Paul Thurrott.... a software pirate.

[MICHAEL]

Not necessarily. If an individual downloads an MP3 and it stops working, that person likely
will go download another one. Besides, it's a dollar. If the same person buys a computer
from a retail store and then finds out their copy of Windows is not genuine, I imagine he or
she would be angry enough to give the information to MSFT. If you notice, MSFT just sued 26
different companies last week for this exact reason, possibly WGA helping the cause a little.

I'm not advocating its use, either, and I am loathe to have it on my little network because
it is by definition, spyware. But I at least am trying to keep an open enough mind to at
least try to understand why they did this, even if I don't like it.

I'm sure WGA will catch some. However, those that are really responsible
for the mass of illegal software and those that use it the most, have already found
ways around WGA. As they always do and will continue to do.

Is catching "some" really worth the hassles? It will more likely cause significant
headaches for regular users, legitimate users. Many of which will just become
confused, frustrated, and pissed off. Numerous reports fill the net of WGA
mistakes.

You and I both know why they did this. A few extra dollars and simply- because
they can.


-Michael

 

[MICHAEL]

Paul certainly doesn't sound like some blathering Microsoft basher.

I am a bit surprised by your statement, Colin. Frankly, disappointed.

http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/winvista_5472_gallery_01.asp

<quote>

Overall, build 5472 looks solid. As with build 5456, I'll be using this as my sole OS going
forward, and it's interesting how much more possible it is to do this than was the case with
Beta 2, which performed horribly on my desktop and notebook systems. Things have definitely
taken a turn for the better. If I find out anything else interesting about this build, I'll
update this page. For now, however, I intend to just use the thing and see how it performs. So
far, so good.

--Paul Thurrott
July 17, 2006

</quote>

http://www.winsupersite.com/vista/

 

[Travis King]

Before long, half of an OS will be anti-piracy software, and the rest will
be the OS. I think activation was okay although I'm not exactly wild about
it, but WGA is overkill. I think I mentioned this before, but I don't like
the feeling of having someone behind my back watching everything I do on my
computer. I just don't feel comfortable using an OS that phones home
everytime I boot my computer, and while now it only will do this sometimes
instead of all the time, I still don't feel trusted. All it would take is
some hacker to get in through the 'phoning home' or someone else's spyware
to monitor the phoning home and bingo, you have a disaster. It's probably
opening up more security holes. I agree with others that say that the
pirates will find a way around WGA and probably already have. They always
do - they have activation cracks and they'll probably have WGA cracks. Just
like illegal music downloading... There's always some way of getting music
and always will be no matter how far the RIAA goes to stop it.

 

[MICHAEL]

I hear you, Travis.

Like you, I don't mind the activation. If I buy a piece of software,
I use the key that comes with it, and then activate it- leave me
the hell alone afterwards. The whole situation has really become
a bunch of invasive crap. With DRM and Microsoft's WGA,
people have allowed "fair use rights" to be stomped all over-
you get bent over and not so much as a hand job or a thank you.
Well, maybe a "thank you" and "please come again".

Microsoft is a cash cow. They have so much cash on hand
they will be buying back $40 billion in stock. Go to
http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/full_list/
look at the list. Microsoft isn't the largest based on sales or
profit. But they have the best sales to profit ratios of any
company in this world. $40 billion in sales to make a profit
of $12 billion. Amazing. They generated more profit than
Wal-Mart. Wal-Mart needed $316 billion in sales to make
$11 billion in profit. There comes a point where Microsoft's
actions just really look like pure greed.

Lastly, the statement below seems like a joke.

"Ultimately, end users are free to choose which software they prefer to use."
-Microsoft

Windows Principles
Twelve Tenets to Promote Competition
July 2006
http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/newsroom/winxp/WindowsPrinciples.mspx

1. Installation of any software. Computer manufacturers and customers are free to add any
software to PCs that run Windows. More broadly, every computer manufacturer and customer is
free to install and promote any operating system, any application, and any Web service on PCs
that run Windows. Ultimately, end users are free to choose which software they prefer to use.



