news reader

[N. Miller]

Ken Blake, MVP wrote:

I like simplicity and convenience? And generally, lean and mean, apps.

A Swiss Army Knife is "lean and mean". It does many little things. But it
won't skin a buck, or remove lug nuts from the wheels.

And I have NO interest whatsoever in a heavier applet, like "MS Outlook".

(or Office 2007, for that matter - double shudder!)

To skin a buck, use a Bowie knife. To loosen the lug nuts of your car, use a
lug wrench.

For mail, I use a purpose-built application: Pegasus Mail.

For news, I use a purpose-built application: 40tude Dialog.

--
Norman
~Shine, bright morning light,
~now in the air the spring is coming.
~Sweet, blowing wind,
~singing down the hills and valleys.

 

[~BD~]

YW Bear.

As for BD-- to each his own; but I'm afraid it's your loss.

Keep an open mind, and remember what a wise one said about judging
others. I
agree that there are those that I don't particularly care for, but I
prefer
to keep that to myself, lest I poison someone else's opinion before
they
have had a chance to get to know another poster themselves.

--
HTH,

Curt

http://dundats.mvps.org/
http://www.aumha.org/
http://dundats.mvps.org/AutoIt/default.aspx

I hear what you say, Curt but you seem to assume that I do not 'know' PA
Bear.

I've found the very first instance of when he placed a <plonk> in
response to one of my concerns. Please note the date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005

You will also note that I refer to a missing 'a' - at the time I had
almost no experience of newsgroups or the language used in Usenet groups
and had interpreted it to mean "plonka" or "plonker" an English term
with wich I was familiar!
http://www.archivum.info/microsoft.public.windowsupdate/2005-10/msg01011.html

I often wonder if it is always the same persona that posts under the
name of PA Bear - but whenever I check an IP address it seems
consistently confusing (to me!) 24.152.248.232 relates to Pennsylvania
yet 71.173.71.14 resolves to Dodge City, Kansas - a long way apart I
believe. Instead of simply explaining why this may be so, I am
stone-walled. That, in turn, makes me suspicious.

You said in a response to Bill Castner "My machine did not care for SP3,
and I *did* un-install it, but have kept up with all the other patches."
Have you got SP3 satisfactorily installed now? IMO you should have!
<smile>

We seemed to relate well whilst I was active at Aumha. I know you read
many of my posts. To this day I still do not know why I was expelled
(banned from posting) but perceive it may have been because I'd been
furished with a Corporate edition of Symantec Antivirus (which includes
anti-everything! - I'll list below!). Oh yes - I was watching everything
too and often asking 'difficult' questions!

I'm confident that you are one of the good guys, Curt. Perhaps *you*
could enquire as to the reason for my expulsion and let me and others
here know.

Dave

PS This is what is checked by the Corporate version of Symantec:

Symantec AntiVirus can detect, quarantine, delete, and remove or repair
the side effects of security risks in the following categories:

a.. Spyware: Stand-alone programs that can secretly monitor system
activity and detect information like passwords and other confidential
information and relay the information back to another computer.
Spyware can be unknowingly downloaded from Web sites (typically in
shareware or freeware), email messages, and instant messenger software.
You may unknowingly download spyware by accepting an End User License
Agreement from a software program.

a.. Adware: Stand-alone or appended programs that can secretly gather
personal information through the Internet and relay it back to another
computer. Adware may track browsing habits for advertising purposes.
Adware can also deliver advertising content.
Adware can be unknowingly downloaded from Web sites (typically in
shareware or freeware), email messages, and instant messenger software.
You may unknowingly download adware by accepting an End User License
Agreement from a software program.

