power supply, cheap vs. expensive

L

LRW

So, I'm in need of a new power supply, and I see they come in prices: very
cheap, and very expensive, for the same wattages.
What's the difference? What extra are you getting from the more expensive
one you're not getting from the cheap one?
For example: http://www.str8buy.com/powersupplyups.html
400 watt supplies come in $11 and $72 versions. What in the world justifies
that huge of a difference in price?

Also, side question, any recommendations on what's a good wattage for this
setup?
AMD Athalon XP 1600+ CPU
Radeon 9600XT 128 MB video
one 512MB PC2300(?) RAM
two 20GB HD's
CD ROM and a ZIP drive
two case fans
two mobo fans
PCI fan for the video card

Thanks!!
Liam
 
P

philo

LRW said:
So, I'm in need of a new power supply, and I see they come in prices: very
cheap, and very expensive, for the same wattages.
What's the difference? What extra are you getting from the more expensive
one you're not getting from the cheap one?
For example: http://www.str8buy.com/powersupplyups.html
400 watt supplies come in $11 and $72 versions. What in the world justifies
that huge of a difference in price?

there really is a huge difference in component quality.

i once bought a cheap 400 watt supply for a sytem that really
only needed a 250 watt supply. it came with a "no doa" warranty...

the thing blew up on the 2nd day of use!

i learned my lesson
 
R

Ruel Smith (Big Daddy)

So, I'm in need of a new power supply, and I see they come in prices: very
cheap, and very expensive, for the same wattages.
What's the difference? What extra are you getting from the more expensive
one you're not getting from the cheap one?
For example: http://www.str8buy.com/powersupplyups.html
400 watt supplies come in $11 and $72 versions. What in the world
justifies that huge of a difference in price?

Also, side question, any recommendations on what's a good wattage for this
setup?
AMD Athalon XP 1600+ CPU
Radeon 9600XT 128 MB video
one 512MB PC2300(?) RAM
two 20GB HD's
CD ROM and a ZIP drive
two case fans
two mobo fans
PCI fan for the video card

Yeah, at least 300 watts and get an Antec. What you get extra for a quality
PSU is that it will actually put out the watts it claims. Even some more
expensive PSU's don't, so your mileage varies on the brand. Never, ever buy
a cheap PSU. It's the number one source of problems with stability.

Read this and see for yourself:
http://www.tomshardware.com/howto/20030609/index.html



--
Big Daddy Ruel Smith

My SuSE Linux machine uptime:
6:04pm up 36 days 2:49, 2 users, load average: 0.42, 0.23, 0.18

My Windows XP machine uptime:
Something less...
 
D

DaveW

The $11 version will NOT put out anything near 400 Watts, and will tend to
have a short life. You get what you pay for, and I never go cheap on the
power supply because if it shorts out due to cheap components it can burn
out many of your other computer parts. Now THAT's expensive.
 
B

Bob Davis

So, I'm in need of a new power supply, and I see they come in prices: very
cheap, and very expensive, for the same wattages.
What's the difference? What extra are you getting from the more expensive
one you're not getting from the cheap one?
For example: http://www.str8buy.com/powersupplyups.html
400 watt supplies come in $11 and $72 versions. What in the world justifies
that huge of a difference in price?


You're getting good advice here. Don't be penny wise and pound foolish.
You get what you pay for, and skimping on the power supply is foolish. You
can pick up an Antec True330 (330w) PSU for about $50, a 480w for $85, and
that's money well spent. I'd pick one >400w.
 
L

LRW

Bob Davis said:
You're getting good advice here. Don't be penny wise and pound foolish.
You get what you pay for, and skimping on the power supply is foolish. You
can pick up an Antec True330 (330w) PSU for about $50, a 480w for $85, and
that's money well spent. I'd pick one >400w.

