"Paradoxical" Windows USB Drivers Problem

D

Dick K

The Problem

Desktop with Foxconn 946 7MA series motherboard running
XP MCE 2005 SP3 with all critical updates. Two HDDs, C:
and D:, D: solely for back-up.

Problem - several USB devices have failed, apparently
because installed Windows USB drivers have got lost and
are unavailable for reinstallation.

In more detail, the system was running OK when I:

1. Rebooted (to complete removal of a program via
Control Panel).

2. Found USB based cordless keyboard (KB) and mouse dead
(both used Windows USB drivers).

3. Booted MS-DOS and restored C: from recent clone. KB
and mouse worked normally. (Restoration using Norton
Ghost 2003 loaded from diskette).

4. Rebooted XP - KB and mouse again dead.

5. Connected wired (PS2) KB and mouse. Both worked. USB
headset dead - Device Manager reported "The drivers for
this device are not installed. (Code 28)". Install
Wizard couldn't find the (Windows) drivers. USB external
hard drive still worked (Windows drivers). Also USB
devices (printer, scanner) with manufacturers' drivers
still OK.

This seems paradoxical because the problem:

1. Can't be hardware related - KB and mouse worked
normally under MS-DOS.

2. Can't be software related - known good environment
restored.


What Next?

Nothing out of the ordinary in Event Logs. CHKDSK reported
C: as clean. Microsoft Windows Memory Diagnostic completed
27 passes with no errors. SFC /SCANNOW repeatedly asked
for SP3 installation CD which I don't have (only PC Angel
hidden recovery partition and OEM recovery CDs, both SP2).
Copied C:\I386 to CD and reran SFC - fewer requests for
installation CD but no dice on USB problems and no way of
finding out which files were thought to be missing (SFC
used to give false reports with XP MCE anyway) .

So: Revert to an earlier clone? Flatten the system and
rebuild? Junk it? Some clever fix?

Dead horses and flogging come to mind but I'll continue to
investigate and would be grateful for any helpful advice.
 
T

Twayne

Dick said:
The Problem

Desktop with Foxconn 946 7MA series motherboard running
XP MCE 2005 SP3 with all critical updates. Two HDDs, C:
and D:, D: solely for back-up.

Problem - several USB devices have failed, apparently
because installed Windows USB drivers have got lost and
are unavailable for reinstallation.

In more detail, the system was running OK when I:

1. Rebooted (to complete removal of a program via
Control Panel).

2. Found USB based cordless keyboard (KB) and mouse dead
(both used Windows USB drivers).

3. Booted MS-DOS and restored C: from recent clone. KB
and mouse worked normally. (Restoration using Norton
Ghost 2003 loaded from diskette).

4. Rebooted XP - KB and mouse again dead.

5. Connected wired (PS2) KB and mouse. Both worked. USB
headset dead - Device Manager reported "The drivers for
this device are not installed. (Code 28)". Install
Wizard couldn't find the (Windows) drivers. USB external
hard drive still worked (Windows drivers). Also USB
devices (printer, scanner) with manufacturers' drivers
still OK.

This seems paradoxical because the problem:

1. Can't be hardware related - KB and mouse worked
normally under MS-DOS.

2. Can't be software related - known good environment
restored.


What Next?

Nothing out of the ordinary in Event Logs. CHKDSK reported
C: as clean. Microsoft Windows Memory Diagnostic completed
27 passes with no errors. SFC /SCANNOW repeatedly asked
for SP3 installation CD which I don't have (only PC Angel
hidden recovery partition and OEM recovery CDs, both SP2).
Copied C:\I386 to CD and reran SFC - fewer requests for
installation CD but no dice on USB problems and no way of
finding out which files were thought to be missing (SFC
used to give false reports with XP MCE anyway) .

So: Revert to an earlier clone? Flatten the system and
rebuild? Junk it? Some clever fix?

Dead horses and flogging come to mind but I'll continue to
investigate and would be grateful for any helpful advice.

Don't junk it quite yet. I agree with 1. above that it's likely not
hardware.
However, I disagree with 2. since you're comparing apples & oranges
there. Entirely different software paths, processes & procedures come
into play.
Sounds like it just borked the OS settings somewhere. In other
words, serious file corruption. Did you do the uninstall properly using
Add/Remove or the program's own uninstall program?

