Does pentium d have heat issues?

[risc]

I am looking to build a new machine on a low tight budget and so cannot
consider either of the new cpu's from intel & amd i.e the core 2 and the x2
respectively. Using the cpu charts on toms hardware guide I can see that the
pentium d 820 is by far the best choice in terms of the type of performance
I want, far better than the price equivalent amd cpu but what worries me is
all the stuff i have heard about heat problems with the intel chips, despite
the hours i have spent so far trying to find out about this i am really none
the wiser, I get the impression that it was more the standard p4's of higher
clock speeds that were the problem, I understand that it ran
hotter than the amd's but as long as it did not have problems with
overheating with standard cooling solutions etc..., instability, throttling
down because of heat.

Anyhow after spending much time trying to clarify this issue with my own
searches I am now hoping I can get some good advice here because my own
searches have been of little help, so if anyone has any good or bad
practical experience with the pentium d 820 I would really appreciate
hearing about it. By the way my current cpu is an ancient pentium3 500, so
that has been my last experience with cpu's etc... so this is why I need
some advice from people with more recent experience.

 

[JAD]

I think the whole 'heat' issue is more about 'old timers' relating older chips normal temp
and todays chips. Yes they can overheat easier with improper cooling and/or lack of
maintainance. I just put together a 640 3.2 and it hovers at 41c cpu and 40c system. If I
stress it, the temp can get to 45c. Well within spec, however compared to where you were 3
years ago thats getting hot. Most of the 900 series P4s that I have built run very well
with a stock HSF ,powerful PSU and above average case/cooling. You just can't get away
with things like you used to. MHO

 

[risc]

Thanks, I just don't want to have to worry about non-standard cooling
solutions, i.e I want it to be fine with the stock standard cpu heatsink and
fan and for the case not to require anymore cooling than is normal, that
said i don't really know what is normal these days, with my p3 500 cpu I
don't need any case fans just the fan on the powersupply and cpu, is a case
fan a necessity these days? I have heard lot's of murmurings in recent times
about problems keeping modern cpu's cool, cases needing special ducting and
maybe even water cooling, i don't want to have to resort to these means. I
should say that I don't plan to put a high power graphics card in, I wonder
if it is the use of multiple high power graphics cards that have led to the
cooling problems i have heard about rather than the cpu, I will probably
just stick to the motherboards onboard graphics.

 

[JAD]

Thanks, I just don't want to have to worry about non-standard cooling
solutions, i.e I want it to be fine with the stock standard cpu heatsink and
fan and for the case not to require anymore cooling than is normal, that
said i don't really know what is normal these days, with my p3 500 cpu I
don't need any case fans just the fan on the powersupply and cpu, is a case
fan a necessity these days?

Yes, and that kind of reminiscing is what spawns the 'heat' issue stuff. Your correct you
could get away with a 20$ case and the PSu fan for case ventilation. This will not work
(or at least not long) these days. Although it is not necessary to over do it when it
comes to 'fans' you will need a rear fan at least. If you spend a little more on the case
you can solve 2 problems with one move.



I have heard lot's of murmurings in recent times

about problems keeping modern cpu's cool, cases needing special ducting and
maybe even water cooling, i don't want to have to resort to these means.

nonsense
I
should say that I don't plan to put a high power graphics card in, I wonder
if it is the use of multiple high power graphics cards that have led to the
cooling problems i have heard about rather than the cpu,

definitely adds to the heat, thus the need for a rear fan to exhaust it

I will probably

just stick to the motherboards onboard graphics.

most likely that will do you just fine.

 

[risc]

Thanks, that clears some things up.
I am still confused though over whether the pentium d 820 is the way to go,
going
by toms hardware cpu charts it certainly is but this article I just found
tells a different story http://www.manicgeeks.com/viewstory.php?id=137
Of course I would need to find more than one person saying this because you
can never know whether they just stuffed up in someway.
Did you ever test for this issue with the 900 series pentium d cpu systems
that you built?

 

[risc]

And then you get sites like this
http://www.tbreak.com/reviews/article.php?id=391 saying the 820 does not
really get hot, all bloody confusing, I don't seem to be able to get a
definite answer on this as I keep seeing contradictory statements on
different websites, makes you wonder about the reliability of some of the
info out there.

 

[risc]

I have found at least 2 sites that say that cpu throttling is removed from
the 820 chip so what is the story on manicgeeks talking about?

 

[Paul]

I have found at least 2 sites that say that cpu throttling is removed from
the 820 chip so what is the story on manicgeeks talking about?

