New video card

[johns]

Want to buy a new video card to replace my ATI 9800 Pro. I've tried to
compare
the 9800 with more modern cards, and it seems nearly impossible to do.
Too
much jargon and hype. I've read that the 9800 was ATIs equivalent to
the
nVidia 5800. I've more than proven to myself that simply is not true.
The
5800 is an older generation card and when I compared its operation in
the
games I play, it was not even close. I've recently benched my 9800
against
a new nVidia 6800GT pci-e 16. Both PCs were nearly equivalent. The 9800
was in my AMD64 3000+ , and the 6800 was in a Dell 9100 P4-64bit. Both
had 1 gig ram, and hyperthreading was turned on in the Dell. I used
3dmark2001.
The 9800 scored 19,800 and the 6800 scored 17,200. In the game Far Cry
I can run the settings maxed out on both cards. The 6800 shows slightly
better frame rate, but not dramatic. Also, the 6800 does not have the
smooth glowing graphics that the 9800 can produce. I find that to be
odd.
Obviously I would be wasting my money on the 6800 .. unless there is
a better 6800 ???? And I'm not hearing great things about the 7800
either. I've looked at the ATI X800 and the X850XL. What do those
cards compare to in the nVidia world? Has anybody traded up to the
X850 from a 9800? Was it worth it?

johns

 

[Ann]

Want to buy a new video card to replace my ATI 9800 Pro. I've tried to
compare
the 9800 with more modern cards, and it seems nearly impossible to do.
Too
much jargon and hype. I've read that the 9800 was ATIs equivalent to
the
nVidia 5800. I've more than proven to myself that simply is not true.
The
5800 is an older generation card and when I compared its operation in
the
games I play, it was not even close. I've recently benched my 9800
against
a new nVidia 6800GT pci-e 16. Both PCs were nearly equivalent. The 9800
was in my AMD64 3000+ , and the 6800 was in a Dell 9100 P4-64bit. Both
had 1 gig ram, and hyperthreading was turned on in the Dell. I used
3dmark2001.
The 9800 scored 19,800 and the 6800 scored 17,200. In the game Far Cry
I can run the settings maxed out on both cards. The 6800 shows slightly
better frame rate, but not dramatic. Also, the 6800 does not have the
smooth glowing graphics that the 9800 can produce. I find that to be
odd.
Obviously I would be wasting my money on the 6800 .. unless there is
a better 6800 ???? And I'm not hearing great things about the 7800
either. I've looked at the ATI X800 and the X850XL. What do those
cards compare to in the nVidia world? Has anybody traded up to the
X850 from a 9800? Was it worth it?

Have you looked at Tom's Hardware site for a comparison of cards?

http://graphics.tomshardware.com/index.html

Ann

 

[John Doe]

Want to buy a new video card to replace my ATI 9800 Pro. I've
tried to compare the 9800 with more modern cards, and it seems
nearly impossible to do. Too much jargon and hype. I've read that
the 9800 was ATIs equivalent to the nVidia 5800. I've more than
proven to myself that simply is not true. The 5800 is an older
generation card and when I compared its operation in the games I
play, it was not even close. I've recently benched my 9800 against
a new nVidia 6800GT pci-e 16. Both PCs were nearly equivalent. The
9800 was in my AMD64 3000+ , and the 6800 was in a Dell 9100
P4-64bit. Both had 1 gig ram, and hyperthreading was turned on in
the Dell. I used 3dmark2001. The 9800 scored 19,800 and the 6800
scored 17,200.

I've heard that 3DMark is heavily weighted towards ATI video cards.
It certainly seems to be that way in my comparisons.

According to all of the user reviews I have read, the NVIDIA Geforce
6600GT outperforms the ATI 9800 Pro.

 

[Michael Hawes]

I've heard that 3DMark is heavily weighted towards ATI video cards.
It certainly seems to be that way in my comparisons.

According to all of the user reviews I have read, the NVIDIA Geforce
6600GT outperforms the ATI 9800 Pro.

