P4C800-E hanging after 15mins non activity

[Bryce Preston]

Have just updated my machine with a P4C800-E deluxe board and the following
P4 3gig prescott
1gig dual channel memory
Radeon 9800 pro
2 maxtor drives connected to the ata133 connector but not in Raid formation
Creative audigy soundcard
netgear network card which supports a second machine

All works well when I am using the machine but when I walk away it hangs
after 15 mins
I have watched it 3 times twice with 2 different screen savers and once with
none
after 15 min screen freezes with furious disc activity then restarts more
disc activity then freezes
screen does not go blank!!!

Nothing other than a reset will start it again.

The only way I can stop it from happening is to put it into sleep mode then
it happily wakes up even hours afterwards

On another occasions I left it running overnight transcoding a film and it
was fine.

I have tried all 3 settings for suspend mode in Bios in the power menu

I have had power management enabled and disabled
currently I have suspend as s1 only and APM as enabled, video and hard disc
suspend disabled
with windows power setting as always on.

I had to do a repair reinstall of windows XP when I first started the
computer and to eliminate
the graphics card or drivers I tried it with an Nvidia Geforce TI 500 - same
result

I have had some help from asus but they mention sata drives and an older
Bios as possible problems
I do not have sata drives and bios is the very latest
Also XP is bang upto date with patches

I recognise it is not a serious problem although I think that if I leave it
only downloading something from
the internet it hangs but need to check this out further.

I await help from Asus but would welcome any thoughts you might have as to a
possible solution or things to try.

Regards

 

[Paul]

Have just updated my machine with a P4C800-E deluxe board and the following
P4 3gig prescott
1gig dual channel memory
Radeon 9800 pro
2 maxtor drives connected to the ata133 connector but not in Raid formation
Creative audigy soundcard
netgear network card which supports a second machine

All works well when I am using the machine but when I walk away it hangs
after 15 mins
I have watched it 3 times twice with 2 different screen savers and once with
none
after 15 min screen freezes with furious disc activity then restarts more
disc activity then freezes
screen does not go blank!!!

Nothing other than a reset will start it again.

The only way I can stop it from happening is to put it into sleep mode then
it happily wakes up even hours afterwards

On another occasions I left it running overnight transcoding a film and it
was fine.

I have tried all 3 settings for suspend mode in Bios in the power menu

I have had power management enabled and disabled
currently I have suspend as s1 only and APM as enabled, video and hard disc
suspend disabled
with windows power setting as always on.

I had to do a repair reinstall of windows XP when I first started the
computer and to eliminate
the graphics card or drivers I tried it with an Nvidia Geforce TI 500 - same
result

I have had some help from asus but they mention sata drives and an older
Bios as possible problems
I do not have sata drives and bios is the very latest
Also XP is bang upto date with patches

I recognise it is not a serious problem although I think that if I leave it
only downloading something from
the internet it hangs but need to check this out further.

I await help from Asus but would welcome any thoughts you might have as to a
possible solution or things to try.

Regards

Your description almost makes it sound like a driver is crashing
the machine, when the OS attempts to change power states.

What happens if the Audigy isn't plugged into the machine ?

Or, what happens if Hyperthreading is disabled in the BIOS ?
(On the assumption that the Audigy driver doesn't like Hyperthreading.)

Things I would try. Set up the machine so that it doesn't automatically
restart on a crash. That way, you could get a blue screen to read
instead. The furious disk activity almost sounds like the OS is
doing a "crash dump" ?

Have you checked the Event Viewer, for any error messages ?

And finally, get a copy of dumppo.exe, a utility from Microsoft.
ftp://ftp.microsoft.com/Products/Oemtest/v1.1/WOSTest/Tools/Acpi/dumppo.exe

Check groups.google.com for examples of how to use it. It is
a DOS type util that accepts command line switches. This tool
can be used to repair minor ACPI upsets and also query the
system for what S states are supported.

