locking up. Says it possibly began after a Windows
Update was cancelled in the middle of download.

Much more likely to be a coincidence.

At the same time he syas Norton Anti-Virus 2003 Pro was
acting funky, as NAV would not lauch from the system tray.

Worth trying a different anti virus, some viruses molest NAV.

So I uninstalled NAV 2003 with the intent on re-installing
(and> updating NAV via LiveUpdate).

However following the NAV uninstall I observed PC shuts down at
random times, usually after after 10-30 minutes after starting windows.
The PC functions just fine until inexplicable shutdown. (PC shuts
down no matter which apps are running, or if on internet or not).

When it shutsdown I just see blackscreen
with blinking cursor in upper left corner.

I installed Zone Alarm Internet Security Suite 6.x and
also Adaware SE and attempted to scan system but
PC shutsdown in the middle of the scannning with either.

Installed HijackThis but no unusual tasks running.

I ensured no bad BHOs were installed In IE.

I connected fine to internet and using IE6 ran Windows Update
and installed the latest critical updates for IE6 and Win98. And
revisiting WindowsUpdate shows all critical updates installed.

I disabled the screensaver, wallpaper, and power management.

Ran System File Checker (SFC) in Safe Mode.
SFC reported the following files may be corrupted:
C:\windows\system\setupx.dll
C:\windows\system\fpwpp.dll

(used defualt search settings - searched
C:\windows\system
C:\windows\system32
C:\Program Files\Accessories
C:\Program Files\Common Files

for files with following extnesions:
386 / com /dll /drv / exe / mpd / ocx /scr / sys / vxd

System has MS Office 2000 installed.

But FrontPage appears to not be installed.
So uncertain source of fpwpp.dll listed above.

I double checked all the tasks which were running and all related to
hardware installed on machine (I removed unneccessary tasks/services).
Still shuts down.

I cannot test impact of items showing up in tasklist related to HP
LJ1000 printer, as friend did not bring printer with (I'm avoiding
uninstalling for this reason).

In MSCONFIG I chose Selective Startup and unchecked everything so they
would not load at Windows startup. PC still shutsdown unexpectedly.

I've allowed the system to sit idle in SafeMode to see if unexpectedly
shutsdown there as well. But it does not.

Right now before I post this I have regular Windows launched, with
selective startup chosen. Only items in task list is explorer, cpqeadm
(compaq keybd utility), bttnserv (compaq easy buttons utility),
em_exec (logitech), and systray. No HP printer or scanner drivers
loaded.

I have had on for a half hour and no crash! So maybe it is an issue
related to the LaserJst drivers? Will see if PC is crashed in the
morning.... Yep it crashed.

I have mixed thoughts on if it is a Windows issue or hardware issue.

Bootlog.txt shows following four errors:

LoadFailed = C:\ESSOLO.sys
(which i think are real mode sound drivers... not needed... sound
works fine in Windows)

LoadFailed = ndis2sup.vxd
(not sure why this is but PC conencts to the intternet via dial-up
fine and PC is not conencted to a LAN)

INITCOMPLETEFAILED = SIS530V
(I assume this is for the SIS chipset with integrated video' video
seems to be fine in windows)

INITCOMPLETEFAILED = SDVXD
(not sure yet what this is)

No bad entries appear in Device Manager (no question marks) and all
hardware appears to be working correctly.

I ran scandisk from DOS prompt and some lost clusters were found and
were auto fixed. And then also ran full surface scan and a bad sector
or two was found which scandisk flagged.

Opening case I checked to be sure power supply and cpu fans were
working and areas around CPU was clear. Components don't seem to get
overly warm.

Discovered the original 64MB RAM in PC (PC-100), was upgraded
with two additional 256MB PC-133 SDRAM mods. But Windows
only reports 444MB (whereas 576MB=256+256+64 total was installed).

That may well be important. Likely some is lost to
the onboard video, but the numbers still dont add up.

I assume the system board just does not support more than 444MB?

Very unlikely.

Anywya I awapped in and out different combos of RAM modules,
and re-ordering mods in sockets with no positive results.

What happened with the total reported ?

The Compaq BIOS Setup is quite lean (the fewest settings I have
observed). Does not provide any settings to alter memory timings, etc.

My friend states that the RAM was upgraded almost
a year ago so and was not having issues until recently.

I tested the ATX PowerSupply with an Antec PS tester and shows OK.

Doesnt prove a lot.

As a FYI...

My friend pulled the orginal hard drive from system in favor of a new
larger 80GB 9image of original hard drive was copied over a year ago
or so, same time as RAM upgrade). So I assume any hidden partion
mirror recovery files on the orginal hard drive are no longer available.

But found new hard drive has hidden system.sav directory which appears
to be the Windows recovery files (friend states he did not get a
recovery CD with PC, but I am not sure, As I assumed Compaq was
delivering OEM WIn98 CD with PC's back then).

Also I see C:\bootdisk which contains files to create a recovery
bootdisk.

