(OT) The giant steps down before the crash

D

Dr. Jai Maharaj

Microsoft: Vista Most Secure OS Ever

By Nate Mook and Tim Conneally, BetaNews
BetaNews
Thursday, June 15, 2006

Microsoft senior vice president Bob Muglia opened up
TechEd 2006 in Boston Sunday evening by proclaiming that
Windows Vista was the most secure operating system in the
industry. But a bold statement can only go so far, and
much of this week's conference has been spent reinforcing
that point.

-From the network perimeter to deep inside the Windows
client, the significance of security has permeated into
every facet of technology. Norman Mailer said that 20th
century man's default status was anxiety. We have barely
dipped our toes into the 21st, and our default status has
already been elevated to outright fear.

More at:
http://www.betanews.com/article/Microsoft_Vista_Most_Secure_OS_Ever/1150366131

Jai Maharaj
http://tinyurl.com/a5ljc
http://www.mantra.com/jai
Om Shanti

I have stated before what I think the future will be for Microsoft with
vista and office 2007 ....
They are badly designed abominations... and it seems that Gates is getting
out of the boat before it sinks...

http://news.com.com/Gates+stepping+down+from+full-time+Microsoft+role/2100-101
4_3-6084396.html?tag=nl.e498

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B

Brian (Groups)

John said:
I have stated before what I think the future will be for Microsoft with
vista and office 2007 ....
They are badly designed abominations...

I seem to remember hearing similar comments about Win 3.1... didn't
seem to phase its further development though.

Brian
 
M

Mark Carter

John said:
I have stated before what I think the future will be for Microsoft with
vista and office 2007 ....
They are badly designed abominations... and it seems that Gates is getting
out of the boat before it sinks...

If I were him, I would have gotten out a long time ago, on the basis
that one doesn't have to be the richest man in the world to be rich enough.

We have yet to see what impact Vista will make. It's possible it will
completely bomb, and that MS will have to do a hasty redesign. OTOH,
people are incredibly resistant to thinking. Chances are that Vista will
be a success.

Just the other day I expressed the opinion that I didn't see what Office
2003 had that Office 2000 didn't (sure, they'll be differences, but what
specific features do they intend to use in 2003 that isn't in 2000). But
in people's minds "it's 2003".
 
M

Man-wai Chang

hhmm. I wonder if there's data available to show that the downfall
of a software company begins when its products become bloatware?

I would never understand why M$ Word was so big compared to the good old
WordPerfect 5.1 (if not 6.0). WP 5.1 could be fitted on a 1.4M diskette
that offers more or less the same amount of features as in Word!

--
.~. Might, Courage, Vision, SINCERITY. http://www.linux-sxs.org
/ v \ Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and Farce be with you!
/( _ )\ (Ubuntu 6.06) Linux 2.6.16.20
^ ^ 16:51:01 up 10 days 2:34 0 users load average: 1.01 1.00 1.00
news://news.3home.net news://news.hkpcug.org news://news.newsgroup.com.hk
 
A

Anne Carle

I would never understand why M$ Word was so big compared to the good old
WordPerfect 5.1 (if not 6.0). WP 5.1 could be fitted on a 1.4M diskette
that offers more or less the same amount of features as in Word!
Interesting...probably the majority of us who do medical transcription
(sci.med.transcription) still use WP 5.1 because of its features and
simplicity. It's a dynamite program!

Anne/Ohio
 
H

hummingbird

I would never understand why M$ Word was so big compared to the good old
WordPerfect 5.1 (if not 6.0). WP 5.1 could be fitted on a 1.4M diskette
that offers more or less the same amount of features as in Word!

Like this you mean?:
http://www.toucano.plus.com/MS-Word-latest_version.gif

In my experience, that's fairly typical for MS products.

Even installing something relatively simple from MS like a document
viewer, takes up megabytes of HDD and endless reg keys.
 
