new system bootup woes


A

Adam

Cybe R. Wizard said:
Thanks, I was surprised that the pins were still okay.

Actually, I was shocked to find the CPU stuck to the heatsink.
Good thing I didn't put the heatsink down. :)
I recently had the same problem (CPU held the heat sink) and got that
bent pin because of it. New PC helped a lot! ;-]

Cybe R. Wizard
Lesson learned ... always pull that heatsink "straight" up (with "both"
steady hands)!!
 
A

Adam

Adam said:
Cybe R. Wizard said:
message On Sun, 28 Dec 2014 14:10:32 -0800

Luckily, all the pins still look perfect (straight and intact).
Whew!

Good to hear!


Thanks, I was surprised that the pins were still okay.

Actually, I was shocked to find the CPU stuck to the heatsink.
Good thing I didn't put the heatsink down. :)
I recently had the same problem (CPU held the heat sink) and got that
bent pin because of it. New PC helped a lot! ;-]

Cybe R. Wizard
Lesson learned ... always pull that heatsink "straight" up (with "both"
steady even hands)!!
And, always look at the copper before putting it down. :)
 
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A

Adam

Paul said:
Jonathan said:
Cybe said:
On Sun, 28 Dec 2014 18:17:42 -0800


message On Sun, 28 Dec 2014 14:10:32 -0800

Luckily, all the pins still look perfect (straight and intact).
Whew!

Good to hear!


Thanks, I was surprised that the pins were still okay.

Actually, I was shocked to find the CPU stuck to the heatsink.
Good thing I didn't put the heatsink down. :)

I recently had the same problem (CPU held the heat sink) and got that
bent pin because of it. New PC helped a lot! ;-]
Something to be said for the newer packages by Intel with "bumps" not
pins. No more anguished moan when a bent pin becomes a missing pin on a
not-too-cheap CPU.
Both schemes have their pluses and minuses.

For the pin and ZIF socket case, you can use a ball point pen
refill (the old kind with the metal tube), and slide that over
the pin to use as a lever, to straighten it out. You don't
need to use needle nose pliers to fix one. If a pin gets bent
over to a 90 degree angle, chances are it's toast when
straightened up.
For the ball point pen refill, which ones (make, model,
fine or medium?, etc.) are best? URL?

The ZIF sockets have pretty good properties. I've not heard of
electrical issues with them. They can withstand the odd "pull-out"
accident. They can be completely destroyed if you put your
muscles into it (the top will pop off).

The Land Grid Array concept, the socket is the weak link.
When I bought my last motherboard from a local retailer,
I couldn't leave the store with the purchase, until we
went over to their support desk. And had a "socket check"
before leaving the store. That's a visual inspection for
damage to the socket, so later you cannot bring the
motherboard back and complain the product shipped with
a damaged socket. But that does indeed happen - products
do leave the factory with crushed spring contacts in
the socket. The evidence suggests the motherboard got
damaged at the factory, just before being put into the box.

LGA sockets vary in quality. There was an incident recorded on
Anandtech, where socket springs seemed to be making poor
contact, which was detected later on when overclocking and
the other contacts would overheat. I've never heard of
a ZIF socket quality problem, so perhaps they're a bit
easier to make. The springs in an LGA are pretty brittle.
The spring in the socket "bites" into the land pad on
the other side. You can see a mark on the CPU, once it's
been inserted into the socket. I don't know how many
cycles such a scheme could take. I haven't been pulling
CPUs out of LGA motherboards here all that often,
to discover what the limit might be.

Maybe the LGA scheme can be built to higher contact
counts, than a ZIF can. The very largest LGA has
such a high contact force (due to the number of
springs times the force per spring), that it uses
two levers to close the lid. Whereas the same degree
of force isn't as evident when closing a ZIF lever.

If you had a motherboard with a ZIF socket on it,
it wouldn't need a "socket check" just after you
bought it at the computer store. It takes deliberate
tampering to mess one up.

Paul
In that case, I think I prefer the "pin and ZIF socket case" myself.
It just takes a little more delicate cautious handling.
Even a newbie like me can handle CPU reinstallation now.

When the pins are straight, the CPU naturally "falls" into
the ZIF socket when properly aligned/positioned.
 
P

Paul

Adam said:
For the ball point pen refill, which ones (make, model,
fine or medium?, etc.) are best? URL?
You go out to the kitchen, and start taking apart the old
clickie type ball point pens, and look for the right size
tube. It's been a long time, since the proper sized metal
tube refill, has been for sale.

