P4 retail box thermal material?

[Johannes H Andersen]

When I opened the box, I found a black piece of tape or whatever on the
bottom of the heat sink. Is that part of the thermal material or should
I remove it?

I've also looked at Intel's site and downloaded a pdf on the thermal
management and fitting, but found no instructions to remove the tape.

Furthermore, Scott Muellers book mention that the thermal material may
be either paste, pad or tape.

There is also a reference in the motherboard manual to "thermal tape".

 

[Anthony Fremont]

When I opened the box, I found a black piece of tape or whatever on the
bottom of the heat sink. Is that part of the thermal material or should
I remove it?

Leave it on.

 

[Stacey]

When I opened the box, I found a black piece of tape or whatever on the
bottom of the heat sink. Is that part of the thermal material or should
I remove it?

I've also looked at Intel's site and downloaded a pdf on the thermal
management and fitting, but found no instructions to remove the tape.

Some come with "protective tape" over the thermal pad to protect it in
shipping. The instructions that come with the CPU should explain this in
detail. If this "tape" you're talking about is a small square then this is
probably just the thermal pad, leave it alone and just install it. If it's
a piece of tape that goes over to the edge of the HS, it's probably a piece
of tape to protect the pad. It should be pretty obvious if it's the
protective kind of tape. Good thing with a P4, if you screw up this part,
the chip just throttles itself back instead of burning up.

 

[KR Williams]

Some come with "protective tape" over the thermal pad to protect it in
shipping. The instructions that come with the CPU should explain this in
detail. If this "tape" you're talking about is a small square then this is
probably just the thermal pad, leave it alone and just install it. If it's
a piece of tape that goes over to the edge of the HS, it's probably a piece
of tape to protect the pad. It should be pretty obvious if it's the
protective kind of tape.

The Retail Opterons come with a hard plastic sheet over the
bottom of the fansink to protect the goo. Seems to be an
excellent solution.

Good thing with a P4, if you screw up this part,
the chip just throttles itself back instead of burning up.

The P4 throttles in any case. ;-)

 

[Anthony Fremont]

The P4 throttles in any case. ;-)

That's still better than just turning. ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-)
;-) ;-) ;-) ;-)

 

[Anthony Fremont]

Oops
"Anthony Fremont"

That's still better than just turning OFF. ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-)

 

[KR Williams]

Oops
"Anthony Fremont"

That's still better than just turning OFF. ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-)

You really ought to get with the 21st century, AF. P4 is dead.
*dead*, *DEAD*, I tell you! ...just as I predicted some few
years ago. ;-)

 

[Robert Redelmeier]

The P4 throttles in any case. ;-)

I've been working on demonstrating/testing just this.
What leads you to this conclusion?

-- Robert author `cpuburn` http://pages.sbcglobal.net/redelm

 

[Anthony Fremont]

You really ought to get with the 21st century, AF. P4 is dead.
*dead*, *DEAD*, I tell you! ...just as I predicted some few
years ago. ;-)

Give it up Keith, Intel rules. Just go on over to Tom's Hardware and
see for yourself. ;-)

 

[KR Williams]

Give it up Keith, Intel rules. Just go on over to Tom's Hardware and
see for yourself. ;-)

Hogwash! Opteron rulz. P4 is dead, *dead*, DEAD*! Intel got
caught with their panties soiled, once again. Now, if I can get
the last 10' of the cable from the upstairs bedroom to the wiring
"closet" tomorrow... Then there is Linux to figr out.

 

[Anthony Fremont]

I wrote:

Hogwash! Opteron rulz. P4 is dead, *dead*, DEAD*! Intel got
caught with their panties soiled, once again.

Nah, you're fantasizing again, HT is king. ;-)

Now, if I can get
the last 10' of the cable from the upstairs bedroom to the wiring
"closet" tomorrow... Then there is Linux to figr out.

It's about time you got with the program (Linux that is). Which flavor
will you be using? I highly recommend Gentoo (www.gentoo.org) for the
long haul. Of course if you really wish to get your hands dirty, you
may want to do an LFS (www.linuxfromscratch.org) install just for grins.