From http://www.bellamyjc.net/fr/windows2000.html , some arguments
to dumppo.exe .

paramètre fonction affichée

cap power capabilities
ps Win32 System power status
bs battery status
admin Admin policy overrides
ac AC power policy
dc DC power policy

Par exemple : dumppo ps cap

or another command, used to set S3 suspend to ram.

dumppo.exe admin /ac minsleep=s3

I suppose this problem isn't actually _caused_ by a Microsoft
patch I apply Windows updates sparingly, and one at a time.

HTH,
Paul

 

[NickM]

Have just updated my machine with a P4C800-E deluxe board and the following
P4 3gig prescott
1gig dual channel memory
Radeon 9800 pro
2 maxtor drives connected to the ata133 connector but not in Raid formation
Creative audigy soundcard
netgear network card which supports a second machine

All works well when I am using the machine but when I walk away it hangs
after 15 mins
I have watched it 3 times twice with 2 different screen savers and once with
none
after 15 min screen freezes with furious disc activity then restarts more
disc activity then freezes
screen does not go blank!!!

Nothing other than a reset will start it again.

The only way I can stop it from happening is to put it into sleep mode then
it happily wakes up even hours afterwards

On another occasions I left it running overnight transcoding a film and it
was fine.

I have tried all 3 settings for suspend mode in Bios in the power menu

I have had power management enabled and disabled
currently I have suspend as s1 only and APM as enabled, video and hard disc
suspend disabled
with windows power setting as always on.

I had to do a repair reinstall of windows XP when I first started the
computer and to eliminate
the graphics card or drivers I tried it with an Nvidia Geforce TI 500 - same
result

I have had some help from asus but they mention sata drives and an older
Bios as possible problems
I do not have sata drives and bios is the very latest
Also XP is bang upto date with patches

I recognise it is not a serious problem although I think that if I leave it
only downloading something from
the internet it hangs but need to check this out further.

I await help from Asus but would welcome any thoughts you might have as to a
possible solution or things to try.

Regards

Only a suggestion, but it is fairly common for slight memory errors to cause
this type of behaviour. Even branded memory can sometimes be faulty or not
quite up to par. I suggest you download Memtest86, create a bootable floppy
or CD (depending on which you download) and run it for an hour or so. If
there are problems with your RAM, MemTest86 will find them in most cases
(but not always on a short run! MemTest will cycle on and on until you
decide it's time to stop). The program runs 7 tests in all using different
patterns and one cycle will take about 15 minutes on your system. Errors
shown in the latter tests can sometimes be eliminated by slightly raising
the DDR memory voltage and/or throttling back memory timings, whereas errors
in tests 1 or 2 usually indicate a pretty bad problem requiring a
replacement memory module. Any errors are unacceptable and faulty modules
should be replaced if you want stability. I have however seen apparently
faulty memory on a few models of board from Gigabyte in particular, where a
BIOS upgrade has sorted the problem out. It may be a similar story with
your Asus board. The latest BIOS is usually, but not always best.
Additionally, if you are trying to squeeze a little extra performance from
your system, start with everything set to standard values in the BIOS
first - and then only change one setting at a time, checking for stability
at each stage. A stable system is always preferable to an unstable but fast
performer.

HTH

Nick

 

[Bryce Preston]

Thanks for that
ran 3 cycles of memtest without a single error
I have not tried to change any of the performance settings in BIOS so it
cannot be that
changed to PS2 keyboard and mouse but no difference
Will probably have to try a full reinstall of Windows on a blank disc
eventually but for now will try and boot from standard ide
connections without my sound card as the next try
Have already reinstalled sound card drivers
Checked event log but nothing at the time of the crash although it is
showing errors with IPNAT

Once again many thanks for the help

Regards

Bryce

 

[Bryce Preston]

Thanks for your help on this

I tried turning off hyperthreading but no good
I reinstalled the audigy drivers but have yet to unplug card
The machine is not restarting on crash it simply stops with a frozen screen
The evennt log shows nothing although it is showing an error on IPNAT and
when I try to enable that service
it says path cannot be found