-Michael

 

[Guest]

I have to agree with Mark-we are licensed to use the software and they can
install most anything they want to thier product. We can complain but the
bottom line is why should pirated copies be allowed to get updates that we
paid a license for? I think the daily calls to home were extreme but my copy
is legal so why should I care?

 

[Frank]

I have to agree with Mark-we are licensed to use the software and they can
install most anything they want to thier product. We can complain but the
bottom line is why should pirated copies be allowed to get updates that we
paid a license for? I think the daily calls to home were extreme but my copy
is legal so why should I care?

:

Yeah me too. So innocent people don't need an attorney right?
Frank

 

[Ground Cover]

Does Toyota require you make regular reports on the use of the car they sell
you? Does Double Day publishing require your IP address every time you open
a book they've sold you? Do you owe it to Microsoft or anyone else to submit
to regular seaches, checks, snitch reports and possible seizures? Are you
supposed to give up your freedom to WGA-N DRM DCMA and (soon AACS) and live
your life like a criminal on parole? Are the USA, Canada and Australia
supposed to be police state tyrannies or free countries? For the time being
you are still free to not care. But if things keep going the way they are
going you will not be free.

In Canada now (where I reside), a guy is going to jail for opinions he put
on a website. And now they discussing actually censoring sites from reaching
Canadians a la what the totalitarian government in China is doing:

http://www.forward.com/articles/8042

Bet you didn't know that.

We're are already heading for an Orwellian nightmare because we keep being
oblivious and not caring. If we don't stand vigilant, then we loose our
freedoms because there are many plenties of people who would take them away.

So sure WGA N is just one little thing and you don't need to care - and
that's what they always have you believe.

And sure a person can't care about everything. It's overwelming. But when
you've come to realize something is wrong and you just let your rights and
freedoms get pushed over without a whimper? That's not responsible
citizenship.

 

[Mark D. VandenBerg]

Does Toyota require you make regular reports on the use of the car they
sell
you? Does Double Day publishing require your IP address every time you
open
a book they've sold you?

Not a direct comparison. Microsoft, to this day, has never sold a software
product, only a license to use the software according to an agreement, that
while long and mostly unread, does spell out the terms quite clearly.
Toyota and Double Day both sell you the actual product, and as far as I
know, do not limit the use of their respective products to specific
conditions in any similar type of agreement. Furthermore, I would assume
that Toyota takes significantly more steps than Microsoft ever has to ensure
that their product is not pirated and sold en masse. Imagine a plant
producing and selling fake Camry's, for example. Isn't happening, unless
you loosely consider Hyundai.

Do you owe it to Microsoft or anyone else to submit
to regular seaches, checks, snitch reports and possible seizures? Are you
supposed to give up your freedom to WGA-N DRM DCMA and (soon AACS) and
live
your life like a criminal on parole? Are the USA, Canada and Australia
supposed to be police state tyrannies or free countries? For the time
being
you are still free to not care. But if things keep going the way they are
going you will not be free.

In Canada now (where I reside), a guy is going to jail for opinions he put
on a website. And now they discussing actually censoring sites from
reaching
Canadians a la what the totalitarian government in China is doing:

http://www.forward.com/articles/8042

Bet you didn't know that.

We're are already heading for an Orwellian nightmare because we keep being
oblivious and not caring. If we don't stand vigilant, then we loose our
freedoms because there are many plenties of people who would take them
away.

So sure WGA N is just one little thing and you don't need to care - and
that's what they always have you believe.

And sure a person can't care about everything. It's overwelming. But when
you've come to realize something is wrong and you just let your rights and
freedoms get pushed over without a whimper? That's not responsible
citizenship.

See my post on why Canada is, and has been for a long time, a socialist
country. But as far as I know, the government in place currently is an
elected body, so, if the majority of the people who are citizens wish to
change the policies, they have a route to follow.

I have also stated that I do not care for the WGA spyware in any fashion,
but, in order to use my Microsoft products that I have legally obtained, I
must abide by the conditions set forth by the EULA that I have agreed to.
If you feel that you are not able to or do not wish to abide by the same
agreements, then perhaps you should not be using the product.

