Outlook Express and Recycle Bin contents (many .BAK files)

[Gerry]

Tim

Do not put yourself down.

This quote helps explain compaction:

"What Does Compacting Messages Mean, and What Happens?
When you delete an email in Outlook Express, it is moved to the Deleted
Items folder. The message disappears from its original folder, and when
you empty the trash, it disappears from there, too.
In neither case is the message removed from the file on your disk
immediately, however. Editing files for this is a slow process, and
you'd have to wait or experience Outlook Express responding slowly
whenever you deleted a couple of emails. This is why deletion merely
hides the messages from view.
Of course, having all your deleted messages still on disk means a lot of
space that can be reclaimed is wasted over time, and if Outlook Express
has to keep track of too many obsolete messages this itself can mean a
slowdown of certain actions.
So Outlook Express tries to remove these deleted emails physically from
time to time. This it calls "compacting". Every 100 times you close
Outlook Express, you are asked to start that process."
Source:
http://email.about.com/od/outlookexpresstroubles/qt/et_compact_oe.htm

I cannot locate a plain English explanation of file compression. This is
the simplest I can find.

"In computer science and information theory, data compression or source
coding is the process of encoding information using fewer bits (or other
information-bearing units) than an unencoded representation would use
through use of specific encoding schemes."
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File_compression

Compaction removes redundant data within a file. File compression
rewrites the data remaining in simpler way requiring less space.

Language in the world of computers can be confusing. It caused me great
difficulties when I first started reading these newsgroups. English
words have different meaning in different parts of the world. Thus
English ( UK) has subtle differences from English (US). Taking it a step
further there is English (Microsoft). You can consult your Concise
Oxford Dictionary when you read a Microsoft Knowledge Base Article and
think you understand what it says. Usually you will have grasped the
correct meaning but every now and then you will misunderstand the
message. Lengthy heated arguments can ensue unless you recognise that
there is more than one interpretation of the written word. If you
investigate usage of "virtual memory" you will find the words have more
than one meaning and it causes confusion when the subject is discussed.
Similarly the word "drive" is commonly used when it may be more
appropriate to refer to a "partition" or "volume". That is why it can be
important to use the correct terminolgy.


--


Hope this helps.

Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Gerry,
I agree with your sentiments, but yes it did feel just as you
describe, that you say was not your intention.... I didn't say that
you "made me feel like a peanut" for no reason.

However, I believe myself to be someone who can admit mistakes (and
have done, on more than one occasion). However, about your
infallible logic ; just explain to me (simply, because I really
don't think I'm all that bright) what 'compacting' does to the .dbx
files to make them different from mine (which have never had
compacting performed on them). And how this process differs from
compression.
(I say I'm not bright, but I'm not an idiot - 'compact' and 'compress'
have interchangeable definitions in the dictionary. Also, with
regards to compressed files ('c' attribute) you can use the command
'compact' on them to decompress or compress files (compact.exe))

BTW you asked me how I stopped 'compacting' from happening - I modify
a registry value :


[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Identities\{GUID}\Software\Microsoft\Outlook
Express\5.0]
"Compact Check Count"=dword:00000063


...this seems to bring the 'Check Count' to one below the number
required to begin the 'compacting' process.


==

Cheers, Tim Meddick, Peckham, London.

Tim

Fine by me but the content of my last post demonstrates the
difference between compaction and compression. You seem reluctant to
accept the logic despite the evidence provided. I am sorry that you
feel the way you do. These newsgroups do provoke confrontations from
time to time but they are a great place to learn. There are more
than enough individuals who seek to cause trouble purely for the
sake of making others squirm when you make minor mistakes or
oversights. That was not my intention when I made the post that so
upset you. Admiiting the odd mistake is a better way to handle
these situations than fighting to the bitter end.


--


Hope this helps.

Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
.

 

[Tim Meddick]

Gerry,
I really do appreciate the effort you have obviously put in
here, and I agree with much of it.

I also realize what is meant by 'compacting' in OE now, thanks to you,
cheers.

But, at the risk of annoying you further, what about M$'s COMPACT.EXE
(XP) that absolutely does COMPRESS files???

Will you admit that the definitions become a little blurred here, at
least?


==

Cheers, Tim Meddick, Peckham, London.

Tim

Do not put yourself down.

