On-board video disabled?


E

Ed from AZ

Not sure where to start, so I'll throw it out to the experts here.

Someone gave me a Dell desktop. Runs great. I've got XP SP2 on it.
It's got a DVI video card in it, and the digital video to the monitor
works fine.

I would like to connect a second monitor to the on-board output (VGA
monitor to VGA output). But the computer refuses to acknowlege a
ssecond monitor connected. The hardware manager shows the DVI card as
the only video device.

Where would I start to see if I can get the on-board video to work
alongside the DVI card? Is that a driver issue? BIOS? A setting in
the card driver? Should I pull the card and see if the on-board video
returns?

A drop-kick in a good direction would be most welcome!
Ed
 
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S

SC Tom

Ed from AZ said:
Not sure where to start, so I'll throw it out to the experts here.

Someone gave me a Dell desktop. Runs great. I've got XP SP2 on it.
It's got a DVI video card in it, and the digital video to the monitor
works fine.

I would like to connect a second monitor to the on-board output (VGA
monitor to VGA output). But the computer refuses to acknowlege a
ssecond monitor connected. The hardware manager shows the DVI card as
the only video device.

Where would I start to see if I can get the on-board video to work
alongside the DVI card? Is that a driver issue? BIOS? A setting in
the card driver? Should I pull the card and see if the on-board video
returns?

A drop-kick in a good direction would be most welcome!
Ed

The onboard video would be enabled/disabled in BIOS. If you can find a user
manual, check to see if it's possible to use both. On my Asus MB, when using
a PCIe video card, the onboard video is automatically disabled, and cannot
be enabled to output on both sources.
 
P

Paul

Ed said:
Not sure where to start, so I'll throw it out to the experts here.

Someone gave me a Dell desktop. Runs great. I've got XP SP2 on it.
It's got a DVI video card in it, and the digital video to the monitor
works fine.

I would like to connect a second monitor to the on-board output (VGA
monitor to VGA output). But the computer refuses to acknowlege a
ssecond monitor connected. The hardware manager shows the DVI card as
the only video device.

Where would I start to see if I can get the on-board video to work
alongside the DVI card? Is that a driver issue? BIOS? A setting in
the card driver? Should I pull the card and see if the on-board video
returns?

A drop-kick in a good direction would be most welcome!
Ed

Does the add-in video card have more than one connector ? Perhaps
two DVI-I connectors on it ?

If so, you can use a DVI-I to VGA passive adapter, and avoid the headaches.
I'm using one of these right now, to drive a VGA monitor from a dual
DVI video card.

http://images17.newegg.com/is/image/newegg/82-203-020-S01?$S640W$

This is what my video card faceplate looks like. The cross shaped thingy,
with the four dots, is where the VGA analog signals are available. The
passive dongle adapter, picks up RGBHV from those connections, and
puts the VGA on the familiar 15 pin pattern.

http://images10.newegg.com/NeweggImage/productimage/14-130-281-02.jpg

More details on DVI-I are available here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Visual_Interface

*******

Now, to the ugly part. You'd provided no details, as to model number of
the Dell computer, and the make and model number of video card.

On AGP based motherboards, it was popular to disable the built-in video,
as soon as an add-on video card was detected.

On some PCI Express systems, they chose to do the same thing (although
they didn't need to). This disabling is at the BIOS level and may be
totally automated.

Modern PCI Express systems, can accept having both the built-in running
at the same time as the add-on video card. That allows support for
more connectors. With some caveats, as to how Windows may treat multiple
monitors and cards/GPUs.

So, yup, sometimes it works. But probably with a good deal of swearing
along the way :) That's why I'd recommend the dongle adapter, if your
add-in video card has multiple connectors available.

There are very few deceptive video card designs, but you should know they
exist. There were a couple, their price point is below $50, they have
both a VGA and a DVI connector. But internally, the video card only
has one interface enabled. That prevents both connectors from being
used at the same time. While this is an obscure failing of a couple
cheap video cards, you should be warned that there are designs that
won't actually support two monitors when you want it. And it means
I have to type up this paragraph as a warning... Most other cards,
like the one pictured here, can drive any two of three connectors.

http://images10.newegg.com/NeweggImage/productimage/14-130-281-02.jpg

*******

If your Dell is a "slim" or "SFF", the video card can look like this.

http://images10.newegg.com/NeweggImage/productimage/14-129-063-01.jpg

And then you're kinda screwed... Those small computers force you
to do it the way you're trying to do it right now. Unless you like
the crappy signal from the round DIN connector.

If you're faced with this situation, you can try looking in the BIOS,
to see if there is a setting for the built-in video (enable/disable),
but I doubt it's there.

********

Now, on to more expensive solutions.

1) Replace the video card, with a multi-head one. They make low profile
multiplexed video cards. They use a "Y" external cable, to make the
two connections needed.