MCE has always been a problem IME with a borked computer. But, just
remember: MCE is actually XP Pro first, with the MCE "over it", sort of
a shell. So, they're really two entirely different entities.

Have a look thru the BIOS settings to see if there's anything there that
might account for the problems. Probably not, but ... look anyway.

Event Viewer: Any errors there that are useful hints?

Be sure to try different USB ports. One can go bad and not affect the
others.

Device Manager: All OK there w/r to USB controllers & drivers?
If it says there are no drivers, update/reinstall the drivers.
Uninstall/restart & let P&P put things back. Have it check for New
Hardware; it might find something.

Try a Repair Install.

No XP etc. disks?
Restore system to manufacturer settings using instructions provided when
you got the computer, using the hidden restore partition/s.

Have XP, drivers, MCE etc. disks?
Flatten the system and rebuild it, right from the git-go. Since it's
MCE, if you want to keep it MCE, be sure to follow the mfr's
instructions or you may end up losing any on-disk restoration
programs/files. OTHERwise, delete/recreate partitions, & go from there
but realize what you might be losing. Which, IMO is no big deal if you
have all the DVDs and CDs you need.

If this is a Dell, their MCE stuff is all online and downloadable as
long as you have your TAG number from the machine label. If something
you built, it's anybody's guess; you're the one knows the details. Don't
know anything about other brands.

HTH,

Twayne
 
D

Dick K

philo said:
Some USB setting in the bios must have changed I'd guess

have a look there or reset bios to defaults

Many thanks for the suggestion. Unfortunately the USB
settings in the BIOS look perfectly OK:

USB 1.0 Controller [Enabled]
USB 2.0 Controller [Enabled]
USB Operation Mode [Full/Low Speed] (Auto-decide mode)
USB Keyboard Function [Enabled] (Legacy Support)
USB Mouse Function [Enabled] (Legacy Support)
 
D

Dick K

Thank you for a comprehensive review of the possibilities.
Made me think things through again which has to be good.
Don't junk it quite yet. I agree with 1. above that it's likely not
hardware.
However, I disagree with 2. since you're comparing apples & oranges
there. Entirely different software paths, processes & procedures come
into play.

Having restored a clone of C: I should have reverted to the
exact software environment which previously functioned correctly.
Sounds like it just borked the OS settings somewhere. In other
words, serious file corruption. Did you do the uninstall properly using
Add/Remove or the program's own uninstall program?

You got me - very senior moment there. I actually used Revo
Uninstaller which in turn used the program's own uninstall
program. However, even if that caused problems, they should
have gone away when I restored the earlier clone of C:.
MCE has always been a problem IME with a borked computer. But, just
remember: MCE is actually XP Pro first, with the MCE "over it", sort of
a shell. So, they're really two entirely different entities.

Have a look thru the BIOS settings to see if there's anything there that
might account for the problems. Probably not, but ... look anyway.

No dice - see reply to philo.
Event Viewer: Any errors there that are useful hints?

Unhappily, no.
Be sure to try different USB ports. One can go bad and not affect the
others.

Tried that with the headset. No luck. Didn't think of trying it
with the KB/mouse before swapping them out. USB port for KB/mouse
worked OK under MS-DOS.
Device Manager: All OK there w/r to USB controllers & drivers?
If it says there are no drivers, update/reinstall the drivers.

That's one of the symptoms, Device Manager says "no drivers" and
can't find them to reinstall.
Uninstall/restart & let P&P put things back. Have it check for New
Hardware; it might find something.

Try a Repair Install.

No XP etc. disks?
Restore system to manufacturer settings using instructions provided when
you got the computer, using the hidden restore partition/s.

Have XP, drivers, MCE etc. disks?

No, SP2 only, no.
Flatten the system and rebuild it, right from the git-go. Since it's
MCE, if you want to keep it MCE, be sure to follow the mfr's
instructions or you may end up losing any on-disk restoration
programs/files. OTHERwise, delete/recreate partitions, & go from there
but realize what you might be losing. Which, IMO is no big deal if you
have all the DVDs and CDs you need.