 

[Johannes H Andersen]

Nah, you're fantasizing again, HT is king. ;-)


It's about time you got with the program (Linux that is). Which flavor
will you be using? I highly recommend Gentoo (www.gentoo.org) for the
long haul. Of course if you really wish to get your hands dirty, you
may want to do an LFS (www.linuxfromscratch.org) install just for grins.

Thanks folks, didn't imagine that I would start a long thread. Found this
however:

http://support.intel.com/support/processors/sb/cs-005969-prd24.htm

This should clear up the matter; I'll leave the black strip on.

Done is done, I did also consider AMD but got a P4C 2.8/800. My choice
however, was motivated by the Intel's dual channel memory and 800 fsb.
I think this is more important than small differences in GHz. Notice
that I picked the lowest GHz in currently available in this family.

AMD also have dual channel versions, but that's the 940 socket family
which costs more. Once this computer is up, I'll hardly notice the
innards. Whatever you buy it will be obsolete tomorrow, but then I have
work to do.

 

[KR Williams]

Nah, you're fantasizing again, HT is king. ;-)

HT is dead, *dead*, *DEAD*! (well, until the next attempt, anyway
and P4 has been canceled. ;-)

It's about time you got with the program (Linux that is). Which flavor
will you be using?

SuSE 9.1

I highly recommend Gentoo (www.gentoo.org) for the
long haul. Of course if you really wish to get your hands dirty, you
may want to do an LFS (www.linuxfromscratch.org) install just for grins.

I'm not a programmer type. I want a system that works, rather
than one I have to keep fiddling with. Though I may install
something else in another partition for play. I'm dumping Win
because of it's licensing/registration/security (read that both
ways) issues, not because I want to fiddle with the OS all day. I
went with SuSE because I believe it has better AMD64 support. ;-)

I installed SuSE late yesterday, but the monitor doesn't work
(H.V refresh too high) after installation. It also complained
about some other things (like no Internet found), so I'll retry
after I get the last 10' of the pipe finished, likely this
afternoon.

 

[KR Williams]

Thanks folks, didn't imagine that I would start a long thread. Found this
however:

http://support.intel.com/support/processors/sb/cs-005969-prd24.htm

This should clear up the matter; I'll leave the black strip on.

Done is done, I did also consider AMD but got a P4C 2.8/800. My choice
however, was motivated by the Intel's dual channel memory and 800 fsb.
I think this is more important than small differences in GHz. Notice
that I picked the lowest GHz in currently available in this family.

AMD also have dual channel versions, but that's the 940 socket family
which costs more. Once this computer is up, I'll hardly notice the
innards. Whatever you buy it will be obsolete tomorrow, but then I have
work to do.

A little more $$, sure. I decided add the $$ (go bare-bones
elsewhere, for now) and skip the K7 family altogether. Note that
AMD not only has dual-channel, but an integrated memory
controller. Intel has to stuff memory accesses through the
northbridge and system bus.

 

[Anthony Fremont]

(e-mail address removed) says...

HT is dead, *dead*, *DEAD*! (well, until the next attempt, anyway
and P4 has been canceled. ;-)

No way, AMD will HAVE to implement multi-threading in some fashion
sooner or later. Prolly later, like usual. ;-) BTW, Intel is coming
out with their 64bit P4 in August AIUI.

SuSE 9.1

I've never installed SuSE, couldn't get past all that german. ;-) I
started with Slackware in 1995, also done a few Redhat installs, an LFS,
played with Knoppix, and completed a bunch of Gentoo setups. I now
strictly use Gentoo for customer server setups. Installing or updating
packages in Gentoo is way too easy.

grins.