Wow, pretty unanimous!
I'm convinced. =)
I wonder...ever since I got my current PC (home-built, but the powersupply
came with the case,) I've been having occasional problems that FELT like
something wasn't getting enough power. And the voltage readings in the BIOS
have always been really screwy...so much so that I thought they simply
weren't calibrated properly or something. I don't know enough about
electrical engineering to get a volt-meter and check things out myself.
But, it's obviously a cheapy PS. Between the advice I've gotten here, and
what I just read about AMD recommending your power supply have a intake fan
on its bottom (which mine does not,) I'm getting a new power supply!!
Thanks, all!
Liam
 
B

Bob

Wow, pretty unanimous!
I'm convinced. =)
I wonder...ever since I got my current PC (home-built, but the powersupply
came with the case,) I've been having occasional problems that FELT like
something wasn't getting enough power. And the voltage readings in the BIOS
have always been really screwy...so much so that I thought they simply
weren't calibrated properly or something. I don't know enough about
electrical engineering to get a volt-meter and check things out myself.
But, it's obviously a cheapy PS. Between the advice I've gotten here, and
what I just read about AMD recommending your power supply have a intake fan
on its bottom (which mine does not,) I'm getting a new power supply!!
Thanks, all!
Liam

Yeah, the same old stuff. My wife bought a Micron computer several years
ago with a 250 W power supply. I doubt very much that Micron scoured the
world looking for the most expensive PS. Since, she has loaded her
computer with every imagineable device. She is a computer artist. Her PC
is still running just fine. I replaced my Antec 450 W with a seven year
old Sparkle 300 W PS because the Antec could not handle my limited computer
needs. It is not the watts. It is the quality. After replacing two
Antecs, I will stick with a Sparkle of 300 watts.
 
S

S.Heenan

LRW said:
Wow, pretty unanimous!
I'm convinced. =)
I wonder...ever since I got my current PC (home-built, but the
powersupply came with the case,) I've been having occasional problems
that FELT like something wasn't getting enough power. And the voltage
readings in the BIOS have always been really screwy...so much so that
I thought they simply weren't calibrated properly or something. I
don't know enough about electrical engineering to get a volt-meter
and check things out myself. But, it's obviously a cheapy PS. Between
the advice I've gotten here, and what I just read about AMD
recommending your power supply have a intake fan on its bottom (which
mine does not,) I'm getting a new power supply!!


FYI: http://www.resellerratings.com/seller1923.html
 
V

VIC

So, I'm in need of a new power supply, and I see they come in prices: very
cheap, and very expensive, for the same wattages.
What's the difference? What extra are you getting from the more expensive
one you're not getting from the cheap one?
For example: http://www.str8buy.com/powersupplyups.html
400 watt supplies come in $11 and $72 versions. What in the world justifies
that huge of a difference in price?

Also, side question, any recommendations on what's a good wattage for this
setup?
AMD Athalon XP 1600+ CPU
Radeon 9600XT 128 MB video
one 512MB PC2300(?) RAM
two 20GB HD's
CD ROM and a ZIP drive
two case fans
two mobo fans
PCI fan for the video card

Thanks!!
Liam
Good advice here. I would add that quality comes first and make sure
the +12 Volt line has more than 15 amps for any future "toys" added,
and it will perhaps handle future upgrades better.
 
G

Guest

LRW said:
I don't know enough about electrical engineering to get a
volt-meter and check things out myself.

You don't need to. Just get a cheap digital volt-ohm meter, and read
the instructions, which are quite clear with Fluke, Sears, and Radio
Shack meters.
Stay away from high voltage, and don't set the meter to read amps (amp
ranges essentially short out what you're trying to measure). A
volt-ohm meter can test not only computers but also batteries and
automobiles.

Cheap power supplies can't meet their advertised power or current
ratings,
don't regulate voltages very well, don't shut off before being damaged
when overloaded, or fail prematurely because of low quality components
(undersized or bad makes). Some bad power supplies will put out a
brief burst of damaging high voltage in case of certain failures, and
this can't be prevented by the overvoltage shut-down circuitry. It's
not necessary to pay a lot for a first-rate power supply, such as a
Fortron-Source (many brands, incl. Sparkle, Aopen, Hi-Q, Powerman),
available for as little as $20-40.
 
