New System Purchase Question

  • Thread starter Matt Silberstein
  • Start date
M

Matt Silberstein

I am buying a new computer and really want an AMD. I will be doing
graphics and software dev and other stuff. I know that dual core will
be good for me. My problem is with the system maker, who do I go to?
Alienware looks great, but they optimize for games players and are
quite expensive (I know that the last 1% of performance costs the
most, I just don't need it.) HP seems so middling in what they offer.
I don't want to put this together myself, I can (and have) done it but
it is not fun for me. So does anyone have a suggestion for a
reasonably reliable, reasonably cost effective system?

TIA.


--
Matt Silberstein

Do something today about the Darfur Genocide

http://www.beawitness.org
http://www.darfurgenocide.org
http://www.savedarfur.org

"Darfur: A Genocide We can Stop"
 
G

General Schvantzkoph

I am buying a new computer and really want an AMD. I will be doing
graphics and software dev and other stuff. I know that dual core will
be good for me. My problem is with the system maker, who do I go to?
Alienware looks great, but they optimize for games players and are
quite expensive (I know that the last 1% of performance costs the
most, I just don't need it.) HP seems so middling in what they offer.
I don't want to put this together myself, I can (and have) done it but
it is not fun for me. So does anyone have a suggestion for a
reasonably reliable, reasonably cost effective system?

TIA.

If you want to build yourself a system then buy the components from
Newegg. If you want a system built for you then MonarchComputer is a good
choice, I got an X2 4400+ system from them.
 
G

Gojira

Stay away from Alienware,their prices are inflated,their ratings for
reliability and customer service are terrible.Try Monarch or Envision
Computer Services,good prices and ratings.
 
Y

Yousuf Khan

Matt said:
I am buying a new computer and really want an AMD. I will be doing
graphics and software dev and other stuff. I know that dual core will
be good for me. My problem is with the system maker, who do I go to?
Alienware looks great, but they optimize for games players and are
quite expensive (I know that the last 1% of performance costs the
most, I just don't need it.) HP seems so middling in what they offer.
I don't want to put this together myself, I can (and have) done it but
it is not fun for me. So does anyone have a suggestion for a
reasonably reliable, reasonably cost effective system?

Not sure what you got against HP, it looks like you're looking for a
middle-of-the-road system, and HP will suit you just fine.

Gateway also sells such systems through its Emachines division.

Yousuf Khan
 
J

Joe Yong

I would second the comments by General S and Gojira. I've bought a LOT of
items over the past 4-5 years from Newegg and they've never let me down, not
even once. Doing a great job on occassion is easy; ALWAYS delivering is what
sets Newegg apart from the crowd.

Alienware certainly is overpriced but they have the "cool" factor though I
place no value there (others may).

Never dealt with Monarch but I have heard good things about them on a
regular basis.

Dell, HP and Gateway are ok if you just want a box and stick to factory
spec. The stuff that they churn out by the thousands are generally well
configured (meaning, play nice together) and reliable so you'll rarely need
to deal with customer service. At least that's been my experience. They may
not have the best rigs or components but if you use them for what they're
intended, they're workhorses. If you're gonna tweak, customize, enhance or
add stuff, you'll probably be better off with whiteboxes or building your
own.


joe.
 
G

General Schvantzkoph

Not sure what you got against HP, it looks like you're looking for a
middle-of-the-road system, and HP will suit you just fine.

Gateway also sells such systems through its Emachines division.

Yousuf Khan

I have an HP A64 laptop and a 3800+ desktop and they are both fine
machines. However I was just looking at the HP site because we are looking
to get another system for simulation. HP doesn't have any X2 4400+
machines, the best they have is X2 4200+ which only has 1/2M caches vs 1M
on the 4400+, so HP isn't a great choice for an A64 development machine at
the moment. HP does have dual Opteron workstations so if you are looking
for a 4 core system they do have some good offerings right now. I also
looked at the MonarchComputer site again, a 4400+ system with 4G of
premium OCZ DDR, a 250G Seagate SATA drive, a DVD RW, a Thermaltake case
and Cooler, and a 500W Enermax supply will set you back a little over
$1600 which is a decent deal. The Opteron 175, which is identical to an X2
4400+, curiously is a few bucks cheaper so I'd choose that if I were
ordering a system today. I didn't include the graphics card in the
calculation because the price range is so wide, $60 to $1900, I'd pick the
cheapest card for my needs but the OP wants to do graphics development so
he needs something much better. I also didn't include the OS in the price
either. The nice thing about Monarch is that they'll sell you a system
without an OS which is how I buy them. Windows users will have to add in
the cost of an XP license which is $239 for XP64.
 
