Another WGA failure

M

MICHAEL

http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=110&tag=nl.e539

Posted by Ed Bott

I just experienced a Windows Genuine Advantage failure. Only it’s not a false positive, like
the horror stories I’ve been hearing for nearly two months now. No, this one was a false
negative. The whole story says a lot about how Microsoft is approaching the WGA issue.
A few weeks ago, I spoke to some of the folks on the WGA team and asked them to send me a
pirated version of Windows XP. According to Microsoft, 80 percent of the 60 million people who
have been nabbed by the WGA validation tool are running versions of Windows with stolen or
pirated volume license keys. These versions of Windows are supposed to be available only to
corporate customers and only as upgrades. Unlike retail versions, they don’t require
activation, which makes them an ideal target of pirates and bootleggers.

According to Microsoft, many of the people who end up with these “non-genuine” copies of
Windows are themselves victims. The unauthorized OS might have been installed by a repair shop,
or they might have purchased what they thought was a legitimate copy of Windows from an
unscrupulous reseller. I wanted to install a pirated copy so I could experience exactly what
these customers go through and report the results to you. I still can’t quite believe how
difficult it’s been. Here’s the story so far.

On July 18, Microsoft's WGA team promised to send me a disk with a product key from their
blocked list. It was supposed to arrive via overnight service, but it was never sent. After
several follow-up messages, I was assured on July 26 I would have something by the end of that
week. The package finally arrived the next week, on August 1. It contained a CD-R with a
handwritten label that read “Windows XP SP2 – VLK,” and a 25-character product key on a small
slip of paper.

Over the weekend, I hoisted the Jolly Roger, cleared a partition on a test machine, slid the CD
into the drive, and prepared to join the ranks of Windows pirates. Unfortunately, the product
key that Microsoft had sent me didn’t work. Instead of a smooth installation, I got an error
message: "The Product ID which you entered is invalid. Please try again." I fired off a request
for assistance to my contacts at Microsoft. Nearly 72 hours later, I still haven’t received a
response other than a note that confirms my message was forwarded to the correct person.

No problem, I thought. I’ll just do what any red-blooded pirate would do and Google for a
working product key. It took me about 15 minutes to find a web page containing five volume
license keys that had reportedly been posted on September 9 2004. Surely if I can find a leaked
VL key on a search engine, Microsoft can too, right? If these keys have been floating around
the Internet for two years, surely they’ve been tagged as stolen by Microsoft, and I’ll get a
WGA failure that I can show the world.

I restarted the installation using the VL media Microsoft had supplied me and entered one of
the bootleg keys I found. It worked. After installation completed, I set up an Internet
connection and downloaded a slew of updates, including the WGA Validation tool and the WGA
Notifications utility. I then restarted, fully expecting to see a series of stern messages
telling me I’d been busted.

Only that’s not how it worked out.

My bootleg key worked perfectly. I went back to Windows Update and downloaded a series of
Optional Updates and drivers that are only available to Genuine Windows users. I went over to
the Internet Explorer homepage and downloaded the latest beta of IE7, passing a validation test
twice – once on the download and again on the installation. And five minutes ago I went over to
the Windows Defender page – this is another free utility that’s only available to Genuine
Windows users – and the validation check waved me right through.

That’s where I stand right now. The folks who are running the WGA program are having troubles
getting the little stuff right, like putting a CD in the mail and proofreading the product key
they sent with it. They haven’t managed to identify a stolen product key that’s been floating
around the Internet for nearly two years. I'm reluctantly running a pirated version of Windows
and can't get caught no matter how hard I try.

But these same people want us to believe that the WGA software they’ve developed is nearly
foolproof. They claim that all but “a fraction of a percent” of those 60 million people who’ve
been denied access to Microsoft updates and downloads are guilty, guilty, guilty.

Right.


--
Michael
______
"The trouble ain't that there is too many fools,
but that the lightning ain't distributed right."
- Mark Twain
 
M

MICHAEL

Kerry Brown said:
<snipped>

You posted this in a Vista newsgroup because - ___________________

Because I can.


