Now - Bill Sanderson

[Stu]

Bring me back down to earth .. I have to say .. first impressions are that I
very much like IE8 .. For me, Microsoft has learnt a lot of lessons from the
IE7 experience ???

Stu

 

[Robinb]

is it similar to firefox or different?
robin

 

[Randy Knobloch]

Bring me back down to earth .. I have to say .. first impressions are that I
very much like IE8 .. For me, Microsoft has learnt a lot of lessons from the
IE7 experience ???

'Off the record' browsing is go >
http://msmvps.com/blogs/siljaline/archive/2008/08/27/microsoft-dishes-dirt-on-ie8-pr0n-mode.aspx

 

[Stu]

Firefox?? Whats that? <smile> I`m a Microsoft guy! IE has always been for me
since ..... IE3 ?? Windows 98 I think. At that time no one seemed to know
what it was for until Netscape showed us the way... that would be early to
mid 90`s?? I do remember Windows 98 SE was a big talking point then. My ISP
`emirates.net.ae` even gave me a setup disk which came bundled with Netscape
and Eudora Lite as the email client. I still have it here with me now....
Didn`t take me long to realise the potential of MS Office and what I now
realise is - Outlook .. hotmail configuration and all. In fact I`m proud to
announce I still have a hotmail account which can be configured to run with
Outlook... MS don`t do that now ... wish they would cos I have another one
which I would dearly love to incorporate. Point is I stuck with MS thru thick
and thin. In those days Hotmail had a dreadful reputation - but my account is
still with them at a time many evaporated into the ether. The same applies to
their browser. I happen to believe its now the best and have always placed my
trust with the guys at Microsoft. Sounds corny I know, but is nevertheless
true.

Stu

I`ve given you the download link .. try it for yourself with the
reservations I`ve already pointed out.

Stu

 

[Bill Sanderson]

There's a newsgroup for the IE8 beta, and I'm inclined to say we should
disuss it there, but I am running it, and I do like it, but I'm having some
issues as well. I'm going to keep the issues in the IE8 group, but I will
say that I ran beta1 and am now running beta2, and aside from some font size
issues, I love it. And it is fast!

 

[Stu]

Nice to hear and I couldn`t agree more. After all, this is supposed to be a
WD newsgroup but there are those who seem to disagree with me. At the risk of
sounding lazy, do you have a link I could go to because I would like to place
my penneth also??

Stu

 

[Stu]

OK. I think I`ve found the link ...

http://www.microsoft.com/communitie...EC5-645C-4477-A380-0F1CF6C102F9&lang=en&cr=us

Stu

 

[Stu]

I`ve just been over there and am appalled by the number of `one liners` ..
that is people posting with no response. I understand it will take some time
and you will tell me that in your usual diplomatic way. How to react to a new
software update - particularly a major one such as IE8. I find the feed back
really abissmal . Loads of questions but no meaningful answers . It only
serves to endorse my feeling of how lucky we are to have a great NG like this
with dedicated professionals like yourself and Engel to see us thru our probs
with WD. That said, this observation also goes out to the many helpers who
provide so much valuable input to this NG to the point I personally feel I
know them all !!

Stu

 

[Bill Sanderson]

Bear in mind that beta1 was primarily oriented towards developers. So the
primary purpose was to get issues posted for Microsoft to read and see
whether folks were hitting stuff unexpected. It's a peer group--but I do
see some Microsoft posts in it--more than you'll see here.

The volume has gone through the roof since the release of beta2, which is
both public and which end-users are encouraged to try out. I haven't looked
much at the group since release--I've been busy trying to recover a Lenovo
x61 thinkpad which blue-screened on startup after installation of some
Lenovo updates--I wasted most of a day on that--it has no removable drive,
and I didn't have a usb-connected CD drive. If I had such a drive, I could
have restored from the previous nights backup in about an hour, but instead
I tried to tough it out. In the end, I was able to recover the system, but
I had to restore to a month old backup and then re-copy the users current
files back.

I have to give a plug for Lenovo tech support though. I talked to exactly
one person--gave the machine serial number, he checked warrantee details,
and talked me through the possible fixes. I wish it had been simpler (the
fix) but the support was quick and very accessable once I bit the bullet and
made the call.

