New PC to Build

[Jack Bruss]

I'm going to build a new computer for myself and I'm looking for some
advice. I currently have an Enlight 7237 atx medium tower case, Asus A7N8X
mb with AMD xp 2500 cpu, 2x256 DDR3 pc 2700 memory, and a Ti4200 video card.
My computing needs are pretty modest. I do a little gaming, mostly turn
based, spreadsheet, database, etc. The current computer works fine at this,
but I just feel the need to ramp up a bit, plus I want to be ready to run
Vista at a good pace.

I'm thinking of something like an Athlon 64 3500+ or maybe 4000+ or maybe
even a 64x2 system. I'm just starting to do a little digging on this, but
specific questions I have now are:

1) Can I use the case I have for the new computer?
2) How about the memory - is it going to work on a new system? Ditto for
video card, or will I have to go to a PCI Express setup?
3) Should I be looking for an AM2 board or 939 or something else?

Any advice is appreciated.

Jack

 

[KC Computers]

I'm going to build a new computer for myself and I'm looking for some

advice. I currently have an Enlight 7237 atx medium tower case, Asus
A7N8X mb with AMD xp 2500 cpu, 2x256 DDR3 pc 2700 memory, and a Ti4200
video card. My computing needs are pretty modest. I do a little gaming,
mostly turn based, spreadsheet, database, etc. The current computer works
fine at this, but I just feel the need to ramp up a bit, plus I want to be
ready to run Vista at a good pace.
even a 64x2 system. I'm just starting to do a little digging on this, but
specific questions I have now are:

1) Can I use the case I have for the new computer?

Yes, but you may need a new power supply. What is the wattage? Does it
have a 4-pin square motherboard power connector in addition to the
20-pin one?

2) How about the memory - is it going to work on a new system? Ditto for
video card, or will I have to go to a PCI Express setup?

Today's computers use DDR2 memory and PCI Express slots so your
DDR1 memory and AGP video card cannot be re-used.

3) Should I be looking for an AM2 board or 939 or something else?

S939 is old technology and is being phased out. AM2 is the current
AMD standard.

 

[Conor]

I'm going to build a new computer for myself and I'm looking for some
advice. I currently have an Enlight 7237 atx medium tower case, Asus A7N8X
mb with AMD xp 2500 cpu, 2x256 DDR3 pc 2700 memory, and a Ti4200 video card.
My computing needs are pretty modest. I do a little gaming, mostly turn
based, spreadsheet, database, etc. The current computer works fine at this,
but I just feel the need to ramp up a bit, plus I want to be ready to run
Vista at a good pace.

I'm thinking of something like an Athlon 64 3500+ or maybe 4000+ or maybe
even a 64x2 system. I'm just starting to do a little digging on this, but
specific questions I have now are:

1) Can I use the case I have for the new computer?
2) How about the memory - is it going to work on a new system? Ditto for
video card, or will I have to go to a PCI Express setup?
3) Should I be looking for an AM2 board or 939 or something else?

1) Yes although you'll probably need a better PSU.
2) You're going to need new memory. Vista wants 1GB. Whether you need a
new graphics card depends on the CPU socket choice although a Ti42000
is a bit long in the tooth and most integrateds will give it a run for
it's money
3) If it were my cash, AM2 as 939 is end of life.

 

[Jack Bruss]

Yes, but you may need a new power supply. What is the wattage? Does it
have a 4-pin square motherboard power connector in addition to the
20-pin one?


Today's computers use DDR2 memory and PCI Express slots so your
DDR1 memory and AGP video card cannot be re-used.


S939 is old technology and is being phased out. AM2 is the current
AMD standard.


---
KC COMPUTERS www.kc-computers.com
Computer Sales & Service since 1991!!! See customer ratings at:
www.resellerratings.com/seller1595.html

Wattage is 250. I'm not sure about the 4 pin mb connector. I'll have to
look if that's important. I bought this case in 1999, so as I look at it,
I think it's time for a new one. I see in my old specs it's got room for 4
5.25 drives and 2 3.5 drives.

 

[Mike T.]

I'm going to build a new computer for myself and I'm looking for some
advice. I currently have an Enlight 7237 atx medium tower case, Asus
A7N8X mb with AMD xp 2500 cpu, 2x256 DDR3 pc 2700 memory, and a Ti4200
video card. My computing needs are pretty modest. I do a little gaming,
mostly turn based, spreadsheet, database, etc. The current computer works
fine at this, but I just feel the need to ramp up a bit, plus I want to be
ready to run Vista at a good pace.