You can tell you're getting the right kind of low profile card, because
it comes with the "Y" cable. The monitor type may be fixed at two DVI-D
or two VGA. Generally, the cable doesn't support any arbitrary kind of
connections. There are limits.

http://images10.newegg.com/NeweggImage/productimage/14-129-106-07.jpg

The card is low profile and has a DMS-59 connector, which has enough
pins to carry the signals for two displays.

http://images10.newegg.com/NeweggImage/productimage/14-129-106-03.jpg

If you look hard enough, you can find "short" low profile cards, to fit
the tiniest of stinking slim/SFF packaging. Expect to pay a lot more
for this solution, than a regular video card.

2) Get a Matrox DualHead2Go or a TripleHead2Go.

http://www.matrox.com/graphics/media/pdf/products/en_gxm_datasheet_intl.pdf

The Matrox product takes a 2560x1024 image from the computer, and
makes two side by side 1280x1024 images from it, driving two monitors.
The "triple" version splits the image three ways. It's expensive and
an active conversion technology. I don't know if it's still for sale.
To the operating system, the operating system thinks it is driving
one monitor, but the image is split between two monitors electronically.

HTH,
Paul
 
P

pjp

Paul said:
Does the add-in video card have more than one connector ? Perhaps
two DVI-I connectors on it ?

If so, you can use a DVI-I to VGA passive adapter, and avoid the
headaches.
I'm using one of these right now, to drive a VGA monitor from a dual
DVI video card.

http://images17.newegg.com/is/image/newegg/82-203-020-S01?$S640W$

This is what my video card faceplate looks like. The cross shaped thingy,
with the four dots, is where the VGA analog signals are available. The
passive dongle adapter, picks up RGBHV from those connections, and
puts the VGA on the familiar 15 pin pattern.

http://images10.newegg.com/NeweggImage/productimage/14-130-281-02.jpg

More details on DVI-I are available here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Visual_Interface

*******

Now, to the ugly part. You'd provided no details, as to model number of
the Dell computer, and the make and model number of video card.

On AGP based motherboards, it was popular to disable the built-in video,
as soon as an add-on video card was detected.

On some PCI Express systems, they chose to do the same thing (although
they didn't need to). This disabling is at the BIOS level and may be
totally automated.

Modern PCI Express systems, can accept having both the built-in running
at the same time as the add-on video card. That allows support for
more connectors. With some caveats, as to how Windows may treat multiple
monitors and cards/GPUs.

So, yup, sometimes it works. But probably with a good deal of swearing
along the way :) That's why I'd recommend the dongle adapter, if your
add-in video card has multiple connectors available.

There are very few deceptive video card designs, but you should know they
exist. There were a couple, their price point is below $50, they have
both a VGA and a DVI connector. But internally, the video card only
has one interface enabled. That prevents both connectors from being
used at the same time. While this is an obscure failing of a couple
cheap video cards, you should be warned that there are designs that
won't actually support two monitors when you want it. And it means
I have to type up this paragraph as a warning... Most other cards,
like the one pictured here, can drive any two of three connectors.

http://images10.newegg.com/NeweggImage/productimage/14-130-281-02.jpg

*******

If your Dell is a "slim" or "SFF", the video card can look like this.

http://images10.newegg.com/NeweggImage/productimage/14-129-063-01.jpg

And then you're kinda screwed... Those small computers force you
to do it the way you're trying to do it right now. Unless you like
the crappy signal from the round DIN connector.

If you're faced with this situation, you can try looking in the BIOS,
to see if there is a setting for the built-in video (enable/disable),
but I doubt it's there.

********

Now, on to more expensive solutions.

1) Replace the video card, with a multi-head one. They make low profile
multiplexed video cards. They use a "Y" external cable, to make the
two connections needed.

You can tell you're getting the right kind of low profile card, because
it comes with the "Y" cable. The monitor type may be fixed at two DVI-D
or two VGA. Generally, the cable doesn't support any arbitrary kind of
connections. There are limits.

http://images10.newegg.com/NeweggImage/productimage/14-129-106-07.jpg

The card is low profile and has a DMS-59 connector, which has enough
pins to carry the signals for two displays.

http://images10.newegg.com/NeweggImage/productimage/14-129-106-03.jpg

If you look hard enough, you can find "short" low profile cards, to fit
the tiniest of stinking slim/SFF packaging. Expect to pay a lot more
for this solution, than a regular video card.

2) Get a Matrox DualHead2Go or a TripleHead2Go.


http://www.matrox.com/graphics/media/pdf/products/en_gxm_datasheet_intl.pdf

The Matrox product takes a 2560x1024 image from the computer, and
makes two side by side 1280x1024 images from it, driving two monitors.
The "triple" version splits the image three ways. It's expensive and
an active conversion technology. I don't know if it's still for sale.
To the operating system, the operating system thinks it is driving
one monitor, but the image is split between two monitors
electronically.