I have tried running memtest - no errors
I tried a ps2 mouse and keyboard - no difference
I think that I was wrong to think it was actually going into suspend mode
The dumppo utility doesn't seem to be there now

I have a couple of more things to try ie running from the std ide controller
and if that fails will format disc and reinstall windows
not something Irelish
Again many thanks for your help it was most appreciated
regards

Bryce

 

[Icer]

Bryce -

Missed the start of this so I apologize if this has been stated but
have you checked your screensaver options? Display
Properties>ScreenSaver>Power (button). Set all to "Never". It sounds
like your HD or monitor is trying to shut down and locking you up..

G Patricks

 

[Bryce Preston]

Thanks for that yes I have checked that everything set to never in the power
options
Managed to start the machine at the first stall and fond event log made
reference to ULSATA time out
so will put hard drive onto std ide controller

Thanks again for suggestion

regards
Bryce


--
Bryce Preston
(e-mail address removed)

Bryce -

Missed the start of this so I apologize if this has been stated but
have you checked your screensaver options? Display
Properties>ScreenSaver>Power (button). Set all to "Never". It sounds
like your HD or monitor is trying to shut down and locking you up..

G Patricks

 

[Art Simpson]

Hello Bryce,

Although at first it might sound unlikely; Could it be an overheating matter.
Even though you mentionned with or without a screen saver running does it.
The question would be; Is it really ALWAYS 15 minutes ?

Do a quick test.. Try from 'cold' state into crash state.. (Should take about 15 mins ?)
Then restart, and try again..'warm' system now.. Should take a little shorter to crash.
Even if not.. OPEN the computer casing and thus help the airflow. That should allow the
system to run at least a little longer than 15 minutes.. If so. That would indicate a temperature
issue.

If the crash is tightly timed, nomatter what; Paul's diagnostic make plenty of sense.
If temperature (airflow variations) 'affect' consistently the issue. It could indicate a
borderline CPU.

If memtest seem to validate your memory setup.. I guess you still could not run it longer
than 15 minutes... Lowering the CPU frequency could also help pinpoint a defective hardware;
CPU/RAM timing problem.

Here you have another good start I think.
More ides where it came from in case all fails... Answering these temperature questions here
will help others hwelp you to nail the sucker.

Good Luck,
Never give-up, never surrender.

 

[Bryce Preston]

Again thanks for your help

I have left Asus probe running recording the CPU and motherboard temp and
have found not the slightest increase in temp before
the crash which always seems to be around 15mins wheteher the machine has
been running all day or just turned on

I Also left Probe recording all day with nothing unusual

I transcoded a film yesterday with furious CPU activity but temp again
renmained constant although obviously
higher at around 52degrees.

I have a 460watt power supply so that is not the problem
I noticed yesterday that the hesitation happened about 3 times with disc
activity as you get when the cpu is very busy and it then crashed
Reloaded and after 15 mins hesitation and disc activity started but by
moving the mouse I was able to recover system although mouse did freeze a
fewtimes before system continued

When I got it back I noticed that Mcaffe had hung trying to download an
update

Have reset Mcafee to check less frquently but that didn't help

May uninstall but still feel it is either related to the disc interface or
XP itself

Again many thanks for the help I appreciate it

Regards

Bryce

 

[Bryce Preston]

I have investigated further and have identified that before each failure I
get 3 event log entries
Application Popup
Event ID 26
Machine Check
and Machine Check reg

I can time the hang to the minute each time

I have run scandisc on both drives OK
If have run system file checker

Found some mention about .Net so installed that but no good
disabled as many startups as I could still no go

Still have to try drive on std IDE before I finally reinstall XP
Thought I would let you guys who helped me know the progress

Regards
Bryce

 

[Art Simpson]

