Poor quoting

[will_s]

This makes newsgroups hard to read especially with lots of replies.
Sometimes the ">" indentation is used but sometimes they dont appear.


Plain Text setting - I have this setting ticked - Indent the original Text
with ">" when replying or forwarding.

Below is a post from someone that is really pissed off by then :

<start quote>
I've been forced to read/post using google groups and everyone is
blaming google for the poor post quoting going on. I'm not saying
google groups is perfect, or even decent, but after looking at the the
incorrectly formatted posts again, I am concluding that there are two
parties to blame.

It seems that any microsoft news reader, Outlook Express, Windows Mail
Client, does not quote properly when replying to posts made using
google groups. Some people seem to quote my (and others) posts fine,
and when I check their headers, they're invariably using either google
groups themselves or Mozilla Thunderbird, or some other news reader,
anything but a Microsoft product.

So google groups obviously makes posts in some strange format that
screws up Outlook Express (and whatever other MS products are around)
but that other news readers handle fine. So to the OE users out there,
if you want to be able to quote posts properly, upgrade to Thunderbird
(I use it at home, it's simple and efficient), or one of the more
fully featured news readers.

Then again, maybe I'm wrong on this whole thing, so reply to this post
to test it out.

<end quote>

any suggestions ?

 

[Synapse Syndrome]

BTW, MS has dropped Outlook Express. You should keep more up to date.

If you checked the headers, you'd see that he was actually using Windows
Mail, which is not much more than a renamed OE7.

In fact, Microsoft seems to have dropped Windows Mail, as the team that made
it, after introducing many new bugs that OE6 never had, was moved on to make
Windows Live Mail.

ss.

 

[will_s]

There is no International Standard for quoting. How to quote and whether
to quote at all is fully the responsibility of the poster. Just 'cuz it's
not automatic doesn't relieve you of the responsibility of generating a
meaningful and properly quoted message. "Properly quoted" for your own
specific purpose to get your point across. Not necessarily auto-quoted by
some (un)intelligent algorithm.


Oh geeze... I can't believe you laid out your agenda so blatantly.
Whatever.


Okay.

BTW, MS has dropped Outlook Express. You should keep more up to date.

maybe you should read the post and try some comprehension

 

[propman]

In fact, Microsoft seems to have dropped Windows Mail, as the team that made
it, after introducing many new bugs that OE6 never had, was moved on to make
Windows Live Mail.

..........to make even more bugs? <grin>


Sorry couldn't resist........

 

[LesleyO]

maybe you should read the post and try some comprehension

There's no way I'm going to start using another newsgroup reader -- I'm
using Windows Mail, which is the native reader for Vista Home Premium, and
shall continue to do so. If you don't like how it lines up the carets (the
name for the signs you see at the beginning of each line), I'm sorry to hear
that, but that's tough. I don't know whether Outlook Express is available on
the other versions of Vista, but it isn't on this one. As for Google Groups,
well, I'm afraid that isn't my problem; sorry.

LesleyO

 

[Synapse Syndrome]

Yep. MS has made bugs out of propman, synapse syndrome and will_s. Well,
okay, they were probably already bugs even before MS. LOL...

-Frank

What is this nonsense? Have you been taking lessons from your namesake?

ss.

 

[the wharf rat]

If you don't like how it lines up the carets (the
name for the signs you see at the beginning of each line),

They're not carets. They're greater-than's. This ^ is a caret.

 

[will_s]

There's no way I'm going to start using another newsgroup reader -- I'm
using Windows Mail, which is the native reader for Vista Home Premium, and
shall continue to do so. If you don't like how it lines up the carets (the
name for the signs you see at the beginning of each line), I'm sorry to
hear that, but that's tough. I don't know whether Outlook Express is
available on the other versions of Vista, but it isn't on this one. As for
Google Groups, well, I'm afraid that isn't my problem; sorry.

LesleyO

I wish some people in this group would grow up. There is a problem with the
way newsgroups messages are been displayed . I have no idea of why this is
but someone in another group is trying to figure it out so I quoted his
post. I am not here to suggest Thunderbird or any other reader. I just want
to know if any of the MSVP's know what is causing this and any suggestions
for fixing this.

Now the person who I quoted has no beef against Microsoft and has no hidden
agenda. What is happening is without the ">" it is making some newsgroup
threads unreadable

So if someone has a solution or a reason then is would be appreciated

 

[LesleyO]

They're not carets. They're greater-than's. This ^ is a caret.

Hi, Wharf Rat -- I know that > is mathematically 'greater than' and < is
mathematically 'less than' but thought they were also called carets. Thanks
for the correction! Learn something every day.

LesleyO

 

[LesleyO]

I wish some people in this group would grow up. There is a problem with
the way newsgroups messages are been displayed . I have no idea of why
this is but someone in another group is trying to figure it out so I
quoted his post. I am not here to suggest Thunderbird or any other reader.
I just want to know if any of the MSVP's know what is causing this and any
suggestions for fixing this.

Now the person who I quoted has no beef against Microsoft and has no
hidden agenda. What is happening is without the ">" it is making some
newsgroup threads unreadable

So if someone has a solution or a reason then is would be appreciated

Perhaps if you had made your *introduction* of the original post just a bit
more clear, as to what you were trying to do and why, the misunderstandings
wouldn't have arisen in the first place. Talk about "poor quoting"!

As for growing up, I'm almost 66, so if I haven't done it by now, I guess
it's not going to happen -- and maybe that's a good thing.

LesleyO

 

[will_s]

Perhaps if you had made your *introduction* of the original post just a
bit more clear, as to what you were trying to do and why, the
misunderstandings wouldn't have arisen in the first place. Talk about
"poor quoting"!

