OEM XP

[kurttrail]

Am still waiting for someone to define "computer" as per MS in the
OEM EULA. One's opinion of "computer" is not acceptable. Once this
happens, all the opinions about it can stop.

I do know that a "buy with hardware" OEM XP install Cd will install
as many times as needed, but will work on only one PC at a time.
Activation is required. This incudes swapping motherboards of much
different assets, bios software, chipsets, and/or manufacture.
Reality check performed numerous times. Whether "illegal" or not has
not been proven to my satisfaction.

Everyone's opinion in this matter is respected by myself,
irregardless.

The problem is MS doesn't define when a computer is upgraded to a point
where it is another totally different computer. More then likely it is
for legal reasons, as MS has no business telling you what you can and
cannot do to your computer.

So MS keeps it vague and hides stuff on password protected sites, so
idiots like Carey can try to FUD people into buying a copy of Windows
when they really don't need another copy.

When it comes to the EULA, the End User might as well follow their own
opinion in regards to terms that MS isn't gonna sue you over. And that
is just about any term when it comes to private non-commercial use.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

 

[kurttrail]

This is simply a discussion on different opinions how people percieve
the EULA. I agree that EULA should come right out and say what can
and cant be done with the license..Tell that to the people that to
the MS legal department and the people who draft it...

I dont think the EULA causes piracy...People that want to make a buck
and people that dont have the buck to spend or dont want to spend the
buck are the cause of piracy..

Have you ever heard someone say "I dont like the EULA...So I am going
to steal your product."

Yes. And the software piracy rate was much higher in 1994, BEFORE most
people owned a PC than in 2001 when MS added copy-protection in its
software. Ever since, the piracy rate has remained basically the same,
except last year the BSA changed their methodology on how the calculate
the piracy rate.

Copy-protection is anti-consumer techology, and only really screws the
paying customer. So as more and more customers get screwed by it, more
and more are willing to use pirated software.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

 

[Steve N.]

And that's the difference between you and Carey. You are man enough to
admit to making a mistake, and Carey isn't.

Thank you Kurt. I make mistakes all the time and am greatful for it,
another way I get to learn.

I'm sure many think I should also apologize for calling hin a liar, a
ditz and a pathetic idiot, but those weren't meant as insult, rather my
opinion of him.

Besides that, there have actually been times when he's been right on the
money and I have said so.

Steve

 

[Steve N.]

Everyone is intitled to a mistake now and then..That discussion was a little
off topic anyway.

psg

Thanks psg. I don't really see it as OT, though, how one can or cannot
aquire an OEM version in a thread about OEM XP is on topic as much as
the rest of the discussion is.

Steve

 

[Steve N.]

Supposedly, and there are other glitches as well. I activated the same copy
of XP (using the same activation key) on two different machines, one a
Toshiba Tecra laptop and the other an Acer desktop, over the internet,
successfully, within 5 days of each other.

I've had simiar experiences. The whole WPA thing is a flawed and
unreliable piece of crapware.

Steve

 

[Steve N.]

The problem is MS doesn't define when a computer is upgraded to a point
where it is another totally different computer. More then likely it is
for legal reasons, as MS has no business telling you what you can and
cannot do to your computer.

So MS keeps it vague and hides stuff on password protected sites, so
idiots like Carey can try to FUD people into buying a copy of Windows
when they really don't need another copy.

When it comes to the EULA, the End User might as well follow their own
opinion in regards to terms that MS isn't gonna sue you over. And that
is just about any term when it comes to private non-commercial use.

I agree. And since when does a software maker have the right to define
what hardware component ultimately defines what a computer is anyway?
for someone shopping for or building their own computer _they_ are who
has the right to make such a definition, if indeed one could or even
should be made.

The problem is not really wheather the EULAs define it or not, but that
with WPA fiasco it is frequently the MS reps on the phone who define it,
when it's none of their business in the first place. What I do with MY
hardware and MY legitimately aquired software is nobody's business but
my own. Period. *I* define what is *my* computer, and if I choose to use
an OEM release of a MS product on *my* computer, whatever *my* computer
becomes at any given time is none of Microsoft's buisiness. And
according to the OEM SB License that *I* have access to read, *I* am the
OEM and *I* decide what constitues *my* computer. If they don't like it
then they shouldn't have produced OEM version of their products in the
first place.

