Photo Printers

E

Erehwon

Looking for a printer to be used about 75% of the time for photos and the
remainder for office applications and web pages. It seems that the reviews
I've found on line and in Consumer Reports don't apply to the models I've
seen in the stores. For print quality, speed, and cost, is there really a
significant difference between Canon, Epson, & HP or are they all in the
same ball park such that the choice is more a matter of the features (red
eye reduction, dual paper trays, preview screen, etc.)?
 
C

Calab

Erehwon said:
Looking for a printer to be used about 75% of the time for photos and the
remainder for office applications and web pages. It seems that the
reviews I've found on line and in Consumer Reports don't apply to the
models I've seen in the stores. For print quality, speed, and cost, is
there really a significant difference between Canon, Epson, & HP or are
they all in the same ball park such that the choice is more a matter of
the features (red eye reduction, dual paper trays, preview screen, etc.)?

My personal favorite are Epson. They don't rape you as bad as the other
manufacturers when it comes time to replace your ink. My last Epson (Stylus
Photo) lasted 6+ years and my current one (R200) is going strong.

My second choice would be Canon.

Avoid Lexmark at all costs!!!
 
R

Rookie

Calab said:
My personal favorite are Epson. They don't rape you as bad as the
other manufacturers when it comes time to replace your ink. My last
Epson (Stylus Photo) lasted 6+ years and my current one (R200) is
going strong.

My second choice would be Canon.

Avoid Lexmark at all costs!!!

Why? I have found them to be rugged, fast and durable, and inks are easily
replaced and refilled.
 
C

Calab

Avoid Lexmark at all costs!!!
Why? I have found them to be rugged, fast and durable, and inks are easily
replaced and refilled.

You KNOW that something is wrong when new ink costs more than the printer...
and I've never seen a Lexmark that could touch anything when you take the
into consideration the printer cost + the cost of 1 ink replacement.

The only way to tell the manufacturers to piss off is to avoid their crap.

BTW, I should also say that Epson is usually pretty good when it comes to
support as well. They usually have drivers for older printers when a new OS
comes out. This is the reason HP is off my list. Even when an HP printer is
still a current product and a new OS comes out, HP tells the customer to
"suck it up."
 
S

sandy58

Looking for a printer to be used about 75% of the time for photos and the
remainder for office applications and web pages. It seems that the reviews
I've found on line and in Consumer Reports don't apply to the models I've
seen in the stores. For print quality, speed, and cost, is there really a
significant difference between Canon, Epson, & HP or are they all in the
same ball park such that the choice is more a matter of the features (red
eye reduction, dual paper trays, preview screen, etc.)?

HP PhotoSmart but the carts are keyed (you can't use cheapo's) & cost
an arm and a leg, and as Calab says, you can't keep up with them. But
excellent for photos.
 
P

Paul

Erehwon said:
Looking for a printer to be used about 75% of the time for photos and the
remainder for office applications and web pages. It seems that the reviews
I've found on line and in Consumer Reports don't apply to the models I've
seen in the stores. For print quality, speed, and cost, is there really a
significant difference between Canon, Epson, & HP or are they all in the
same ball park such that the choice is more a matter of the features (red
eye reduction, dual paper trays, preview screen, etc.)?

There are differences in design, that affect the economy of the different
design approaches. Start with an article like this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inkjet

"The frequent cleaning conducted by printers can consume quite a bit of ink
and has a great impact on cost per page determinations."

This article, linked on the Wiki page, is also an amusing read:

http://www.trustedreviews.com/printers/review/2007/04/21/The-Inkjet-Investigation/p2

If the cartridges are "all-in-one", you could end up replacing the
cart, before a lot of the ink is used. The heavily used color would
determine life for the cart. It is better to get something where there
are individual cartridges, so that more of the ink actually gets used.

HTH,
Paul
 
J

Joel

Erehwon said:
Looking for a printer to be used about 75% of the time for photos and the
remainder for office applications and web pages. It seems that the reviews
I've found on line and in Consumer Reports don't apply to the models I've
seen in the stores. For print quality, speed, and cost, is there really a
significant difference between Canon, Epson, & HP or are they all in the
same ball park such that the choice is more a matter of the features (red
eye reduction, dual paper trays, preview screen, etc.)?