3DMark 2001 is too old to test these cards. You need 3DMark 2003 to test
the DX9 features. Older games only use DX7 or 8.
Mike.

 

[johns]

Yes, and I've caught Tom exaggerating a tad. Also, he doesn't
seem to be aware of just what we are doing out here when we
upgrade a gaming machine. I really am looking for my box to
just smoke in a game. I don't want to fall for any of the hype
out there that will just hand me the same old box for a lot of
money. The machine I have now, is well optimized, and it was
worth it to spend time actually testing parts before I settled
on a good working combo. The 9800 really likes the nVidia3
chipset. It sucks on the VIA chipset. Also, I've learned a lot
about Kingston Ram. They are careless about their specs
and which machines their ram will perform in. I found exactly
the right memory for the Gigabyte K8ns mobo I'm using. And
finally I chose the Hitachi 160 gig SATA. It has much less
latency than the Maxtors, and helps a great deal in generating
a smooth game at high settings. Toms Hardware nixes
every one of those parts .. making me think he never tested
any of it.

johns

 

[johns]

It sure as heck should, but it doesn't. I eyeballed the comparison
between the two cards, and the 6800 is better, but not by much.
I think the problem with the nVidia cards benching low is possibly
caused by nVidia optimizing the card for specific games. For
example, in Far Cry, when using an nVidia 6800, I constantly run
across weapons chaches that are just not there when using an
ATI card. In other words, nVidia embeds game elements in the
bios of their cards, and then the game settings are overridden.
That causes their cards to perform poorly in benchmarks that
will not allow their settings to be overridden. That also explains
why nVidia cards have problems adapting to newer games that
they did not anticipate. My ATI 9800 can be adapted to newer
games ... both by Catalyst driver updates, and by in-game
settings. I just went through that with COD2. My box went in
the dirt with that game, but word got out that the Catalyst 5.11
driver updated the 9800 performance in that game. I tried it,
and it sure did. I have good FPS at 1024x768. The nVidia 7800
is struggleing just like my 9800, but so far, nVidia has no fix,
and says wait for the CoD2 patch. Fine, but in the meantime
those guys are holding a $400 card that is broke ... while my
9800 is getting it done. Still, I'd like to get the 12 to 16 pipes
for future gaming.

johns

 

[johns]

Yep. Sooner or later, I'm going to break down and buy 2003.
I wish the video card industry would come around and give us
those benchmarking programs for free. $30 is $30 just to
get a number. I just read where some guy broke 9000 in
2003. Wonder what that means ?

johns

 

[John Doe]

I think the problem with the nVidia cards [3DMark] benching low is
possibly caused by nVidia optimizing the card for specific games.
For example, in Far Cry, when using an nVidia 6800, I constantly
run across weapons chaches that are just not there when using an
ATI card. In other words, nVidia embeds game elements in the
bios of their cards, and then the game settings are overridden.

That's interesting johns.

 

[Ed Medlin]

Yep. Sooner or later, I'm going to break down and buy 2003.
I wish the video card industry would come around and give us
those benchmarking programs for free. $30 is $30 just to
get a number. I just read where some guy broke 9000 in
2003. Wonder what that means ?

johns

I upgraded from an NVidia FX5950 to a PCIE X850 and it outperforms the 5950
by a good margin. In non-dx9 games and apps, there is much less difference
other than a few fps and smoother operation. I have an Intel 6xxJ S775
platform with a gig of DDR2/533 fyi. The 5950 is fairly close to the 9800 in
performance (as close as I can get in that generation of cards from NVidia).
YMMV.....

Ed

 

[Andy Jeffries]

I've recently benched my 9800 against
a new nVidia 6800GT pci-e 16. Both PCs were nearly equivalent. The 9800
was in my AMD64 3000+ , and the 6800 was in a Dell 9100 P4-64bit. Both had
1 gig ram, and hyperthreading was turned on in the Dell. I used
3dmark2001.

I think you're not comparing apples with apples. It say that Athlon64's
generally make better gaming CPUs and you don't mention the speed of the
P4-64bit.

