power supply, cheap vs. expensive

[Ken Hall]

By the way, if you're into quiet, a really nice supply is this one
http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproduct.asp?DEPA=0&submit=Go&description=antec,380

I would probably have selected this one if it weren't for the fact
that the loudest item in my case (pun intended) is the CPU fan and
this supply cost $20 more than the SL350.

Ken

 

[larrymoencurly]

Well, I've taken the advice and I'm looking for quality over price.

Any comments on this particular one:
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=17-103-912&catalog=58&depa=0

They're good, but when I tested my 300W version with a 380W load it
sagged a bit more, percentage-wise, than my 300W Fortron/Sparkle and
Delta PSUs. Still, it remained within specs, and its transformer
probably didn't overheat (checked only after unplugged, otherwise lots
of exposed high voltage inside even on the heatsink).

Save your money and buy one of these PSUs instead:

www.newegg.com/app/viewproduct.asp?DEPA=0&submit=Go&description=fortron

That's as little as $20 for a 350W Fortron (Hi-Q brand), but if you
want to splurge/waste money, look at that $69 530W Fortron.

 

[jeffc]

Save your money and buy one of these PSUs instead:

www.newegg.com/app/viewproduct.asp?DEPA=0&submit=Go&description=fortron

That's as little as $20 for a 350W Fortron (Hi-Q brand), but if you
want to splurge/waste money, look at that $69 530W Fortron.

Fortron have gotten good reviews, but compare specific model numbers when
searching the web for reviews before buying, and make sure you're looking at
the same model numbers.

 

[Ed Medlin]

So, I'm in need of a new power supply, and I see they come in prices: very
cheap, and very expensive, for the same wattages.
What's the difference? What extra are you getting from the more expensive
one you're not getting from the cheap one?
For example: http://www.str8buy.com/powersupplyups.html
400 watt supplies come in $11 and $72 versions. What in the world justifies
that huge of a difference in price?

Also, side question, any recommendations on what's a good wattage for this
setup?
AMD Athalon XP 1600+ CPU
Radeon 9600XT 128 MB video
one 512MB PC2300(?) RAM
two 20GB HD's
CD ROM and a ZIP drive
two case fans
two mobo fans
PCI fan for the video card

Thanks!!
Liam

Use the old "pick up and inspect" theory. A good quality PSU will actually
even weigh a lot more than the cheap ones. This is due to much higher
quality components inside. The PSU is arguably the most important component
you put into your system. Everything is dependent on it to work correctly.
You should never skimp on the PSU. That $60.00 difference in price is
trivial compared to the overall price of building a system and is a very
good investment for a stable system.


Ed

 

[jeffc]

Use the old "pick up and inspect" theory. A good quality PSU will actually
even weigh a lot more than the cheap ones. This is due to much higher
quality components inside.
True.

The PSU is arguably the most important component
you put into your system. Everything is dependent on it to work correctly.

Without trying to nitpick, this is pretty banal reasoning. Every ad in the
world could say (and does say!) this about their particular product, and
none of them are really wrong. I mean, what is the most important organ in
your body; heart? lungs? brain? answer: does it make any difference which
one you lose?

You should never skimp on the PSU. That $60.00 difference in price is
trivial compared to the overall price of building a system and is a very
good investment for a stable system.

Agreed.

 

[jeff findley]

Without trying to nitpick, this is pretty banal reasoning. Every ad in the
world could say (and does say!) this about their particular product, and
none of them are really wrong. I mean, what is the most important organ in
your body; heart? lungs? brain? answer: does it make any difference which
one you lose?

But if your power supply goes bad, it can destroy other parts of the
system in short order. This isn't always the case (sometimes they die
and don't hurt anything else), but it happens. When other parts of the
system die, they are less likely to destroy something else on their
way out.

Jeff

 

[William W. Plummer]

Use the old "pick up and inspect" theory. A good quality PSU will actually
even weigh a lot more than the cheap ones. This is due to much higher
quality components inside. The PSU is arguably the most important component
you put into your system. Everything is dependent on it to work correctly.
You should never skimp on the PSU. That $60.00 difference in price is
trivial compared to the overall price of building a system and is a very
good investment for a stable system.

I couldn't resist thinking about the relationship between power supply
weight, quality, and cost. Most likely a difference in weight is caused by
the size of the steel core in the main transformer. The cost of the labor
to (hand) stack the "E" and "I" laminations, more in larger transformers,
probably is reflected in the higher cost to the consumer. But can anyone
speculate on why a bigger transformer might yield a more reliable or "higher
quality" power supply?