I'm not a programmer type. I want a system that works, rather

Then install Gentoo. I'm serious, it's a piece of cake. Emerge is the
greatest thing since sliced bread. Just follow the step by step
instructions to bootstrap your way up and then afterwards you'll know
what you need to know to manage your system.

than one I have to keep fiddling with. Though I may install
something else in another partition for play. I'm dumping Win
because of it's licensing/registration/security (read that both

Yeah, MS is clueless. But thanks to spyware, addware and virii, I keep
myself pretty busy. ;-)

ways) issues, not because I want to fiddle with the OS all day. I
went with SuSE because I believe it has better AMD64 support. ;-)

I really don't see how any one distribution can have better support, the
kernel is the kernel is the..... The nice thing about Gentoo is that
you can compile everything (kernel, libs, and apps) optimized for your
CPU. The downside of that is you can't simply stick your hard-drive in
another box (unless it's the same arch of course).

I installed SuSE late yesterday, but the monitor doesn't work
(H.V refresh too high) after installation. It also complained

Post your XF86Config file and let me see what they've mangled in it.
;-) It could be that your monitor lied to the X server about its
capabilities. It happens. Getting things like 3D acceleration to work
can be a pain. Most Linux install problems are due to greedy
manufacturers not supporting it and demanding NDA's before releasing
hardware details. Once manufacturers get with the program, Linux should
run away with the market since developers will be able to concentrate on
the kernel and apps instead of spending all their time reverse
engineering braindead hardware to create drivers. ;-)

about some other things (like no Internet found), so I'll retry
after I get the last 10' of the pipe finished, likely this
afternoon.

Yeah, that last 10' can be a real bitch.

 

[KR Williams]

No way, AMD will HAVE to implement multi-threading in some fashion
sooner or later. Prolly later, like usual. ;-) BTW, Intel is coming
out with their 64bit P4 in August AIUI.

Seriously, multi-core chips are the next thing. HT isn't all
that big of a win, at least as implemented.

I've never installed SuSE, couldn't get past all that german. ;-) I
started with Slackware in 1995, also done a few Redhat installs, an LFS,
played with Knoppix, and completed a bunch of Gentoo setups. I now
strictly use Gentoo for customer server setups. Installing or updating
packages in Gentoo is way too easy.

No German. SuSE is owned by Novell.

Then install Gentoo. I'm serious, it's a piece of cake. Emerge is the
greatest thing since sliced bread. Just follow the step by step
instructions to bootstrap your way up and then afterwards you'll know
what you need to know to manage your system.

I was specifically warned away from Gentoo but a colleague. BTW,
he thought my choice of SuSE was the right one too (he uses
Gentoo).

Yeah, MS is clueless. But thanks to spyware, addware and virii, I keep
myself pretty busy. ;-)
;-)


I really don't see how any one distribution can have better support, the
kernel is the kernel is the..... The nice thing about Gentoo is that
you can compile everything (kernel, libs, and apps) optimized for your
CPU. The downside of that is you can't simply stick your hard-drive in
another box (unless it's the same arch of course).

Dunno, but SuSE is considered a front-runner in 64bit support.
Port/compile/test with 64b? Dunno, I'm only going by what I've
read.

Post your XF86Config file and let me see what they've mangled in it.
;-) It could be that your monitor lied to the X server about its
capabilities. It happens. Getting things like 3D acceleration to work
can be a pain.

You're likely right, though I didn't have the energy to dig
through it last night. No 3D here. It's a pretty stock monitor
graphics card setup (ViewSonic P95f + Matrox G550). I'll likely
try it again after I move this machine upstairs (so I can go dual
head).

Most Linux install problems are due to greedy
manufacturers not supporting it and demanding NDA's before releasing
hardware details. Once manufacturers get with the program, Linux should
run away with the market since developers will be able to concentrate on
the kernel and apps instead of spending all their time reverse
engineering braindead hardware to create drivers. ;-)

SuSE claims to have been tested ("supports") the G550.

Yeah, that last 10' can be a real bitch.

Actually it's not bad, but RG-6 doesn't stretch that much. ;-)
The hard part was the first 10' (through a wall between the
dining room and family room up to the upstairs. This is just
drilling down from the electrical closet (outside shed, sort of
thing) to the basement (done). Next, a(nother) trip to the Home
Despot for some 'F' and RJ45 parts. I thought I had everything,
but I can't find 'em. :-(

 

[Anthony Fremont]

Seriously, multi-core chips are the next thing. HT isn't all
that big of a win, at least as implemented.