G

Garry Owen

On Mon, 05 Dec 2005 16:26:29 GMT, Matt Silberstein

I'll add my vote for Monarch Computer WWW.monarchcomputer.com with one
caveat. They generally are slower to build and ship than the 15 days
they state on their website. The up side far outways their slowness
which is about 5 more days to build.

You get to choose the brands and models you want of all components;
MB, HD, power supply, case, fans, CPU, RAM, CD, DVD, floppy, and sound
card if you want one, just to name a few. You can even select round
cabling for better air flow. Cables are tied and or sleved to keep
them out of the way.

It does take a little more savvy buying from them just because they
have so many choices. But in the end you can get a top quality
system.
 
M

Matt Silberstein

I have an HP A64 laptop and a 3800+ desktop and they are both fine
machines. However I was just looking at the HP site because we are looking
to get another system for simulation. HP doesn't have any X2 4400+
machines, the best they have is X2 4200+ which only has 1/2M caches vs 1M
on the 4400+, so HP isn't a great choice for an A64 development machine at
the moment. HP does have dual Opteron workstations so if you are looking
for a 4 core system they do have some good offerings right now. I also
looked at the MonarchComputer site again, a 4400+ system with 4G of
premium OCZ DDR, a 250G Seagate SATA drive, a DVD RW, a Thermaltake case
and Cooler, and a 500W Enermax supply will set you back a little over
$1600 which is a decent deal.

Without a monitor, right?
The Opteron 175, which is identical to an X2
4400+, curiously is a few bucks cheaper so I'd choose that if I were
ordering a system today. I didn't include the graphics card in the
calculation because the price range is so wide, $60 to $1900, I'd pick the
cheapest card for my needs but the OP wants to do graphics development so
he needs something much better. I also didn't include the OS in the price
either. The nice thing about Monarch is that they'll sell you a system
without an OS which is how I buy them. Windows users will have to add in
the cost of an XP license which is $239 for XP64.

I have that so not including it is a bonus.

--
Matt Silberstein

Do something today about the Darfur Genocide

http://www.beawitness.org
http://www.darfurgenocide.org
http://www.savedarfur.org

"Darfur: A Genocide We can Stop"
 
M

Matt Silberstein

I would second the comments by General S and Gojira. I've bought a LOT of
items over the past 4-5 years from Newegg and they've never let me down, not
even once. Doing a great job on occassion is easy; ALWAYS delivering is what
sets Newegg apart from the crowd.

Alienware certainly is overpriced but they have the "cool" factor though I
place no value there (others may).

Never dealt with Monarch but I have heard good things about them on a
regular basis.

Dell, HP and Gateway are ok if you just want a box and stick to factory
spec. The stuff that they churn out by the thousands are generally well
configured (meaning, play nice together) and reliable so you'll rarely need
to deal with customer service. At least that's been my experience. They may
not have the best rigs or components but if you use them for what they're
intended, they're workhorses. If you're gonna tweak, customize, enhance or
add stuff, you'll probably be better off with whiteboxes or building your
own.

Then I have to add coming back up to speed on motherboards and memory
and, sigh, everything. Ok, so what motherboards make sense for a
X2-4400? And what memory? I was probably going to get a nvida 6800
and either a Ego Juli@ or Audiophile 2496 sound card. I'm getting one
drive for now as the prices keep dropping and it is easy to drop in
another drive.

--
Matt Silberstein

Do something today about the Darfur Genocide

http://www.beawitness.org
http://www.darfurgenocide.org
http://www.savedarfur.org

"Darfur: A Genocide We can Stop"
 
G

Gojira

Matt Silberstein said:
Then I have to add coming back up to speed on motherboards and memory
and, sigh, everything. Ok, so what motherboards make sense for a
X2-4400? And what memory? I was probably going to get a nvida 6800
and either a Ego Juli@ or Audiophile 2496 sound card. I'm getting one
drive for now as the prices keep dropping and it is easy to drop in
another drive.