J

John Jay Smith

what Office 2003 had that Office 2000 didn't


But Office 2007 wanted to do something new and some retarded designer came
up with the ribbon idea.
(its the new way you will access the office functions). This person who had
this notion
(it had to start out in somebody's brain) should be given the Darwin award.

I could accept the ribbon interface IF everything could be customized. But
guess what? They made it on purpose so that it can be customized very
little! The reason for this was that in the old way of office 2003 and
before the toolbars would be a mess, others would close, they would change
by mistake and simple users had no idea how to fix them. So? Couldn't they
make a LOCK feature like the Windows taskbar? (or something similar even
better?)

They seem to want to do things differently in the vista era, mainly for
marketing reasons.
Different is not bad, as long as its better.
I love different... I love new things...
I am a guy who always has the latest and greatest programs on my computer...
but these
"improvements" make my stomach tumble.

I see the press tearing down MS after some professionals start using their
new products...
They cant talk much yet because of the "beta" excuse.

Vista has changed my opinion 180 degrees about MS. It seems that Gates cares
no longer.. and it shows.

What is happening to Microsoft is not new. It has happened to other
companies too.... but I didn't imagine
that some of the brightest people in the world were capable of such stupid
things.
 
C

Caesar Romano

hhmm. I wonder if there's data available to show that the downfall
of a software company begins when its products become bloatware?

Addressing the downfall of a software (and hardware) company, read two
books:

Hard Drive : Bill Gates and the Making of the Microsoft Empire
(Paperback)
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/08...002-6270183-6177655?s=books&v=glance&n=283155

and

Big Blues : The Unmaking of IBM (Hardcover)
by Paul Carroll
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/05...002-6270183-6177655?s=books&v=glance&n=283155

Two excellent and very books that tell the story from two perspectives
of the rise of MS and the fall of IBM (although IBM is certainly not
gone by any stretch).

What's really interesting is how MS was drawn into the OS business
almost against their will by happenstance. (The quy (??Kendrick??) who
owned CPM didn't want to sign the onerous IBM non-disclosure
agreement. IBM went to MS, MS says "..no, we only do BASIC here.." and
sends IBM back to the CPM guy who still won't sign the non-disclosure
agreement. So IBM goes back to MS and brow-beats them into doing an
OS.

Now here's where Gates is brilliant: Instead of wanting exhorbant
royalties on the new OS, which is what IBM expected MS to try to rip
IBM off on, Gates wants very minimal royalties BUT wants the
non-IBM-hardware (i.e. the "PC-compatible" market) rights to whatever
OS is developed. IBM is thrilled by this because at the time there
*was NO PC-compatible market* and IBM never thought there would be
one.
 
M

Man-wai Chang

Interesting...probably the majority of us who do medical transcription
(sci.med.transcription) still use WP 5.1 because of its features and
simplicity. It's a dynamite program!

I have seen a local university using WP5.1 as a mail client (via its
macros).

--
.~. Might, Courage, Vision, SINCERITY. http://www.linux-sxs.org
/ v \ Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and Farce be with you!
/( _ )\ (Ubuntu 6.06) Linux 2.6.16.20
^ ^ 20:55:01 up 10 days 6:38 0 users load average: 1.00 1.00 1.00
news://news.3home.net news://news.hkpcug.org news://news.newsgroup.com.hk
 
M

Man-wai Chang

In my experience, that's fairly typical for MS products.
Even installing something relatively simple from MS like a document
viewer, takes up megabytes of HDD and endless reg keys.

Making a software big is a good way to hide secret doors... :)

--
.~. Might, Courage, Vision, SINCERITY. http://www.linux-sxs.org
/ v \ Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and Farce be with you!
/( _ )\ (Ubuntu 6.06) Linux 2.6.16.20
^ ^ 20:55:01 up 10 days 6:38 0 users load average: 1.00 1.00 1.00
news://news.3home.net news://news.hkpcug.org news://news.newsgroup.com.hk
 
H

hummingbird

Addressing the downfall of a software (and hardware) company, read two
books:

Hard Drive : Bill Gates and the Making of the Microsoft Empire
(Paperback)
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/08...002-6270183-6177655?s=books&v=glance&n=283155

and

Big Blues : The Unmaking of IBM (Hardcover)
by Paul Carroll
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/05...002-6270183-6177655?s=books&v=glance&n=283155

Two excellent and very books that tell the story from two perspectives
of the rise of MS and the fall of IBM (although IBM is certainly not
gone by any stretch).