I'll agree that it's not as good as having two CPU's, but it's certainly
better than just one especially since it doesn't cost any extra. Just
think how good AMD would look with HT and dual cores. ;-)

No German. SuSE is owned by Novell.

Hmmm.....I must have missed that.

I was specifically warned away from Gentoo but a colleague. BTW,
he thought my choice of SuSE was the right one too (he uses
Gentoo).

I'm not sure I want to ask this, but I can't stop myself. ;-) Just
precisely what didn't he like about Gentoo.

;-)

Money is money, I'll take it. But, I sure am getting tired of cleaning
the same old crap. The adware makers are getting pretty good at making
the stuff as ingrained into the OS as IE is. VX2Betterinternet is a
pain to get rid of.

Dunno, but SuSE is considered a front-runner in 64bit support.
Port/compile/test with 64b? Dunno, I'm only going by what I've
read.

Must be a bunch of SuSE patches (hax ;-) to the kernel. Even Gentoo has
it's specially patched kernel. Let's hope SuSE doesn't get as carried
away as Redhat did with their "patches". :-O

You're likely right, though I didn't have the energy to dig
through it last night. No 3D here. It's a pretty stock monitor
graphics card setup (ViewSonic P95f + Matrox G550). I'll likely
try it again after I move this machine upstairs (so I can go dual
head).

You'll get it, it just might take a bunch of reading to do so. Welcome
to Linux. ;-)

SuSE claims to have been tested ("supports") the G550.

Hmmm sounds a bit open ended. Most video cards need special kernel
support as well as XFree86 drivers to make the most of them (read as
good 3D support). Fortunately to get the 2D acceleration going doesn't
require as much effort.

Actually it's not bad, but RG-6 doesn't stretch that much. ;-)

Use a copper center conductor and it will stretch nicely over time. Of
course your impedance will adjust appropriately. ;-)

The hard part was the first 10' (through a wall between the
dining room and family room up to the upstairs. This is just
drilling down from the electrical closet (outside shed, sort of
thing) to the basement (done). Next, a(nother) trip to the Home
Despot for some 'F' and RJ45 parts. I thought I had everything,
but I can't find 'em. :-(

I hope you have decent crimp tools. Should only run you about $130.00
for a set. ;-) They make some EZ RJ45's that have little holes in the
end to pass the wires thru. Makes it allot easier to get things tucked
in nice and tight. Of course many hubs/switches and NIC cards don't
like the protruding bits no matter how flush you try to cut them.

Send me a plane ticket and I'll finish it up for you. ;-) Thank God
for fiberglass rods and may the sadist that invented fish tape burn in
hell. ))

 

[Tony Hill]

Seriously, multi-core chips are the next thing. HT isn't all
that big of a win, at least as implemented.

I like the idea of HT, it seems like a decent way to get some extra
performance for a small transistor cost. However I'm not sure if it's
really a big win. It certainly isn't for all cases, though I have
seen some places where it bumps performance up by 20-25%. That's
pretty respectable IMO.

That being said, I'm REAL excited about future dual-core chips. I'm
thinking that I'm going to ride my current system out until they
arrive and upgrade then. I've got an AthlonXP 1700+ that is serving
me pretty well, though some games are occasionally a bit slow and
compiling stuff in Gentoo is slow as always.

No German. SuSE is owned by Novell.

They may be owned by Novell, but it's still pretty much a German
thing. That being said, all the important scripts and instructions
seem to have been well translated into English last time I looked into
it (pre-Novell buyout).

I was specifically warned away from Gentoo but a colleague. BTW,
he thought my choice of SuSE was the right one too (he uses
Gentoo).

As another user of Gentoo, I would also warn away from it. Gentoo is
great for people who live and breath Linux as well as those who just
like to play around with it. However, if you want a system that
pretty much just works out of the box, it's not a very good choice.

Dunno, but SuSE is considered a front-runner in 64bit support.
Port/compile/test with 64b? Dunno, I'm only going by what I've
read.