Steve

 

[Steve N.]

With the new way OEM Windows product is sold the end user should end up with
a one pack which has the OEM license printed on the outside of the package.
This means they should be aware of the issues regarding OEM support,
motherboard replacement etc. There is much confusion as a lot of old stock
still exists and there is a lot of high quality counterfeits around as well.
I believe that with the new packaging at least some of the confusion will go
away. It will probably take a year or more before all the old product is
gone. It will probably take longer than that before all the OEM system
builders realise there has been a change No offence to the many system
builders here but I find a few small OEMs to be some of the most
curmudgeonly people in the industry. If you attend any MS OEM events and
spend time talking to people at random it is amazing how many of them are
close minded and resistant to change. Strangely enough it may be the
counterfeiters that lead the way. If they change their packaging then a lot
of the stuff bought on eBay or at flea markets will have the OEM license on
it. They won't have to worry about selling some hardware with the OEM
software to pretend they are legal.

Kerry

The OEM SBL one can access from MS:

http://oem.microsoft.com/downloads/Public/sblicense/English_SB_License.pdf

does NOT define the computer as any one component. I presume the same
OEM SBL appears on the package, since it appears as a templated document
with crosshairs defining the cutout borders, but I'm not about to spend
$100 online for a recent OEM release of an OS I already have to find
out. I'd love to see one in a store so I can read it for myself to be
sure, but I suspect that MS is discouraging such retail outlet sales in
the US in an effort to keep the issue clouded for their own possibly
clandestine purposes.

Steve

 

[Kerry Brown]

The OEM SBL one can access from MS:

http://oem.microsoft.com/downloads/Public/sblicense/English_SB_License.pdf

does NOT define the computer as any one component. I presume the same OEM
SBL appears on the package, since it appears as a templated document with
crosshairs defining the cutout borders, but I'm not about to spend $100
online for a recent OEM release of an OS I already have to find out. I'd
love to see one in a store so I can read it for myself to be sure, but I
suspect that MS is discouraging such retail outlet sales in the US in an
effort to keep the issue clouded for their own possibly clandestine
purposes.

It appears the oem site is down right now. The last time I checked the new
OEM agreement specified the motherboard as defining the computer. When the
site is back up I'll find it. You do need a password to access it.

Kerry

 

[Steve N.]

It appears the oem site is down right now. The last time I checked the new
OEM agreement specified the motherboard as defining the computer. When the
site is back up I'll find it. You do need a password to access it.

Kerry

It still doesn't mean squat to a consumer who buys an OEM copy of the OS
on or off-line, the averagage Joe/Jane who doesn't have access to _that_
particular password protected license agreement page niether knows about
it (except via heresay, which is factually meaningless) so it's not a
binding contract/agreement/whatever in any legal sense. If I can't _see_
it how the hell can I agree (or not) to it?

Steve

 

[GregRo]

I dont think the EULA causes piracy...People that want to make a buck and
people that dont have the buck to spend or dont want to spend the buck are
the cause of piracy..

That is not the problem here. No one can get the story straight.
Several computer shops told me different things about the oem and no
one knows about the new rule. They also say there were told this by
a Microsoft licensing rep

Another computer shop asked a Microsoft licensing rep if I could
transfer a full retail version of 98se to another computer. He said
no.

If Microsoft sold just one or two versions of windows operating
systems. This would be very little piracy.

$50 for retail/upgrade version
$100 for business retail/upgrade version
add $100 for technical support for both versions


Greg Ro

 

[Michael Stevens]

In

You're welcome


People who buy generic OEM releases do not have access to the
information that is purported to say that, before or after the time of
purchase, even by following links provided elsewhere in this thread
and the EULA does not define it at all, therefor it's a moot point.

The smart ones do, and is why people come to these newsgroups for
information. I pass on knowledge I either experience or find from sources
published on the internet, printed media, personal contact, etc.

According to what you're saying and what I read in the available OEM
Builders License, the end user who installs their copy of the generic
OEM purchase becomes the OEM in this case and it is _their_ decision
to make whether a motherboard upgrade or replacement constitues a new
computer or not along with everythng else concerning support of the
OS. Therefore, it is not the decision of some Microsoft rep to make
if/when it comes to phone activation.