The 9800 scored 19,800 and the 6800 scored 17,200.

While I can't comment on your 9800 speed, I get 21,120 out of my 6800GT on
3dMark2001 and 11,492 on 3dMark2003.

In the game Far Cry I
can run the settings maxed out on both cards.

At what res?

Maybe try a more demanding game (such as FEAR or Quake 4) to see the
difference.

The other difference you may see is when you turn HDR lighting or
additional vegetation on (both nVidia tweaks as far as I know).

To compare the difference between the cards you really need to be
stretching them and using a 4 year old benchmark and 2.5 year old game
just won't do that.

Cheers,

 

[johns]

Far Cry is the only game right now that I'm really familiar with.
I don't trust benchmarks very much, but just as a "benchmark".
I'm using 1024x768 resolution. I just started trying to "fix"
CoD2 on my 9800, and, so far, I'm getting fair results with
no crashes, but I'm pretty sure my 9800 has reached its
limit in gaming. As for which 6800, I should consider, the
market has a bucket-load of them, and the prices are all
over the place ???? I just don't understand what is going
on in the nVidia world. I'm really watching the X850, and
so far I hear no big complaints. Will have to give FEAR a
try.

johns

 

[johns]

Got down the FEAR demo. You are right. HUGE difference between
the 9800 and the 6800 ... brighter, faster to be exact. Also, all the
maximum video settings were autodetected and work fine. 9800,
on the other hand detected at "medium settings" and there was a
problem with brightness. I can probably compensate for most of
that on the 9800, but I suspect the FPS will go down. Now, I've got
to figure out if the AGP versions of the 6800 and X850 are just as
good as the pci-e 6800 ???

johns

 

[Andy Jeffries]

Got down the FEAR demo. You are right. HUGE difference between the 9800
and the 6800 ... brighter, faster to be exact. Also, all the maximum video
settings were autodetected and work fine. 9800, on the other hand
detected at "medium settings" and there was a problem with brightness. I
can probably compensate for most of that on the 9800, but I suspect the
FPS will go down. Now, I've got to figure out if the AGP versions of the
6800 and X850 are just as good as the pci-e 6800 ???

I'm running an AGP 6800GT OC (BFG) and it's absolutely fantastic. I can't
run FEAR or Quake 4 at 1600x1200 (like I can Half-life 2, Far Cry or Doom
3) but it still looks absolutely fantastic and I get decent framerates.

Cheers,

 

[Bob M]

Far Cry is the only game right now that I'm really familiar with.
I don't trust benchmarks very much, but just as a "benchmark".
I'm using 1024x768 resolution. I just started trying to "fix"
CoD2 on my 9800, and, so far, I'm getting fair results with
no crashes, but I'm pretty sure my 9800 has reached its
limit in gaming. As for which 6800, I should consider, the
market has a bucket-load of them, and the prices are all
over the place ???? I just don't understand what is going
on in the nVidia world. I'm really watching the X850, and
so far I hear no big complaints. Will have to give FEAR a
try.

johns

I'm playing Fear right now with a 9800 Pro. No problems at all as long
as you turn off shadows in the game. Great game by the way.

Bob

 

[johns]

Hmm, got to go price that card. Thanks

johns

 

[johns]

It is certainly playable with the 9800. I have shadows on, but
I let autodetect set rest to medium, and at 1024x768 it runs
well. I like the easy pace of that game too. Try CoD2 on the
9800. It is crazy making. I can't hit the side of a barn because
my FPS is a little low. With this 6800 I'm testing, my FPS is
so high that I can just lock on to what I'm aiming at, and my
game play is much better.

johns

 

[johns]

Uh .. erp! It ain't free.

johns

 

[Andy Jeffries]

Uh .. erp! It ain't free.

Eh? You were thinking a 6800GT would be free?

I bought it because it has lifetime support (from BFG, not the retailer)
and it was getting very respectable scores in benchmarks.

Turns out to be a good decision and it handles everything I throw at it
with ease

Cheers,


Andy