--
Matt Silberstein

Do something today about the Darfur Genocide

http://www.beawitness.org
http://www.darfurgenocide.org
http://www.savedarfur.org

"Darfur: A Genocide We can Stop"

Since you're not using it for gaming,you don't need an SLI motherboard,a
board with the NF4 chipset would support X2 CPU'S ,Abit makes very stable
and reliable boards.For memory,you need DDR 400 PC3200 RAM,using two matched
sticks in dual channel works best.
 
M

Matt Silberstein

Since you're not using it for gaming,you don't need an SLI motherboard,a
board with the NF4 chipset would support X2 CPU'S ,Abit makes very stable
and reliable boards.For memory,you need DDR 400 PC3200 RAM,using two matched
sticks in dual channel works best.
Thanks. And I have tried to figure out from the various memory
versions with that spec. There seems to be a wide range of price and,
so, a wide range of ability (I assume).

--
Matt Silberstein

Do something today about the Darfur Genocide

http://www.beawitness.org
http://www.darfurgenocide.org
http://www.savedarfur.org

"Darfur: A Genocide We can Stop"
 
M

Matt Silberstein

Since you're not using it for gaming,you don't need an SLI motherboard,a
board with the NF4 chipset would support X2 CPU'S ,Abit makes very stable
and reliable boards.For memory,you need DDR 400 PC3200 RAM,using two matched
sticks in dual channel works best.

Thanks to you and thanks to all in case I forgot. And since you have
been helpful I am going to try to push my luck. I live in a small NYC
apt, real estate is at a premium. One of my goals it to have the
system be my "stereo" (what is the current accept term?) as well as my
work system. Anyway, as to space, I would love a small form system if
I can make it work. Anyone know if these are any good:

http://global.shuttle.com/Product/Barebone/brb_default.asp

They seem to have just enough slots and room for expansion. I was
thinking about this one:
http://global.shuttle.com/Product/Barebone/SN25P.asp

Yeah, it is only FireWire 400 and in 2-3 years I will need to get a
new system. But it also means I can fit it in a small space and get
everything I need right now. Anyone know if this is a good system or
if there are good ones out there?


--
Matt Silberstein

Do something today about the Darfur Genocide

http://www.beawitness.org
http://www.darfurgenocide.org
http://www.savedarfur.org

"Darfur: A Genocide We can Stop"
 
M

Matt Silberstein

On Tue, 06 Dec 2005 18:13:23 GMT, in alt.comp.hardware.amd.x86-64 ,
Matt Silberstein <[email protected]> in

[snip]
Thanks to you and thanks to all in case I forgot. And since you have
been helpful I am going to try to push my luck. I live in a small NYC
apt, real estate is at a premium. One of my goals it to have the
system be my "stereo" (what is the current accept term?) as well as my
work system. Anyway, as to space, I would love a small form system if
I can make it work. Anyone know if these are any good:

http://global.shuttle.com/Product/Barebone/brb_default.asp

They seem to have just enough slots and room for expansion. I was
thinking about this one:
http://global.shuttle.com/Product/Barebone/SN25P.asp

Yeah, it is only FireWire 400 and in 2-3 years I will need to get a
new system. But it also means I can fit it in a small space and get
everything I need right now. Anyone know if this is a good system or
if there are good ones out there?

Ok, I was wrong, there is only the one slot and that has to be video.
I need good audio and the board seems to have ok audio. So I am back
to square one.

<sigh>

--
Matt Silberstein

Do something today about the Darfur Genocide

http://www.beawitness.org
http://www.darfurgenocide.org
http://www.savedarfur.org

"Darfur: A Genocide We can Stop"
 
G

Gojira

Matt Silberstein said:
On Tue, 06 Dec 2005 18:13:23 GMT, in alt.comp.hardware.amd.x86-64 ,
Matt Silberstein <[email protected]> in

[snip]
Thanks to you and thanks to all in case I forgot. And since you have
been helpful I am going to try to push my luck. I live in a small NYC
apt, real estate is at a premium. One of my goals it to have the
system be my "stereo" (what is the current accept term?) as well as my
work system. Anyway, as to space, I would love a small form system if
I can make it work. Anyone know if these are any good:

http://global.shuttle.com/Product/Barebone/brb_default.asp

They seem to have just enough slots and room for expansion. I was
thinking about this one:
http://global.shuttle.com/Product/Barebone/SN25P.asp

Yeah, it is only FireWire 400 and in 2-3 years I will need to get a
new system. But it also means I can fit it in a small space and get
everything I need right now. Anyone know if this is a good system or
if there are good ones out there?

