PC hardware problems

[Jan Alter]

w_tom <w_tom1 usa.net> wrote:

...


Or in w_tom's case, trolling with the possible intent of doing harm to
others and their possessions.

Search the USENET archive for author "w_tom", and a term like
"surge suppressor". In my opinion, the best rebuttals to w_tom's
maliciousness/stupidity/whatever are in the electronics design group.

Good luck and have fun.

Tom,

I asked a question before, which was the point of the whole OP's
problem, I believe. How would you use a multimeter to determine how many
watts the PS could put out before the system wouldn't start reliably.
Instead of answering the question, which could elucidate not only myself but
a few other folks who might be interested, you chose to berate me.
Would you mind helping now, or are you really responding for another
purpose?

 

[Chris Hill]

Tom,

I asked a question before, which was the point of the whole OP's
problem, I believe. How would you use a multimeter to determine how many
watts the PS could put out before the system wouldn't start reliably.
Instead of answering the question, which could elucidate not only myself but
a few other folks who might be interested, you chose to berate me.

There isn't an answer to your question. A multimeter can't do what
you wish done.

 

[w_tom]

I asked a question before, which was the point of the whole OP's
problem, I believe. How would you use a multimeter to determine how many
watts the PS could put out before the system wouldn't start reliably.
Instead of answering the question, ...

Nobody knows nor cares. First wattage for each voltage is
important; not total wattage. Second, label on a power supply that
says 300 watts could also mean the supply is 210 watts or could mean
it is 425 watts. You don't care how many watts because that says
nothing useful anyway. Third, that web site wattage number is how the
naive answer the naive; really provides nothing useful.

A solution means maximizing a load; then measuring four voltages.
Those measurements report what is important for wattage on each
voltage, excessive ripple voltage, and other potential problems - all
in two minutes.

Nobody here is spending $thousands for dynamic loading test
equipment that is required for your question. OP has a system whose
power requirements are mostly unknown. A total wattage number says
little about each voltage AND that does not say where / how wattage
was measured.

The multimeter does what the OP needs - answers his question
definitively. Notice the last word in that sentence. Shotgunning does
not provide the word 'definitive'. Meter can also do what you ask.
But buy or build a small circuit. It is simple with first year
technician knowledge routinely found among Radio Shack customers (with
some wires, connectors, and a few parts), but completely irrelevant to
the OP's problem.

To obtain total wattage consumption, then the meter and a
multiplication can also provide that number. Again, this requires
simple electrical knowledge. Or spend another $20 for a Kil-a-Watt.
But that wattage number still provides zero useful numbers for the
OP's problem - still results in no useful replies here.

Notice the point so little understood by many A+ Certified computer
techs. The relevant wattage is for each voltage. Since one need not
know how electricity works to be A+ Certified, then those techs only
look at two numbers for a supply - dollars and watts. But a power
supply is chock full of essential functions - at least one full page
of numerical specs apply. IOW if you are asking about selecting a
supply, well, long before that, ask for many other important numbers
that manufacturers of inferior supplies often 'forget' to provide -
for good reason. Many supplies sold to naive certified techs are
missing required functions because they don't even know what those
functions are.

But if asking about this supply in this computer - two minutes with
a 3.5 digit multimeter is necessary. This supply in this computer is
the only relevant question to an OP. Total wattage consumption is
irrelevant and mostly useless information, but is too often hyped by
those who don't even know what a power supply must accomplish.

Notice how much knowledge can assist the OP if he only spends two
minutes with a multimeter. Nothing useful provided again because
numbers from the meter are not provided. His replies will only be as
useful as the information he provides. That means two minutes with a
meter.

 

[Jan Alter]

Nobody knows nor cares. First wattage for each voltage is
important; not total wattage. Second, label on a power supply that
says 300 watts could also mean the supply is 210 watts or could mean
it is 425 watts. You don't care how many watts because that says
nothing useful anyway. Third, that web site wattage number is how the
naive answer the naive; really provides nothing useful.

A solution means maximizing a load; then measuring four voltages.
Those measurements report what is important for wattage on each
voltage, excessive ripple voltage, and other potential problems - all
in two minutes.