That is the way I see it and I don't understand why you dissected the
sentence below from the paragraph, because if they are prompted for phone
activation, they will need to explain they are activating an OEM approved
upgrade. This is all the information required.
A branded OEM will be flagged differently and may or may not receive an
activation string.

This is rediculous. It's a contradiction as indicated above.

You shouldn't have dissected the paragraph, I was alluding the generic OEM
purchaser was the OEM and as the OEM would have the right to approve the
upgrade if prompted for activation.

 

[Kerry Brown]

It still doesn't mean squat to a consumer who buys an OEM copy of the OS
on or off-line, the averagage Joe/Jane who doesn't have access to _that_
particular password protected license agreement page niether knows about
it (except via heresay, which is factually meaningless) so it's not a
binding contract/agreement/whatever in any legal sense. If I can't _see_
it how the hell can I agree (or not) to it?

I guess you didn't read my other posts. The new version of XP OEM is sold
differently. It has the OEM agreement on the outside of the package. It is
the same as many other software packages. If you break the seal you've
agreed to the terms of the license. The fact that you haven't seen the new
package doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. I agree wholeheartedly that the
old way OEM XP was sold was confusing and not fair to the end user. The new
way will alleviate some of the confusion. It will take a while for the new
packages to work through the system.

The link you posted is now working. In Canada that was the old SBL. There is
a different one on current packages. There is also a different one on the
OEM web site. I have attended two different Microsoft events where they
talked at length about the new OEM license. I was told by a Canadian MS rep
that the US was changed as well. It looks like either she was wrong or that
document is out of date.

Kerry

 

[Kerry Brown]

I guess you didn't read my other posts. The new version of XP OEM is sold
differently. It has the OEM agreement on the outside of the package. It is
the same as many other software packages. If you break the seal you've
agreed to the terms of the license. The fact that you haven't seen the new
package doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. I agree wholeheartedly that
the old way OEM XP was sold was confusing and not fair to the end user.
The new way will alleviate some of the confusion. It will take a while for
the new packages to work through the system.

The link you posted is now working. In Canada that was the old SBL. There
is a different one on current packages. There is also a different one on
the OEM web site. I have attended two different Microsoft events where
they talked at length about the new OEM license. I was told by a Canadian
MS rep that the US was changed as well. It looks like either she was wrong
or that document is out of date.

Kerry

Here is the link about the motherboard defining the computer. It is password
protected so you need an OEM or partner account to access it.

http://oem.microsoft.com/script/ContentPage.aspx?pageid=552862

As I mentioned in an earlier post. If an end user is building their own
system they become the OEM. They are required as the OEM to provide their
own support. This is spelled out in the SBL on the outside of the OEM
package. This also gives them the right to decide if a motherboard is
defective, still on warranty, and needs replacement. If they have to
re-activate all they need do is state they are the OEM and they are
repairing the system. If the OEM package does not have the SBL on the
outside then it is old stock, counterfeit, or someone is selling individual
units from a multi pack which is contrary to the current SBL.

Kerry

 

[Alias]

Here is the link about the motherboard defining the computer. It is password
protected so you need an OEM or partner account to access it.

http://oem.microsoft.com/script/ContentPage.aspx?pageid=552862

Maybe you can copy and paste it here?

As I mentioned in an earlier post. If an end user is building their own
system they become the OEM. They are required as the OEM to provide their
own support. This is spelled out in the SBL on the outside of the OEM
package. This also gives them the right to decide if a motherboard is
defective, still on warranty, and needs replacement. If they have to
re-activate all they need do is state they are the OEM and they are
repairing the system. If the OEM package does not have the SBL on the
outside then it is old stock, counterfeit, or someone is selling individual
units from a multi pack which is contrary to the current SBL.

Kerry

This may be true in whatever country you live in but in Spain, all
retail stores sell XP Pro and Home OEM one at a time.

Alias

 

[Steve N.]

In


The smart ones do, and is why people come to these newsgroups for
information. I pass on knowledge I either experience or find from sources
published on the internet, printed media, personal contact, etc.




That is the way I see it and I don't understand why you dissected the
sentence below from the paragraph, because if they are prompted for phone
activation, they will need to explain they are activating an OEM approved
upgrade. This is all the information required.
A branded OEM will be flagged differently and may or may not receive an
activation string.