I'm thinking of something like an Athlon 64 3500+ or maybe 4000+ or maybe
even a 64x2 system. I'm just starting to do a little digging on this, but
specific questions I have now are:

1) Can I use the case I have for the new computer?
2) How about the memory - is it going to work on a new system? Ditto for
video card, or will I have to go to a PCI Express setup?
3) Should I be looking for an AM2 board or 939 or something else?

Any advice is appreciated.

Jack

1)You can use the case. But as someone else posted, you will need a new
power supply. The enlight 7237 is excellent, a bit older, but I built
several systems in that case. If you are happy with it, just equip it with
this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817709002
That's a good brand and good specs. at a decent price, it will handle
anything you build today, and should give you plenty of upgrade room for a
while.

2)RAM? Depends. If you don't build state-of-the-art, you can make
something to run vista, and use your current memory. HOWEVER, Vista will
require more memory. You'd want to add at least 1GB, for a total of 1.5GB.
2b)Video card is woefully inadequate. You COULD go PCI-Express, but then
you'd probably have to ditch all of your current RAM and start over with at
*least* 1Gig of new RAM. You don't have to go PCI-Express though.
Everybody's in a great hurry to adopt the latest and greatest, but few
people really need it. Right now there are plenty of good video cards
available in AGP format. A AGP format Geforce 6200 or 6600 with 256MB of
RAM should be more than adequate for Vista, unless you are a hardcore gamer.

3)You should build socket 939. That's my opinion. An athlon 64 ~3500 -
~4000 should work wonderfully for Vista. You can spend more for an AM2, but
why? Plus, if you stick with socket 939, you might be able to find a board
with 4 RAM slots that will accept your current RAM. AGP or PCI-Express,
either one. -Dave

 

[Yeff]

I'm thinking of something like an Athlon 64 3500+ or maybe 4000+ or maybe
even a 64x2 system. I'm just starting to do a little digging on this, but
specific questions I have now are:

1) Can I use the case I have for the new computer?
2) How about the memory - is it going to work on a new system? Ditto for
video card, or will I have to go to a PCI Express setup?
3) Should I be looking for an AM2 board or 939 or something else?

Any advice is appreciated.

Are you wedded to AMD or is Intel a possibility? The Intel Core 2 Duo's
are very competitively priced against AMD chips but appear to give more
bang for the buck. From a review here:
<http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2802&p=12>

The processor landscape has been changed once more thanks to AMD's
extremely aggressive price cuts. The Core 2 Duo E6300 is a better
performer than the X2 3800+ but is also more expensive, thankfully
for the E6300's sake it is also faster than the 4200+ and the 4600+
in some benchmarks. Overall the E6300 is a better buy, but at stock
speeds the advantage isn't nearly as great as the faster Core 2 parts.
In many benchmarks the X2 4200+ isn't that far off the E6300's
performance, sometimes even outperforming it at virtually the same price.
Overclocking changes everything though, as our 2.592GHz E6300 ended up
faster than AMD's FX-62 in almost every single benchmark. If you're not
an overclocker, then the Athlon 64 X2 4200+ looks to be a competitive
alternative to the Core 2 E6300.

.....

The E6300 and E6400 can easily overclock to E6700 and Core 2 Extreme X6800
levels, though the smaller cache does limit performance a bit. That being
said, our overclocked E6300 was able to equal and in all cases but one
outperform AMD's Athlon 64 FX-62. In fact, in quite a few benchmarks, the
overclocked E6300 is essentially out of reach of anything AMD can offer
with their current K8 designs. At $183, the value here is tremendous, and
if you're willing to overclock the benefits don't get any clearer than
that.

-----------

I had been looking at going with an AMD after my current Intel 2.8Ghz HT
craps out, but now I've got to give some serious thought to a Core 2 Duo,
probably the E6400. Granted I've never built an AMD box before so I can't
really comment, but the two lower-end Core Duo's are looking mighty
tasty...

 

[kony]

Frankly I think you're lucky to have gotten the 250W PSU to
run those parts, it might have had a lot to do with the
A7N8X running the CPU power subcircuit off the 5V PSU rail.

