Pentium 4, Pentium D, or Athelon barebones?

[snydley]

Hi Guys,
I guess I should have elaborated more on this computer I'm gonna put
together. It's not for me. I'm having a good friend install laminated wood
floors in my house,(600 sq. ft. worth). He's thowing in the labor free if I
build him a computer. I'm figuring on spending $500. to $600. total. There's
a 3.2Ghz Pentium D system on sale at Tiger Direct for $299. that looks like
a good deal. I'd just have to add a DVD writer, an LCD monitor, and keyboard
and mouse and have a system for him. Someone mentioned building an AMD
Athelon system, but I know nothing about the reliability of AMD or how they
compare to Intel, so I haven't considered them.
I'm reluctant to go with AMD just because I've never used one before.
I've got to order it in a couple of days, so what do you think? AMD or
Intel? P4 or PD? Are there any other good deals out there somewhere?
Thanks,
Snyder

 

[kony]

Hi Guys,
I guess I should have elaborated more on this computer I'm gonna put
together. It's not for me. I'm having a good friend install laminated wood
floors in my house,(600 sq. ft. worth). He's thowing in the labor free if I
build him a computer. I'm figuring on spending $500. to $600. total. There's
a 3.2Ghz Pentium D system on sale at Tiger Direct for $299. that looks like
a good deal. I'd just have to add a DVD writer, an LCD monitor, and keyboard
and mouse and have a system for him. Someone mentioned building an AMD
Athelon system, but I know nothing about the reliability of AMD or how they
compare to Intel, so I haven't considered them.

There is no reliability factor between AMD and Intel, but
there is a reliability factor depending on whether you buy
decent parts like motherboard, power supply, fans, or junk
like many of the Tiger Direct barebones kits. I'm not
suggesting it is impossible to get decent parts from Tiger
Direct, but putting together packages of junk parts is how
they create many of their deals at low prices.

I'm reluctant to go with AMD just because I've never used one before.
I've got to order it in a couple of days, so what do you think? AMD or
Intel? P4 or PD? Are there any other good deals out there somewhere?
Thanks,
Snyder

You are acting as though this is some special situation when
it isn't really, everybody who builds a computer goes
through the same process of picking parts, except you are
trying for two opposing things: Reliability vs Low Cost
You can of course have both, if you shop for sales and other
discounts on parts, or can accept a lower price due to aging
tech like the Pentium D you are considering. Whether it can
be had for $299, you'll have to do the math and scrutinize
what you're getting, particularly the brand of motherboard
and PSU. Avoid generic came-with-case PSU even if they
claim similar or higher wattage.

Consider that this $299 plus DVD Writer, LCD monitor,
keyboard, speakers, and shipping for it all may not be much
if any cheaper than a sale on an OEM system like Dell or
HP... plus you don't mention if the TD system comes with an
operating system or not while the OEM system would.

For example,
http://www.dell.com/content/products/features.aspx/hot_offers_dt?c=us&cs=04&l=en&s=bsd

Plus, if you go OEM you aren't on the hook for repair or
support of someone's remotely located system. It's less fun
though, to order one prebuilt but I think it would be the
best way to get your two goals of reliability and low cost.
Of course there is still the necessary research of the
systems like whether they have enough memory (which can be
cheaper to buy separately from a 3rd party in many cases) or
enough expansion slots, for example if one had integrated
video but the friend later wanted to add a video card to do
some gaming.

 

[Paul]

Hi Guys,
I guess I should have elaborated more on this computer I'm gonna put
together. It's not for me. I'm having a good friend install laminated wood
floors in my house,(600 sq. ft. worth). He's thowing in the labor free if I
build him a computer. I'm figuring on spending $500. to $600. total. There's
a 3.2Ghz Pentium D system on sale at Tiger Direct for $299. that looks like
a good deal. I'd just have to add a DVD writer, an LCD monitor, and keyboard
and mouse and have a system for him. Someone mentioned building an AMD
Athelon system, but I know nothing about the reliability of AMD or how they
compare to Intel, so I haven't considered them.
I'm reluctant to go with AMD just because I've never used one before.
I've got to order it in a couple of days, so what do you think? AMD or
Intel? P4 or PD? Are there any other good deals out there somewhere?
Thanks,
Snyder

Well, the one for $299 has an Intel motherboard with Intel chipset.
And a Pentium D 940 would be OK (not knowing what the system is for,
it should be OK). The Ultra brand memory should be tested by you,
before you ship (Ultra is just about branding, so the memory is made
by someone else.)