This quote helps explain compaction:

"What Does Compacting Messages Mean, and What Happens?
When you delete an email in Outlook Express, it is moved to the
Deleted Items folder. The message disappears from its original folder,
and when you empty the trash, it disappears from there, too.
In neither case is the message removed from the file on your disk
immediately, however. Editing files for this is a slow process, and
you'd have to wait or experience Outlook Express responding slowly
whenever you deleted a couple of emails. This is why deletion merely
hides the messages from view.
Of course, having all your deleted messages still on disk means a lot
of space that can be reclaimed is wasted over time, and if Outlook
Express has to keep track of too many obsolete messages this itself
can mean a slowdown of certain actions.
So Outlook Express tries to remove these deleted emails physically
from time to time. This it calls "compacting". Every 100 times you
close Outlook Express, you are asked to start that process."
Source:
http://email.about.com/od/outlookexpresstroubles/qt/et_compact_oe.htm

I cannot locate a plain English explanation of file compression. This
is the simplest I can find.

"In computer science and information theory, data compression or
source coding is the process of encoding information using fewer bits
(or other information-bearing units) than an unencoded representation
would use through use of specific encoding schemes."
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File_compression

Compaction removes redundant data within a file. File compression
rewrites the data remaining in simpler way requiring less space.

Language in the world of computers can be confusing. It caused me
great difficulties when I first started reading these newsgroups.
English words have different meaning in different parts of the world.
Thus English ( UK) has subtle differences from English (US). Taking it
a step further there is English (Microsoft). You can consult your
Concise Oxford Dictionary when you read a Microsoft Knowledge Base
Article and think you understand what it says. Usually you will have
grasped the correct meaning but every now and then you will
misunderstand the message. Lengthy heated arguments can ensue unless
you recognise that there is more than one interpretation of the
written word. If you investigate usage of "virtual memory" you will
find the words have more than one meaning and it causes confusion when
the subject is discussed. Similarly the word "drive" is commonly used
when it may be more appropriate to refer to a "partition" or "volume".
That is why it can be important to use the correct terminolgy.


--


Hope this helps.

Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Gerry,
I agree with your sentiments, but yes it did feel just as
you
describe, that you say was not your intention.... I didn't say that
you "made me feel like a peanut" for no reason.

However, I believe myself to be someone who can admit mistakes (and
have done, on more than one occasion). However, about your
infallible logic ; just explain to me (simply, because I really
don't think I'm all that bright) what 'compacting' does to the .dbx
files to make them different from mine (which have never had
compacting performed on them). And how this process differs from
compression.
(I say I'm not bright, but I'm not an idiot - 'compact' and
'compress'
have interchangeable definitions in the dictionary. Also, with
regards to compressed files ('c' attribute) you can use the command
'compact' on them to decompress or compress files (compact.exe))

BTW you asked me how I stopped 'compacting' from happening - I modify
a registry value :


[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Identities\{GUID}\Software\Microsoft\Outlook
Express\5.0]
"Compact Check Count"=dword:00000063


...this seems to bring the 'Check Count' to one below the number
required to begin the 'compacting' process.


==

Cheers, Tim Meddick, Peckham, London.

Tim

Fine by me but the content of my last post demonstrates the
difference between compaction and compression. You seem reluctant to
accept the logic despite the evidence provided. I am sorry that you
feel the way you do. These newsgroups do provoke confrontations from
time to time but they are a great place to learn. There are more
than enough individuals who seek to cause trouble purely for the
sake of making others squirm when you make minor mistakes or
oversights. That was not my intention when I made the post that so
upset you. Admiiting the odd mistake is a better way to handle
these situations than fighting to the bitter end.


--


Hope this helps.

Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
.

Tim Meddick wrote:
I really thought that we had moved on from all this.

Although OE uses the term 'compact' it means compress, I think
anyone would agree on that.

(That is why I made the reference to semantics).

Any compression algorithm uses a ratio.

You have not told me anything I didn't know before, except for the
point I conceded yesterday about .dbx files becoming .bak files on
deletion, and them using the recycle bin.

Why does it seem to be so important to you to educate me in some
way? Why can't we just try : You leave me alone and I'll leave you
alone
- how about that?


==

Cheers, Tim Meddick, Peckham, London.