I'm sure that somewhere, there is a real tool for the
job. I wouldn't expect the kind of retailers I have
here, to stock one.

Paul
 
A

Adam

Adam said:
"gasoline" ?!?!? Even the fumes (not to mention flammability) are not
safe.

I just used whatever I had around that made sense.



The fans spin!!! :)

purple +5.166V
green +4.321V (short PWR-GND with screwdriver) => +0.12V

That was with CPU and RAM (no video card) on cardboard.

Will install in Antec case and then install video card.
With the exception of the old PCI Creative SoundBlaster Live! 5.1 sound
card,
all componenets (video card, drives, etc.) have been installed in the Antec
case and
the system acknowledges all components on boot up with Ubuntu Live CD.

The only issue is ... I am using ...

RAM:
Crucial Ballistix Tactical 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM 8 Dual Channel Kit 1866
(PC3 15000) BLT2CP4G3D1869DT1TX0

But, system only acknowledges 8192 MB (DDR3 - 1333 MHz)

System sees all the RAM but is 1333 MHz RAM the max that this mobo supports?

Other info shown in BIOS setup ...

Voltages...
CPU 1.344V
3.3V 3.360V
5V 5.035V
12V 12.252V

Temp...
CPU +107.6F/+42.0C
MB +87.8F/+31.0C

Fan Speed...
CPU Fan ~2973 RPM
 
M

mike

You go out to the kitchen, and start taking apart the old
clickie type ball point pens, and look for the right size
tube. It's been a long time, since the proper sized metal
tube refill, has been for sale.

I'm sure that somewhere, there is a real tool for the
job. I wouldn't expect the kind of retailers I have
here, to stock one.

Paul
Hobby Store, brass tubing.
 
A

Adam

Adam said:
With the exception of the old PCI Creative SoundBlaster Live! 5.1 sound
card,
all componenets (video card, drives, etc.) have been installed in the
Antec case and
the system acknowledges all components on boot up with Ubuntu Live CD.

The only issue is ... I am using ...

RAM:
Crucial Ballistix Tactical 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM 8 Dual Channel Kit 1866
(PC3 15000) BLT2CP4G3D1869DT1TX0

But, system only acknowledges 8192 MB (DDR3 - 1333 MHz)

System sees all the RAM but is 1333 MHz RAM the max that this mobo
supports?
Ballistix 1866MHz only does 1333MHz on SABERTOOTH...
http://forum.crucial.com/t5/Crucial-Ballistix-gaming-memory/Ballistix-1866MHz-only-does-1333MHz-on-SABERTOOTH/td-p/127306
 
P

Paul

Adam said:
With the exception of the old PCI Creative SoundBlaster Live! 5.1 sound card,
all componenets (video card, drives, etc.) have been installed in the Antec
case and the system acknowledges all components on boot up with Ubuntu Live CD.

The only issue is ... I am using ...

RAM:
Crucial Ballistix Tactical 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM 8 Dual Channel Kit 1866
(PC3 15000) BLT2CP4G3D1869DT1TX0

But, system only acknowledges 8192 MB (DDR3 - 1333 MHz)

System sees all the RAM but is 1333 MHz RAM the max that this mobo supports?

Other info shown in BIOS setup ...

Voltages...
CPU 1.344V
3.3V 3.360V
5V 5.035V
12V 12.252V

Temp...
CPU +107.6F/+42.0C
MB +87.8F/+31.0C

Fan Speed...
CPU Fan ~2973 RPM
http://www.crucial.com/usa/en/blt2kit4g3d1869dt1tx0

8GB Kit (4GBx2)
DDR3-1866 9-9-9-27

*******

The AMD site is just useless for real-world problems.

http://products.amd.com/en-us/DesktopCPUDetail.aspx?id=617

The cpu-world site can sometimes fill in the gaps.

http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/K10/AMD-Phenom II X4 965 - HDX965FBK4DGM.html

Memory channels: 2
DIMMs per channel: up to 2

Supported memory: DDR2-1066 <--- CPU in AM2+ mobo
DDR3-1333 <--- CPU in AM3 mobo (yours)

So that's the stock speed (1333). Any more than
that, would involve some level of overclocking
of the memory bus.