Greets again,
Sounds like a Virus is attempting a clumsy thing that ends-up crashing your puter.
Read some stuff from here:
http://grc.com/

Otherwise`:
http://www.eventid.net/display.asp?app=ElUnDump&source=Application Popup&eventid=26

For a start about Viruse; Chack that you don't have this one.
http://vil.nai.com/vil/content/v_100723.htm

Back later,
A

 

[Bryce Preston]

Thanks again for that

I ran a thorough McAfee virus scan on both discs and only found 1 low level
trojan hidden in a zip file
deleted but no change

Have now found that when I try to run disc defrag the system hangs at 25%
analysis

Ran disc cleaner and scan disc
both went OK

Found I can only run defrag in safe mode whch was long overdue it ran ok but
when I reloaded in normal mode and tried a defrag analysis
it hung at 25% although system did start and stop a few times before final
hang

No problems defraging my second disc

Now a bit stuck

Thanks again

Bryce

--
Bryce Preston
(e-mail address removed)

Greets again,
Sounds like a Virus is attempting a clumsy thing that ends-up crashing your puter.
Read some stuff from here:
http://grc.com/

Otherwise`:
http://www.eventid.net/display.asp?app=ElUnDump&source=Application Popup&eventid=26

For a start about Viruse; Chack that you don't have this one.
http://vil.nai.com/vil/content/v_100723.htm

Back later,
A

 

[Art Simpson]

Okay now Brice it's time to sum it up.

Biggest clue... System will hang exactly 15 minutes after a power-up.
No virus detected; Memory checks well under 15mins tests (3passes).

But a DEFRAG got you locked-up... You should investigate that one.
It should never do that; What could be the cause ?
- Hard disk not properly configured for UDMA ?
ex: One Quantum drive I own is detected as UDMA 5 compliant, but
it cannot go faster than UDMA4, and thus becomes a problem
when I use defaults.

tips: Check that all drives are DMA enabled; Through System Properties.
If drives are running DMA all right), lower the DMA speed from BIOS.
ex: (Set all your Hard disks to same DMA speed in BIOS for a test; Lowest of them all.)

15 mins delay sounds also like a Windows Maintenance Wizard is configured
for a 'job'.. Verify that Windows automated system services (I dunno the name for XP)
is disabled. Could be set to start DEFRAG (would explain why drives go wild) after 15m.

If all attempts fails.. You still MUST make sure a dfrag can run fine,
on any partition of any drive... Investigate. Could be DMA related.
Could be HD incompatibilities (Old Quantum+WesternD can be problematic).

I think you are getting closer this time.
Please tell us next time your EXACT HD configuration (UDMA level for each drives).

The LAST suggestion; If everything seem to run fine, except that it still crashes..
Go in the BIOS and UNDERCLOCK the CPU.... AND/OR disable it's ondie cache or
some features (FOR TESTS). Making sure it's not CPU (HOT PRESCOTT) related.

I have full confidence in you Bryce
Best general advice for debugging a system... Try to ISOLATE the problem !!!
If you could use only ONE HD, and reinstall from scratch... Do thorough tests
using SANDRA 2004 SP1; That would be great.
CHEERS !

 

[Bryce Preston]

Well it is sorted or sort of
Put the drive as slave on my second machine and defraged no problem

Then ran discheck - no problems

Put it back on my main machine but on the IDE channel no probs defraged ok
system ran unattended for 20+ mins no hangs

Put it back on ata133 connector hung when I tried to defrag
system hung after the 15 mins

Have now configured system with Prime drive on primary IDE along with my
cd/dvd reader and writers filling all 4 slots

Second drive as Master on ata133 where it runs and defrags happily

My system drive is a 40 gig Diamond Max plus D740 Ultra ata 1333 2meg cache
and speed 7200
My second drive is the same but bigger 120gig with 8meg cache

I am gonna quit now while I am winning and pass the problem over to ASUS

Once again many thanks for the help and support and encouragement
It really was appreciated

Regards

Bryce