OT: Is Anyone Enrolled in EMPower for ISVs?

[Charles Law]

Has anyone here enrolled on the EMPower for ISVs programme, and what is your
experience?

As a software developer I am considering this (mainly as a route to getting
reduced price software and development tools, as the likely cost of
upgrading to VS 2005 is about £470 in the UK), but would like to hear from
people who have already gone down this road. Whilst I develop commercial
software, it is mostly bespoke, so the 'resalable aspect of the programme
concerns me a bit. Also, my company does not have a web site at present
(what? I hear you cry), so does this cause a problem.

Any insight would be appreciated.

TIA

Charles

 

[clintonG]

I'm involved and it is a great opportunity that is without question
beneficial to independent software developers. Yes, the fact that you are a
lame and have no website does matter ;-) A website is one of several
requirements, noting none of the requirements are really that demanding and
all of which are reasonable and can be met by any and all developer(s) who
understand how to deliver professionally acceptable results and make a
committment to do so.

So let's get down to business. Do you want to hire me to build you a
website? ;-)

<%= Clinton Gallagher
METROmilwaukee (sm) "A Regional Information Service"
NET csgallagher AT metromilwaukee.com
URL http://metromilwaukee.com/
URL http://clintongallagher.metromilwaukee.com/

 

[Charles Law]

Clinton, you make a compelling case, and as fine a web site as ever was seen
I am sure you would create for me, but I fear I shall have to decline at
this time.

I got on the bush telegraph to Microsoft, who accepted that bespoke
solutions are acceptable but that a web site is a must. I shall first have
to find me some web space, and then set about fashioning a 'website' out of
some old cloth and whalebone that I have lying about the place; I read a
book on it once.

Charles

 

[clintonG]

Thank you for the compliment Charles. I was only kidding around when I asked
if you wanted to hire me but then again, you never know. For example I
talked to a C++ developer just this week who has no clue how to build a
website. He was complaining that his hosting provider would not support an
ActiveX control he wants to build. This guy thought he needed a .dll just to
load a .gif file in a page after the results from a database query
determined which .gif file would need to be loaded.

The Empower ISV website requirement is very minimal. The pages at
METROmilwaukee.com were approved for example. Their emphasis as I was
instructed was to build the minimal navigation and page elements you can
observe at that site noting the site is very shallow and has been for some
time but the explanation why is not important to our discussion about the
Empower ISV.

Just remember, you are going to be expected to actually create and publish a
saleable product -- or service -- that uses the Microsoft products and
technologies the program specifies.

As for hosting providers I've been doing business with WebHost4Life.com
which I've been very satisfied with for the past several years. They have
very good prices, an outstanding set of features and decent support.

I'm curious though Charles. You write like one of those guys from 'across
the pond' who talk funny all the time ;-)
What the heck is a bespoke solution?

<%= Clinton Gallagher

 

[Charles Law]

Just remember, you are going to be expected to actually create and publish

a saleable product -- or service -- that uses the Microsoft products and
technologies the program specifies.

This was one of the issues I wanted to discuss with MS. I use their products
all the time, and develop solutions using them. However, each solution is
special to a client (which is what is meant by bespoke). A client has a
detailed set of requirements that I must design to, but what they don't
specify is the language or environment. Therefore, I am free to choose the
technology. When the job is done, I supply the finished program and go onto
the next one. I could not possibly sell the application to another client as
they would have no use for it, and therein lies the rub: it is not
'resalable'.

Anyway, the guy at MS said that that was ok, so long as I still declared
that I had produced such a thing, even though no one else would ever want to
buy it.

What I do have to ensure is that I declare myself (and my company) as an
ISV, and provide my name and contact details on the web site. I am a bit
concerned about the last bit. For example, if I put my company e-mail
address on the web site, won't it get scraped sooner rather than later,
resulting in a barrage of spam? I am presuming that there is a way to
obfuscate it on the site, perhaps, to get round this problem, but I haven't
looked in to it yet.