The barebones is missing a rear exhaust fan (80mm). It also needs a
CPU heatsink/fan, and with the D 940, you'll want to buy something good
for that. The downflow air from your cooler choice, should help cool
the passively cooled Northbridge on the Intel board.

And looking around, I cannot find something that is both good and
cheap for CPU cooling. Generally speaking, you want a good sized
heatsink for the Pentium D, yet your choice has to fit within that
computer case. The case may not be big enough for some of the choices.
Some heatsinks are big enough, that they can touch the PSU casing.
And things like the original "Big Typhoon" with H clip instead of
push pins, might be too tall for that case. I cannot tell from the
pictures, whether that case is big enough or not.

There is no info on the PSU.

I guess it all depends on how long you'll be on the hook to maintain
this system, as to whether this is a good idea.

Paul

 

[snydley]

After reading the reviews on that system I decided against it. I have picked
out individual parts and am going to put together a system from individual
parts. It'll cost a little more, but it'll be a better computer.
Thanks,
Snyde

 

[snydley]

It's funny, you call some of Tiger's kits junk, but then suggest maybe to go
with Dell, or HP. Last month I put together a computer from parts from Tiger
to replace a DELL that my Aunt has , that is less than a year old, and the
repair guy has "repaired" it 3 times already. He was at her house the day I
delivered the Tiger computer, and I got a look inside the case once he
opened it up. Talk about a piece of junk! The power supply was SO tiny,
maybe 3" x 4" and everything looked so cheap. He was there again replacing
the 3rd motherboard. I'd much rather buy parts from Tiger than to buy a
P.O.S. from DELL or any of those OEM dealers. I believe they put the
cheapest parts they can buy into those things so they can maximize their
profits.
I wasn't acting like it was some "special situation", I was just asking
peoples opinion's on Pentium D's, and AMD systems, because I've never used
either, and whether or not anyone knew of and good deals on barebones or
parts at this time. Maybe you think some of Tiger's kit's are junk, but
I've built 4 systems this way in the last 6 months, researching the parts
first and have had nothing but great luck with them. But, I'm not afraid to
admit that I don't know it all or to ask for people's opinions before making
purchases.
Thanks,
Snyde

 

[CBFalconer]

It's funny, you call some of Tiger's kits junk, but then suggest maybe to go
with Dell, or HP. Last month I put together a computer from parts from Tiger
to replace a DELL that my Aunt has , that is less than a year old, and the
repair guy has "repaired" it 3 times already. He was at her house the day I
delivered the Tiger computer, and I got a look inside the case once he
opened it up. Talk about a piece of junk! The power supply was SO tiny,
maybe 3" x 4" and everything looked so cheap. He was there again replacing
the 3rd motherboard. I'd much rather buy parts from Tiger than to buy a
P.O.S. from DELL or any of those OEM dealers. I believe they put the
cheapest parts they can buy into those things so they can maximize their
profits.
I wasn't acting like it was some "special situation", I was just asking
peoples opinion's on Pentium D's, and AMD systems, because I've never used
either, and whether or not anyone knew of and good deals on barebones or
parts at this time. Maybe you think some of Tiger's kit's are junk, but
I've built 4 systems this way in the last 6 months, researching the parts
first and have had nothing but great luck with them. But, I'm not afraid to
admit that I don't know it all or to ask for people's opinions before making
purchases.

Please do not top-post. Your answer belongs after (or intermixed
with) the quoted material to which you reply, after snipping all
irrelevant material. See the following links:

--
<http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html>
<http://www.caliburn.nl/topposting.html>
<http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html>
<http://cfaj.freeshell.org/google/> (taming google)
<http://members.fortunecity.com/nnqweb/> (newusers)

 

[Darklight]

My friend just built a PC with a Intel Pentium dual core i think e6300
it was a boxed CPU and it came with a decent fan.

I would stay away from OEM CPU'S If i remember correctly
OEM CPU'S come with a years warranty, and boxed three years warranty

 

[kony]

It's funny, you call some of Tiger's kits junk,

Not so funny, Tiger Direct was even involved in some credit
card scams that billed people for undesired phone services.

They are a company best avoided.

but then suggest maybe to go
with Dell, or HP. Last month I put together a computer from parts from Tiger
to replace a DELL that my Aunt has , that is less than a year old, and the
repair guy has "repaired" it 3 times already.

