OpenOffice.org 1.9.122

[John Corliss]

John -

FYI - OOo changing Java technology any time soon. I know a couple of
the OOo people (Daniel Carrera being one), word is, Java solves too many
problems for them. Adoption of Java is for the duration in OOo. Do
there you have it.

And of course the fact that Sun Microsystem is the major sponsor of OOo
has little to do with it too. 80)>

But come on. Java has security problems, but what doesn't nowadays?
It's a hell of a lot more secure than ActiveX,

Which I also don't use for the most part (exception being MS Update).

which happily runs around
on 90% of the systems out there, and God know what it's doing. At
least you can see when Java spawns a process,

As in "Red Sheriff"?

so good judgment and a
good firewall can keep a lot of this stuff out of your system. Not
being snide, just asking - isn't rejecting Java just a little TOO
paranoid?

Naw. Not in my opinion. Besides, I have *never*, not even once, found a
compelling reason for having it on my system. And I'm sorry, not even
OOo qualifies as that because I have the absolute best word processor
out there. Unfortunately, it's $ware so I can't say that it's anything
more than a perfect word processor. As for all that other crap
(spreadsheet, database, etc.) I don't have any use for it anyway. To me,
the fact that OOo is pretty much like MS Word in the way it formats a
document, rather than Word Perfect, so that it could use Reveal Codes,
leaves me cold. And *that* will probably never change either. I know
there's a supposed side project to try and implement that feature into
OOo, but frankly, I don't give it much hope. Not even sure if they're
still working on it in fact.

Still, I suppose if a person needs to view and edit a Word document and
can't afford MS's bloated and overpriced shit, then OOo is a good option.

 

[Sparky]

John Corliss wrote:

Still, I suppose if a person needs to view and edit a Word document and
can't afford MS's bloated and overpriced shit, then OOo is a good option.

Hyperbole aside for a moment;

OpenOffice is much more than a Word viewer/editor. Anyone who believes
otherwise is misinformed.

regards,
-Sparky

 

[John Corliss]

John Corliss wrote:


Hyperbole aside for a moment;

Hyperbole? There isn't anything exaggerated about what I said except for
the way I misspelled "software".

OpenOffice is much more than a Word viewer/editor.

I did say, "view and *edit*" a Word document.

Anyone who believes otherwise is misinformed.

I agree. That's why I said:

"I suppose if a person needs to view and edit a Word document and can't
afford MS's bloated and overpriced shit, then OOo is a good option."

 

[Sparky]

Hyperbole? There isn't anything exaggerated about what I said except for
the way I misspelled "software".



I did say, "view and *edit*" a Word document.



I agree. That's why I said:

"I suppose if a person needs to view and edit a Word document and can't
afford MS's bloated and overpriced shit, then OOo is a good option."

John;

I apologize if my post came off as antagonistic. It was a knee-jerk
response to reading the "view and edit" line. What I should have said
was that

OpenOffice is an excellent suite of office applications including a word
processor, spreadsheet, presentation and database.

The gist is that OpenOffice does a lot more than simply "view and edit"
MS Word. More information can be found here:
http://www.openoffice.org/.

regards,
-Sparky

 

[John Corliss]

John;
I apologize if my post came off as antagonistic. It was a knee-jerk
response to reading the "view and edit" line. What I should have said
was that

OpenOffice is an excellent suite of office applications including a word
processor, spreadsheet, presentation and database.

The gist is that OpenOffice does a lot more than simply "view and edit"
MS Word. More information can be found here: http://www.openoffice.org/.

Limiting my objections to the word processing module, I suppose if a
person is used to Microsoft Word, then OOo is a Godsend. However, I have
long used WordPerfect and consider it to be the all time champ of word
processors. I have worked in several environments where I have to use MS
Word and it drives me bonkers. I can't see what's happening to the
document and often, problems that I have a real hard time getting around
a problem. The same thing applies to OOo. WordPerfect, on the other
hand, leaves absolutely no doubt about what's going on in the document.
It formats the document via a technique that's similar to HTML coding.
The onset and end of each formatting is clearly defined and displayed to
the user.