Ok, I was wrong, there is only the one slot and that has to be video.
I need good audio and the board seems to have ok audio. So I am back
to square one.

<sigh>

--
Matt Silberstein

Do something today about the Darfur Genocide

http://www.beawitness.org
http://www.darfurgenocide.org
http://www.savedarfur.org

"Darfur: A Genocide We can Stop"

If you're looking for a small form system,take a look at this one :
http://www.monarchcomputer.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=M&Product_Code=80410
 
M

Matt Silberstein

On Wed, 07 Dec 2005 08:51:12 GMT, in alt.comp.hardware.amd.x86-64 ,

[snip]


Monarch seems a bit pricey. I think they are putting lots of the build
cost into the parts. I went to NewEgg and configured a Biostar iDEQ
330N for $3-400 less than the Monarch system. Biostar seems to get
pretty good reviews.


--
Matt Silberstein

Do something today about the Darfur Genocide

http://www.beawitness.org
http://www.darfurgenocide.org
http://www.savedarfur.org

"Darfur: A Genocide We can Stop"
 
G

Guest

Matt Silberstein said:
On Tue, 06 Dec 2005 18:13:23 GMT, in alt.comp.hardware.amd.x86-64 ,
Matt Silberstein <[email protected]> in

[snip]
Thanks to you and thanks to all in case I forgot. And since you have
been helpful I am going to try to push my luck. I live in a small NYC
apt, real estate is at a premium. One of my goals it to have the
system be my "stereo" (what is the current accept term?) as well as my
work system. Anyway, as to space, I would love a small form system if
I can make it work. Anyone know if these are any good:

http://global.shuttle.com/Product/Barebone/brb_default.asp

They seem to have just enough slots and room for expansion. I was
thinking about this one:
http://global.shuttle.com/Product/Barebone/SN25P.asp

Yeah, it is only FireWire 400 and in 2-3 years I will need to get a
new system. But it also means I can fit it in a small space and get
everything I need right now. Anyone know if this is a good system or
if there are good ones out there?

Ok, I was wrong, there is only the one slot and that has to be video.
I need good audio and the board seems to have ok audio. So I am back
to square one.
snip snip

The shuttle has two slots, one 16x express, one 1x express slot.
Firewire ,usb, digital and analog audio in and outs are there also. I
have two of the sn25p.
 
M

Matt Silberstein

Matt Silberstein said:
On Tue, 06 Dec 2005 18:13:23 GMT, in alt.comp.hardware.amd.x86-64 ,
Matt Silberstein <[email protected]> in

[snip]

Thanks to you and thanks to all in case I forgot. And since you have
been helpful I am going to try to push my luck. I live in a small NYC
apt, real estate is at a premium. One of my goals it to have the
system be my "stereo" (what is the current accept term?) as well as my
work system. Anyway, as to space, I would love a small form system if
I can make it work. Anyone know if these are any good:

http://global.shuttle.com/Product/Barebone/brb_default.asp

They seem to have just enough slots and room for expansion. I was
thinking about this one:
http://global.shuttle.com/Product/Barebone/SN25P.asp

Yeah, it is only FireWire 400 and in 2-3 years I will need to get a
new system. But it also means I can fit it in a small space and get
everything I need right now. Anyone know if this is a good system or
if there are good ones out there?

Ok, I was wrong, there is only the one slot and that has to be video.
I need good audio and the board seems to have ok audio. So I am back
to square one.
snip snip

The shuttle has two slots, one 16x express, one 1x express slot.
Firewire ,usb, digital and analog audio in and outs are there also. I
have two of the sn25p.

Thanks. I have, (un)fortunately, picked up the builder bug. That is, I
am really enjoying my process of planning. Since I am not likely to do
this again for some time I want to get all of my enjoyment. So,
anyway, I have re-examined my needs and have decided on a slightly
bigger system, so I am going to go with a mini-atx. (I would like to
go with a btx system, since I like the design concepts behind it, but
AMD wins out over that.)