You shouldn't have dissected the paragraph, I was alluding the generic OEM
purchaser was the OEM and as the OEM would have the right to approve the
upgrade if prompted for activation.

I disected it in error and got lazy. Sorry. Ok, I see your point. Thanks
for clarifying Michael.

Steve

 

[Kerry Brown]

Maybe you can copy and paste it here?

As it is a password protected site I assume it is not available for public
posting. You would have to talk to Microsoft about this.

This may be true in whatever country you live in but in Spain, all retail
stores sell XP Pro and Home OEM one at a time.

Alias

I do not have access to the Spanish OEM site or licensing information. In
North America there are many retail outlets still selling individual OEM
packs as well. I am assuming it is old stock or they are unaware of the new
rules. Very few people read software licenses and EULA's. I am sure most
OEM's don't read the license before opening an OEM pack. The only way I
became aware of the new SBL was by attending an OEM licensing seminar.
Almost everyone in the audience was surprised about the new rules. I am sure
several years from now there will still be system builders selling OEM XP
with a mouse thinking they are complying with the terms of the license. If
or when the OEM rules will change in Spain you will have to find out from a
Spanish OEM.

Kerry

 

[chrispsg]

Yeah I guess your right...

psg

Thanks psg. I don't really see it as OT, though, how one can or cannot
aquire an OEM version in a thread about OEM XP is on topic as much as the
rest of the discussion is.

Steve

 

[chrispsg]

I agree. And since when does a software maker have the right to define
what hardware component ultimately defines what a computer is anyway? for
someone shopping for or building their own computer _they_ are who has the
right to make such a definition, if indeed one could or even should be
made.

I think this portion comes down to profit. Customer takes PC to System
Builder for component upgrade. If the upgrade meets the Microsoft criteria
of new computer. System Builder aquires new OEM License from MS...System
Builder sells new license because of Microsoft's defintion of a new
computer. $$$$

Think of it this way. If everyone upgraded their computer forever w/o
buying a new one...the only static part being the case.. and MS defined the
case as a new computer...They would not make any money. How will a case ever
be defective? Unless you drop a refrigerator on it. The oem license would be
pretty much like a per seat license. Tied to a person not specific
equipment.

So.. They define something that people will have to either change or replace
probably once in the lifetime of the computer. If they never have to replace
the mobo.. so MS doesnt lose any money because the person will just buy
another PC.. Probably with an OEM version of Windows.....

Anyone agree/disagree????

psg

 

[Alias]

As it is a password protected site I assume it is not available for public
posting. You would have to talk to Microsoft about this.




I do not have access to the Spanish OEM site or licensing information. In
North America there are many retail outlets still selling individual OEM
packs as well. I am assuming it is old stock or they are unaware of the new
rules. Very few people read software licenses and EULA's. I am sure most
OEM's don't read the license before opening an OEM pack. The only way I
became aware of the new SBL was by attending an OEM licensing seminar.
Almost everyone in the audience was surprised about the new rules. I am sure
several years from now there will still be system builders selling OEM XP
with a mouse thinking they are complying with the terms of the license. If
or when the OEM rules will change in Spain you will have to find out from a
Spanish OEM.

Kerry

They've never been sold with hardware here and most retail stores carry
nothing else, no upgrades, no retail.

Alias

 

[Ghostrider]

chrispsg wrote:

I think this portion comes down to profit. Customer takes PC to System
Builder for component upgrade. If the upgrade meets the Microsoft criteria
of new computer. System Builder aquires new OEM License from MS...System
Builder sells new license because of Microsoft's defintion of a new
computer. $$$$

Right. System builder is "building" new computer per customer's specs.

Think of it this way. If everyone upgraded their computer forever w/o
buying a new one...the only static part being the case.. and MS defined the
case as a new computer...They would not make any money. How will a case ever
be defective? Unless you drop a refrigerator on it. The oem license would be
pretty much like a per seat license. Tied to a person not specific
equipment.

Common sense never made the computer case to be "the computer".

So.. They define something that people will have to either change or replace
probably once in the lifetime of the computer. If they never have to replace
the mobo.. so MS doesnt lose any money because the person will just buy
another PC.. Probably with an OEM version of Windows.....

This is life and the beat goes on.

Anyone agree/disagree????

It has been this way for the last 20 years that I have been in
business as an OEM/VAR/Lessor/Owner-Operator-Admin/End User.