Then the repair guy didn't know what he was doing.

He was at her house the day I
delivered the Tiger computer, and I got a look inside the case once he
opened it up. Talk about a piece of junk! The power supply was SO tiny,
maybe 3" x 4" and everything looked so cheap.

You may not have any idea what you're talking about.
They use average or above quality components, certainly
better than the typical Tiger Direct bundles. So what if
the PSU was mATX? If they desiged the system to use lower
power, that will work fine.

Remember also that what you get from the OEM depends on what
you CHOOSE to buy from them. Anyone who merely picks the
cheapest thing, GETS that. At least with the OEMs you don't
find generic PSU or motherboards from PCChips/etc.

He was there again replacing
the 3rd motherboard.

If you are as experienced with assesing parts as you
suggest, why didn't you do the work?

I'd much rather buy parts from Tiger than to buy a
P.O.S. from DELL or any of those OEM dealers.

If you want to avoid OEMs, ok... but Tiger Direct is a bad
choice and their barebones even worse, it's like begging for
problems.

I believe they put the
cheapest parts they can buy into those things so they can maximize their
profits.

I have serviced quite a few OEM systems. Yes they do cut
corners to save a buck, but that's what you get anywhere at
lowest cost. At least with the OEM you have a certain
quality level that is higher than the cheapest TD barebones.

I wasn't acting like it was some "special situation", I was just asking
peoples opinion's on Pentium D's, and AMD systems, because I've never used
either, and whether or not anyone knew of and good deals on barebones or
parts at this time. Maybe you think some of Tiger's kit's are junk, but
I've built 4 systems this way in the last 6 months, researching the parts
first and have had nothing but great luck with them. But, I'm not afraid to
admit that I don't know it all or to ask for people's opinions before making
purchases.

I can't believe you had researched much if you didn't come
across hundreds of warnings to avoid Tiger Direct. Further
there is no research that would tend to suggest their
barebones are a good option, rather a cheap one.

So maybe if TD offers a bundle on certain cheap parts you
might get a small % lower cost, but it is not a reason to
avoid OEMs and not a reason to build a system with so many
corners cut. "Reliable" was written and I just can't
recommend a generic seller known for shady business
practices and an unknown "bundle" as in general the odds are
extremely high of running into problems with this approach.

So you build 6 systems, come back in a few more months or
years as they are not out of the infancy stage, if a system
cost 10% less but didn't have 90% of the lifespan then it
was no bargain.

I hope Tiger Direct is shut down, there are plenty of Better
Business Bureau filings as well as tons of people who wish
they'd never had anything to do with them.

 

[kony]

My friend just built a PC with a Intel Pentium dual core i think e6300
it was a boxed CPU and it came with a decent fan.

I would stay away from OEM CPU'S If i remember correctly
OEM CPU'S come with a years warranty, and boxed three years warranty

Irrelevant, if your CPU lasts the first few days it will not
fail anytime soon unless it is a builder fault which
wouldn't be covered by a warranty regardless.

However, if the absolute cheapest build is desired without
regard to noise, the retail CPU comes with a heatsink so
there is some savings there.

 

[jameshanley39]

Hi Guys,
I guess I should have elaborated more on this computer I'm gonna put
together. It's not for me. I'm having a good friend install laminated wood
floors in my house,(600 sq. ft. worth). He's thowing in the labor free if I
build him a computer. I'm figuring on spending $500. to $600. total. There's
a 3.2Ghz Pentium D system on sale at Tiger Direct for $299. that looks like
a good deal. I'd just have to add a DVD writer, an LCD monitor, and keyboard
and mouse and have a system for him. Someone mentioned building an AMD
Athelon system, but I know nothing about the reliability of AMD or how they
compare to Intel, so I haven't considered them.
I'm reluctant to go with AMD just because I've never used one before.
I've got to order it in a couple of days, so what do you think? AMD or
Intel? P4 or PD? Are there any other good deals out there somewhere?
Thanks,
Snyder

don't fear AMD. They work exactly the same. and are reliable. A great
make.

processors exist in eras..
The Athlon XP competed with the P4
I have had nice Athlon XP 3000+ systems.. I think they are meant to
compete with the P4 3GHz. (Note- 3000+ isn't the GHz, it means the
chip is equivalent to a P4 3GHz).