I bought a few of those cases with the 250, 300, 340W, (then
"maybe" 360, don't recall if exact same case on this 360)
and anything under 340 wasn't a very good PSU. IIRC I even
had a system in recently that had one of the 340 with a
blown transistor so my recollection of it is a little better
than most PSU that old.

It (and especially your lower 250W unit) doesn't have the
12V current capacity required for a modern system. The case
you can keep using (though it's ventilation is borderline by
today's standards, personally I'd take out the front bottom
plastic fan mount/card-guide, then cut out the stamped-in
metal fan grills on that bottom front and mid-rear fan
hole(s). It also doesn't (IIRC) force any of the front fan
air past the hard drive rack which is unfortunate, I seem to
recall taking a drive cage cannibalized from another case
and mounting it to the floor of one of those cases so the
drives were sitting directly behind that lower front fan,
better cooled by it.

Otherwise, the case is standard ATX and plenty deep enough
for even a full width motherboard so anything but the
oddball Intel BTX boards will work fine in it... You'll
just need to replace the PSU, preferribly something rated
for a minimum of 400W in a good name-brand rated for minimum
of 18A on 12V rail, or more with a decent video card
installed and/or more than a couple drives. In other words,
ideally the PSU would match the expansion capabilities of
the case including # of drive bays that could have drives,
and supply >= 24A of 12V power.

 

[Jack Bruss]

Are you wedded to AMD or is Intel a possibility? The Intel Core 2 Duo's
are very competitively priced against AMD chips but appear to give more
bang for the buck. From a review here:
<http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2802&p=12>

The processor landscape has been changed once more thanks to AMD's
extremely aggressive price cuts. The Core 2 Duo E6300 is a better
performer than the X2 3800+ but is also more expensive, thankfully
for the E6300's sake it is also faster than the 4200+ and the 4600+
in some benchmarks. Overall the E6300 is a better buy, but at stock
speeds the advantage isn't nearly as great as the faster Core 2 parts.
In many benchmarks the X2 4200+ isn't that far off the E6300's
performance, sometimes even outperforming it at virtually the same price.
Overclocking changes everything though, as our 2.592GHz E6300 ended up
faster than AMD's FX-62 in almost every single benchmark. If you're not
an overclocker, then the Athlon 64 X2 4200+ looks to be a competitive
alternative to the Core 2 E6300.

.....

The E6300 and E6400 can easily overclock to E6700 and Core 2 Extreme X6800
levels, though the smaller cache does limit performance a bit. That being
said, our overclocked E6300 was able to equal and in all cases but one
outperform AMD's Athlon 64 FX-62. In fact, in quite a few benchmarks, the
overclocked E6300 is essentially out of reach of anything AMD can offer
with their current K8 designs. At $183, the value here is tremendous, and
if you're willing to overclock the benefits don't get any clearer than
that.

-----------

I had been looking at going with an AMD after my current Intel 2.8Ghz HT
craps out, but now I've got to give some serious thought to a Core 2 Duo,
probably the E6400. Granted I've never built an AMD box before so I can't
really comment, but the two lower-end Core Duo's are looking mighty
tasty...

Well, I am not an overclocker. I lean toward AMD just because the prices
seem better. For example, some recent Newegg prices: Athlon 64 4000 - $99
OE, 64x2 3800 $142 OE, Core Duo E6400 $218 retail, E6600 $310 retail. A guy
can go nuts just trying to compare performance vs price for all these, but
I'll read the reviews you suggest above. But I'll probably end up sticking
with AMD.

 

[Jack Bruss]

Any comments on the following setup? All prices are Newegg, some after mail
in rebates.
Case - Raidmax Sagittia mid tower w/ 450 Watt power supply - $79
Mb - Asus M2N SLI Deluxe socket AM2 $142
CPU - Athlon 64x2 3800+ - $142
Memory - Corsair 1G DDR2 - $103 (What's the diff between PC 4200 and PC
5300?)
Monitor - Samsung 19" 941BW - $190
Video - use onboard, buy card later if needed? Does this work?
Hard drive - use existing
CD/DVD - $30 Liteon
Adds up to about $686 (just under $500 w/o monitor)

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Nigel Brooks]

Are you wedded to AMD or is Intel a possibility? The Intel Core 2 Duo's
are very competitively priced against AMD chips but appear to give more
bang for the buck. From a review here:
<http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2802&p=12>

The processor landscape has been changed once more thanks to AMD's
extremely aggressive price cuts. The Core 2 Duo E6300 is a better
performer than the X2 3800+ but is also more expensive, thankfully
for the E6300's sake it is also faster than the 4200+ and the 4600+
in some benchmarks. Overall the E6300 is a better buy, but at stock
speeds the advantage isn't nearly as great as the faster Core 2 parts.
In many benchmarks the X2 4200+ isn't that far off the E6300's
performance, sometimes even outperforming it at virtually the same price.
Overclocking changes everything though, as our 2.592GHz E6300 ended up
faster than AMD's FX-62 in almost every single benchmark. If you're not
an overclocker, then the Athlon 64 X2 4200+ looks to be a competitive
alternative to the Core 2 E6300.