I'm sure I'm forgetting to include the many other diags I've
performed.

Any thoughts on how to proceed troubleshooting this?

I'd image the current hard drive, do a clean 98SE install,
see if it still shuts down. That basically distinguishes
between a hardware and an OS/software problem.

Likely you will find its a hardware problem in which case its time to
check for bad caps on the motherboard and try a power supply swap.

Should I proceed with a Windows repair from CD (I have Win98SE
boot floppy also)? If so which specific steps are recommended?
Run Setup from the hard drive hoping the PC will not crash?

Generally best to do a clean install of 98SE, thats really the only way to
clean up the mess if the install has got comprehensively screwed over time.
It'd be unusual to get a timed crash like that due to the OS tho.

 

[Mediamon]

Much more likely to be a coincidence.


Worth trying a different anti virus, some viruses molest NAV.

Will try another AV app out.

That may well be important. Likely some is lost to
the onboard video, but the numbers still dont add up.


Very unlikely.


What happened with the total reported ?

With just 64MB installed OS reported correctly.
With just 256MB installed OS reported correctly.
With 64MB + 256 MB installed OS repoted corectly
With 256MB + 256MB installed OS reported incorrectly (380MB).
With 64MB + 256MB + 256MB installed OS reported incorrectly. (444MB)

Now from the numbers above I am suspecting one of the 256MB modules is
actually a 128MB module. Didn't notice that before.

I'd image the current hard drive, do a clean 98SE install,
see if it still shuts down. That basically distinguishes
between a hardware and an OS/software problem.

Likely you will find its a hardware problem in which case its time to
check for bad caps on the motherboard and try a power supply swap.


Generally best to do a clean install of 98SE, thats really the only
way to clean up the mess if the install has got comprehensively
screwed over time. It'd be unusual to get a timed crash like that due
to the OS tho.

Yes imaging the hard drive is what I should do, then re-install Win98SE
from scratch. Trying to fget around it.

I wish I had a spare ATX PS to test out.

They system is running cool, including power supply and CPU.

Also I should have included in my orginal post that during the Windows
Start Up, when the Add New Hardware Wizard dialog appears (for PNP
Monitor... which I don't want to install INF for this temporary monitor I
am using for troubleshooting), if I let the PC idle at that dialog screen
the PC does not shut down inexplicably.

Again it does not shut down in safe mode.

PC only shuts down only after Windows has been fully started-up for
awhile.

So right now the possibilities I see:

1. RAM memory issue
2. Power supply issue
3. Viral/malware infection (mutating so cannot be easily
identified/removed)?
4. Corrupted Win98 installation (need to image/clean install)

Trying to figure out the best course of deduction.

Woody

 

[kony]

That may well be important. Likely some is lost to
the onboard video, but the numbers still dont add up.

The board is only seeing 1/2 of the 2nd 256MB module, and
4MB allocated to video. Depending on how you look at it
(ignoring cost per MB), it's not necessarily a problem, he
should just test with memtest86 and consider pulling out the
64MB module only using the other two in the first two
slots... if it'll see all of both of them then.




Take voltage readings with a multimeter.
Reseat all cards, cables, etc, and clean out dust if
applicable. Check fans/etc.

It'd be unusual to get a timed crash like that due to the OS tho.

Agreed, it's probably not the OS.

 

[Mediamon]

Just let it install the PNP monitor then, or manually tell
it to use the same INF file for the present monitor as it
had used for the former monitor, IF the monitor will accept
that, is compatible enough at your target resolution.

OK, I went ahead and pointed the Add New HW Wizard to C:\windows\inf
\monitor.inf

And the the HW wizard successfully completed.

And I haft left WIndows open for an hour and so far no crashes!!!

I have never observed such issue before.
Thanks to all for your suggestions.

Woody

 

[meow2222]

Hi. I just posted this to alt.sys.pc-clone.compaq. Now I am finding other
newsgroups that this topic is appropriate. But not sure how to forward
original post to other related newsgroups without crossposting. So may
apologies in advance. Follow-up set to alt.sys.pc-clone.compaq


I'm helping a friend with his Compaq Presario 5365 running Win98SE on
AMD K6-3D Cpu (400MHZ I think). Mobo manufacturer unknown with SIS 530
chipset.

Friend reports PC was acting sluggish and sometimes locking up. Says it
possibly began after a Windows Update was cancelled in the middle of
download.

At the same time he syas Norton Anti-Virus 2003 Pro was acting funky, as
NAV would not lauch from the system tray.

So I uninstalled NAV 2003 with the intent on re-installing (and updating
NAV via LiveUpdate).

However following the NAV uninstall I observed PC shuts down at random
times, usually after after 10-30 minutes after starting windows. The PC
functions just fine until inexplicable shutdown. (PC shuts down no
matter which apps are running, or if on internet or not).

When it shutsdown I just see blackscreen with blinking cursor in upper
left corner.