Since the p4 northwood core, intel produced p4 prescott, which people
avoided 'cos it ran so hot. So people were buying AMD Athlon XP..
The Athlon 64 may have competed with P4 too.. and was prob faster than
the Athlon XP

The Pentium D, a processor with 2 cores (though not sure if it was
called dual core). It also ran hot.. There is the Athlon 64 X2 which
beats it. I think in performance and speed. And prob temp too.

I think intel has been dead from since after the p4 northwood - i.e.
since the p4 prescott, up until before they produced the core duo. I
think now intel are ahead of AMD in speed with their core 2 duo.

But the core 2 duo is pricey..

A friend wanted a cheap new comp. He didn't ask me to build it and I
didn't offer. (I can't even be bothered to build my own half the time,
they currently decorate the floor when the mbrd dies).

Since I wasn't building it. He wanted a Dell(tech support). I was
telling him to considering getting an AMD AThlon X2. Though for some
reason their prices on them weren't cheap.
He had a p3, maybe around 400MHz. Running win xp. I maxed out the
RAM to 384MB - really improved it. Reinstalled windows too. I had
wondered if it would help a 450mhz, but Kony mentioned that it
depended purely on application. He was right. He only had 128MB
before. I know from my p4 and amd athlon xp and asking people, that
Win XP runs ok on 256 much better on 512. And many use 1GB. 2GB is
prob overkill unless serious apps.. So my advice to him was to hang
on and get a core 2 duo when the price drops. If that hadn't worked
then maybe i'd have told him to look elsewhere to find a reasonably
priced AMD Athlon 64 X2.

Regarding part reliability.
If I build a comp, I can't help but order good makes for each part.
I'm not sure if it's so good to get it off ebay.. I guess it's ok if
it's new. Especially important with a MBRD to get it new.. I hate Dead
MBRDs. 'cos I hate changing processors..

Somebody mentioned to me that prior to 2000, parts were quite
reliable..
But since 2000, parts tend to break after a few years.

I have a few p4s and Athlon XPs lying dead on the floor(dead mbrd)...
Though I have one P4 that still runs nicely.. Yet a friend still has
a p3 450 that works!

my main points here are the ones i made earlier..

a)don't fear AMD. they work the same as intel from the outside. Just
getting the mbrd, installing the processor, has its technique. 'cos of
the socket it uses. Same principles as intel there.. just prob a
different socket
b)the point about eras of processors, which compete with which..
That's what you need to know to compare processors - intel and AMD. .
And know which have which issues . For what you're looking at.. pre
core duo or pre core 2 duo.. I think AMD is the way to go. From what
i've heard anyway.. Prob Athlon 64 X2. I guess Athlon 64 is a bit
old

It may not be wise to get something too old incase it breaks.. i'm not
sure. Maybe if it's new(unused) it's ok..

 

[snydley]

Hey Kony,
GO **** YOURSELF!

Not so funny, Tiger Direct was even involved in some credit
card scams that billed people for undesired phone services.

They are a company best avoided.




Then the repair guy didn't know what he was doing.




You may not have any idea what you're talking about.
They use average or above quality components, certainly
better than the typical Tiger Direct bundles. So what if
the PSU was mATX? If they desiged the system to use lower
power, that will work fine.

Remember also that what you get from the OEM depends on what
you CHOOSE to buy from them. Anyone who merely picks the
cheapest thing, GETS that. At least with the OEMs you don't
find generic PSU or motherboards from PCChips/etc.






If you are as experienced with assesing parts as you
suggest, why didn't you do the work?



If you want to avoid OEMs, ok... but Tiger Direct is a bad
choice and their barebones even worse, it's like begging for
problems.





I have serviced quite a few OEM systems. Yes they do cut
corners to save a buck, but that's what you get anywhere at
lowest cost. At least with the OEM you have a certain
quality level that is higher than the cheapest TD barebones.





I can't believe you had researched much if you didn't come
across hundreds of warnings to avoid Tiger Direct. Further
there is no research that would tend to suggest their
barebones are a good option, rather a cheap one.

So maybe if TD offers a bundle on certain cheap parts you
might get a small % lower cost, but it is not a reason to
avoid OEMs and not a reason to build a system with so many
corners cut. "Reliable" was written and I just can't
recommend a generic seller known for shady business
practices and an unknown "bundle" as in general the odds are
extremely high of running into problems with this approach.