--
Michael
______
"The trouble ain't that there is too many fools,
but that the lightning ain't distributed right."
- Mark Twain
 
C

Chad Harris

The security protections against WGA that you provided previously and the
ways to remove it are important protections for your PC. Another effective
deterrent but one that takes much longer and costs more is to prevent MSFT
from doing it and collect money from them for the laws they have violated in
implementing it.

There are at least two suits in federal court. I'll have to pull their
motions to see if their has been any action on motions to certify them as
a class action.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/275780_msftsuit29.html

http://news.zdnet.com/2100-3513_22-6090651.html

In the last couple months, Brad Smith and Nancy Anderson, the daddy and
mommy of the legal aspects of WGA. General Counsel and Associate General
Counsel at MSFT have cost the company nearly a billion dollars with their
ineptitude.

A lawsuit against WGA has been filed in Seattle and LA in federal district
courts.

"In this most recent lawsuit, the parties allege Microsoft violated the
Computer Fraud and Abuse Act, the Consumer Protection Act, the Computer
Spyware Act, and also engaged in intentional misrepresentation of the
software program."

CH
 
K

Kerry Brown

I don't mind you posting criticism of WGA. It's a very important topic that
needs to be talked about. The XP newsgroups are a better forum, at least
until Microsoft reveals their plans for WGA in Vista. The article you linked
to is about WGA as it pertains to XP.
 
M

MICHAEL

WGA is already built into Vista.

http://news.com.com/Vista+wont+show+fancy+side+to+pirates/2100-1016_3-6060700.html
Windows Vista plans to offer you spiffy new graphics, as long as you're not a pirate.

http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/winvista_ff_basic_ux.asp

Fun Fact: Curiously, Windows Vista Basic is part of Microsoft's fight against software piracy.
Its Windows Genuine Advantage (WGA) service, which will be required on Windows Vista, will
check to ensure that your copy of Windows is valid. If it is not, the Windows Aero interface
will not be enabled, and the user will be forced to use Windows Vista Basic instead. So there
you have it: Windows Vista Basic is a punishment.


-Michael
 
C

Chad Harris

I couldn't disagree more Kerry. It's hard to separate MSFT policies from a
group on any flavor of Windows when they simpact it so systemically and it
should not be done.

BTW Kerry I haven't seen you respond to my Vista OEM vs. Retail Media Fix No
Boot Challenge.

I had several years of the XP groups. I think I have XP fairly understood.
I think Vista needs a ton of work and 6 months of delay and I fear it will
be a huge disaster for MSFT if they don't wake up and smell the coffee off
the Redmond campus. Sinofsky needs to go door to door and sit down and
listen to a few users of Vista or learn how to use Vista better himself.

WGA is very much a part of the Vista picture. It has been ramped up for
Vista in fact and because of the anticipation of Vista's wide sales with the
very disingenous policy of MSFT that they care about customers by leaving
all XP and all Vista customers of OEM pre installed boxes high and dry for
recovery of a no boot Vista if they have to do a repair install in the case
of XP or use Win RE (Startup Repair, etc.) which btw is much less effective
percent wise despite VSS in System Restore than a Repair Install is for XP.

If you've been reading, MSFT has revealed much of WGA for Vista. It's being
sued in two class action law suits that will get traction and force them to
mod it or discontinue it. It is easily uninstalled (the spy component).






Microsoft to Tighten the Genuine Advantage Screws
By Mary Jo Foley
August 9, 2006


http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,2001219,00.asp

Ed Bott Author of Windows Vista Insisde Out (A million copies presold due in
December)
http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=110

Another WGA failure

August 8, 2006
Another WGA failure
Posted by Ed Bott @ 7:34 am

Digg This!

[Update 10-August: It took a few days, but I'm now officially a pirate.
Don't miss the follow-up post here along with the accompanying image gallery
that shows the WGA process in action.]

I just experienced a Windows Genuine Advantage failure. Only it’s not a
false positive, like the horror stories I’ve been hearing for nearly two
months now. No, this one was a false negative. The whole story says a lot
about how Microsoft is approaching the WGA issue.

A few weeks ago, I spoke to some of the folks on the WGA team and asked them
to send me a pirated version of Windows XP. I'm reluctantly running a
pirated version of Windows and can't get caught no matter how hard I try.
According to Microsoft, 80 percent of the 60 million people who have been
nabbed by the WGA validation tool are running versions of Windows with
stolen or pirated volume license keys. These versions of Windows are
supposed to be available only to corporate customers and only as upgrades.
Unlike retail versions, they don’t require activation, which makes them an
ideal target of pirates and bootleggers.