As for hosting providers I've been doing business with WebHost4Life.com
which I've been very satisfied with for the past several years. They have
very good prices, an outstanding set of features and decent support.

I don't know if we have them over here. I use BT as my ISP, and they have
sub-contracted their web space provision to Geocities, whoever they are. I
must look into registering a domain and getting some of my own space.

I'm curious though Charles. You write like one of those guys from 'across
the pond' who talk funny all the time ;-)

Ah yes, I be from Olde England, or as we say Good Old Blighty.

TTFN

Charles

 

[Cor Ligthert [MVP]]

Charles,

I just step in a little bit reading your nice conversation with Clinton
however not in the mood trying to understand you.

For example, if I put my company e-mail address on the web site, won't it
get scraped sooner rather than later, resulting in a barrage of spam?

For this you can use a piece of Javascript, at the time you need it than
just reply in the newsgroup, contact Ken or me direct or just take it from
Internet.

http://www.vb-tips.com/default.aspx

Succes

Cor

 

[Charles Law]

Hi Cor

Thanks. Once I have got some proper web space and a simple site created I
will get back to you.

Cheers.

Charles

 

[clintonG]

Now that you've explained what a bespoke application is I can tell you that
you can in fact develop those types of applications and meet the
requirements of the Empower ISV program. Furthermore, how the heck would I
know what a bespoke application is supposed to be? I'm not the one that
talks funny ;-)

So it seems your applications are 'developed to spec' as it is it commonly
stated in the US . We talk funny in the US too okay ? The customer
provides the service provider with 'specifications' or 'features' or
'requirements' the customer wants in their software and you, the developer
builds the software right? That's a common business model. As for the
Empower ISV program if the product or hosted service is 'saleable' and if it
meets the requirements to build the ISV product or service using certain
Microsoft products and platforms the Empower ISV program requires then your
business model is not an issue.

Microsoft does not want to tell us how to run our business or what business
model we are supposed to be using. Microsoft just wants to make it possible
for ISVs to use Microsoft products to develop ISV products or services. We
call this a 'win-win' business relationship here in the US. Microsoft wins
because they sell more software and earn more revenue selling upgrades. The
developer wins because they get to do all the work. %-)

Only kidding, the developer wins because he or she gets most if not all of
Microsoft's software products at low cost, becomes certified as a Microsoft
Business Partner and enjoys many other co-marketing and support benefits
once they meet the requirements.

So ask yourself a simple question; who has higher credibility in a
customer's mind? A guy who hangs out in a newsgroup answering questions and
is then named an MVP with no other credentials,products or services for sale
or a guy (or group) that has proven he or they are skilled software
developers, have products or services for sale, have proven themselves by
subjecting their work to testing and having met all requirements are then
named a Certified Microsoft Business Partner? Hello? In the US this is
called a 'no brainer' meaning even Cor should understand this (nyuk nyuk
nyuk nyuk).

So listen up Mr. Law. Even a website that hosts applications can qualify.
Let me repeat that because it is a fact. Even a website that hosts
applications can qualify. The point is, Microsoft wants the Empower ISV to
build software products or services using certain Microsoft products and
platforms. For example, SQL Server, Windows Server 2003 and so on.
Obviously, I do not want to talk about my business plan okay? Once you
understand that is all that is going on you can work your business model
into the Empower ISV program with very little change in the way you do
business and maybe no change at all.

Furthermore, let me help you understand a basic fact of life. There are only
24 hours in a day right? How wise is it to continue to build software on
spec when there are only so many hours in a day, when you can only work with
a limited number of customers, and can only earn a limited amount of money?
Even if you are the smartest and most efficient software developer there are
still only 24 hours in a day. The smart developers are now developing
software sold as a service so the software can be sold over and over again
at any time of day or night to any customer anywhere on the planet. Hello?
Think about it because it is smarter to consider changing your business
model but in the end the decision is yours. I'm just telling you it is smart
to do so but the Empower ISV program does not and will not require it.