So you build 6 systems, come back in a few more months or
years as they are not out of the infancy stage, if a system
cost 10% less but didn't have 90% of the lifespan then it
was no bargain.

I hope Tiger Direct is shut down, there are plenty of Better
Business Bureau filings as well as tons of people who wish
they'd never had anything to do with them.

 

[snydley]

don't fear AMD. They work exactly the same. and are reliable. A great
make.

processors exist in eras..
The Athlon XP competed with the P4
I have had nice Athlon XP 3000+ systems.. I think they are meant to
compete with the P4 3GHz. (Note- 3000+ isn't the GHz, it means the
chip is equivalent to a P4 3GHz).

Since the p4 northwood core, intel produced p4 prescott, which people
avoided 'cos it ran so hot. So people were buying AMD Athlon XP..
The Athlon 64 may have competed with P4 too.. and was prob faster than
the Athlon XP

The Pentium D, a processor with 2 cores (though not sure if it was
called dual core). It also ran hot.. There is the Athlon 64 X2 which
beats it. I think in performance and speed. And prob temp too.

I think intel has been dead from since after the p4 northwood - i.e.
since the p4 prescott, up until before they produced the core duo. I
think now intel are ahead of AMD in speed with their core 2 duo.

But the core 2 duo is pricey..

A friend wanted a cheap new comp. He didn't ask me to build it and I
didn't offer. (I can't even be bothered to build my own half the time,
they currently decorate the floor when the mbrd dies).

Since I wasn't building it. He wanted a Dell(tech support). I was
telling him to considering getting an AMD AThlon X2. Though for some
reason their prices on them weren't cheap.
He had a p3, maybe around 400MHz. Running win xp. I maxed out the
RAM to 384MB - really improved it. Reinstalled windows too. I had
wondered if it would help a 450mhz, but Kony mentioned that it
depended purely on application. He was right. He only had 128MB
before. I know from my p4 and amd athlon xp and asking people, that
Win XP runs ok on 256 much better on 512. And many use 1GB. 2GB is
prob overkill unless serious apps.. So my advice to him was to hang
on and get a core 2 duo when the price drops. If that hadn't worked
then maybe i'd have told him to look elsewhere to find a reasonably
priced AMD Athlon 64 X2.

Regarding part reliability.
If I build a comp, I can't help but order good makes for each part.
I'm not sure if it's so good to get it off ebay.. I guess it's ok if
it's new. Especially important with a MBRD to get it new.. I hate Dead
MBRDs. 'cos I hate changing processors..

Somebody mentioned to me that prior to 2000, parts were quite
reliable..
But since 2000, parts tend to break after a few years.

I have a few p4s and Athlon XPs lying dead on the floor(dead mbrd)...
Though I have one P4 that still runs nicely.. Yet a friend still has
a p3 450 that works!

my main points here are the ones i made earlier..

a)don't fear AMD. they work the same as intel from the outside. Just
getting the mbrd, installing the processor, has its technique. 'cos of
the socket it uses. Same principles as intel there.. just prob a
different socket
b)the point about eras of processors, which compete with which..
That's what you need to know to compare processors - intel and AMD. .
And know which have which issues . For what you're looking at.. pre
core duo or pre core 2 duo.. I think AMD is the way to go. From what
i've heard anyway.. Prob Athlon 64 X2. I guess Athlon 64 is a bit
old

It may not be wise to get something too old incase it breaks.. i'm not
sure. Maybe if it's new(unused) it's ok..

Hi James,
Thanks for the help,
This was the kind of help I was looking for, informative, fact based info.
Helpful advise, unlike some I've received. I said I wanted to build an
inexpensive system, some took that as meaning the cheapest I could find,
that wasn't the case, I would never do that. I want the "best value, meaning
price, reliability, and performanse, but the best deal I can get under that
criteria.
I ended up not buying a bare bones Tiger kit, but instead bought individual
components from them, including an Intel processor and motherboard, middle
of the road, not the fastest or slowest, not the most expensive, or
cheapest. I think that was the safest way. I will look into an AMD system in
the future, when I'm ready to build one for myself, that way if there are
any problems, which sounds like there won't be from AMD, I only have myself
to blame.
Again thanks,
Snyde

 

[jameshanley39]