According to Microsoft, many of the people who end up with these
“non-genuine” copies of Windows are themselves victims. The unauthorized OS
might have been installed by a repair shop, or they might have purchased
what they thought was a legitimate copy of Windows from an unscrupulous
reseller. I wanted to install a pirated copy so I could experience exactly
what these customers go through and report the results to you. I still can’t
quite believe how difficult it’s been. Here’s the story so far.

On July 18, Microsoft's WGA team promised to send me a disk with a product
key from their blocked list. It was supposed to arrive via overnight
service, but it was never sent. After several follow-up messages, I was
assured on July 26 I would have something by the end of that week. The
package finally arrived the next week, on August 1. It contained a CD-R with
a handwritten label that read “Windows XP SP2 – VLK,” and a 25-character
product key on a small slip of paper.

Over the weekend, I hoisted the Jolly Roger, cleared a partition on a test
machine, slid the CD into the drive, and prepared to join the ranks of
Windows pirates. Unfortunately, the product key that Microsoft had sent me
didn’t work. Instead of a smooth installation, I got an error message: "The
Product ID which you entered is invalid. Please try again." I fired off a
request for assistance to my contacts at Microsoft. Nearly 72 hours later, I
still haven’t received a response other than a note that confirms my message
was forwarded to the correct person.

No problem, I thought. I’ll just do what any red-blooded pirate would do and
Google for a working product key. It took me about 15 minutes to find a web
page containing five volume license keys that had reportedly been posted on
September 9 2004. Surely if I can find a leaked VL key on a search engine,
Microsoft can too, right? If these keys have been floating around the
Internet for two years, surely they’ve been tagged as stolen by Microsoft,
and I’ll get a WGA failure that I can show the world.

I restarted the installation using the VL media Microsoft had supplied me
and entered one of the bootleg keys I found. It worked. After installation
completed, I set up an Internet connection and downloaded a slew of updates,
including the WGA Validation tool and the WGA Notifications utility. I then
restarted, fully expecting to see a series of stern messages telling me I’d
been busted.

Only that’s not how it worked out.

My bootleg key worked perfectly. I went back to Windows Update and
downloaded a series of Optional Updates and drivers that are only available
to Genuine Windows users. I went over to the Internet Explorer homepage and
downloaded the latest beta of IE7, passing a validation test twice – once on
the download and again on the installation. And five minutes ago I went over
to the Windows Defender page – this is another free utility that’s only
available to Genuine Windows users – and the validation check waved me right
through.

That’s where I stand right now. The folks who are running the WGA program
are having troubles getting the little stuff right, like putting a CD in the
mail and proofreading the product key they sent with it. They haven’t
managed to identify a stolen product key that’s been floating around the
Internet for nearly two years. I'm reluctantly running a pirated version of
Windows and can't get caught no matter how hard I try.

But these same people want us to believe that the WGA software they’ve
developed is nearly foolproof. They claim that all but “a fraction of a
percent” of those 60 million people who’ve been denied access to Microsoft
updates and downloads are guilty, guilty, guilty.

Right.

CH
 
C

Chad Harris

Thataboy Michael.

CH

MICHAEL said:
WGA is already built into Vista.

http://news.com.com/Vista+wont+show+fancy+side+to+pirates/2100-1016_3-6060700.html
Windows Vista plans to offer you spiffy new graphics, as long as you're
not a pirate.

http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/winvista_ff_basic_ux.asp

Fun Fact: Curiously, Windows Vista Basic is part of Microsoft's fight
against software piracy. Its Windows Genuine Advantage (WGA) service,
which will be required on Windows Vista, will check to ensure that your
copy of Windows is valid. If it is not, the Windows Aero interface will
not be enabled, and the user will be forced to use Windows Vista Basic
instead. So there you have it: Windows Vista Basic is a punishment.


-Michael
 
K

Kerry Brown

Chad said:
I couldn't disagree more Kerry. It's hard to separate MSFT policies
from a group on any flavor of Windows when they simpact it so
systemically and it should not be done.