 

[MICHAEL]

Let's forget about the slimy way Microsoft has handled
all of this. Let's forget about, for a moment, Microsoft
snuck beta software onto production machines. Let's
forget the critter is spyware that was phoning home every time
you farted. Let's forget Microsoft is rolling in the dough
even though they haven't had a major new product release
in awhile. Let's forget that the user should always have
final say on what software they prefer and want on their
system. Let's forget Microsoft even said the that in
their "Twelve Tenets".

Let's look at some results. Microsoft a few weeks back
reported that:

"80% of all WGA validation failures are due to unauthorized use of leaked
or stolen volume license keys."

I have no idea how they determine this. But, let's turn that
statement around.
20% of all Windows users who fail the WGA validation test are
*not* using leaked or stolen keys.
20% of millions and millions have been wrongly identified/accused
of having a pirated copy. Stop the press- that's a hell of lot of people.

That should be unacceptable in anyone's fuzzy math
calculations.

I am bothered that people actually try to defend such
nonsense and others just pooh, pooh it away as an
acceptable way to do business. Whether it's some
corporation or government, our rights don't get taken
away all at once- they use baby steps, they test the
waters of what people will tolerate. The only thing that
stops such erosion is when people become fed up and
speak out. Such an outcry stopped Sony and their rootkit.
Unfortunately, the later we wait the harder it is to push
back and the harder it is to undo the damage already
done.

If you think Microsoft's actions are not the same- you're
right- they're worse.

Corporations are in business to make money, fine.
But that doesn't mean we have to take whatever they
decide to dish out. As much as I love Microsoft products,
I'm not willing to just trust them to know what's best
for me, nor do I want them to be allowed to do whatever
they want just because they can.

I've said all I am going to say in this thread- if you folks
don't understand why you should be concerned and pissed
off, I can't help you. Just remain in the bent over position.

This is about principles. It seems sorely lacking in today's
business environment and the public just doesn't care.
That's a shame.

Read these.
http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=89
by Ed Bott

So what is the reason for WGA rejecting the other 20% of Windows licenses? ComputerWorld
apparently didn't ask, so I fired off an e-mail to Microsoft's PR agency, who passed along a
response from Cori Hartje, Director of Microsoft Genuine Software Initiative:

"While we will don't have specifics to share on other forms counterfeit installations, they
mostly result from activities such as various forms of tampering and unauthorized OEM
installations."

Yes, that's exactly what they wrote. Besides being woefully ungrammatical, it's also imprecise.
How many are caused by tampering? How many by unauthorized OEM installations? And what exactly
are those categories? Note that there's no admission that some of those failures might be false
positives.
Trying to pry answers out of Microsoft is difficult, because they refuse to grant interviews on
this subject. And taking one question at a time via e-mail, with a lag time of a day or more
between question and answer, is just insulting.

I'll keep beating on this stone wall for as long as I can stand it.


http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=98
by Ed Bott

"About 1 in 5 of the 300 million PCs that have run WGA validation fail."
Yow! By my calculations, that's 60 million people who've been informed by Microsoft that they're
running "non-genuine" copies of Windows.

After looking over this list, the numbers don't add up for me, and they certainly don't explain
why Microsoft is attacking this problem with such a vengeance.

Think about it: 60 million people have been hassled by Windows Genuine Validation. And for
what? The numbers don't add up.

continued.......


Take care,

Michael

 

[MICHAEL]

I have also stated that I do not care for the WGA spyware in any fashion, but, in order to
use my Microsoft products that I have legally obtained, I must abide by the conditions set
forth by the EULA that I have agreed to.

If you feel that you are not able to or do not wish to abide by the same agreements, then
perhaps you should not be using the product.

Or, speak up, speak out in hopes of changing things and maybe
making a positive difference. It may be futile, but I'd rather try
than lay down and just take it.


-Michael

 

[Mark D. VandenBerg]

Or, speak up, speak out in hopes of changing things and maybe
making a positive difference. It may be futile, but I'd rather try
than lay down and just take it.


-Michael

Agreed, wholeheartedly, and I was remiss for not stating this, as you have
done so quite eloquently.

 

[MICHAEL]

Agreed, wholeheartedly, and I was remiss for not stating this, as you have done so quite
eloquently.