G

gothika

On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 21:56:10 GMT, "LRW" <[email protected]>
wrote:
Don't go for the cheapest priced supply, it's far too critical inre
computer performance.
I have a 1.2 gig athalon setup that constantly crashed or locked until
I replaced the "factory" power supply with a 500 watt unit with deep
power reserves. No problems since.
 
C

Christopher

On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 21:56:10 GMT, "LRW" <[email protected]>
wrote:

"Quality is remembered long after price has been forgotten"
Sir Henry Royce

And quality has never come cheap. You get what you pay for.
 
J

jeffc

LRW said:
So, I'm in need of a new power supply, and I see they come in prices: very
cheap, and very expensive, for the same wattages.
What's the difference?

Believe it or not, the wattage! Manufacturers play some very funny numbers,
and unless you're willing to learn the science involved, you'll have to
accept the reviews that say one is better than another.

What extra are you getting from the more expensive
one you're not getting from the cheap one?
For example: http://www.str8buy.com/powersupplyups.html
400 watt supplies come in $11 and $72 versions. What in the world justifies
that huge of a difference in price?

I would never buy a $11 400 watt power supply. Without even looking, the
more expensive puts out more power more reliably, and probably runs cooler
and quieter. If you were to actually compare apples to apples, the $11 one
might be a 300w supply, and the $72 one might be a 425+ supply.
Also, side question, any recommendations on what's a good wattage for this
setup?
AMD Athalon XP 1600+ CPU
Radeon 9600XT 128 MB video
one 512MB PC2300(?) RAM
two 20GB HD's
CD ROM and a ZIP drive
two case fans
two mobo fans
PCI fan for the video card

You can look up on the internet wattage requirement calculators. But
basically, get a good 400w supply and you'll be all set. (The Antec supply
from your link is a quality supply.) A 350w supply would also be fine.
 
S

Socks

LRW said:
So, I'm in need of a new power supply, and I see they come in prices:
very cheap, and very expensive, for the same wattages.

strictly fwiw, i have a duron 900mhz that i tried running with an old 250w
supply until it died. i went to buy a cheap (iirc $15) 300w supply to
replace it, and they gave me a "400w" for the same price because it was all
they had. not that i believed the "400w" claim, but i thought it might
really be a 300w and enough for me.

it's worked out fine (maybe 2yrs now), but it is *loud*. it fairly howls.
now, that might mean good cooling, but my lesson learned is that next time
i'd go for a premium supply that could supply the power and be quiet at the
same time.
 
L

LRW

Bob Davis said:
You're getting good advice here. Don't be penny wise and pound foolish.
You get what you pay for, and skimping on the power supply is foolish. You
can pick up an Antec True330 (330w) PSU for about $50, a 480w for $85, and
that's money well spent. I'd pick one >400w.

I thought the rule of thumb was any name that ends with "tec" is bad
quality? =)

Joking aside, I appreciate all the feedback, and I'm certainly convinced to
spend a little extra on a good supply!
 
K

Ken Hall

I appreciate all the feedback, and I'm certainly convinced to
spend a little extra on a good supply!

I'm certainly no expert on this, but from what I've read, another
feature of better power supplies is they supply cleaner power to the
motherboard. That is, less noise and ripple. I think all power
supplies have noise and ripple but some do a better job of keeping
them to a minimum. Ripple is a constant cyclical variation in the
voltage. Noise is spurious random fluctuations and spikes.

Excess noise and ripple can corrupt memory in various parts of the
system (CPU, RAM, video, etc.) which can result in hangs/lockups you
probably attribute to software.

Ken
 
J

jeffc

LRW said:
Well, I've taken the advice and I'm looking for quality over price.

Any comments on this particular one:
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=17-103-912&catalog
=58&depa=0

Not familiar with that particular model - one question - the efficiency
isn't terribly high, which mean it will be warm. To cool it, I notice there
are 2 fans instead of the usual 1, and I don't see rpms or decibels listed.
Basically, I'm wondering if it will be a bit loud.
 

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