BTW Kerry I haven't seen you respond to my Vista OEM vs. Retail Media
Fix No Boot Challenge.

I haven't responded because I agree with you about the named OEM vs Retail
vs generic OEM at least with XP. I am a small system builder and consultant.
I spend a lot of time repairing all versions of Windows. The recovery
partition scheme is a joke as far as repairing a computer is concerned.
Personally I think the main reason this delivery method became popular is to
cut support costs for the large OEMs. After a minute or two of phone time
they can tell the customer to reboot into recovery mode. I have no idea what
the OEM Vista program will be like from my perspective as a small system
builder so I can't comment on Vista OEM vs Vista retail media. Once I see
the actual OEM media I will let you know what I think.
 
K

Kerry Brown

MICHAEL said:
WGA is already built into Vista.

http://news.com.com/Vista+wont+show+fancy+side+to+pirates/2100-1016_3-6060700.html
Windows Vista plans to offer you spiffy new graphics, as long as
you're not a pirate.
http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/winvista_ff_basic_ux.asp

Fun Fact: Curiously, Windows Vista Basic is part of Microsoft's fight
against software piracy. Its Windows Genuine Advantage (WGA) service,
which will be required on Windows Vista, will check to ensure that
your copy of Windows is valid. If it is not, the Windows Aero
interface will not be enabled, and the user will be forced to use
Windows Vista Basic instead. So there you have it: Windows Vista
Basic is a punishment.

The only official word I've seen from Microsoft is that yes WGA is in Vista
and is more tightly integrated than with XP. I am sure that it will be a
controversial topic once the actual workings of it are known. If you want to
talk about WGA in Vista that's fine and appropriate for this newsgroup.
Until we get more facts it'll mostly be a waste of time but probably more
entertaining than people whining about wanting a new build.I n the mean time
the article you mentioned in your first post had nothing to do with Vista.
Usenet is a public place so you are free to post whatever you want, on or
off topic. I was merely making a sarcastic comment about an off topic post.
 
C

Chad Harris

I wonder if Associate General Counsel of MSFT Nancy Anderson thinks two
federal law suits against WGA about to be certified class are sarcastic
comments?

She and her homie Brad Smith did a great job hemorrhaging close to a billion
with European Union fines.

CH
 
C

Chad Harris

I wish had a nickle Kerry for every frustrating time I've tried to use
every resource possible to help someone recover XP with what OEM Named
Partners give them. This is a different world from the concientious
terrific job that system builders like you are in.

I'm not a system builder, but I know enough of them to have profound respect
for what they do, what they know, and how much they care about quality,
hardware, software, and getting their customers in good shape.

CH
 
K

Kerry Brown

In some cases you can use a generic OEM CD with a named OEM key for a repair
install. It won't work with a clean install. It may also be a future problem
with WGA but presently doesn't seem to cause any WGA problems.
 
K

Kerry Brown

I would be surprised if the lawsuits do anything other than make some
lawyers either money or reputation. I haven't heard of any documented false
positives that were real that weren't promptly fixed by Microsoft. If the
lawsuits are trying to take on the EULA then I hope the lawyers have a lot
of money. There are too many companies with a lot at stake regarding EULAs
that will drag out the process for many years hoping the other side
eventually gives up. I don't know American law but I think that interested
parties can also file to be heard for either side. If EULAs are involved I
think their will be a lot of interest both for and against. Lawsuits won't
stop or hinder WGA. People voting with their pocket books will get the
biggest results. Public opinion and continuing bad press may also make a
difference.
 
C

Chad Harris

You're quite right and as to law suits MSFT will probably defend those-- a
lot depends simply on how much the law clerk and the judge can understand.
Some of them like anyone else are very savvy and others aren't. Canadian
law and law here are similar in discovery, both sides heard at least in
theory. My friend taught in Canada for a year, and he loved the people and
the schools, then he went to Harvard law.

I sure understand them wanting to stem piracy, but I don't think WGA needs
to be implemented the way it is.

You are of course right Kerry about generic OEM CDs, but the problem with
that is they are simply extremely rarely shipped.

CH
 

Ask a Question

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

You'll need to choose a username for the site, which only take a couple of moments. After that, you can post your question and our members will help you out.

Ask a Question

Top