Nobody here is spending $thousands for dynamic loading test
equipment that is required for your question. OP has a system whose
power requirements are mostly unknown. A total wattage number says
little about each voltage AND that does not say where / how wattage
was measured.

The multimeter does what the OP needs - answers his question
definitively. Notice the last word in that sentence. Shotgunning does
not provide the word 'definitive'. Meter can also do what you ask.
But buy or build a small circuit. It is simple with first year
technician knowledge routinely found among Radio Shack customers (with
some wires, connectors, and a few parts), but completely irrelevant to
the OP's problem.

To obtain total wattage consumption, then the meter and a
multiplication can also provide that number. Again, this requires
simple electrical knowledge. Or spend another $20 for a Kil-a-Watt.
But that wattage number still provides zero useful numbers for the
OP's problem - still results in no useful replies here.

Notice the point so little understood by many A+ Certified computer
techs. The relevant wattage is for each voltage. Since one need not
know how electricity works to be A+ Certified, then those techs only
look at two numbers for a supply - dollars and watts. But a power
supply is chock full of essential functions - at least one full page
of numerical specs apply. IOW if you are asking about selecting a
supply, well, long before that, ask for many other important numbers
that manufacturers of inferior supplies often 'forget' to provide -
for good reason. Many supplies sold to naive certified techs are
missing required functions because they don't even know what those
functions are.

But if asking about this supply in this computer - two minutes with
a 3.5 digit multimeter is necessary. This supply in this computer is
the only relevant question to an OP. Total wattage consumption is
irrelevant and mostly useless information, but is too often hyped by
those who don't even know what a power supply must accomplish.

Notice how much knowledge can assist the OP if he only spends two
minutes with a multimeter. Nothing useful provided again because
numbers from the meter are not provided. His replies will only be as
useful as the information he provides. That means two minutes with a
meter.

I am still not comprehending how the multimeter will establish the wattage
of the OP's PS. Your stating that the total wattage is irrelevent has some
merit in that depending on which rail is being accessed by the graphics card
may be the determining factor to the system not starting correctly every
time. So, yes, the PS may have the total capacity of putting out 300 w, but
the amperage on one of the rails is deficient of amperage needed for the
new graphics card the OP put in the system.
I'll rephrase the question a little. How can one use a multimeter to
determine the wattage that a PS is putting out for each of the voltages on
the PS to determine if it has enough watts to drive the system?

 

[w_tom]

I'll rephrase the question a little. How can one use a multimeter to
determine the wattage that a PS is putting out for each of the voltages on
the PS to determine if it has enough watts to drive the system?

The multimter procedure is not getting such numbers that are useless
to you or the OP.

First, are we selecting a supply? Or are we trying to confirm what
we have? OP must confirm what he has.

Second, if do all that measuring, then what have we accomplished?
Nothing. What is important about watts is obtained in the procedure
entitled "When your computer dies without warning....." starting 6
Feb 2007 in the newsgroup alt.windows-xp at:
http://tinyurl.com/yvf9vh

Even in Radio Shack were books to describe how to determine that
wattage. But you must installed or build the circuit / wires. IOW it
requires simplest electrical knowledge. I am not going to teach what
is simple electrical knowledge especially when 1) it is completely
irrelevant to the topic here, 2) you should already know that
information if advising on power supplies, 3) best learned from
electrical books found in most any county library, and 4) obvious once
meter is learned and understood.

With grasp of a world famous equation, then you would not be asking
that question. The equation: E=IR
I will not teach here what is irrelevant to Malakei's problem , that
anyone with the most minimal electrical knowledge would know, and that
is explained in any basic primer on electricity. A two minutes with
that procedure would finally provide the OP with an answer that is
useful. What you are asking is not useful to Malakei.

 

[Jan Alter]

OK, question answered. It can't give you watts.

Now, how would you be able to determine if his or anyone else's PS has
enough 'power' to handle a specific system using a multimeter?
One more thing. It's clear that you know something about electricity,
but do you think you might be able to convey those thoughts without putting
one down while you're doing it? Such phrases as

IOW it
requires simplest electrical knowledge. I am not going to teach what
is simple electrical knowledge especially when 1) it is completely
irrelevant to the topic here, 2) you should already know that
information if advising on power supplies, 3) best learned from
electrical books found in most any county library, and 4) obvious once
meter is learned and understood.