Me? the best photo printer is something like a HUGE Fuji Frontier Printer,
Kodak Printer, LightJet etc.. you see most photolabs use.

Before digital become more popular, and more and more local stores
offering photo printing at cheaper price. Or when it cost around $10-20 for
8x10" print, $2-3 for 4x6" print etc. I used to print my own using Epson
Photo printer.

But not the price is much cheaper than inkjet, I print my photo using much
more expensive professional printer like the ones I mention above <bg>, and
use inkjet for other thing.
 
P

philo

Erehwon said:
Looking for a printer to be used about 75% of the time for photos and the
remainder for office applications and web pages. It seems that the reviews
I've found on line and in Consumer Reports don't apply to the models I've
seen in the stores. For print quality, speed, and cost, is there really a
significant difference between Canon, Epson, & HP or are they all in the
same ball park such that the choice is more a matter of the features (red
eye reduction, dual paper trays, preview screen, etc.)?

By all means go with Epson.

Epson is the first choice for photography professionals...
they have a color profile you can download...
and get your colors right on your very first try
 
R

Rookie

Calab said:
You KNOW that something is wrong when new ink costs more than the
printer... and I've never seen a Lexmark that could touch anything
when you take the into consideration the printer cost + the cost of 1
ink replacement.

The only way to tell the manufacturers to piss off is to avoid their
crap.

BTW, I should also say that Epson is usually pretty good when it comes
to support as well. They usually have drivers for older printers when
a new OS comes out. This is the reason HP is off my list. Even when an
HP printer is still a current product and a new OS comes out, HP tells
the customer to "suck it up."

It is very easy to refill lexmark cartridges yourself at minimal cost.
 
R

Rookie

Don't Lexmark inkjet carts now have a microchip preventing
low(est) cost refilling?

I don't have any of their latest (last year) models, but no, AFAIK.

Actually, I have one I bought last year, and one I have about 6 years and
still works perfectly well.
 
T

TripleTrouple

Looking for aprinterto be used about 75% of the time for photos and the
remainder for office applications and web pages.  It seems that the reviews
I've found on line and in Consumer Reports don't apply to the models I've
seen in the stores.  For print quality, speed, and cost, is there reallya
significant difference between Canon, Epson, & HP or are they all in the
same ball park such that the choice is more a matter of the features (red
eye reduction, dual paper trays, preview screen, etc.)?

Epson seems to be the brand of choice nearly everywhere I looked. As
for choising which one is right for you, check out this fun,
interactive website Epson has set up.... (you'll have to copy and
paste this in your web address bar since I couldn't get it to copy as
an active link)

http://www.epsonality.com/
 
R

Rookie

I don't know that all of them do have a microchip but had a
vague recollection that some did, and this ink cartridge
seller seems to think (some) do.

http://www.cartridgesave.co.uk/ink-cartridges/ink-cartridges-manufactur
ed-by-lexmark.html

I wasn't aware of that, and I am surprised, as I thought it was epson who
had this policy.

However, I believe european legislation doesn't allow manufacturers to
force the use of original supplies (in order to protect the environment).
 
K

kony

I wasn't aware of that, and I am surprised, as I thought it was epson who
had this policy.

However, I believe european legislation doesn't allow manufacturers to
force the use of original supplies (in order to protect the environment).

I know Lexmark has sued over some companies using their tech
to duplicate the chips. Lexmark went a step further than
some who only use a prom for a serial number in the carts,
they put a program in there so DMCA would protect them more.

I don't have a Lexmark inkjet, but do have one of their
higher end business class color lasers and they are
definitely microchipped, but since toner cartridges for that
are a business expense it's not as though I'd try to refill
them like I do my ancient Lexmark B&W laser that is so cheap
to operate I have already repaired it twice over many years
of use and hope it never dies.
 
R

Rookie

I know Lexmark has sued over some companies using their tech
to duplicate the chips. Lexmark went a step further than
some who only use a prom for a serial number in the carts,
they put a program in there so DMCA would protect them more.

I don't have a Lexmark inkjet, but do have one of their
higher end business class color lasers and they are
definitely microchipped, but since toner cartridges for that
are a business expense it's not as though I'd try to refill
them like I do my ancient Lexmark B&W laser that is so cheap
to operate I have already repaired it twice over many years
of use and hope it never dies.