a.. Dialers: Programs that use a computer, without your permission or
knowledge, to dial out through the Internet to a 900 number or FTP site,
typically to accrue charges.
b.. Hack tools: Programs that are used by a hacker to gain
unauthorized access to your computer. For example, one hack tool is a
keystroke logger, which tracks and records individual keystrokes and can
send this information back to the hacker. The hacker can then perform
port scans or vulnerability scans. Hack tools may also be used to create
tools for virus creation.
c.. Joke programs: Programs that can alter or interrupt the operation
of a computer in a way that is intended to be humorous or frightening.
For example, a program can be downloaded from Web sites (typically in
shareware or freeware), email messages, or instant messenger software.
It can then move the trash can away from the mouse when you attempt to
delete or cause the mouse to click in reverse.
d.. Other: Security risks that do not conform to any other security
risk category, but that may present a security risk to your computer and
its data.
e.. Remote access: Programs that allow access over the Internet from
another computer to gain information or to attack or alter your
computer. For example, you may install a program, or it may be installed
as part of some other process without your knowledge. The program can be
used for malicious purposes with or without modification of the original
remote access program.
f.. Trackware: Stand-alone or appended applications that trace a
user's path on the Internet and send information to a target system. For
example, the application can be downloaded from Web sites, email
messages, or instant messenger software. It can then obtain confidential
information regarding user behavior.

 

[BillW50]

In Ken Blake, MVP typed on Sat, 03 Jan 2009 08:04:11 -0700:

Regarding that last sentence, it's a point of view that many people
have, but one that I've never understood. Personally I see no value in
having both functions in a single program, and I'd appreciate hearing
from you as to why you feel that way...

I too like newsreader and email rolled into one application. As they both
need servers, they both need readers, they both need editors, they both for
some of us need spell checkers, they both need a header list, they both need
to be sortable, they both use threads, etc. So since you need the very same
between them, why use something differently for both? So you only have one
program to master and not more.

--
Bill
2 Gateway MX6124 - Windows XP SP2
3 Asus EEE PC 701G4 ~ 2GB RAM ~ 16GB-SDHC
2 Asus EEE PC 702G8 ~ 1GB RAM ~ 16GB-SDHC
Windows XP SP2 ~ Xandros Linux - Puppy - Ubuntu

 

[BillW50]

In PA Bear [MS MVP] typed on Sat, 3 Jan 2009 11:40:51 -0500:

[So good, he posts it twice!]

In Bill in Co. typed on Fri, 2 Jan 2009 22:28:47 -0700:

None of my OE has ever worked like that. Although I wish it would
sometimes. How all of mine works is they match what is on the server and
delete the ones the server has already deleted. And some servers only
keeps things for a few days while some others can keep them for a year or
more.

Sorry the computer paused for a brief second (which is very rare here) and
it kicked it out twice. Must have been one of those fubars.

--
Bill
2 Gateway MX6124 - Windows XP SP2
3 Asus EEE PC 701G4 ~ 2GB RAM ~ 16GB-SDHC
2 Asus EEE PC 702G8 ~ 1GB RAM ~ 16GB-SDHC
Windows XP SP2 ~ Xandros Linux - Puppy - Ubuntu

 

[Ken Blake, MVP]

I like simplicity and convenience?

OK, thanks, but my point was that having the two functions in a single
program doesn't offer any "simplicity and convenience" as far as *I*
am concerned. Since I use both my newsreader and E-mail client almost
all day long, I want to keep both open all the time, and having the
two functions in a single program would be *less* convenient.

And generally, lean and mean, apps.

OK, but I think the words "lean and mean" don't really mean anything
in general. We all have different needs and want different things out
of a program, so one that's "lean and mean" to me may not be to you,
and vice versa.

And I have NO interest whatsoever in a heavier applet, like "MS Outlook".

Once again, we all have different needs and want different things out
of a program, and I wasn't at all trying to convince you to use
Outlook. I mentioned it only to point out what *I* used.

(or Office 2007, for that matter - double shudder!)

And again, to point out what I use, I use very little of Office 2007:
Outlook regularly, Excel rarely, and PowerPoint very occasionally. I
almost never use Word (in any version).