I could go back to an "as sold" condition using PC Angel or
to a very early clone. Either would be a last resort because
of the effort required to rebuild, though I do have everything
necessary for that. I'd contemplate replacing a three plus year
old system if I had to rebuild anyway. I was hoping for a fix.
If this is a Dell, their MCE stuff is all online and downloadable as
long as you have your TAG number from the machine label. If something
you built, it's anybody's guess; you're the one knows the details. Don't
know anything about other brands.

It's actually an Evesham Solar MX100.
 
D

Dick K

Rereading my response I realise a couple of errata are
called for:

All OK. The comment below referred to the headset.
That's one of the symptoms, Device Manager says "no drivers" and
can't find them to reinstall.

Tried that. No good.
 
E

Elmo

ignorancenotbliss said:
Same exact thing happened to me. Four USB readers w/no drivers and no
way to access them. I should have _known_ something was askew when I tried
to install a new(er) Microsoft Laser mouse to no avail.

So it seems certain exe programs are not running and not from the
installation cd for the mouse.
What do I do?
I have an HP with SP3.

Dick how did you end up finally solving your problem?

Here are a few things to try:

XP asks for USB drivers.
http://www.uwe-sieber.de/usbtrouble_e.html#xp_asks_for_drivers

USB Help site.
http://www.usbman.com/WinME USB Guide.htm

General USB troubleshooting in Windows XP
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/310575

Troubleshooting for USB drives
http://www.uwe-sieber.de/usbtrouble_e.html
http://www.everythingusb.com/aboutus/

"Unable to Start a Program with an .exe File Extension"
http://windowsxp.mvps.org/exefile.htm
 
D

Dick K

ignorancenotbliss said:
same exact thing happened to me. Four USB readers w/no drivers and no
way to access them. i should have know something was askew when i tried
to install a new(er) microsoft Laser mouse to no avail

So it seems certain exe programs are not running and even not from the
installation cd for the mouse
what do i do?
i have an HP with SP3.

Dick how did u end up f9inally solving ur problem?

I'm afraid the problem is still unresolved and
I shan't be able to spend much more time on it
until the weekend. Other quirks are becoming
evident - a BSOD today, loss of my PS2 mouse
for a period and inconsistent responses to
attempts to reinstate the headset. I'll have
a look at Elmo's suggestions but I've pretty
much resigned myself to attempting a format and
rebuild and, if that fails, junking the system.

Sorry I can't be more hopeful or helpful.
 
D

Dick K

Elmo said:
Here are a few things to try:

XP asks for USB drivers.
http://www.uwe-sieber.de/usbtrouble_e.html#xp_asks_for_drivers

USB Help site.
http://www.usbman.com/WinME USB Guide.htm

General USB troubleshooting in Windows XP
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/310575

Troubleshooting for USB drives
http://www.uwe-sieber.de/usbtrouble_e.html
http://www.everythingusb.com/aboutus/

"Unable to Start a Program with an .exe File Extension"
http://windowsxp.mvps.org/exefile.htm

Many thanks for your suggestions which I'll look at
at in a day or two. As implied in my response to
ignorancenotbliss I'm starting to suspect that
the problems are too extensive for a simple fix to
work and I'm contemplating a format and rebuild
attempt as a last resort.
 
D

Dick K

Elmo said:
Here are a few things to try:

XP asks for USB drivers.
http://www.uwe-sieber.de/usbtrouble_e.html#xp_asks_for_drivers

USB Help site.
http://www.usbman.com/WinME USB Guide.htm

General USB troubleshooting in Windows XP
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/310575

Troubleshooting for USB drives
http://www.uwe-sieber.de/usbtrouble_e.html
http://www.everythingusb.com/aboutus/

"Unable to Start a Program with an .exe File Extension"
http://windowsxp.mvps.org/exefile.htm

My registry was indeed corrupt in the manner described
in the first of your links and the fix worked perfectly
for the USB problem. Now I'm hoping that the other
instabilities I've seen have gone away as well. Time
will tell.

Again, many thanks.
 
E

Elmo

Dick said:
My registry was indeed corrupt in the manner described
in the first of your links and the fix worked perfectly
for the USB problem. Now I'm hoping that the other
instabilities I've seen have gone away as well. Time
will tell.

Again, many thanks.

That's great news! Thanks for reporting back.
 

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