I thought it was quite clear. It showed the problem and that I had indeed
ticked the right box.

As for growing up, I'm almost 66, so if I haven't done it by now, I guess
it's not going to happen -- and maybe that's a good thing.

That growing up was for so many ( along the likes of Frankster )in this
group. It appears to have become a case of Microsoft lovers v Microsoft
haters and you are automatically put in one of these categories.
With all the replies not one has been about fixing the problem...most were
just personal attacks

Sad, very sad

 

[the wharf rat]

Perhaps the reason for so many negative replies is people like myself that
have been using these newsgroups since before there even was a "www" are
[...]There is no "standard" for quoting.

Ad verecundiam, eh? I'll see your unverifiable authority and
raise you one of my own.

"Since before the web", huh? *I've* been using Usenet since
before TCP. (Well, since before news moved via TCP at any rate.) The
standard and generally accepted way to post a followup article on Usenet
is to include as few lines of existing text as necessary and to add your
reply AFTER that included text. This is not mere convention: top posting
requires you to scroll to the bottom, establish context, then return to the
top, and encourages the useless inclusion of complete previous messages.

Many of us grew up with BBSs

BBS's? Feh. Try BITNET.

 

[LesleyO]

I thought it was quite clear. It showed the problem and that I had indeed
ticked the right box.

That growing up was for so many ( along the likes of Frankster )in this
group. It appears to have become a case of Microsoft lovers v Microsoft
haters and you are automatically put in one of these categories.
With all the replies not one has been about fixing the problem...most were
just personal attacks

Sad, very sad

Well -- I did work on the ARPANET contract for the Alberta Research Council,
so I guess that puts Frank and me in the same category in some way. (Hey,
Frank, I'm LesleyO -- female -- not LarryO!) I remember quite well my first
modem; I think it was all of 1200 baud and I could actually 'talk' computer
problems with my C64 pals.... That was circa '83/84.

Anyone who doesn't know what ARPANET is, just Wiki it.

And I have finally been browbeaten by posters in various forums of the
non-HTML type into bottom-posting despite the fact that MS's newsgroup
reader is automatically a top-poster. So I understand very well the
touchiness he describes in above.

Sorry, will_s. Bow; scrape. Mea culpa in this case, definitely. 8(
Obviously, Windows Mail does its thing just fine, anyway.

LesleyO

 

[propman]

Didn't grow up with them but operated my own for about 6 years back in
the '90's. Maximus, Fidonet and a bunch of other smaller nets whose
name escape me now...too many years have past but fond memories of those
days.

BBS's? Feh. Try BITNET.

Both references taken from Wikipedia:

BITNET

BITNET was a cooperative U.S. university network founded by IBM in 1979
under the aegis of Ira Fuchs at the City University of New York (CUNY)
and Greydon Freeman at Yale University. The first network link was
between CUNY and Yale.


BBS

History

A notable precursor to the public bulletin board system was Community
Memory, started in 1972 in Berkeley, California, using hardwired
terminals located in neighborhoods.

The first public bulletin board system was developed by Ward
Christensen. According to an early interview, while he was snowed in
during the Great Blizzard of 1978 in Chicago, Christensen began
preliminary work on the Computerized Bulletin Board System, or CBBS.
CBBS went online on February 16, 1978 in Chicago, Illinois. [1]

 

[propman]

Well -- I did work on the ARPANET contract for the Alberta Research
Council, so I guess that puts Frank and me in the same category in some
way. (Hey, Frank, I'm LesleyO -- female -- not LarryO!) I remember quite
well my first modem; I think it was all of 1200 baud and I could
actually 'talk' computer problems with my C64 pals.... That was circa
'83/84.

I re me m ber th ose days to o <grin>

 

[the wharf rat]

Since the invention of the threaded newsreader it is not even
sensible, let alone necessary.

Threaded news articles have nothing to do with top or bottom posting.
The existence of threading argues for minimal included text. A threaded
but top posted article STILL requires the reader to scroll to the bottom,
read UP, and then respond.

Maybe what you need is a newsreader that opens the article at the
bottom and automaticaly scrolls backwards. We could call it RPNFA.

Reverse Polish News for Former AOLers.

 

[the wharf rat]

The moral of this story? NEVER POST HTML TO THE USENET.

<font size=6 color=fuschia> I AGREE!!! </font>

 

[will_s]

Perhaps the reason for so many negative replies is people like myself that
have been using these newsgroups since before there even was a "www" are
sick and tired of hearing others complain about quoting etiquette. We're
also sick of "Windows Mail Sucks" and "Outlook Express Sucks" and "Bill
Gates Sucks" and "Use Firefox" and "Use Mozilla" and "Use Opera" and "Use
Linux", ad nausea. Whatever....

Well ignore the messages. Your replies only serve to give these people more
ammunition to fire at you and the newsgroup suffers . You are just as much
to blame as these people who you despise. If you cant answer the problem or
suggest a solution then kindly piss off.

 

[will_s]

i've tried to explain this, but apparently, you are just intent on
blaming Microsoft for all your ills, and it did not enter your
consciousness (or you failed to read my post about this matter.)

Who is blaming MS ? You have a major problem. The post I quoted suggested
that it was Google groups causing the problems.

The difference is in the formatting of the users post. If it is
formatted as Text, the ">" (or ":", or "|") before each quoted line
will be there. If their post is formatted as HTML, they will NOT BE
THERE.

The moral of this story? NEVER POST HTML TO THE USENET.

and HTML is not the problem in this case.

I actually went to the vista.mail newsgroup and received an answer form a
MSVP . Now he must be really an anti-ms person as he suggested there was a
problem with MS Mail and suggested I try MS Live Mail which I am using to
type this.

 

[Ramone]

Type and send. That's all anyone needs to know.