 

[BillW50]

In Ken Blake, MVP typed on Sun, 04 Jan 2009 08:13:52 -0700:

OK, thanks, but my point was that having the two functions in a single
program doesn't offer any "simplicity and convenience" as far as *I*
am concerned. Since I use both my newsreader and E-mail client almost
all day long, I want to keep both open all the time, and having the
two functions in a single program would be *less* convenient.

So what you are saying Ken, you like to click more to do less? I like doing
it the other way. Do more and click less. And I can see in a glance whether
I have new email or new messages to read even without clicking anything.

--
Bill
2 Gateway MX6124 - Windows XP SP2
3 Asus EEE PC 701G4 ~ 2GB RAM ~ 16GB-SDHC
2 Asus EEE PC 702G8 ~ 1GB RAM ~ 16GB-SDHC
Windows XP SP2 ~ Xandros Linux - Puppy - Ubuntu

 

[BillW50]

In Ken Blake, MVP typed on Sun, 04 Jan 2009 08:13:52 -0700:

And again, to point out what I use, I use very little of Office 2007:
Outlook regularly, Excel rarely, and PowerPoint very occasionally. I
almost never use Word (in any version).

That is weird to hear for me. As I have used Office 2000 for many years
(used Office 97 before that). And Word is what I use the most. Hardly use
the rest of it (although I used to use Outlook a lot). And I use Word mainly
as a plain text editor. With the macros, I strip hard returns and remove
extra spaces, etc. I have tried many text editors and they just don't have
to power that I need. WordStar for DOS v5 and v7 did work well until I
managed to do the same under Word.

P.S. I hear tell that Bill Gates used WordStar to do his programming.

--
Bill
2 Gateway MX6124 - Windows XP SP2
3 Asus EEE PC 701G4 ~ 2GB RAM ~ 16GB-SDHC
2 Asus EEE PC 702G8 ~ 1GB RAM ~ 16GB-SDHC
Windows XP SP2 ~ Xandros Linux - Puppy - Ubuntu

 

[Ken Blake, MVP]

In Ken Blake, MVP typed on Sun, 04 Jan 2009 08:13:52 -0700:

So what you are saying Ken, you like to click more to do less?

Of course not, and you know that. If you want to reply to me as a
personal attack, I'm not at all interested in discussing the matter
with you.

 

[Ken Blake, MVP]

If you use Outlook 2007, you're using Word 2007 every time. It's
Outlook's editor for composing/replying.

 

[Ken Blake, MVP]

If you use Outlook 2007, you're using Word 2007 every time. It's
Outlook's editor for composing/replying.

Not correct. Although that's an option, it's not one that I use.

 

[Ken Blake, MVP]

In Ken Blake, MVP typed on Sun, 04 Jan 2009 08:13:52 -0700:

That is weird to hear for me. As I have used Office 2000 for many years
(used Office 97 before that). And Word is what I use the most.

Your use is not at all uncommon. Word is the most popular word
processor these days, by far. Nevertheless, my personal preference is
WordPerfect, and has been for many years.

Hardly use
the rest of it (although I used to use Outlook a lot). And I use Word mainly
as a plain text editor. With the macros, I strip hard returns and remove
extra spaces, etc. I have tried many text editors and they just don't have
to power that I need. WordStar for DOS v5 and v7 did work well until I
managed to do the same under Word.

WordStar was the first word processor that I ever used, back in 1987.
But that was long enough ago that I remember nothing of it.

P.S. I hear tell that Bill Gates used WordStar to do his programming.

I wouldn't be surprised. Back when he started programming, there were
no Microsoft products for him to use.

 

[Peter Foldes]

Richie

Explain me then. Let us say I have Outlook 2007 installed and no other Office suites
not even Word then what would be my HTML Editor or and what would be used for Text
for composing\replying ????

 

[Galen Somerville]

In Ken Blake, MVP typed on Sun, 04 Jan 2009 08:13:52 -0700:

That is weird to hear for me. As I have used Office 2000 for many years (used Office 97
before that). And Word is what I use the most. Hardly use the rest of it (although I
used to use Outlook a lot). And I use Word mainly as a plain text editor. With the
macros, I strip hard returns and remove extra spaces, etc. I have tried many text
editors and they just don't have to power that I need. WordStar for DOS v5 and v7 did
work well until I managed to do the same under Word.