Thank you, Mark.

I promise, my last post in this thread. (applause)

I leave you guys with this- Microsoft *lost* $1.26 billion in their Home
and Entertainment division. Yet, their profit for the year still rose
from $12.25 billion to $12.6 billion. Looks to me, Microsoft is
attacking the wrong division in finding ways to increase their already
staggering bottom line.

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/720/720151p1.html
Microsoft's Home and Entertainment division -- which includes Xbox, PC game, and TV platform
products -- still saw losses of $414 million for the quarter and $1.26 billion for the full
year.

Overall, Microsoft posted record fourth quarter revenue of $11.8 billion, though net income
dropped from $3.7 billion to $2.83 billion. For the full fiscal year, revenue was $44.28
billion, 11 percent above last year, while net income for the year rose from $12.25 billion to
$12.6 billion.


-Michael

 

[Ground Cover]

Inline:



One can always claim that. But, it is in fact a reasonable comparison.



Microsoft licences are basically based on copyright, just like books. And
basically, Toyotas are produced assembly style - i.e. as copies of a design.
When you buy a Camry what you've actually bought is a copy of a Camry in
steel and plastic. And yes, if someone pirated the Camry design and sold
steel and plastic copies of it, they would be heading for a head to head
with Toyota over the matter.



Where's that post, if you could please? I googled but did not find (sorry)
but it might be interesting to read - thanks.



That's a simplification. Be honest, it really is. What if some future EULA
of some "update" is actually illegal? Are you bound? No. Is spyware legal?
Trojans? Kill-switches? Nag software? When I first installed Windows I
didn't agree to the possibility of the software nagging me, not at all.

BTW - I didn't install WGA N on my computers - I unchecked the boxes where I
noticed them. Not because my copies is aquired from pirates - they are a mix
of reputable oem, reputable retail and Microsoft MSDN - because I know
they're not - but because I didn't like the idea of WGA N spying on me and
trojaning my copies of Windows.

But you do know that WGA N is architecture for a kill-switch / spyware / and
more .. and there's open talk that it will soon be mandatory?

I'm actually pro Windows and pro Microsoft. I applaud that they [Microsoft]
registered their disapproval with the Chinese government over censorship by
making their MSN's compliance clearly of the begrudging sort. But when they
are tripping to be offenders against freedom and rights themselves, I think
it is good to call them on it.

Anyway, 'have a nice one.

 

[deebs]

MICHAEL writ

I promise, my last post in this thread. (applause)

I leave you guys with this- Microsoft *lost* $1.26 billion in their Home
and Entertainment division. Yet, their profit for the year still rose
from $12.25 billion to $12.6 billion. Looks to me, Microsoft is
attacking the wrong division in finding ways to increase their already
staggering bottom line.

Yes, this seems to be the biggest concern to all anti-MS: that it is the
end user sufficiently motivated to part with their hard earned income to
buy MS products that seems to "offend" so many.

Consumer power is a great event prepared to be played down by many
(unfortunately)

ps - MS has no direct control over how individual consumers wish to
spend their income. The fact that they (consumers) do so seems to irk
so many people for so many reasons?

 

[Donald McDaniel]

Does Toyota require you make regular reports on the use of the car they sell
you?

Idiotic argument, since Toyota (and ALL other automanufacturers DO
"require you to make regular reports on the use of the car they sell
you IF you want their warranties to remain in effect.) In addition,
most OTHER manufacturers require you to keep the terms of their
warranties, if they are to keep their side of the bargain. Don't keep
the terms, no support. That's the way it is in business, and the
commercial software business is not excluded.

Now, don't keep the terms of your warranty, and they don't have to,
either. Same for Microsoft: They warranty their products (your EULA),
and provide updates (replacement parts). But ONLY if you keep the
terms of the warranty (your EULA). The Microsoft EULA includes a
proviso that they have the right to add or take away whatever is
necessary to keep the product usable.

Does Double Day publishing require your IP address every time you open
a book they've sold you? Do you owe it to Microsoft or anyone else to submit
to regular seaches, checks, snitch reports and possible seizures?

