P4P800-E memory and processor speed

[KenV]

I just replaced a faulty P4B533 with a P4P800-E Deluxe board, but have kept
the 3 year old retail Intel P4 2ghz 400 FSB processor. I have 2 identical
500mb Crucial DDR PC2700 333mhz memory chips in the blue slots.

So--I assume that with the processor I have, I can't take advantage of the
P4B533 speed. Would I see a significant difference in performance going up
from a 400 FSB processor to a 533mhz processor? Is it worth $120 or so to do
so?

Just looking for suggestions. Thanks very much.

Ken

 

[Bill Smith]

For that price, you may be able to find a "c" labelled or an 800fsb
proc... a=400, b=533, c=800...). I would check around to see if you
can find a northwood 2.8c @800mhz fsb...

Depending on the die quality of your current cpu, you may also want to
try to run it @ 533mhz fsb (or somewhere close to that...). That may
also be possible...

There were still "b" chips available (533fsb) at some vendors for
around that price. Most I saw were 2.4ghz. I think it would be worth
it...

 

[KenV]

Bill,

Thanks very much for your answer.

I've found some 533's for about $120 but the 800's seem to go for about
$180-200, other than some used processors on Ebay.

I did try increasing the speed through the BIOS but the computer hung.

Ken

 

[Bill Smith]

I actually own that board as well and I'm running a "2.8c"
northwood (800mhz / fsb) at 3.15 g/hz. Of course, I am also using top
tier memory at relaxed timings, but this gives you some idea of the
potential. I game hard and this config gives me no problems, But I've
also done extensive modding for airflow and replaced the cpu heatsink
with the "Thermalright XP-120".
If your quite firm on that price point, even a northwood core @ 533
mhz will be worth that upgrade, try to find the fastest one (they
topped out at 2.8 mhz). The cpu will have the biggest impact on your
overall performance and the northwood core should allow you at least
+10% overhead...I cannot recommend the prescott's(e) unless your ready
for a few more challenges, but there maybe more of those available.

 

[KenV]

Bill,

Yes, it is very difficult to find a Northpoint 2.8c.

I wonder, if you don't overclock the 2.8c, would the original Intel retail
heatsink and fan that came with the P2.0 -400 be sufficient to run the
Northwood 2.8c? I know that the Prescotts run very hot, but is the same true
for the Northwoods?.

Ken

 

[Glen]

Northwoods don't run as hot as Prescotts, but they still generate lots
of heat. I definitely would _not_ use Intel's older HSFs with one.

Spend the ten or twenty bucks on eBay or wherever for a decent
Northwood cooler. Even the stock HSF Intel included with their
NW retail boxes is excellent, and I've seen these sell for as little
as $5.

 

[Bill Smith]

Yes, my 2.8c came with the exact same cpu cooler as the 2.4b chips I
have for my kids...they are all northwood cores...

I was overclocking with the stock cooler and even then, my temps were
in very tollerable measurements. I actually don't even need this
thermalright, but it should prolonge the cpu life by keeping the cpu
temps roughly 10-12 degrees cooler...which it does...

Typically, I've seen that northwood core chips do not run as hot as
prescott, this is true. However, between the 2.4b chips I mentioned
earlier, one runs at least 6 degree's warmer than the other. So there
will be some variation no matter what you choose. I wouldn't hesitate
to say that the "cooler" one would be a great candidate for some
"extra fsb" tweaking...if my son would let me...
;-)

 

[Bill Smith]

I agree, even test results prove the stock coolers with retail
northwood cpu's are tough to beat...minimal gains at best.

However, during overclock and running peak mode (ie: gaming...), this
is where a quality hsf will earn it's mark...
cheers,

 

[KenV]

Glen and Bill,

I have found two versions of the 2.8c offered on Ebay, one a SL6Z5 with an
M0 core and a much cheaper SL6WJ with a D1 core. They are both labeled as
Northwoods. Is there some advantage of one over the other? These
distinctions are way beyond my technical expertise.

BTW, I am not a gamer and haven't OC'ed much, so maybe I'm not going to see
that much difference between the 2.0 400 FSB and a 2.8 800FSB, anyway.

Ken

 

[Glen]

Glen and Bill,

I have found two versions of the 2.8c offered on Ebay, one a SL6Z5 with an
M0 core and a much cheaper SL6WJ with a D1 core. They are both labeled as
Northwoods. Is there some advantage of one over the other? These
distinctions are way beyond my technical expertise.