I know of no freeware that has a "reveal codes" feature like WordPerfect.

 

[David]

Limiting my objections to the word processing module, I suppose if a
person is used to Microsoft Word, then OOo is a Godsend. However, I have
long used WordPerfect and consider it to be the all time champ of word
processors. I have worked in several environments where I have to use MS
Word and it drives me bonkers. I can't see what's happening to the
document and often, problems that I have a real hard time getting around
a problem. The same thing applies to OOo. WordPerfect, on the other
hand, leaves absolutely no doubt about what's going on in the document.
It formats the document via a technique that's similar to HTML coding.
The onset and end of each formatting is clearly defined and displayed to
the user.

I know of no freeware that has a "reveal codes" feature like WordPerfect.

Open Office reveals codes with no problem as far as I am aware.

I have to disagree with you about the utility of Word Perfect. I
considered it to be a clumsy, awkward piece of shit from it's first
implementation back in the early '90s. Well that is when I was first
exposed to its vagaries. None of the key functions were intuitive.

I started out using WordStar and, an Amstrad Special, Protext. I had
no problems switching from one to the other and back again. I used
several other programs with no problems in switching between them and
WS or Protext until I came to use Word Perfect. F7 for Help, For
crying out loud. Or was that to save and exit? I can't remember. No
key combination was intuitive.

Of course then M$ came along and stuffed it all up but at least the M$
key presses meant something. CTRL-C for Copy fits unlike the WP
alternatives. The last time I looked at WP it even offered to allow
you to use the MS keypresses if that was your training. It was still
clumsy in my opinion with obscure choices on the menus.

However if that is your bent then you are welcome to it. Just, please,
don't try to pull me into your bad habits. ;-)}}}

I will not comment further as this is off-topic here. I apologise for
the rant.

 

[John Corliss]

Open Office reveals codes with no problem as far as I am aware.

It does the task no better than Microsoft Word. WordPerfect, on the
other hand, shows literally everything. It shows where a formating code
starts and where it ends, and it shows *all* the formating codes. There
is absolutely NO confusion about why something is happening unless the
user has the mentality of a chimp. A well implemented Reveal Codes
feature is what would make OOo a killer app but it's not going to happen
most likely.

I have to disagree with you about the utility of Word Perfect. I
considered it to be a clumsy, awkward piece of shit from it's first
implementation back in the early '90s. Well that is when I was first
exposed to its vagaries. None of the key functions were intuitive.

You are, of course, referring to the DOS version of the program. The
Windows versions have no such problems, provided you take the time to
change your preferences. Besides, this is a bullshit topic because
everybody knows that program preferences are based to a HUGE degree on
the interface that a person learns first.

I started out using WordStar and, an Amstrad Special, Protext. I had
no problems switching from one to the other and back again. I used
several other programs with no problems in switching between them and
WS or Protext until I came to use Word Perfect. F7 for Help, For
crying out loud. Or was that to save and exit? I can't remember. No
key combination was intuitive.

You obviously overlooked WP's keyboard preference, which allows Word
compatible settings.

Of course then M$ came along and stuffed it all up but at least the M$
key presses meant something. CTRL-C for Copy fits unlike the WP
alternatives. The last time I looked at WP it even offered to allow
you to use the MS keypresses if that was your training. It was still
clumsy in my opinion with obscure choices on the menus.

As I said, it's just not what you were trained on. Regardless, my main
reason for bringing up the program was to point out the usefulness of
the Reveal Codes feature.

http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/General/RevealCodes.htm

Nice article, but the MVP makes the following idiotic remark:

"By using all these visual cues, and by understanding at least a little
of the difference between the Word and WordPerfect object models, you
will gradually be able to wean yourself from the desire for 'Reveal Codes.'"

Why on earth would I have the SLIGHTEST desire to do so?