In the first place, I've never heard of Microsoft seizing a
home-user's product, in all their history. This is almost strictly a
matter of COMMERICIAL pirating of licenses of their products. It is
simply not cost-effective to make any such home seizures (unless, of
course, the "home user" is actually a "SOFTWARE PIRATE" operating out
of his home, in which case, he will get what he deserves. Maybe not
ENOUGH of what he deserves.) In addition, it would be a HUGE
public-relations tradgedy for Microsoft to seize the
Granny's-down-the-street" copy of Windows. I really don't believe
Microsoft is that stupid.

Are you
supposed to give up your freedom to WGA-N DRM DCMA and (soon AACS) and live
your life like a criminal on parole? Are the USA, Canada and Australia
supposed to be police state tyrannies or free countries? For the time being
you are still free to not care. But if things keep going the way they are
going you will not be free.

Well, if you ARE a criminal, you COULD be in PRISON, rather than "on
parole". But you know that solution to that, don't you? DON'T be a
CRIMINAL!!! Don't steal software. Don't steal music. Don't STEAL,
and the Law will not apply to you, and none of your "freedoms" will be
taken away from you. We certainly have no "rights" to ANOTHER
person's property under the rule of law.

The US Constitution tells us we have the "fundamental rights to Life,
Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness". I assure you, there is NO
happiness to be gotten by STEALING. In fact, it will only make one
UNHAPPY, in the end.

And the "Right to Liberty" does NOT give us the "right to commit
crimes". In fact, commiting crime only leads to LOSING that right,
not GAINING it.

In Canada now (where I reside), a guy is going to jail for opinions he put
on a website. And now they discussing actually censoring sites from reaching
Canadians a la what the totalitarian government in China is doing:

http://www.forward.com/articles/8042

Bet you didn't know that.

We're are already heading for an Orwellian nightmare because we keep being
oblivious and not caring. If we don't stand vigilant, then we loose our
freedoms because there are many plenties of people who would take them away.

So sure WGA N is just one little thing and you don't need to care - and
that's what they always have you believe.

And sure a person can't care about everything. It's overwelming. But when
you've come to realize something is wrong and you just let your rights and
freedoms get pushed over without a whimper? That's not responsible
citizenship.

And it's certainly not "responsible citizenship" to STEAL other's
property and work, is it? Of course not. This is why modern
democracys have checks and balances, courts of law, juries, and
recourse to higher authorities when a law becomes unlawful itself.

I certainly advise you Canadians to get a Bill of Rights including the
rights to a free press and free expression sometime soon.

Sounds like your government is usurping the power of the people there.

Our people stood up against King George and his cronies when they got
tired of their shit. Perhaps you should also. But of course, ya'll
are much too "liberal" to actually hold a gun to the government's
head, aren't you? You Canadians are just "too nice" for your own
good, it appears.

Let's face it, your government certainly isn't going to let go of your
throats unless you get a little "violent", are they? If they don't
want to let go, singing songs and quoting political slogans will never
make them let go of the reigns of power. In fact, that will only make
them tighten their grip around your throats even more. And the
tighter the grip, the more chances you have of becoming unconscious,
and soon, dead, dead, dead.

I advise you to come over to the U.S., and purchase one of our hated
"guns", and smuggle it into your "nice" Country. And keep it
well-oiled and not locked up. A locked-up gun is "locked up" even
from the adults, if you can't find the key.


==

Donald L McDaniel
Please Reply to the Original Thread.
========================================================

 

[Ground Cover]

Inline:



What warranty!? For the most part Microsoft doesn't that! So there's no
maintaining a warranty. Even in cases where there's a minimal one - say a
retail buy in Canada, it only lasts 90 days!



Microsoft doesn't offer free support. Basically the only thing Microsoft
offers is the equivalent of a recall - patches for glaring holes left from
*their* programming. If your own copy of Windows is damaged from viruses
that got in through one of the vulnerabilities Microsoft DOES NOT cover it.
You are on your own. There's no warranty.



There's basically no warranty, especially if Windows was installed OEM.