EIST is perhaps removed from the 820. Section 6.2.5 on page 88
here, mentions the possibility.

http://download.intel.com/design/Pentiumd/datashts/30750603.pdf

And the Spec Update tells you which processors don't have EIST.
If EIST is using the x14 multiplier, the 820 is already at
x14, so there is no "reduced frequency" for one of those to
drop to.

ftp://download.intel.com/design/PentiumXE/specupdt/30683217.pdf

There are some temperatures mentioned here for an 820 D in
this review. And notice in the benchmarks, that it depends on
whether the benchmark supports multithreading, as to whether
the 650 gets trounced or not.

http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/Reviews/Print.aspx?ArticleId=15892

Paul

 

[DaveW]

The Pentium D's run VERY hot.

 

[risc]

But is it an issue?

The Pentium D's run VERY hot.

 

[You Know Who ~]

I think you are overanalyzing this. IF you dont go hog wild with
overclocking, and IF you use a good quality cpu fan (I might spring for
something more than the one that comes with the retail pack) then no, I
don't see it as an issue. then again, if you go too far with overclocking
any cpu, or if you use a dirt cheap fan, you are risking "issues".

 

[JAD]

But is it an issue?

No,, i skipped the 8xx series pretty much, went from the 6xx to 9xx. Only about 11
machines in the 9 series. None of them had heat issues. 7 of them built with Antec cases,
4 with fancy dooh dahs but traded out PSU's for more reputable brand. All had one exhaust
fan 120mm @ 5-7 volts at the rear. All with stock HSF. Biggest CON: fan noise. I would
say for the most part the 9xx run hotter than the 8xx, so no issues with them, I can't see
the 8 being any MORE of a problem, if you even want to call it a problem. The biggest
ISSUE these days , IMO, is the PSU not being up to snuff.

 

[risc]

Thanks that is most helpful but I also count the cpu throttling down to keep
it's temp within normal limits as a big issue and this is something i have
been unable to find out for sure although one website stated that this is
exactly what happens http://www.manicgeeks.com/viewstory.php?id=137 ,in
other words the cpu only runs at full potential for a short time which means
it is not the cpu it pretends to be, unfortunately it seems that review
sites don't test for this obvious potential problem and seem to go on a lot
about heat for the sake of heats sake rather than whether it is actually a
problem or not, very frustrating, all I want to know is can the cpu run
under full load for extended periods without overheating or throttling down
to prevent overheating, real simple basic thing to know yet they test
everything but this.

 

[risc]

No I don't think I am over analysing it all I want to know is can the cpu
run
under full load for extended periods without overheating or throttling down
to prevent overheating, real simple basic thing that one really needs to
know, other than some real life benchmarks there is no other vital info to
know, these are the practical things that matter all the other info that
review sites go into means nothing in a practical sense. I don't know why
you had the impression i was interested in overclocking, I definitely am
not.
Love the quote by the way, so true and may even apply here as thinks seem to
point to this cpu being a pretender, i.e it only operates at it's full
potential for a short time then throttles down to a different cpu which
would not beat the cpu's it previously did, i.e a con.

 

[Paul]

Thanks that is most helpful but I also count the cpu throttling down to keep
it's temp within normal limits as a big issue and this is something i have
been unable to find out for sure although one website stated that this is
exactly what happens http://www.manicgeeks.com/viewstory.php?id=137 ,in
other words the cpu only runs at full potential for a short time which means
it is not the cpu it pretends to be, unfortunately it seems that review
sites don't test for this obvious potential problem and seem to go on a lot
about heat for the sake of heats sake rather than whether it is actually a
problem or not, very frustrating, all I want to know is can the cpu run
under full load for extended periods without overheating or throttling down
to prevent overheating, real simple basic thing to know yet they test
everything but this.

This article reports 41C at idle and 57C at load, 820D with retail cooler:
http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/Reviews/Print.aspx?ArticleId=15892

800 series datasheet:
http://download.intel.com/design/Pentiumd/datashts/30750603.pdf

"When the Thermal Monitor feature is enabled, and a high temperature
situation exists (i.e., TCC is active), the clocks will be modulated
by alternately turning the clocks off and on at a duty cycle
specific to the processor (typically 30–50%)... Once the temperature
has dropped below the maximum operating temperature, and the hysteresis
timer has expired, the TCC goes inactive and clock modulation ceases."