I have two big requirement/design questions to decide on before I go
and buy and build. First, I am not sure if I want this to be my video
system (not sure if I even want a TV). Second, I am trying to decide
between having my main storage in the box or in a separate box. Two
smaller boxes are easier to fit in and easier to cool (but that is not
really significant). And it is easier to pick-up the drive box and
move it in an emergency. (That may not mean much to most people, but I
have been evacuated 4 times in my life, it is part of my planning
these days.)

As for the audio, how good is it? I plan on using this system as my
primary sound system, feeding the sound to simple amp and controlling
everything from the computer. Is the on-board sound ok or very good?

Thanks anyway. Gee this is fun.

--
Matt Silberstein

Do something today about the Darfur Genocide

http://www.beawitness.org
http://www.darfurgenocide.org
http://www.savedarfur.org

"Darfur: A Genocide We can Stop"
 
A

ASAAR

Thanks. I have, (un)fortunately, picked up the builder bug. That is, I
am really enjoying my process of planning. Since I am not likely to do
this again for some time I want to get all of my enjoyment. So,
anyway, I have re-examined my needs and have decided on a slightly
bigger system, so I am going to go with a mini-atx. (I would like to
go with a btx system, since I like the design concepts behind it, but
AMD wins out over that.)

I've usually built my computers, but with the recent rapid
breakdown of my last one needed to get a replacement fairly quickly,
so after looking around for several days, chose HP's m7470n.
Tomorrow it'll be 2 weeks old, and it's worked perfectly so far.

I have two big requirement/design questions to decide on before I go
and buy and build. First, I am not sure if I want this to be my video
system (not sure if I even want a TV). Second, I am trying to decide
between having my main storage in the box or in a separate box. Two
smaller boxes are easier to fit in and easier to cool (but that is not
really significant). And it is easier to pick-up the drive box and
move it in an emergency. (That may not mean much to most people, but I
have been evacuated 4 times in my life, it is part of my planning
these days.)

I didn't have much interest in getting a multimedia capable
system, but that's what the m7470n is. I selected it because of its
capable hardware, which is really mandatory for XP MCE, and it seems
that all of the lesser hardware configurations didn't include the
multimedia junk but the more powerful ones did, so I capitulated.
I've been pleasantly surprised at how well it works. DVDs play just
as well (and a bit more conveniently) compared to my TV and external
DVD player, and although I'm only using an old, relatively
inexpensive set of Altec Lansing powered speakers, the audio sound
it good enough, at least for now. Price (from Best Buy) was just
under $1,000, and for a little more than $100 extra, got a very nice
HP LCD monitor and cheap HP all-in-one printer/copier. The CPU
doesn't have the larger L2 cache available in the X2-4400, but that
only benefits some programs, and I doubt that the difference would
be significant. I'd take it if HP offered it, though. :)

What the m7470n came with is this: AMD X2-4200 @2.2GHz, 2GB of
PC-3200 DDR occupying only 2 of 4 memory slots (expandable to 4GB),
300GB SATA hard drive, embedded ATI Radeon Xpress 200, MSI MS-7184
motherboard, 16X DVD(+/-)R/RW RAM (+/-)R DL LightScribe drive and a
second 16X DVD ROM drive, modem, Hauppage WinTV and FM tuner PCI
card, RealTek AC'97 audio controller (up to 5.1 speaker systems and
digital audio out), 10/100 Base-T controller, card reader for
multiple card types, multiple front ports (1 firewire, 2 USB HS),
multiple rear ports (1 firewire, 4 USB HS), and two free PCI slots
(one normal, the other PCI Express x16), optical mouse and a very
nice infrared remote and IR receiver. Despite Best Buy's own
documentation and specifications to the contrary, it did include a
parallel port.

As for the audio, how good is it? I plan on using this system as my
primary sound system, feeding the sound to simple amp and controlling
everything from the computer. Is the on-board sound ok or very good?

It's ok, but I can't tell if it's very good since I haven't hooked
it up to a decent audio system yet. Everything is easily controlled
from either the computer's keyboard/mouse or from the included
remote. Just yesterday I ripped the wav files from two CDs to the
hard drive (Earl Hines and Schumann Concertos) and am at the moment
listening to the Concerto in D Minor for violin and orchestra. It
just ended, as has this followup. :)
 

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