However if that is your bent then you are welcome to it. Just, please,
don't try to pull me into your bad habits. ;-)}}}

I don't understand in the slightest how making such an innocent remark
could be construed to be trying to pull you into my bad habits. Besides,
IMO using MS Word is probably the worst habit of all.

I was mainly referring to the Reveal Codes feature. You have somehow
extended that into meaning that I believe that OOo should behave like WP
in its entirety and you *know* that's not what I meant.

I will not comment further as this is off-topic here. I apologise for
the rant.

Discussing a commercial program is *on topic* in this group if the
program is being used as an example of a feature one is looking for in a
freeware program. That was mainly what I was doing.

 

[Michael Salem]

David wrote:

....

until I came to use Word Perfect. F7 for Help, For
crying out loud. Or was that to save and exit? I can't remember. No
key combination was intuitive.

....

When Word Perfect was dominant it came with a function key template
which showed the functions in words for the unshifted, shifted, Ctrl,
and Alt combinations. So you wouldn't think of this as pressing F7, but
as the Help key. We have become used to pressing F1 for Help; but there
was no standard then. Unfortunately WP spent huge amounts of effort
making a graphical MS-DOS word processor, which suddenly became non-
standard and clunky when OS/2 and Windows 3 came out, with programs
using the GUI's functionality. Many people swear by WP for Windows, but
MS became too big, and the WP company sold the product, I think first to
Novell, then Corel (?)

A bit belated, but I've been offline.

Best wishes,

 

[John Corliss]

When Word Perfect was dominant it came with a function key template
which showed the functions in words for the unshifted, shifted, Ctrl,
and Alt combinations. So you wouldn't think of this as pressing F7, but
as the Help key. We have become used to pressing F1 for Help; but there
was no standard then. Unfortunately WP spent huge amounts of effort
making a graphical MS-DOS word processor, which suddenly became non-
standard and clunky when OS/2 and Windows 3 came out, with programs
using the GUI's functionality. Many people swear by WP for Windows, but
MS became too big, and the WP company sold the product, I think first to
Novell, then Corel (?)

Correct. And MS Word became big by Microsoft using its position as a
monopoly with lots of money. They had computer vendors install MS Office
for very little or next to nothing on their new systems (especially
those sold to businesses and institutions) and as a standard feature.
Once the user base got large enough, the free ride ended.

This tactic did not endear them to either WordPerfect OR Sun
Microsystems. Novell sued MS:

http://tinyurl.com/9c993
http://www.techweb.com/wire/ebiz/162100751


and Sun Microsystems now funds OOo as an attempt to undermine MS Office
predominance in the market.

A bit belated, but I've been offline.

WordPerfect also has since then been configurable to use almost all the
same keys as Word, so disliking WordPerfect because of "non-intuitive
key functions" is no longer relevant and hasn't been since WordPerfect 6
or 6.1 (the latter of which I still use and love.) And as I said,
WordPerfect's Reveal Codes feature is what would make OpenOffice.org
overtake MS Word.

People just don't know any better, so they mindlessly continue to use MS
Office. Microsoft's greed, however will end this. Now that they believe
they've cornered the market on office suites, they've jacked the price
up to unreasonable levels. OOo on the other hand, is free and version 2
is going to kick ass.

Now if they will just drop the need for Java....

 

[Sparky]

Microsoft's greed, however will end this. Now that they believe
they've cornered the market on office suites, they've jacked the
price up to unreasonable levels.

On the contrary, MS has dropped the price considerably in three markets
of which I'm aware: Corporate, Government and Education. In Edu, for
example, MS is demonstrating its mythic largess by selling Office XP Pro
for about $135 at retail stores, less on-campus. Corporate is getting
the same package for $30 and up depending on number of seats & support
levels.

OOo on the other hand, is free and version 2 is going to kick ass.
Now if they will just drop the need for Java....

Yea, I know. It's a bummer but there are those of us who are
hoping/planning that this is a short-term (1-3 years) solution. Open
source has lead the way to many new solutions, I'm not going to doubt
its ability to score again here.

-Sparky