Note there is also a testing requirement and a fee must be paid to a 3rd
party testing organization who will review and test your software. I won't
discuss the details here but once you are in the program you will be
assigned a person who will be your primary contact. That person can and will
explain any and all questions you will have and will help you work out all
of the questions you may have. These people have been very helpful working
with me. Very very helpful. I see no reason why your experience should be
any different.

The Empower ISV program is a great opportunity. All of this time I am
spending talking to you is time I should be spending writing, debugging, and
testing my own applications. So get going dude, a future of oportunity is
waiting for you... all you have to do is reach out and take it.

<%= Clinton Gallagher
METROmilwaukee (sm) "A Regional Information Service"
NET csgallagher AT metromilwaukee.com
URL http://metromilwaukee.com/
URL http://clintongallagher.metromilwaukee.com/

 

[Cor Ligthert [MVP]]

Clinton,

You use my name, do you mean with Cor me.

No, I don't understand you, do you mean that you want Charles as a kind of
free of cost business partner and built the site and host it for free from
him.

And that is than nyuk (New York for the United Kingdom)

I will gladly know if I understand you right,

Cor

 

[Charles Law]

Food for thought indeed.

Charles

Now that you've explained what a bespoke application is I can tell you
that you can in fact develop those types of applications and meet the
requirements of the Empower ISV program. Furthermore, how the heck would I
know what a bespoke application is supposed to be? I'm not the one that
talks funny ;-)

So it seems your applications are 'developed to spec' as it is it commonly
stated in the US . We talk funny in the US too okay ? The customer
provides the service provider with 'specifications' or 'features' or
'requirements' the customer wants in their software and you, the developer
builds the software right? That's a common business model. As for the
Empower ISV program if the product or hosted service is 'saleable' and if
it meets the requirements to build the ISV product or service using
certain Microsoft products and platforms the Empower ISV program requires
then your business model is not an issue.

Microsoft does not want to tell us how to run our business or what
business model we are supposed to be using. Microsoft just wants to make
it possible for ISVs to use Microsoft products to develop ISV products or
services. We call this a 'win-win' business relationship here in the US.
Microsoft wins because they sell more software and earn more revenue
selling upgrades. The developer wins because they get to do all the work.
%-)

Only kidding, the developer wins because he or she gets most if not all of
Microsoft's software products at low cost, becomes certified as a
Microsoft Business Partner and enjoys many other co-marketing and support
benefits once they meet the requirements.

So ask yourself a simple question; who has higher credibility in a
customer's mind? A guy who hangs out in a newsgroup answering questions
and is then named an MVP with no other credentials,products or services
for sale or a guy (or group) that has proven he or they are skilled
software developers, have products or services for sale, have proven
themselves by subjecting their work to testing and having met all
requirements are then named a Certified Microsoft Business Partner? Hello?
In the US this is called a 'no brainer' meaning even Cor should understand
this (nyuk nyuk nyuk nyuk).

So listen up Mr. Law. Even a website that hosts applications can qualify.
Let me repeat that because it is a fact. Even a website that hosts
applications can qualify. The point is, Microsoft wants the Empower ISV to
build software products or services using certain Microsoft products and
platforms. For example, SQL Server, Windows Server 2003 and so on.
Obviously, I do not want to talk about my business plan okay? Once you
understand that is all that is going on you can work your business model
into the Empower ISV program with very little change in the way you do
business and maybe no change at all.

Furthermore, let me help you understand a basic fact of life. There are
only 24 hours in a day right? How wise is it to continue to build software
on spec when there are only so many hours in a day, when you can only work
with a limited number of customers, and can only earn a limited amount of
money? Even if you are the smartest and most efficient software developer
there are still only 24 hours in a day. The smart developers are now
developing software sold as a service so the software can be sold over and
over again at any time of day or night to any customer anywhere on the
planet. Hello? Think about it because it is smarter to consider changing
your business model but in the end the decision is yours. I'm just telling
you it is smart to do so but the Empower ISV program does not and will not
require it.