For a 95W processor, Tmax is 64.1C. For a 130W processor, Tmax is 69.8C.
Both temperatures are higher than the 57C mentioned in the above review.
(The above review doesn't mention the computer case temp or the room temp,
which are necessary to normalize the results.)

Paul

 

[kony]

I think the whole 'heat' issue is more about 'old timers' relating older chips normal temp
and todays chips. Yes they can overheat easier with improper cooling and/or lack of
maintainance. I just put together a 640 3.2 and it hovers at 41c cpu and 40c system. If I
stress it, the temp can get to 45c. Well within spec, however compared to where you were 3
years ago thats getting hot. Most of the 900 series P4s that I have built run very well
with a stock HSF ,powerful PSU and above average case/cooling. You just can't get away
with things like you used to. MHO

No, they really do have a poor heaterformance ratio, there
is no good reason to build a P4 Prescott based system today
unless you already had half the parts so it was a lot
cheaper.

It's not just a matter of overheating, which as you noted
can be avoided with due diligence. It's also the
requirement for more PSU w/o gain, more noise to remove the
heat (heatsink fan spins faster all else being equal).

When one makes these kinds of concessions to stay closer to
the cutting ege it seems reasonable, but once there are
better alternatives available why bother?

 

[kony]

I am looking to build a new machine on a low tight budget and so cannot
consider either of the new cpu's from intel & amd i.e the core 2 and the x2
respectively.

Then get a single core Athlon 64.

Using the cpu charts on toms hardware guide I can see that the
pentium d 820 is by far the best choice in terms of the type of performance
I want, far better than the price equivalent amd cpu

What tasks?

Pricewatch shows a Pentium 820 around $86, which is a good
price (drop) but that's about what an A64, 4000+ costs too,
and the 4000+ is far faster at many tasks, particularly
those not optimized for the P4... but we don't know what
you're running, I mean even how new the software, not just
type of work.

but what worries me is
all the stuff i have heard about heat problems with the intel chips, despite
the hours i have spent so far trying to find out about this i am really none
the wiser, I get the impression that it was more the standard p4's of higher
clock speeds that were the problem, I understand that it ran
hotter than the amd's but as long as it did not have problems with
overheating with standard cooling solutions etc..., instability, throttling
down because of heat.

They aren't a problem to cool, assuming a solid case choice,
moderate ambient/room temp, etc, but use a bit more power
(you need a "marginally" better PSU), and creating more heat
means (all else equal) more noise. I wouldn't want to run
the Intel retail 'sink on one long-term, but with a good 3rd
party heatsink/fan you can keep it reasonably quiet - but
that adds significant cost.

Anyhow after spending much time trying to clarify this issue with my own
searches I am now hoping I can get some good advice here because my own
searches have been of little help, so if anyone has any good or bad
practical experience with the pentium d 820 I would really appreciate
hearing about it. By the way my current cpu is an ancient pentium3 500, so
that has been my last experience with cpu's etc... so this is why I need
some advice from people with more recent experience.

Considering how long you use a CPU, I strongly suggest
spending the extra ~ $80 and going with a Core2Duo.

That doesnt' make the 820 a bad choice, it just doesn't have
anything going for it in particular except the current
price. Core2Duo has kept it's higher price for a long time
now, I keep wondering when it'll drop... if you've waited
this long, maybe it's worthwhile to see when Core2Duo gets
cheaper and in the interim, buy the other parts as you see a
good market price on them, things that don't depreciate so
much in particular like the case, PSU, optical drive, etc.

 

[risc]

No, they really do have a poor heaterformance ratio, there
is no good reason to build a P4 Prescott based system today
unless you already had half the parts so it was a lot
cheaper.

It's not just a matter of overheating, which as you noted
can be avoided with due diligence. It's also the
requirement for more PSU w/o gain, more noise to remove the
heat (heatsink fan spins faster all else being equal).

When one makes these kinds of concessions to stay closer to
the cutting ege it seems reasonable, but once there are
better alternatives available why bother?

Thanks but what better alternatives are there for the current price of an
intel d820?

 

[risc]

Then get a single core Athlon 64.

According to toms hardware cpu charts the cpu you recommend benchmarks
nowhere near as good as the d820, 1/2 the performance or less in a lot of
tests.

What tasks?

Multitasking, video encoding although the d820 thrashes the equivalent
priced amd in every test I looked at including games.

 

[Thomas]

Thanks but what better alternatives are there for the current price
of an intel d820?

Any Intel Core 2 Duo? For instance, the E4300.