HTH,
Paul

The only thing I can add to that is if you do decide to go the route of
getting a new video card and it does state it supports dual monitor
(dual-head) OPEN THE BOX to insure the correct cable is included. On my
wife's relatively new pc we needed to add dual-head. The BIOS automatically
disabled the on-board video when the PCI-E card was put in so it had to be a
dual-head PCI-E video card (we used a cheap ATI card as games weren't an
issue). It took opening 3 what appeared to be identical boxes before one had
the proper dongle cable to attach two monitors. In my case, I need two VGA
style connections. In the three boxs were a) DVI & VGA, b) DVI & DVI and c)
VGA & VGA. The cables are a bitch to get after the fact btw. Just ask anyone
with a laptop can do dual-head but no dongle cable seems ever included and
of course can't order one etc. Same damn thing with the S-VGA out ports when
they don't give you the S-VGA to Composite adapter cable. Thankfully you can
easily make one of those.
 
T

Tim Meddick

As "SC Tom" says; it's most likely to be a case of "Enabling / Disabling"
in the BIOS setup program...

Most BIOSes will automatically disable the on-board video card if it has
detected a second video PCI device installed - you would then have to
manually re-enable it using the BIOS setup program.

==

Cheers, Tim Meddick, Peckham, London. :)
 
E

Ed from AZ

Sorry for the long delay in reply back. Thanks to all for chiming in
and trying to help this poor befuddled soul!

The computer is a Dell Dimension 4600c.
OS is XP SP3.
Video card is nVida GeForce MX440 with AGP8X.

In the BIOS, the only setting I could find for video was Primary Video
Controller.
It's set to AUTO; the only other option is AGP.

I looked though the nVida control panel, but I couldn't find any
settings for enable/disable on-board video??

Maybe I need to take this to a Dell or nVida forum??

Ed
 
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P

Paul

Ed said:
Sorry for the long delay in reply back. Thanks to all for chiming in
and trying to help this poor befuddled soul!

The computer is a Dell Dimension 4600c.
OS is XP SP3.
Video card is nVida GeForce MX440 with AGP8X.

In the BIOS, the only setting I could find for video was Primary Video
Controller.
It's set to AUTO; the only other option is AGP.

I looked though the nVida control panel, but I couldn't find any
settings for enable/disable on-board video??

Maybe I need to take this to a Dell or nVida forum??

Ed

Options:

1) It's an AGP motherboard. Upon installing an AGP card, the
built-in video may be disabled automatically. Connect your
monitor cable to the new card, so you can see the BIOS screen.

I don't think the Primary setting in there, actually enables
or disables video. It's for determining which of multiple
video device is considered to have the Primary monitor attached.
Perhaps the BIOS screen output will show up on the selected
screen, after the next reboot.

In certain scenarios, it's possible to get yourself into a
Catch-22 scenario. For example, sometimes the internal video
dies. A person installs an AGP card and all is grand. Then, one
day, they do a clear CMOS, or the CMOS battery dies and the setting
get reset. The default setting for the Primary monitor, is pointing
it to the built-in (broken) video. And then the owner has no way
to select the AGP output (flying blind). So sometimes these BIOS
controls, end up shooting the owner in the foot. As long as your
built-in still actually works, you can escape from most calamities
that may occur.

2) If the motherboard did not automatically disable the built-in,
after your next reboot, you could go to Device Manager, look
for multiple video card entries in Device Manager, then "disable"
the one you don't want in Device Manager. That will make it disappear
as far as the system is concerned.

Depending on whether your computer has room for a low profile or
full height card, there may be two usable video connectors on the
faceplate of the MX440.

There is one here with DVI and VGA on it.

http://techreport.com/r.x/gf4-8x/mx440-8x-card.jpg

Specs from that era ("PO_GeForce4_MX_92502.pdf")

http://www.nvidia.com/attach/3665?type=support&primitive=0

It's also possible to get low profile cards, with two low profile
faceplates. The VGA connector is on the end of a ribbon cable. The
ribbon cable provides the flexibility to position the VGA connector
on a faceplate blank, that sits next to the video card. So it is
possible for a low profile card, to drive two monitors. At least,
as long as you have a place to screw the second faceplate.

For example, this card ships with the full height faceplate installed.
By unscrewing the VGA from the faceplate, and using the two low profile
faceplates provided, the card can be converted to drive dual monitors
from two low profile faceplate slots.

http://images17.newegg.com/is/image/newegg/14-139-043-S05?$S640W$

HTH,
Paul
 
T

Tim Meddick

Try re-setting the Primary Video Controller setting to "AGP" and see if
this forces the onboard video card to stay activated.

Normally I would have expected there to be tree options for this setting ;

AUTO / AGP / PCI

...the "AUTO" setting, though, is going to be the one that allows the BIOS
to turn off the on-board video card if it detects a second installed
video-card upgrade.

If it doing this does not make both cards active at the same time, just
return the setting to it's old value on the next boot.

==

Cheers, Tim Meddick, Peckham, London. :)
 
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M

mm

Not sure where to start, so I'll throw it out to the experts here.

Someone gave me a Dell desktop. Runs great. I've got XP SP2 on it.

My Dell 4600 says in the owners manual, available online, that the
onboard video is disabled when you plug a video card in.
 

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