No they offer recall patches. If Ford finds that wiring in the steering
wheel can cause a fire they will recall the vehicles - all of them - where
the terms of any warranties are kept and where they are not - and they will
replace the faulty wiring. They do that to avoid law suits and / or because
they are required to do so by law.



Is Microsoft Windows a consumer product or a copyrightable piece of
intellectual work? Does it matter?



Yet they offer corporate copies with no need to activate? And by far the
majority of WGA N installs are into home computers. It is not strictly
business to business - it very much involves home users - checking on them,
getting their IP addresses, profiling their installations and databasing the
results etc etc. and who knows what else.



WGA N is a type of home seizure without a warrant. It takes control of some
of the behaviour of the computer and at the whim of Microsoft will start
nagging the customer. Next it will be manatory .. thereafter it will allow a
30 day grace period before kill and so on .. then after that we will have to
"subscribe" for updates etc. etc.



RIAA is already doing it! ... For the big record companies. And Microsoft is
in bed with those people. You should read some of the scheming that is
going on. The big companies are actually trying to have analogue technology
outlawed! Players by 2013 will have no longer be allowed to have analogue
outputs - they're calling it "analogue sunset".


http://www.aacsla.com/support/AACS_Interim_Adopter_Agreement_060215.pdf

See p 82 [the section is 1.7]

Analgoue sound no doubt will also be on the chopping block!

<sarcasm>But I suspect they've figured that's a tougher challenge - but,
hey, SONY and the rest have the resources to meets these challenges in the
ever evolving marketplace! Isn't it nice they are working so hard for you,
their customer? Why, they even will root-kit you for free.</sarcasm>

Notice that they've gotten the U.S. government to shut down analogue
broadcasting of television signals. I suspect the big media corporations
want complete digital control of all media. No rabbit ears on your TV for
you - you must pay a company for a digital signal! Imagine that - rabbit ear
police. Anyone found operating rabbit ears is in violation of the DMCA.
Stiff fines for first violation, jail time for any subsequent.

 

[MICHAEL]

I just couldn't resist, sorry.

I don't like the car analogy, it really isn't
the same- not even close.

Since it has been brought up, here's mine:

What Microsoft did with WGA and critical updates
would be similar to a car manufacturer issuing a
recall for bad brakes and while they were fixing those
brakes decided you needed new tires. Then put those
new tires on without your permission.

You have the right to know what is being done to your
car and why. The right to approve or disapprove of those
changes. By secretly putting beta software into a
critical update, Microsoft took away the user's right to
know and approve or disapprove. Regardless of what
one thinks of WGA- Critical Updates should be just that-
*critical* and *not* used as some mechanism to install
invasive beta spyware.



-Michael

Inline:



What warranty!? For the most part Microsoft doesn't that! So there's no
maintaining a warranty. Even in cases where there's a minimal one - say a
retail buy in Canada, it only lasts 90 days!



Microsoft doesn't offer free support. Basically the only thing Microsoft
offers is the equivalent of a recall - patches for glaring holes left from
*their* programming. If your own copy of Windows is damaged from viruses
that got in through one of the vulnerabilities Microsoft DOES NOT cover it.
You are on your own. There's no warranty.



There's basically no warranty, especially if Windows was installed OEM.



No they offer recall patches. If Ford finds that wiring in the steering
wheel can cause a fire they will recall the vehicles - all of them - where
the terms of any warranties are kept and where they are not - and they will
replace the faulty wiring. They do that to avoid law suits and / or because
they are required to do so by law.



Is Microsoft Windows a consumer product or a copyrightable piece of
intellectual work? Does it matter?



Yet they offer corporate copies with no need to activate? And by far the
majority of WGA N installs are into home computers. It is not strictly
business to business - it very much involves home users - checking on them,
getting their IP addresses, profiling their installations and databasing the
results etc etc. and who knows what else.



WGA N is a type of home seizure without a warrant. It takes control of some
of the behaviour of the computer and at the whim of Microsoft will start
nagging the customer. Next it will be manatory .. thereafter it will allow a
30 day grace period before kill and so on .. then after that we will have to
"subscribe" for updates etc. etc.