I installed Zone Alarm Internet Security Suite 6.x and also Adaware SE
and attempted to scan system but PC shutsdown in the middle of the
scannning with either.

Installed HijackThis but no unusual tasks running.

I ensured no bad BHOs were installed In IE.

I connected fine to internet and using IE6 ran Windows Update and
installed the latest critical updates for IE6 and Win98. And revisiting
WindowsUpdate shows all critical updates installed.

I disabled the screensaver, wallpaper, and power management.

Ran System File Checker (SFC) in Safe Mode.
SFC reported the following files may be corrupted:
C:\windows\system\setupx.dll
C:\windows\system\fpwpp.dll

(used defualt search settings - searched
C:\windows\system
C:\windows\system32
C:\Program Files\Accessories
C:\Program Files\Common Files

for files with following extnesions:
386 / com /dll /drv / exe / mpd / ocx /scr / sys / vxd


System has MS Office 2000 installed. But FrontPage appears to not be
installed. So uncertain source of fpwpp.dll listed above.

I double checked all the tasks which were running and all related to
hardware installed on machine (I removed unneccessary tasks/services).
Still shuts down.

I cannot test impact of items showing up in tasklist related to HP LJ1000
printer, as friend did not bring printer with (I'm avoiding uninstalling
for this reason).

In MSCONFIG I chose Selective Startup and unchecked everything so they
would not load at Windows startup. PC still shutsdown unexpectedly.

I've allowed the system to sit idle in SafeMode to see if unexpectedly
shutsdown there as well. But it does not.

Right now before I post this I have regular Windows launched, with
selective startup chosen. Only items in task list is explorer, cpqeadm
(compaq keybd utility), bttnserv (compaq easy buttons utility), em_exec
(logitech), and systray. No HP printer or scanner drivers loaded.

I have had on for a half hour and no crash! So maybe it is an issue
related to the LaserJst drivers? Will see if PC is crashed in the
morning.... Yep it crashed.

I have mixed thoughts on if it is a Windows issue or hardware issue.

Bootlog.txt shows following four errors:

LoadFailed = C:\ESSOLO.sys
(which i think are real mode sound drivers... not needed... sound works
fine in Windows)

LoadFailed = ndis2sup.vxd
(not sure why this is but PC conencts to the intternet via dial-up fine
and PC is not conencted to a LAN)

INITCOMPLETEFAILED = SIS530V
(I assume this is for the SIS chipset with integrated video' video seems
to be fine in windows)

INITCOMPLETEFAILED = SDVXD
(not sure yet what this is)

No bad entries appear in Device Manager (no question marks) and all
hardware appears to be working correctly.

I ran scandisk from DOS prompt and some lost clusters were found and
were auto fixed. And then also ran full surface scan and a bad sector or
two was found which scandisk flagged.

Opening case I checked to be sure power supply and cpu fans were working
and areas around CPU was clear. Components don't seem to get overly
warm.

Discovered the original 64MB RAM in PC (PC-100), was upgraded with two
additional 256MB PC-133 SDRAM mods. But Windows only reports 444MB
(whereas 576MB=256+256+64 total was installed). I assume the system
board just does not support more than 444MB? Anywya I awapped in and out
different combos of RAM modules, and re-ordering mods in sockets with no
positive results.

The Compaq BIOS Setup is quite lean (the fewest settings I have
observed). Does not provide any settings to alter memory timings, etc.

My friend states that the RAM was upgraded almost a year ago so and was
not having issues until recently.

I tested the ATX PowerSupply with an Antec PS tester and shows OK.

As a FYI...

My friend pulled the orginal hard drive from system in favor of a new
larger 80GB 9image of original hard drive was copied over a year ago or
so, same time as RAM upgrade). So I assume any hidden partion mirror
recovery files on the orginal hard drive are no longer available.

But found new hard drive has hidden system.sav directory which appears
to be the Windows recovery files (friend states he did not get a
recovery CD with PC, but I am not sure, As I assumed Compaq was
delivering OEM WIn98 CD with PC's back then).

Also I see C:\bootdisk which contains files to create a recovery
bootdisk.

I'm sure I'm forgetting to include the many other diags I've performed.

Any thoughts on how to proceed troubleshooting this?

Should I proceed with a Windows repair from CD (I have Win98SE boot
floppy also)? If so which specific steps are recommended? Run Setup from
the hard drive hoping the PC will not crash?

Woody

Once youve lost data on the hdd you may have a mucked up OS. At that
point its generally better to clean reinstall than fiddle about trying
to fix what probably cant be fixed anyway.

I'd do that then see how it behaves. As others have said it sounds more
hardware, but theres no real knowing until you've eliminated what is
probably bad software.

Suggest putting the old drive back and using that to put win on, and
having the new drive there as well for now. Since you may be losing
data on it, it may also be dying. Either way make sure you're backing
up properly as the newer hdd might die soon. Or might not, ya dont
really know at this point.

I've never found sfc any real use myself.


NT