Using your 965 part number, and going through the reviews for
that processor on Newegg, most people seem to stop at DDR3-1600
as a setting. Which suggests it doesn't have a lot of headroom.
Now, if I data mined an overclocker site, I'd likely find
a higher result than that (maybe requiring Vdimm to be bumped up).
But it doesn't appear people are overdoing it by any stretch.

Paul
 
A

Adam

Paul said:
http://www.crucial.com/usa/en/blt2kit4g3d1869dt1tx0

8GB Kit (4GBx2)
DDR3-1866 9-9-9-27

*******

The AMD site is just useless for real-world problems.

http://products.amd.com/en-us/DesktopCPUDetail.aspx?id=617

The cpu-world site can sometimes fill in the gaps.

http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/K10/AMD-Phenom II X4 965 - HDX965FBK4DGM.html

Memory channels: 2
DIMMs per channel: up to 2

Supported memory: DDR2-1066 <--- CPU in AM2+ mobo
DDR3-1333 <--- CPU in AM3 mobo (yours)

So that's the stock speed (1333). Any more than
that, would involve some level of overclocking
of the memory bus.

Using your 965 part number, and going through the reviews for
that processor on Newegg, most people seem to stop at DDR3-1600
as a setting. Which suggests it doesn't have a lot of headroom.
Now, if I data mined an overclocker site, I'd likely find
a higher result than that (maybe requiring Vdimm to be bumped up).
But it doesn't appear people are overdoing it by any stretch.

Paul
Thanks (Guru Paul), sounds like the "most" limiting factor is
not the mobo but rather the CPU. If so, I'll be keeping my eyes open for
good CPU deals. What's a good not-too-expensive CPU for my system?

BTW, memtest86+ v4.20 has been running for 43+ minutes and
so far so good with no errors.

Memtest86+ shows...
Settings: RAM: 666 MHz (DDR1333) / CAS: 11-11-11-28 / DDR3 (64 bits)
 
A

Adam

Adam said:
Thanks (Guru Paul), sounds like the "most" limiting factor is
not the mobo but rather the CPU. If so, I'll be keeping my eyes open for
good CPU deals. What's a good not-too-expensive CPU for my system?

BTW, memtest86+ v4.20 has been running for 43+ minutes and
so far so good with no errors.
Actually, running the latest Memtest86+ v5.1.0 shows...
RAM Info: PC3-14900 DDR3 XMP 933 MHz / 9-9-9-27 / Crucial Technology BLT4G3
 
P

Paul

Adam said:
Thanks (Guru Paul), sounds like the "most" limiting factor is
not the mobo but rather the CPU. If so, I'll be keeping my eyes open for
good CPU deals. What's a good not-too-expensive CPU for my system?

BTW, memtest86+ v4.20 has been running for 43+ minutes and
so far so good with no errors.

Memtest86+ shows...
Settings: RAM: 666 MHz (DDR1333) / CAS: 11-11-11-28 / DDR3 (64 bits)
You can tighten up your timing parameters a bit.
Using speed ratios and rounding up gives...

DDR3-1866 9-9-9 = DDR3-1333 7-7-7

The easiest setting to change, is to change just CAS.
For example 7-11-11-28 is better than nothing. The
utility of the parameters decreases from left to right.
The left-most one (CAS) is the most important. Since
the clock speed is dropped, a clock period is wider,
so we need fewer of them (7) to get first data from
the RAM.

Normally, I'd tell you to use CPU-Z in Windows, which can
dump the SPD table and give you some idea why the BIOS selected
those particular values.

In this example, the left-most column would be for
DDR3-1333. The frequency is 622, and double that is
close to 1333. So that would be the timing for
DDR3-1333 clock setting.

http://cdn.overclock.net/5/59/900x900px-LL-59cd4535_CPU-Z20SPD.png

Using those exact numbers, you could enter the BIOS, find
the custom memory page, and enter the numbers.

It's also possible, to dump the SPD EEPROM and analyse the
table by hand. (I have to dig up the appropriate JEDEC
decoder document, which isn't always that easy.)

I'm running Gentoo on the test box right now, and
it doesn't have module "EEPROM" in the kernel.
Without that, i2c-tools program named "decode-dimms"
won't work. And the information from decode-dimms
is not suited to directly dialing into the BIOS.
It's more a conversion of the raw hex, into English.
But without the interpretation to make timing tables.
I can't really test this at the moment, because I can't
access the eeprom. I do actually have i2c-tools loaded,
but I'm have to rebuild the kernel. And I'm not in the
mood for that right now. There's no place to
sit, where that computer is located :)

Paul
 
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