P.S. I hear tell that Bill Gates used WordStar to do his programming.

--
Bill
2 Gateway MX6124 - Windows XP SP2
3 Asus EEE PC 701G4 ~ 2GB RAM ~ 16GB-SDHC
2 Asus EEE PC 702G8 ~ 1GB RAM ~ 16GB-SDHC
Windows XP SP2 ~ Xandros Linux - Puppy - Ubuntu

I still use WordStar 7 on my Win98 machine. And Word 2000 Premium on all other machines.

Galen

 

[PA Bear [MS MVP]]

Yeah, I know, and I do something similar. But it just seems like
something
that should already be in there, as I am SURE most people aren't even
aware
of this, and never do it. As I said, it should have been designed in,
after all these iterations of OE over all the years).

You're preaching to the choir here, Bill. MVPs had a mile-long &
many-years-old list of requested features and bugs that needed fixing when
OE development ceased (without notice, I'll add). Ditto for Windows Mail in
Vista, development of which also ceased in June 2006...yes, while Vista was
still in beta.

 

[BillW50]

In Ken Blake, MVP typed on Sun, 04 Jan 2009 11:18:06 -0700:

Of course not, and you know that. If you want to reply to me as a
personal attack, I'm not at all interested in discussing the matter
with you.

Huh? Oh no, it isn't a personal attack. It is just common sense. Using more
than one application means you have to do more clicking to do the very same
things as using one application, no?

For example I used to dislike editors in email and newsgroup applications.
Old DOS based ones allowed you to select your own editor. But GUI ones
didn't (well they are really rare anyway). So I used to copy and paste
between them. My fingers got really good at switching between the two so I
didn't lose a lot of time. But it was still more work.

--
Bill
2 Gateway MX6124 - Windows XP SP2
3 Asus EEE PC 701G4 ~ 2GB RAM ~ 16GB-SDHC
2 Asus EEE PC 702G8 ~ 1GB RAM ~ 16GB-SDHC
Windows XP SP2 ~ Xandros Linux - Puppy - Ubuntu

 

[BillW50]

In Galen Somerville typed on Sun, 4 Jan 2009 10:32:29 -0800:

I still use WordStar 7 on my Win98 machine. And Word 2000 Premium on
all other machines.

Hi Galen! I too still have WordStar. I guess maybe I should start using it
once again. The only reason I quit was it doesn't like pasting in those
8-bit character sets (although 7-bit ASCII was fine).

--
Bill
2 Gateway MX6124 - Windows XP SP2
3 Asus EEE PC 701G4 ~ 2GB RAM ~ 16GB-SDHC
2 Asus EEE PC 702G8 ~ 1GB RAM ~ 16GB-SDHC
Windows XP SP2 ~ Xandros Linux - Puppy - Ubuntu

 

[N. Miller]

I often wonder if it is always the same persona that posts under the
name of PA Bear - but whenever I check an IP address it seems
consistently confusing (to me!) 24.152.248.232 relates to Pennsylvania
yet 71.173.71.14 resolves to Dodge City, Kansas - a long way apart I
believe. Instead of simply explaining why this may be so, I am
stone-walled. That, in turn, makes me suspicious.

[24.152.248.232] resolves to:

| 01/04/09 11:07:44 dns 24.152.248.232
| nslookup 24.152.248.232
| Canonical name: 24.152.248.232.res-cmts.tvh.ptd.net
| Addresses:
| 24.152.248.232

In that host name, 'cmts' is likely a reference to the "Cable Modem
Termination System", indicating that 'ptd.net' is a cable service. For that
matter, 'ptd.net' WHOIS shows this:

| 01/04/09 11:08:45 whois (e-mail address removed)
|
| whois -h whois.geektools.com ptd.net ...
| GeekTools Whois Proxy v5.0.4 Ready.
| Checking access for 68.127.104.88... ok.
|
| Checking server [whois.crsnic.net]
|
| Checking server [whois.tucows.com]
| Results:
| Registrant:
| PenTeleData Inc
| 471 Delaware Ave
| Palmerton, Pa 18071
| US