The only thing I can suggest is that a larger core can use higher currents
in the windings without saturating the core. Thus a higher wattage load can
be accomodated, assuming the circuitry is able to handle the higher
currents. Maybe the manufacturer has a standard transformer design that
they use for all their designs regardless of the wattage.

Can anyone else speculate on why Ed's theory might be true?

 

[Gary Tait]

I couldn't resist thinking about the relationship between power supply
weight, quality, and cost. Most likely a difference in weight is caused by
the size of the steel core in the main transformer. The cost of the labor
to (hand) stack the "E" and "I" laminations, more in larger transformers,
probably is reflected in the higher cost to the consumer. But can anyone
speculate on why a bigger transformer might yield a more reliable or "higher
quality" power supply?

Modern PC PSUs don't use iron transformers that use I/E laminations,
they use ferrite based transformers.

The only thing I can suggest is that a larger core can use higher currents
in the windings without saturating the core. Thus a higher wattage load can
be accomodated, assuming the circuitry is able to handle the higher
currents. Maybe the manufacturer has a standard transformer design that
they use for all their designs regardless of the wattage.

Can anyone else speculate on why Ed's theory might be true?

More power conditionig componments in the supply.

 

[Ed Medlin]

correctly.

Without trying to nitpick, this is pretty banal reasoning. Every ad in the
world could say (and does say!) this about their particular product, and
none of them are really wrong. I mean, what is the most important organ in
your body; heart? lungs? brain? answer: does it make any difference which
one you lose?

hmmm........I DID say arguably.........

Ed

 

[Ed Medlin]

I couldn't resist thinking about the relationship between power supply
weight, quality, and cost. Most likely a difference in weight is caused by
the size of the steel core in the main transformer. The cost of the labor
to (hand) stack the "E" and "I" laminations, more in larger transformers,
probably is reflected in the higher cost to the consumer. But can anyone
speculate on why a bigger transformer might yield a more reliable or "higher
quality" power supply?

The only thing I can suggest is that a larger core can use higher currents
in the windings without saturating the core. Thus a higher wattage load can
be accomodated, assuming the circuitry is able to handle the higher
currents. Maybe the manufacturer has a standard transformer design that
they use for all their designs regardless of the wattage.

Can anyone else speculate on why Ed's theory might be true?

Just personal experience in my case. Yea, it is a generalization that's for
sure. It is very true when comparing a cheap, say 400w to a higher quality
( usually a bit more expensive ) 400w PSU. Probably due to the transformer
core, case and other things as well. It is just something I have noticed
over the years, nothing more.


Ed

 

[jeffc]

hmmm........I DID say arguably.........

Thus the "argument"

 

[jeffc]

I couldn't resist thinking about the relationship between power supply
weight, quality, and cost. Most likely a difference in weight is caused by
the size of the steel core in the main transformer. The cost of the labor
to (hand) stack the "E" and "I" laminations, more in larger transformers,
probably is reflected in the higher cost to the consumer. But can anyone
speculate on why a bigger transformer might yield a more reliable or "higher
quality" power supply?

The only thing I can suggest is that a larger core can use higher currents
in the windings without saturating the core. Thus a higher wattage load can
be accomodated, assuming the circuitry is able to handle the higher
currents. Maybe the manufacturer has a standard transformer design that
they use for all their designs regardless of the wattage.

Can anyone else speculate on why Ed's theory might be true?

I definitely believe it's true. There's the heat sink too, of course.
http://www.directron.com/psu.html

 

[Bill Turner]

Use the old "pick up and inspect" theory. A good quality PSU will actually
even weigh a lot more than the cheap ones. This is due to much higher
quality components inside.

_________________________________________________________

True in some cases, not true in others. If everyone had your philosophy
about weight vs quality, no manufacturer would ever be motivated to
reduce weight. Even worse, shoddy manufacturers would be motivated to
add extra weight to *increase* quality.

If you're seeking quality, measure quality. If you're seeking weight,
measure weight.

 

[John .]

I had first hand experience is the danger/risk of cheap power supply:

After a power outage on the city street was over, I started back up
the UPS and then the computer. I don't think the UPS was fully up to
speed or wasn't delivering full power. The result was my power supply
started smoking and died.

Doesn't sound like too bad of a problem, except that after replacing
the power supply, I discovered the video card was dead, the cdrom was
dead, and the on board audio no longer worked. Fortunately, the hard
drive is working and I "think" the rest of the motherboard (only 2
years old) is working.

The power supply should have protected my pc components, but it didn't
and it was a no-name brand.

I'm getting a new computer as a result.

The risk was stupid. I'm looking for Antec and other high quality
brand power supplies in the future!

 

[Matt]

Well, I've taken the advice and I'm looking for quality over price.