 

[robinb]

I only use Eudora Pro for email, have been for 15yrs. Started with the lite
them purchased the product. Sun I believe was suppose to take it over and
create an open source Eudora but i never saw it happen.

robin

 

[Stu]

....Thru the developers. Right? Point taken Bill. Education is a wonderful
thing. Many thanks - I`m getting there. I think!

Stu

 

[Bill Sanderson]

The beta groups are primarily peer support groups--you'll see MVP's and
other peer folks answering questions as best they can.

Microsoft staff involved in the development of IE8 are reading the group,
however, and occasionally they will post to clarify an issue if they believe
it highlights a bug or something that can be fixed in the product.

Beta1 was oriented towards the large community of web developers--technical
folks who know one end of the browser from the other (which sure doesn't
describe me!) and will be interested in how IE8 handles their code--i.e. the
web sites and pages they have developed and are developing.

Beta2 is sufficiently robust and close to a final product that it is being
publicized for end-users. At this point, I suspect we'll see a large
increase in post volume, and perhaps a decrease in Microsoft presence---they
just can't respond to the volume of messages--even those that might seem to
call for an "insider" response.

So--building a community of peers who know just a bit more than the guy
asking the question and are willing to spend some time reading and
responding is important to the health of the community--i.e. the perception
of whether the group is a good place to take your question--whether you get
an answer, and reasonably quickly, and without being flamed for your
inexperience or lack of proper technical background.

As with most "general" groups, I would expect that group to be pretty wild
and wooly for a while, at least--everybody will be posting their favorite
feature in browser x,y, and z, and wondering why Microsoft could have been
so stupid as to have not implemented it, etc.

 

[Stu]

Then there are the volume of issues etc with beta 2 on top of all else? ....
system overload?

I sometimes wonder if the secretive policy MS has with new software
releases, may , sometimes, have a counter productive effect from the end
user point of view. That is, as one who is on the outside looking in, I see a
bunch of dedicated professionals (sometimes) struggling to address issues
thru betas 1 and 2 in any MS product in a relatively short period before RC
is then Release! To address the more searching issues presented thru the
newsgroups. You guys barely seem to have the time to absorb one release
before the other has appeared, as well as, `experience` the product to the
point you can always give advice with some confidence without constantly
referencing MSDN? Such is the nature of the beast? Might I add, this is said
with greatest of respect. I wonder if there are those in the development and
marketing who realise the end user is considerabley more computer literate
than say - ten years ago and is likely to demand more in a relatively short
period? Do they ever talk to one another?

Stu

I used to work in a training environement a few years back and one of the
key things when introducing a new procedue was - throughly familiarise those
who will be expected to educate/train first then - train!! This always
envolved going on a course designed for the purpose. The impact this had on
me was a healthy respect for the trainer`s ability to deliver the product
with knowledge and conviction! What has training to do with any MS beta
program you may ask yourself? For me there is a strikingly similar parellel.

Then again, maybe the reason I`m writing this is because i`m on the outside
- looking in.

 

[Stu]

OK Bill. In spite of my ramblings. Many thanks for explaining how things
`really work `rather than my speculative theories ... very informative.

Stu

 

[Bill Sanderson]

I think everybody realizes that the days of blockbuster new versions
appearing x years after the previous version are waning. Windows releases
in my experience, with the possible exception of Windows 2000 are
incremental--new stuff built on the previous version. Windows95 seemed
revolutionary at the time, but much of the networking had already been there
in Windows for Workgroups 3.21 (??)

Windows 2000 married the Windows GUI to the NT OS base--and that seemed
revolutionary to me because here was my mother-in-law at 80 using Windows NT
which I'd always thought of as a server OS.

(and she is still using it--on a cable broadband connection to the Internet
with no firewall, and she's never been infected.)

And if you want secrecy--look at Apple. I don't think Microsoft likes
secrecy much--there's always the risk of somebody screwing up--if you want a
current example Google on Microsoft Bluetrack. But, between the anti-trust
folks and the Securitys Exchange Commission, they do have to be pretty
careful to release forward-looking information in an even-handed way--and
anything about a major product release probably needs careful handling for
that reason.

I do agree with what you are saying about the beta cycle--about the best I
can say is that the feedback that isn't able to be applied within the
current product cycle does get looked at again for future cycles. Some of
it just isn't the direction Microsoft feels they need to go in (eliminate
DRM, for example)--but some of it does get implemented over time.