A trace route to that IP address, from San José, California is consistent
with an East Coast (USA) location. Now [71.173.71.14] resolves to:

| 01/04/09 11:08:01 dns 71.173.71.14
| nslookup 71.173.71.14
| Canonical name: pool-71-173-71-14.ptldme.east.verizon.net
| Addresses:
| 71.173.71.14

Trace route, from San José, California is still consistent with an East
Coast (USA) location. Different ISP, though: Verizon, as contrasted with
PenTelData, Inc. The Verizon IP address could be DSL, could be FiOS. Could
be serving the exact same community as the PenTelData IP address.

This much I can tell you about [71.173.71.14]: No way is it in Dodge City,
Kansas! The host name appears to use a common Bell* practice of city code.
I'd take 'ptldme' to likely be Portland, Maine.

NOTE* "Bell" is a brand name not used much by U.S. telephone companies, any
more. When the Federal Government broke up AT&T in 1984, it forbade the use
of the "Bell" brand by AT&T, reserving its use to the ILEC businesses spun
off from AT&T. Some (Bell Atlantic, Bellsouth, and Southwestern Bell
Telephone) kept the brand in the corporate names. Others (Ameritech, The
Pacific Telesis Group) kept the brand only in the local service companies
(Wisconsin Bell, Indiana Bell, Illinois Bell, etc., for Ameritech, and
Nevada Bell and Pacific Bell for The Pacific Telesis group). Yet others
(NYNEX, USWest) dropped the "Bell" brand altogether. But they all,
apparently, carried the practice of city/state naming in the pattern of
'ctcdst', where 'ctcd' is a four-letter city code, and 'st' is the U.S.
Postal two-letter state code. Verizon, formed from the merger of Bell
Atlantic, NYNEX, and General Telephone and Electronics, has some of that old
"Bell" culture, as does AT&T formed from the merger of Ameritech, The
Pacific Telesis Group, and some none Bell companies, when Southwestern Bell
Teleophone (as, "SBC") bought them. SBC also bought AT&T, renaming
themselves from, "SBC", to "AT&T" in the process. Then they bought
Bellsouth. So the "Bell Force" is strong with this new "Deathstar" (a
reference to the AT&T logo; designed for the stripped down AT&T of 1984, and
redesigned for the "new" AT&T after it fell to SBC.

BTW, even knowing the city and state codes for an AT&T (or Verizon) host
name, you won't, necessarily, have the city of residence of the subscriber.
My own ISP hostname incorporates 'pltnca' in the name: "Pleasanton,
California", which is a good 26 miles from San José, California.

Don't set too much stock by resolved hostnames for U.S. IP addresses.
Different corporate cultures result in different naming conventions; and,
when they do use a geographic locator in the name, more often it refers to
the location of some switching center, or transit hub, than the end user's
location.

--
Norman
~Shine, bright morning light,
~now in the air the spring is coming.
~Sweet, blowing wind,
~singing down the hills and valleys.

 

[N. Miller]

In Ken Blake, MVP typed on Sun, 04 Jan 2009 08:13:52 -0700:

So what you are saying Ken, you like to click more to do less? I like doing
it the other way. Do more and click less.

Silly boy. Working with a separate news and email client does not mean "more
clicks". Whether you use an "all-in-one" application, or separate
applications, going from news to mail will take the same effort in clicks
expnded.

And I can see in a glance whether I have new email or new messages to
read even without clicking anything.

Ditto for two applications.

--
Norman
~Shine, bright morning light,
~now in the air the spring is coming.
~Sweet, blowing wind,
~singing down the hills and valleys.

 

[BillW50]

In N. Miller typed on Sun, 4 Jan 2009 11:34:56 -0800:
[...]