The M0 Northwoods are built on the same core as the P4 Extreme
Editions (only without the EE's 2MB L3 cache). These chips are
known to be better overclockers and run at slightly lower voltage/
temps than the D1 stepping P4's, although the D1's aren't a slouch
by any means. E.g. my main system uses a 3GHz P4, D1 stepping,
it runs rock solid at 3.75GHz (250FSB 1:1), at stock voltage, idle
temps run 39-40C and load temps 53-55C.

Whether the cost difference is worth it is a judgment call, but unless
you'll be doing some extreme overclocking I wouldn't pay much
more for an M0. It's not any faster at a given speed than a D1.

 

[KenV]

Glen,

Again, thanks for your most lucid and informative discussion.

Ken

 

[KenV]

Glen and Bill,

Here is a preliminary followup.

Your input was invaluable. I finally decided that to spend $120-140 on Ebay
for an OEM 2.8c processor without HSF just didn´t make sense. I found a
boxed 2.8c with an M0 core and an Intel HSF with a 3 year Intel warranty for
$172 and bought it. I´ll let you know...

Thanks again,

Ken

The M0 Northwoods are built on the same core as the P4 Extreme
Editions (only without the EE's 2MB L3 cache). These chips are
known to be better overclockers and run at slightly lower voltage/
temps than the D1 stepping P4's, although the D1's aren't a slouch
by any means. E.g. my main system uses a 3GHz P4, D1 stepping,
it runs rock solid at 3.75GHz (250FSB 1:1), at stock voltage, idle
temps run 39-40C and load temps 53-55C.

Whether the cost difference is worth it is a judgment call, but unless
you'll be doing some extreme overclocking I wouldn't pay much
more for an M0. It's not any faster at a given speed than a D1.

 

[Bill Smith]

You won't be disapointed. You will notice it and it will run
everything that you need it too. I have an AGP- ATI X850XT and with my
2.8c running at just over 3100mhz, I can run HL2 at full options with
very descent frame rates...plus, at least you have the right board
should you desire treading into the extra capabilities of that
setup...
Cheers,

 

[KenV]

Bill,

I'm supposed to get the P4 Tuesday.

Wow, that's some video card, BTW!

I've got an old Radeon 7500 AGP and am thinking of replacing it with a 9550 AGP
which I guess is the latest and greatest of the low-end ATIs. Think I would
notice the difference with the video card upgrade? How would HL2 run on that
one?

Ken

 

[Bill Smith]

I would not recommend anything lower than the ATI9600 series. You
can find a great buy on an "XT" or "pro" version and they are
Direct-X9 capable, right out of the box. Anything lower is only DX8
capable. If your even thinking of HL2 and happiness, Then you should
consider the 9800XT(double the pipes of the 9600...) or the pro
version as a starting point. To run "full" eye candy with "FPS" glee,
the X800 series is where you need to look...(not the x800xl !).
In the Nvidia camp, the 5700fx is the DX9 starting point for that
feature. Again, for HL2 + happiness, start somewhere in the 6000GT
series and for fps+glee, the 6800GT is where you need to be.
My son has my older 5900XT (nvidia's budget FX line, unlike
ATI's...where XT means TOP DOG...) and he gets very respectable frames
at quality settings.
Watch for sales on these items during boxing week, I've already
seen prices at "1/3" of what they were just 6 months ago!!!
FYI

 

[KenV]

Bill,

Thanks for the very helpful info.

I've read where the ATI 9550 is sort of a ramped down version of the 9600:
"Another RV360 chip followed in early 2004, the 9550, which was a 9600 with a
lower core clock (though an identical memory clock and bus width)."
http://www.answers.com/topic/radeon I don't understand completely what the lower
core clock does in terms of performance. And ATI says the 9550 supports Directx
9.0.

That said, I'm probably not enough of a gamer to warrant the extra cost, unless
I can find some real bargains as you suggest. When you say "boxing week" does
that mean you are from "across the Pond"?

Ken

 

[Bill Smith]

Sounds like your right on. It makes sense what you have described
and if it says that on the box (supported DX9), than that card is
probably just a lower clocked 9600...haven't looked into that one
personally...
Not sure what "Pond" you are referring, but the pond in my town
only has one bridge accross it and it's located in the Okanagan, B.C.
Canada.
;-)

 

[KenV]

Bill,

I figured you might be from the UK considering they celebrate "Boxing Day"
on the 26th. I guess Canada does, too. The Pond was the Atlantic as my
British next door neighbor calls it.

Sounds nice to be in BC. I'm in Illinois and the winter has been cold so
far.

Ken