RIAA is already doing it! ... For the big record companies. And Microsoft is
in bed with those people. You should read some of the scheming that is
going on. The big companies are actually trying to have analogue technology
outlawed! Players by 2013 will have no longer be allowed to have analogue
outputs - they're calling it "analogue sunset".


http://www.aacsla.com/support/AACS_Interim_Adopter_Agreement_060215.pdf

See p 82 [the section is 1.7]

Analgoue sound no doubt will also be on the chopping block!

<sarcasm>But I suspect they've figured that's a tougher challenge - but,
hey, SONY and the rest have the resources to meets these challenges in the
ever evolving marketplace! Isn't it nice they are working so hard for you,
their customer? Why, they even will root-kit you for free.</sarcasm>

Notice that they've gotten the U.S. government to shut down analogue
broadcasting of television signals. I suspect the big media corporations
want complete digital control of all media. No rabbit ears on your TV for
you - you must pay a company for a digital signal! Imagine that - rabbit ear
police. Anyone found operating rabbit ears is in violation of the DMCA.
Stiff fines for first violation, jail time for any subsequent.

 

[Mark D. VandenBerg]

Where's that post, if you could please? I googled but did not find (sorry)
but it might be interesting to read - thanks.

You have to drill down a bit, but its there:

http://www.microsoft.com/communitie...6E527B0FBA67&lang=en&cr=US&sloc=en-us&m=1&p=1

 

[Mark D. VandenBerg]

That's a simplification. Be honest, it really is. What if some future EULA
of some "update" is actually illegal? Are you bound? No. Is spyware legal?
Trojans? Kill-switches? Nag software? When I first installed Windows I
didn't agree to the possibility of the software nagging me, not at all.

I guess, unlike most people who apparently keep their owners manuals sealed
in plastic for posterity, I actually read EULA's and other things before I
agree to them. So, if a future EULA contains something I am unwilling to
accept, then I will make a decision about it in the future. Postulating on
as yet unwritten future agreements serves no purpose.

 

[Ground Cover]

Yes, when one takes freedom of speech away from one person - even if their
opinion is considered vile, it's been taken away from everyone essentially.
I am one of those here against the "hate speech" laws and would like to see
them repealed.

Funny you mention guns. It would be nice [there's the Canadian in me], it
would be nice to have a society free of guns [some say "all guns", some say
"handguns"]. I think many Canadians want that. You know, as when even the
"Bobbies" had no guns in England. Handguns are really generally hated here.
Few people have them. Although we have higher crime rates than the USA, our
murder rate is only about a tenth. The guns Canadians tend to own are
"outdoorsman" type guns - shotguns and rifles.

I have a handgun - it's an historical/collector's piece of sorts - German
from WWII, but I lost it somewhere in the house. I deliberately hid it so
well somewhere that now I can't find it. No bullets anyway! I think I may
have put it in the rafters. I wanted to make sure it couldn't be found by
anyone and I over did it.

In the past five years the murder rate here has climbed. Immigrant gangs,
not well integrated into the Canadian culture are smuggling guns in from the
USA. There's been some terrible shootings in Toronto. We are not used to
this and the reaction is calls to ban the gun outright.

But the legal lockdown on handguns is already incredible. You must make a
poilce report if you decide to move one from one place to another other than
on a pre-registered route. There's all kinds of paper work and restrictions.
Like I said, in general we hate them and the idea of arming ourselves is
resisted.

Guns have been debated here quite a bit. The federal government brought in a
"gun registry". But with the election the new government has basically
canned the regisrty [it was a cost overrun disaster with poorly conceived
objectives]. Instead they plan to have a minimum sentence for any crime
commited where a gun is involved.

Nevertheless, your point is taken about tyranny. It's a bit of a dilema. On
one hand is a strong desire to be rid of handguns altogether and on the
other, like you say, making sure the government has a very healthy respect
for the rights of the citizenry.

In a way up to now, it's less in a Canadian's nature to want to own a gun.
The quick explanation is that we didn't throw off the British, we just sort
of grew into our own. So it's not as built into our ways and political
thinking. My explanation is: that it's the fact that the entire country is
freezing cold ... the stark reality of minus forty is the root of our whole
way of thinking and all our politics (in my opinion).

'Have a nice one.