Tim

"compacting is just another term for compression (it uses a ratio)
" Leaving aside the personal abuse where do you get the idea that
compacting uses a ratio? You can increase the amount a file
compacts (reduces in size) by removing unwanted messages. The file
will nevertheless constantly increase in size as new messages are
added and the size only reduces when you compact. Compare this to
a word or
excel file. They reduce in size when you remove data and save.

File compression is not the same as compaction. If you examine the
file size of a dbx file after compaction the size and the size on
disk are the same. If you then use file compression on the same
file the file size remains the same but the size on disk is
reduced. I carried out a simple test on an archived file. The size
of the file was 80.7 mb and the size on disk 46.1 mb. The amount a
file compresses depends on the file type. You will get differring
results for excel and word files. Some file types only show
minimal
reductions in size. --


Hope this helps.

Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



Tim Meddick wrote:
"Bill in Co" you prove my point, that you CAN tell someone they
are wrong - AND NOT be a t*** about it!

...and I WAS wrong, I missed the significance of the title
(because,
no matter what Gerry says, compacting is just another term for
compression (it uses a ratio) because I never use and actively
avoid
'compacting' ).
You managed to tell me I need educating on this a bit more
without
making me feel like a peanut, what's he got against me?

It's people like him (and his gob) and the fact that the group is
under attack by spammers, that will one day put me off trying to
help people out in groups like this altogether...


==

Cheers, Tim Meddick, Peckham, London.




Actually Tim, Gerry was correct. You need to read up a bit
more
on OE; go look at the insideoe web page by Tomsterdam to get a
heads up on the subject.

Tim Meddick wrote:
Gerry,
please don't use terms such as "you show a complete
lack
of understanding" .... karma may well jump right back at you
and
bite you
in the a**!

First of all, I don't use OE's compression, I avoid it.

Second, if you read the OP, you will find that he has said : "
lost a month of emails,.......found an answer telling me to go
to the recycle
bin, I did this and there they were. " -

"there they were" - that sounds to me that he is talking about
individual emails.

He does not mention anywhere about .dbx files, and appears to
be
(at a
glance) a novice, one would have thought if he had meant .dbx
files
he
would have said so.

Most people don't know anything about .dbx files, and I think
you're
wrong to assume he is talking about them here.

No where does the OP give enough information for you to make
any
statement to the effect that what I have said was wrong.

It may turn out that you are right about him meaning compacted
.dbx files, but, either way, talking down to people in a
derisive manner when
in no-one's wildest imaginings, might my post have done anyone
any
harm.
To be so judgemental and acidulous will not win you friends but
enemies.


==

Cheers, Tim Meddick, Peckham, London.




Tim

What you write shows a complete lack of understanding of the
Automatic
Compacting process, which is part of Outlook Express!

A backup copy of each dbx file is placed in the Recycle Bin
before compaction. Each file has a bak file extension.

You seem to be using Outlook Express.

In Outlook Express place the cursor on Local Folders and
select
File,
Work Offline followed by File, Folder, Compact All. Do not
attempt to
interrupt or stop the process until it has completed. Close
Outlook
Express when it has completed.

Now look in your Recycle Bin.

--


Hope this helps.

Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


If emails ended up in the Window's Recycle Bin, then they
were
probably 'saved to disk' instead of where OE usually keeps
emails - in compacted dot- .dbx files. These .dbx files
expand into the folders that you see in Outlook Express.

For an email to get deleted to the 'Recycle Bin' it must have
been
an
individual .eml file.

So, try searching your computer ('Start Menu' > Search > 'For
Files or Folders') for .eml files - type *.eml into the box
marked 'All or part of the filename' and press 'Search'.


==

Cheers, Tim Meddick, Peckham, London.




message

Hi
I am new.
Please help.
Yes, my outlook express compacted my stuff and looks like I
lost a month of emails, ( from 18th May til yesterday). I
have tried searching
the net for answers. I found an answer telling me to go to
the recycle
bin, I did this and there they were. When I clicked
"restore", I thought
they would go back to the inbox...... They disappeared from
the
recycle
bin but I have no idea where they went!
Can someone please help?

I think they are in my System "somewhere" but goodness knows
where.
My other folders and emails seem to be fine!:smile:

Any help greatly appreciated.
Drummerchick