What's really interesting is how MS was drawn into the OS business
almost against their will by happenstance. (The quy (??Kendrick??) who
owned CPM didn't want to sign the onerous IBM non-disclosure
agreement. IBM went to MS, MS says "..no, we only do BASIC here.." and
sends IBM back to the CPM guy who still won't sign the non-disclosure
agreement. So IBM goes back to MS and brow-beats them into doing an
OS.

Now here's where Gates is brilliant: Instead of wanting exhorbant
royalties on the new OS, which is what IBM expected MS to try to rip
IBM off on, Gates wants very minimal royalties BUT wants the
non-IBM-hardware (i.e. the "PC-compatible" market) rights to whatever
OS is developed. IBM is thrilled by this because at the time there
*was NO PC-compatible market* and IBM never thought there would be
one.

Thanks.
Having spent my career working for IBM, for some time in Entry Systems
Product Management in Europe HQ, I know something about the rise of
Microsoft. In those days the major problem we had was with MS-DOS,
sloppily written and with many bugs and limitations.
Gates was never highly thought of inside IBM, often described as an
untrustworthy cowboy and clearly struggled to step up to the role of
dealing with the prof IBM Corporation. Tensions grew from very early
days and continued when Gates developed Windows. The rest is history.

There are many variations of the debates which went on between
IBM and Gates in the early days, few of them very accurate.
I knew some of those in Boca Raton who were personally involved.

IBM's biggest single problem with the intro of the PC was that too
many of those in control at corp level only ever wanted it to be an
intelligent terminal with v/limited computing capacity, to protect the
huge revenues of existing product lines and in fairness, few knew much
about the technological developments which would occur allowing PC
performace to rise. IBM's open architecture PC family 1 series was
intended to create and expand the global PC market under IBM control.
PC/2 was intended to regain control after it had been lost and MCA
was all about that, despite it being marketed as something different.

Again, the rest is history.
 
C

Caesar Romano

Having spent my career working for IBM, for some time in Entry Systems
Product Management in Europe HQ, I know something about the rise of
Microsoft. In those days the major problem we had was with MS-DOS,
sloppily written and with many bugs and limitations.
Gates was never highly thought of inside IBM, often described as an
untrustworthy cowboy and clearly struggled to step up to the role of
dealing with the prof IBM Corporation. Tensions grew from very early
days and continued when Gates developed Windows. The rest is history.

There are many variations of the debates which went on between
IBM and Gates in the early days, few of them very accurate.
I knew some of those in Boca Raton who were personally involved.

IBM's biggest single problem with the intro of the PC was that too
many of those in control at corp level only ever wanted it to be an
intelligent terminal with v/limited computing capacity, to protect the
huge revenues of existing product lines and in fairness, few knew much
about the technological developments which would occur allowing PC
performace to rise. IBM's open architecture PC family 1 series was
intended to create and expand the global PC market under IBM control.
PC/2 was intended to regain control after it had been lost and MCA
was all about that, despite it being marketed as something different.

Again, the rest is history.

Yes, the book (Big Blues) describes what you speak of above. It also
describes how once the PC and PC/AT became wildly successful that the
big product managers at IBM who at first didn't want anything to do
with Boca Raton, suddenly be began fighting over getting a piece of
the action and in doing so destroyed the original development group.
True?

BTW, IMO the PC/2 and the MCA were the death knell for the IBM PC
business. I was managing a small computer group at the time MCA was
introduced and after looking at the specs, we all decided that we
would never buy it for the group. I guess a lot of others felt the
same way.
 