Trace route, from San José, California is still consistent with an
East Coast (USA) location. Different ISP, though: Verizon, as
contrasted with PenTelData, Inc. The Verizon IP address could be DSL,
could be FiOS. Could be serving the exact same community as the
PenTelData IP address.

This much I can tell you about [71.173.71.14]: No way is it in Dodge
City, Kansas! The host name appears to use a common Bell* practice of
city code. I'd take 'ptldme' to likely be Portland, Maine.

NOTE* "Bell" is a brand name not used much by U.S. telephone
companies, any more. When the Federal Government broke up AT&T in
1984, it forbade the use of the "Bell" brand by AT&T, reserving its
use to the ILEC businesses spun off from AT&T. Some (Bell Atlantic,
Bellsouth, and Southwestern Bell Telephone) kept the brand in the
corporate names. Others (Ameritech, The Pacific Telesis Group) kept
the brand only in the local service companies (Wisconsin Bell,
Indiana Bell, Illinois Bell, etc., for Ameritech, and Nevada Bell and
Pacific Bell for The Pacific Telesis group). Yet others (NYNEX,
USWest) dropped the "Bell" brand altogether. But they all,
apparently, carried the practice of city/state naming in the pattern
of 'ctcdst', where 'ctcd' is a four-letter city code, and 'st' is the
U.S. Postal two-letter state code. Verizon, formed from the merger of
Bell Atlantic, NYNEX, and General Telephone and Electronics, has some
of that old "Bell" culture, as does AT&T formed from the merger of
Ameritech, The Pacific Telesis Group, and some none Bell companies,
when Southwestern Bell Teleophone (as, "SBC") bought them. SBC also
bought AT&T, renaming themselves from, "SBC", to "AT&T" in the
process. Then they bought Bellsouth. So the "Bell Force" is strong
with this new "Deathstar" (a reference to the AT&T logo; designed for
the stripped down AT&T of 1984, and redesigned for the "new" AT&T
after it fell to SBC.

BTW, even knowing the city and state codes for an AT&T (or Verizon)
host name, you won't, necessarily, have the city of residence of the
subscriber. My own ISP hostname incorporates 'pltnca' in the name:
"Pleasanton, California", which is a good 26 miles from San José,
California.

Don't set too much stock by resolved hostnames for U.S. IP addresses.
Different corporate cultures result in different naming conventions;
and, when they do use a geographic locator in the name, more often it
refers to the location of some switching center, or transit hub, than
the end user's location.

Hi Norman! You must have an interesting résumé.

--
Bill
2 Gateway MX6124 - Windows XP SP2
3 Asus EEE PC 701G4 ~ 2GB RAM ~ 16GB-SDHC
2 Asus EEE PC 702G8 ~ 1GB RAM ~ 16GB-SDHC
Windows XP SP2 ~ Xandros Linux - Puppy - Ubuntu

 

[BillW50]

In N. Miller typed on Sun, 4 Jan 2009 11:43:50 -0800:

Silly boy. Working with a separate news and email client does not
mean "more clicks". Whether you use an "all-in-one" application, or
separate applications, going from news to mail will take the same
effort in clicks expnded.

Hmm... it does for me. Since one covers the other and I have to click the
other just to see it. Maybe you two are using those fancy high resolution
displays or multi-monitors perhaps?

Ditto for two applications.

Not for me either. One covers the other and requires an extra click just to
change it to the foreground. The largest resolution I use is 1280x1024 (and
sometimes as little as 800x480 on the EeePC screens). I have used dual
monitors for awhile, but I quit once I got into virtual desktops (currently
using AltDesk v1.8).

--
Bill
2 Gateway MX6124 - Windows XP SP2
3 Asus EEE PC 701G4 ~ 2GB RAM ~ 16GB-SDHC
2 Asus EEE PC 702G8 ~ 1GB RAM ~ 16GB-SDHC
Windows XP SP2 ~ Xandros Linux - Puppy - Ubuntu