Note there is also a testing requirement and a fee must be paid to a 3rd
party testing organization who will review and test your software. I won't
discuss the details here but once you are in the program you will be
assigned a person who will be your primary contact. That person can and
will explain any and all questions you will have and will help you work
out all of the questions you may have. These people have been very helpful
working with me. Very very helpful. I see no reason why your experience
should be any different.

The Empower ISV program is a great opportunity. All of this time I am
spending talking to you is time I should be spending writing, debugging,
and testing my own applications. So get going dude, a future of oportunity
is waiting for you... all you have to do is reach out and take it.

<%= Clinton Gallagher
METROmilwaukee (sm) "A Regional Information Service"
NET csgallagher AT metromilwaukee.com
URL http://metromilwaukee.com/
URL http://clintongallagher.metromilwaukee.com/

 

[clintonG]

No Cor, I was kidding around because Charles is a software developer who
does not have a website yet.

The 'nyuk nyuk nyuk' is a way to write a 'chuckle' which is a type of
laughing made famous in America by a TV and movie character called "Curly"
who was one of the Three Stooges comedy team. Load the Three Stooges
homepage at [1]. Curly is the guy in the middle. If you want to hear what
nyuk, nyuk, nyuk sounds like load the sound page [2] and select one of the
nyuk sounds from the ListBox on the left which will play the .asf sound in
Windows Media Player.


<%= Clinton Gallagher
METROmilwaukee (sm) "A Regional Information Service"
NET csgallagher AT metromilwaukee.com
URL http://metromilwaukee.com/
URL http://clintongallagher.metromilwaukee.com/

[1] http://www.threestooges.com/
[2] http://www.threestooges.com/sounds/

 

[clintonG]

Best wishes to you in your endeavors Charles...

<%= Clinton Gallagher

 

[Cor Ligthert [MVP]]

Clinton,

Did you really think that I was serious.

I had the idea that you was not therefore you got this answer in that style.

)

Cor

 

[clintonG]

I'm okay. You're okay. Okay?

<%= Clinton Gallagher

 

[Charles Law]

Cor

I am ready for the JavaScript to obfuscate my e-mail address on a web page.
I looked at the link you gave, but couldn't find anything obvious to do
this.

Charles

 

[Cor Ligthert [MVP]]

Charles

Is this clear this is an very simple htmlbutton.

<body>
<INPUT type="button" language="javascript" onclick="MailCharles()"
value="Mail me" >
</body>
<script language="javascript">
function MailCharles()
{window.location='mail' + 'to:Charles' + '@AtHisServer.GB?subject=A question
about whatever?';}
</script>

Cor

 

[Charles Law]

Cor

That's great, thanks. The difficulty, in the end, was persuading Microsoft
Publisher to add a button and script to a web page, but I have done it now.

Publisher has some nice features, but I am beginning to think that it is not
the best tool for creating and managing a web site. What other tools are
there? I have tried Dreamweaver, but that doesn't come across as
particularly friendly.

Charles

 

[Cor Ligthert [MVP]]

Charles,

From the first start of Frontpage Express have I liked Frontpage as easy
tool to create quick very nice looking websites. Be aware that as far as it
was at least in past, complete FrontPage needs a server with Frontpage
extentions.

http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/FX010858021033.aspx

However I have not used that for a long while because I can write easily
HTML, CSS and Javascript and than becomes Visual Studio Net a real great
tool. Not only for aspx however too for very clean HTML pages on the most
standard webserver. So if you are quick in that, give that than first a
try.

Just my idea

Cor

 

[Charles Law]

Hi Cor

Thanks. A valuable, and valued insight.

Charles