Hi James,
Thanks for the help,
This was the kind of help I was looking for, informative, fact based info.
Helpful advise, unlike some I've received. I said I wanted to build an
inexpensive system, some took that as meaning the cheapest I could find,
that wasn't the case, I would never do that. I want the "best value, meaning
price, reliability, and performanse, but the best deal I can get under that
criteria.
I ended up not buying a bare bones Tiger kit, but instead bought individual
components from them, including an Intel processor and motherboard, middle
of the road, not the fastest or slowest, not the most expensive, or
cheapest. I think that was the safest way. I will look into an AMD system in
the future, when I'm ready to build one for myself, that way if there are
any problems, which sounds like there won't be from AMD, I only have myself
to blame.
Again thanks,
Snyde-

My pleasure..
I sympathise with your frustrations over the style in which people
answer. The information is there it's just not given as freely as it
could be.
Funnily enough, so many other newsgroups are worse. This is one of the
best.. Information is here, and people do know their stuff.

Alot of the time, instead of giving the information straight over,
people try to give you only the information that they decide you
need.. Like a person that 5 answers, and all 5 are relevant, but
instead of telling all they know, they only give you the 2 they want.

That's one style problem, there are many, and a large % of
knowledgeable posters on usenet do this.. Including the creme de la
creme..

You may have noticed other style problems..

If you really see this, and it's rare, then I urge you to contribute ,
including posting questions.. and pasting what you know from your
mind.. If we can combine all our knowledge together, then we can be
better techies, lead less troublesome lives in the technical realms,
and let us say Amen.

It goes without saying, that the frequent posters here and the less
frequent, know their stuff.. and do post useful information. That's
better than a lot of newsgroups out there. The main problems are logic
and style.. and at least the logic problems get dealt with by the back
and forth disagreement..

 

[kony]

Hey Kony,
GO **** YOURSELF!

What a useful response. I don't make this stuff up, TD has
a horrible track record and most of their barebones have
weaknesses you wouldn't want, would try to avoid if buying
the parts separately.

 

[jameshanley39]

Well, the one for $299 has an Intel motherboard with Intel chipset.
And a Pentium D 940 would be OK (not knowing what the system is for,
it should be OK). The Ultra brand memory should be tested by you,
before you ship (Ultra is just about branding, so the memory is made
by someone else.)

The barebones is missing a rear exhaust fan (80mm). It also needs a
CPU heatsink/fan, and with the D 940, you'll want to buy something good
for that. The downflow air from your cooler choice, should help cool
the passively cooled Northbridge on the Intel board.

And looking around, I cannot find something that is both good and
cheap for CPU cooling. Generally speaking, you want a good sized
heatsink for the Pentium D, yet your choice has to fit within that
computer case. The case may not be big enough for some of the choices.
Some heatsinks are big enough, that they can touch the PSU casing.
And things like the original "Big Typhoon" with H clip instead of
push pins, might be too tall for that case. I cannot tell from the
pictures, whether that case is big enough or not.

There is no info on the PSU.

I guess it all depends on how long you'll be on the hook to maintain
this system, as to whether this is a good idea.

Paul-

This may not be so relevant ot the OP, but just to add to your point..

This issue of cases not being big enough for HSFs is VERY VERY
serious, I got really mad about that one!! Cases are very expensive in
the UK (typically £70). And The quiet HSFs are really large.. (and a
must have if you are serious about a quiet comp)

I don't know if a fanless heatsink is suitable for a Pentium D, which
is very hot. However, regardless, I was told by email that the
following case will fit all the large HSFs, presumably, meaning, the
"Scythe Ninja" (a tall beast) and the ZALMAN 120mm (A wide beast).

A tall HSF requires a wide case.
A wide HSF requires lots of space between PSU and MBRD, (so, I guess
sort of requires a tall case with the PSU at the top and MBRD not
screwed in near it at the top.. maybe look at the holes for the IO
ports to get an idea of whether the MBRD screws in. Hopefully it's
sufficiently below. Or best, ask the guy that sells it if it'll fit
the HSF - make sure he has a PSU in there though at the time!)

Err, as to the case.. He said one of the Acousticases, or the Antec
P180.

may have been a guy at quietpc.com/co.uk that said that. They sell
the big HSFs so they should know.

I got a fantastic deal on otherwise fantastic cases. screwless chenbro
ones. I got a few of them but they didn't fit the tall or wide HSFs!
Nobody has put up a site that mentiones the Case component or HSF
component, and issues ! would need logical contributors