With grasp of a world famous equation, then you would not be asking
that question. The equation: E=IR

do not help one understand. They are inefficient barriers that hinder the
learning process. Of course, if you'd rather not then just say so and we'll
let the dialogue end.


Jan Alter
(e-mail address removed)
or
(e-mail address removed)12.pa.us

 

[Malakei]

The multimter procedure is not getting such numbers that are useless
to you or the OP.

First, are we selecting a supply? Or are we trying to confirm what
we have? OP must confirm what he has.

Second, if do all that measuring, then what have we accomplished?
Nothing. What is important about watts is obtained in the procedure
entitled "When your computer dies without warning....." starting 6
Feb 2007 in the newsgroup alt.windows-xp at:
http://tinyurl.com/yvf9vh

Even in Radio Shack were books to describe how to determine that
wattage. But you must installed or build the circuit / wires. IOW it
requires simplest electrical knowledge. I am not going to teach what
is simple electrical knowledge especially when 1) it is completely
irrelevant to the topic here, 2) you should already know that
information if advising on power supplies, 3) best learned from
electrical books found in most any county library, and 4) obvious once
meter is learned and understood.

With grasp of a world famous equation, then you would not be asking
that question. The equation: E=IR
I will not teach here what is irrelevant to Malakei's problem , that
anyone with the most minimal electrical knowledge would know, and that
is explained in any basic primer on electricity. A two minutes with
that procedure would finally provide the OP with an answer that is
useful. What you are asking is not useful to Malakei.

I didnt expect my topic to fall into debate - actually up until
recently my PC was running albiet a bit unreliable - it would always
boot on powerup - occasionally the graphics card would require a
little wiggle to get it to stop that infernal beeping but it booted
just fine - my main problem is the recent event of booting up and
failing within 2-3 secs then the CMOS clear fixing it - i cant for the
life of me work out why that works.

 

[w_tom]

I didnt expect my topic to fall into debate - actually up until
recently my PC was running albiet a bit unreliable - it would always
boot on powerup - occasionally the graphics card would require a
little wiggle to get it to stop that infernal beeping but it booted
just fine - my main problem is the recent event of booting up and
failing within 2-3 secs then the CMOS clear fixing it - i cant for the
life of me work out why that works.

Described is what happens when a power supply has always been
defective - as I posted previously. See that post to appreciate
why. Currently your power supply is 'unknown' and has been acting
for months as if defective. You must move the supply 'sytem' from
'unknown' into either a 'definitively good' or 'definitively bad'
category. As long as power supply 'system' remains unknown, then
nothing has been accomplished. A solution so simple that the tool is
even sold in K-mart. Wal-mart prices are even better. Radio Shack
sometimes has them on sale for half price. I am talking about the
only reason why you are ignoring this - fear. The point: a meter
and that procedure is the only recommendation worth more than spit.
As should be obvious - your other recommendations come from people who
do not even know how electricity works. Fear their recommendations.

You have assumed your computer is good when evidence suggests it has
always been defective. But I am only repeating what was posted
yesterday. Your symptoms are consistent with a power supply that was
always defective. Every reply will be nothing more than wild
speculaton until numbers are provided. Shotgunning a supply will not
change the 'system' from 'unknown'. Even shotgunning the battery was
an example of wasted time and money. Well that battery was ony a few
dollar. The next shotgun will cost what - $100 more? Further
shotgunning will get expensive AND may create more damage -
exponentially complicate the problem. Get the meter.

 

[Jan Alter]

I didnt expect my topic to fall into debate - actually up until
recently my PC was running albiet a bit unreliable - it would always
boot on powerup - occasionally the graphics card would require a
little wiggle to get it to stop that infernal beeping but it booted
just fine - my main problem is the recent event of booting up and
failing within 2-3 secs then the CMOS clear fixing it - i cant for the
life of me work out why that works.

So seriously, what are you going to do about it? I can remember at least two
suggestions that have been posted here that are poignant to solving the
problem.