If I understood right, you mean that you have to use an original cartridge
and not a "compatible" one? In this case, I guess there is no problem
refilling the original cartridge.

BTW, I saw someone manage to destroy a lexmark inkjet by using refilled and
"compatible" cartridges. When he called me, I asked to see the cartridge he
used, and was shocked at how could someone trust such a cartridge.
 
K

kony

If I understood right, you mean that you have to use an original cartridge
and not a "compatible" one? In this case, I guess there is no problem
refilling the original cartridge.

No, let me elaborate.

In my business class Lexmark (C772N) laser, each toner
cartridge has a microchip, seemingly an EPROM, that holds a
unique serial # for the cartridge and an entirely
unnecessary toner loading program code. The toner loading
is something that should have stayed in the printer firmware
but was deliberately moved to the toner cartridge to try to
build up their rights to exclude competition.

The printer actively monitors # of pages and % printed per
each cartridge as well as a "best guess" about remaining
toner capacity down to a certain % (IIRC, it is 20%) then it
uses optical sensing through a clear portion of the toner
hopper to determine lower toner levels.

It will not allow refilling the original cartridge because
it remembers that cartridge serial #. When it decides it is
impossible for that cartridge to have enough toner left to
print, you have to replace it.

The sad part is, this printer has a full mainboard in back,
a quite elaborate affair that can have separate memory and
hard drive added to it. It runs linux and thus, should have
the firmware available by GPL standards, but they choose not
to release the source code. They want to straddle both
sides of the fence, claiming proprietary rights but not
reveling what they took from linux to make it happen.

On the other hand, my ancient Lexmark B&W has no chipping of
the toner cart at all. It has no webserver, no nothing
except a basic print engine and an optical sensor to warn of
very low toner. It does have an LCD and programmable
settings but no kind of prevention of refilling the
cartridges, and I have done so many times over the years as
this was back when the drum was built of a size and quality
that it would last over 30K pages.

Warning - don't try to clean one with acetone. Sometimes I
use a toner transfer method to make circuit board etching
patterns, and use acetone to clean off the toner mask later.
Since I knew acetone does a great job of cleaning off toner
I once tried to clean off a drum that had worn away too far
- but I wasn't sure of that "yet" and figured I might as
well try to clean it thoroughly in case it was reusable...
no loss really, I had 3 spare cartridges with good drums but
I really do want this printer to last forever as it can take
just about any random copy machine toner, it's fuser gets
hotter than most do today.

Anyway, acetone strips the entire surface off the drum,
leaving only a bare metal (aluminum?) surface. Completely
destroyed it, but at least it wasn't really a loss since it
was a last ditch effort, it was headed for the trash anyway
and was more of an experimental attempt than anything.

BTW, I saw someone manage to destroy a lexmark inkjet by using refilled and
"compatible" cartridges. When he called me, I asked to see the cartridge he
used, and was shocked at how could someone trust such a cartridge.

Destroyed the printer itself? IMO, that is pretty rare,
usually the printouts just look like crap if it's inferior.

Inkjets do seem more picky though, generally with lasers I
find one main issue, that many newer laser fusers don't get
as hot and toner for older or larger corporate or industrial
machines may not melt much if at all. There's also the
issue of particle size but I tend to use a B&W laser for
text where that seldom matters. My ancient Lexmark only
does 300DPI (actually does 600DPI but I never need to use
that, it needs raw data for that which takes so much longer)
and it's still sharp as a tack at text @ 300DPI.

I didn't even mention the other *luxury* of those old
Lexmarks, that they took standard SIMMs. Lexmark wanted a
few hundred dollars for a small (was about 4-12MB, IIRC)
memory upgrade, but since the memory was standard I just
pulled a couple 16MB Simms out of an old motherboard
instead. Today that doesn't matter so much, I don't recall
how much the new Lexmark has but IIRC about 128 or 256MB,
and adding the hard drive it would have a few GB of virtual
memory.
 
R

Rookie

Destroyed the printer itself? IMO, that is pretty rare,
usually the printouts just look like crap if it's inferior.

The printer would "work" but no ink would come on the paper.
 
P

Plato

Erehwon said:
Looking for a printer to be used about 75% of the time for photos and the
remainder for office applications and web pages. It seems that the reviews

HP Photosmart C3180
 

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