SuSE was the first to get their 64-bit system really up to par. From
what I understand, these days RedHat, Gentoo and Mandrake (and maybe a
few others) are all doing just fine with 64-bits as well. The 64-bit
part itself was pretty straight-forward, most distributions already
support some 64-bit architecture in some for or another (mostly old
Alpha and/or SPARC, though some also support PPC 64-bit). Mostly it
was just a straight recompile. The only tricky part was the bi-arch
nature of AMD64 systems, getting them to work well with 32-bit x86
binaries as well as the 64-bit x64-64 ones.

 

[KR Williams]

I'll agree that it's not as good as having two CPU's, but it's certainly
better than just one especially since it doesn't cost any extra. Just
think how good AMD would look with HT and dual cores. ;-)

Oh, but HT does cost extra. Apparently in it's present
implementation it's not worth that extra (P4 is dead meat). AMD
with HT? Who cares. AMD w/dual cores seems to be getting some
interest though. Meanwhile Intel is trying to do a Heinz with
*AMD64* (under their moniker) as a XEON only. You're team is
responding just so on-script.

Hmmm.....I must have missed that.

....seems you've missed a *lot*! '-)

I'm not sure I want to ask this, but I can't stop myself. ;-) Just
precisely what didn't he like about Gentoo.

Too much configuration/compiling for the Lin-novice. SuSE came
highly recommended (from many sources) as being the "best". YaST
is a selling point. ...though I'm still not there.

Money is money, I'll take it. But, I sure am getting tired of cleaning
the same old crap. The adware makers are getting pretty good at making
the stuff as ingrained into the OS as IE is. VX2Betterinternet is a
pain to get rid of.

Understand that different people have different motivation. You
know Gentoo. ...doesn't mean it's the best for a novice.

Must be a bunch of SuSE patches (hax ;-) to the kernel. Even Gentoo has
it's specially patched kernel. Let's hope SuSE doesn't get as carried
away as Redhat did with their "patches". :-O

Shultz: I know NooothhING!

You'll get it, it just might take a bunch of reading to do so. Welcome
to Linux. ;-)

Yeah, the system has been hung for hours waiting to change the
resolution (you were right the monitor lied) with the clock
spinning (once I added the secondary display). I rebooted with
the installation CD but all I get now is a "casper", then the
same clock spinning It still won't let me change the graphics
stuff. Me thinks PQMagic is going to have to delete everything
and start over. Not a biggie, the old machine (this one) is
three keystrokes away.

Hmmm sounds a bit open ended. Most video cards need special kernel
support as well as XFree86 drivers to make the most of them (read as
good 3D support). Fortunately to get the 2D acceleration going doesn't
require as much effort.

Well. We *are* learning things by the minute. ;-) However, my
understanding is that the G500 is rather "simple". Indeed, the
secondary display works, though hardly optimallyy. I've triedto
do *something* and it seems to be hung. I cannot even coax the
thing to re-install. Well, learn...

Use a copper center conductor and it will stretch nicely over time. Of
course your impedance will adjust appropriately. ;-)

All done. It took all of an hour to get it all together, after
the trip to the Home Despot. I have both machines playing
together (with a KVM on the primary display) rather nicely. NOw
to convince the new machine to behave!

I hope you have decent crimp tools. Should only run you about $130.00
for a set. ;-) They make some EZ RJ45's that have little holes in the
end to pass the wires thru. Makes it allot easier to get things tucked
in nice and tight. Of course many hubs/switches and NIC cards don't
like the protruding bits no matter how flush you try to cut them.

A punch-down is all I need. Unfortunately I lent my ($80) tool
to someone, now unknown. I can do an acceptable job without it,
but...

Send me a plane ticket and I'll finish it up for you. ;-) Thank God
for fiberglass rods and may the sadist that invented fish tape burn in
hell. ))

Flexible shaft drill-bit and an electricians snake (though a PITA
doing it alone running up&down stairs). It's all done. We're
transmitting from the kid's former room, though it is still a
disaster. ;-)

The next task is the adjoining bathroom. I *HATE* plumbing.

 

[chrisv]

Some come with "protective tape" over the thermal pad to protect it in
shipping.

P4's don't, in my experience.