Any comments on this particular one:
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=17-103-912&catalog=58&depa=0

Thanks!
Liam

I was going to buy that one (SL400) and put it in a cheap case until I
noticed I could get an SL350 in a first-class Antec case (SLK3700AMB
from accupc.com) for $67.5 shipped. 350W is plenty for nearly everybody.

 

[Matt]

So, I'm in need of a new power supply, and I see they come in prices: very
cheap, and very expensive, for the same wattages.
What's the difference? What extra are you getting from the more expensive
one you're not getting from the cheap one?
For example: http://www.str8buy.com/powersupplyups.html
400 watt supplies come in $11 and $72 versions. What in the world justifies
that huge of a difference in price?

Also, side question, any recommendations on what's a good wattage for this
setup?
AMD Athalon XP 1600+ CPU
Radeon 9600XT 128 MB video
one 512MB PC2300(?) RAM
two 20GB HD's
CD ROM and a ZIP drive
two case fans
two mobo fans
PCI fan for the video card

Thanks!!
Liam

Think of the PSU as the foundation of your system. You want to have
confidence in it. Buy a popular medium-priced name-brand unit that has
good online customer reviews. A very-expensive unit would not be
consistent with the rest of your system. Absolutely you should not buy
a cheap no-name unit.

 

[Ruel Smith (Big Daddy)]

Well, I've taken the advice and I'm looking for quality over price.

Any comments on this particular one:
http://www.newegg.com/app

ViewProductDesc.asp?description=17-103-912&catalog=58&depa=0

Yep. It's the one that shipped with my Antec SX1040 case. It works
flawlessly. I have (2) HDD's in RAID 0, a third HDD for backup, DVD, CD-R
RW, Iomega Zip, Creative Soundblaster Audigy Platinum with drivebay
breakout box, floppy, GeForce 4 Ti4600 graphics card, 5 case fans including
3 with LED's in them, and I've overclocked my memory and CPU (which
requires extra power).

I have absolutely zero problems supporting all of that with that power
supply. I have no crashes, freezups, or anything else.

Like I've said earlier, few can doubt the quality of an Antec power supply.

Just curious, why are you buying a PSU separate from a case? Why not look
into an Antec case and get both? I highly recommend the Performace II and
Performace Plus cases. The Performace Plus series even comes with the
higher-end TruPower power supplies.



--
Big Daddy Ruel Smith

My SuSE Linux machine uptime:
8:15am up 45 days 17:01, 2 users, load average: 0.12, 0.33, 0.24

My Windows XP machine uptime:
Something less...

 

[LRW]

on Tue January 13 2004 11:54 am, LRW decided to enlighten us with:
Just curious, why are you buying a PSU separate from a case? Why not look
into an Antec case and get both? I highly recommend the Performace II and
Performace Plus cases. The Performace Plus series even comes with the
higher-end TruPower power supplies.

That's a valid question.
The reason being while for the last year I've suspected my current PS of
being poor, especially since I've upgraded to a Radeon 9600XT video card,
I've only recently discovered (through the help of people here,) how vitally
important it is to get a quality PSU.
My current one is a no-name that came with my case, and I suspect is one of
those $10 ones. Unfortunately, I only have about $40 to spend on a PSU, and
I want to get the best that $40 can buy which means not spending any extra
on something like a case...which while I'd love for a new, cool case, my
current one is just fine.

=)
Thanks for the reply!
Liam

 

[Ruel Smith (Big Daddy)]

That's a valid question.
The reason being while for the last year I've suspected my current PS of
being poor, especially since I've upgraded to a Radeon 9600XT video card,
I've only recently discovered (through the help of people here,) how
vitally important it is to get a quality PSU.
My current one is a no-name that came with my case, and I suspect is one
of those $10 ones. Unfortunately, I only have about $40 to spend on a PSU,
and I want to get the best that $40 can buy which means not spending any
extra on something like a case...which while I'd love for a new, cool
case, my current one is just fine.

Ahhhh.... I was under the impression you were building a new computer. It
makes sense to just upgrade the PSU only, in your case. I hate to think of
tearing out everything and putting it all in a new case. When I build a new
computer, I like to get a new case. I just make my old one a Linux box and
the new one gets the latest/greatest Windows variant. That may get reversed
in another 5 years, or 2 builds from now with the way Linux is going. It's
still got some rough edges, but 5 years is a lot of development time to
smooth it all out.



--
Big Daddy Ruel Smith

My SuSE Linux machine uptime:
4:18pm up 46 days 1:04, 2 users, load average: 0.00, 0.03, 0.00

My Windows XP machine uptime:
Something less...