L

Luis Cobian

John Jay Smith said:
But Office 2007 wanted to do something new and some retarded designer came
up with the ribbon idea.

The ribbon idea is a great solution for very complex interfaces. Of
course not for Notepad, but it works incredibly well in Office, IMO.
 
H

hummingbird

Yes, the book (Big Blues) describes what you speak of above. It also
describes how once the PC and PC/AT became wildly successful that the
big product managers at IBM who at first didn't want anything to do
with Boca Raton, suddenly be began fighting over getting a piece of
the action and in doing so destroyed the original development group.
True?

Yes that's true. When the PC was first planned for intro in the EMEA
region (Europe, Middle East & Africa), it was decided by the CMC in
New York to locate EMEA Entry Systems HQ in London to avoid it being
sucked into Big Blue's standard beaurocracy (designed for a mainframe
corp selling low-volume products with high profits per box, not
high-volume PC products with low profits per box).

That was in about late 1979/early 1980.

The rest of EMEA Big Blue HQ was located in Paris. The folks in Paris
never really accepted that ES was none of their business but following
a long tug-o-war between Paris and London, in late 1987 the Entry
Systems HQ in London was relocated to Paris and it no longer operated
as a seperate IBU (Independent Business Unit). That was timed for a
few months after the PS/2 was announced in April 1987. I was
personally invited to move to Paris to continue my job but declined,
having worked in Paris some years earlier in another IBM job and I
didn't want another 3yr+ stint over there.

Helping the argument for consolidation was the unfortunate fact that
in developing the PC on a budget, Boca had produced a box which used
a different architecture (ASCII - pinched from the teletype) to IBM
mainframes (EBCDIC) and also the S/38 which used Extended-EBCDIC.
That basic incompatibility continued to haunt IBM for years.
Networking PCs into mainframes was a real problem.

What had happened is that the PC had become massively more popular
than planned or expected (but as I predicted :)) and its shortcomings
were then blamed on Boca & Co, whereas the real problem was its
success not its failure, and the limited timescale/budget that Boca
had to develop the box originally.
There was also the internal political power struggle by those in Big
Blue who feared that the PC business was becoming *too powerful*.
Big Blue product Generals would have none of that.
BTW, IMO the PC/2 and the MCA were the death knell for the IBM PC
business.

Fair comment. the choice for IBM at the time was v/difficult. On the
one hand, the open architecture of PC family 1 meant that OEM was
producing unlimited add-ons and upgrades which were often better than
IBM's own kit and were beginning to drive the product up market which
IBM never really wanted: great risk of IBM losing control; on the
other hand PS/2 sought to regain control with MCA and OS/2 but as
we see it was too late - Pandora's box had been opened.

With Windows coming on strong, the AT architecture became more
popular, not less, and everything PC today has derived from the AT,
not PS/2 and MCA. The main reason of course is that PS/2 and MCA
were closed architectures, so OEM avoided it altogether and stayed
with the AT.
I was managing a small computer group at the time MCA was
introduced and after looking at the specs, we all decided that we
would never buy it for the group. I guess a lot of others felt the
same way.

Indeed.
MCA was marketed as having a superior and faster bus than AT but
in reality it was introduced to regain control of the market, not for
technological reasons. I doubt if IBM have ever admitted this.
 
A

Al Klein

Interesting...probably the majority of us who do medical transcription
(sci.med.transcription) still use WP 5.1 because of its features and
simplicity. It's a dynamite program!

I wonder if you people are still using the MT dictionary developed by
a gal I knew back in the early 90s.
 
A

Al Klein

We have yet to see what impact Vista will make. It's possible it will
completely bomb, and that MS will have to do a hasty redesign. OTOH,
people are incredibly resistant to thinking. Chances are that Vista will
be a success.

A financial success. But I wonder how many upgrades there will have
to be before they stop supporting it. (How many dozens or hundreds of
upgrades have there been to XP? I've lost count.)
 

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