.....

The E6300 and E6400 can easily overclock to E6700 and Core 2 Extreme X6800
levels, though the smaller cache does limit performance a bit. That being
said, our overclocked E6300 was able to equal and in all cases but one
outperform AMD's Athlon 64 FX-62. In fact, in quite a few benchmarks, the
overclocked E6300 is essentially out of reach of anything AMD can offer
with their current K8 designs. At $183, the value here is tremendous, and
if you're willing to overclock the benefits don't get any clearer than
that.

-----------

I had been looking at going with an AMD after my current Intel 2.8Ghz HT
craps out, but now I've got to give some serious thought to a Core 2 Duo,
probably the E6400. Granted I've never built an AMD box before so I can't
really comment, but the two lower-end Core Duo's are looking mighty
tasty...

No - I'm not stalking you.

It just so happens that I built a computer a month ago.

Core 2Duo - 2.4
ASUS MB
3 gigs of ram
Nvidia 7850 graphics board with 1 gig of ram
SATA - 300 gig drive
SATA - DVD

Hold on to your socks - zoooooooooooooooooooooooooom!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Mike T.]

Any comments on the following setup? All prices are Newegg, some after
mail in rebates.
Case - Raidmax Sagittia mid tower w/ 450 Watt power supply - $79

Power supply is crap. You are asking for trouble. Try the following with
the same case (throw the original PSU away), or find a cheaper case with or
without power supply.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817709002

Mb - Asus M2N SLI Deluxe socket AM2 $142

I'm not big on asus (I'll be kind) but at least it's an nvidia chipset, so
it shouldn't be too evil.

CPU - Athlon 64x2 3800+ - $142

Great choice, great price

Memory - Corsair 1G DDR2 - $103 (What's the diff between PC 4200 and PC
5300?)

5300 is higher clock speed. But 6400 would be a better match for the
mainboard you chose. I'd suggest the following, even though it's a little
more money.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820227165

Monitor - Samsung 19" 941BW - $190

You realize that's a widescreen monitor, right? It's going to have a
smaller viewing area than a 4:3 monitor of 19". Unless you plan to watch a
lot of DVD movies on this system, you'd be better off with something like
the following:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16824009083
Similar quality, same price, larger monitor (more viewable area)

Video - use onboard, buy card later if needed? Does this work?

It would if your mainboard had onboard video, but it would be a funky beast
that was SLI capable AND had onboard video.

Hard drive - use existing
CD/DVD - $30 Liteon

I assume that's a DVD burner, right?

Adds up to about $686 (just under $500 w/o monitor)

I'm afraid it's gonna be more than that if you want to use it (need a video
card). The following looks like a good starter card...good performance,
great brand, good price, SLI ready (so you can add another later, if you
want to):
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814130073

 

[Jack Bruss]

Power supply is crap. You are asking for trouble. Try the following with
the same case (throw the original PSU away), or find a cheaper case with
or without power supply.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817709002


I'm not big on asus (I'll be kind) but at least it's an nvidia chipset, so
it shouldn't be too evil.


Great choice, great price


5300 is higher clock speed. But 6400 would be a better match for the
mainboard you chose. I'd suggest the following, even though it's a little
more money.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820227165

You realize that's a widescreen monitor, right? It's going to have a
smaller viewing area than a 4:3 monitor of 19". Unless you plan to watch
a lot of DVD movies on this system, you'd be better off with something
like the following:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16824009083
Similar quality, same price, larger monitor (more viewable area)


It would if your mainboard had onboard video, but it would be a funky
beast that was SLI capable AND had onboard video.


I assume that's a DVD burner, right?


I'm afraid it's gonna be more than that if you want to use it (need a
video card). The following looks like a good starter card...good
performance, great brand, good price, SLI ready (so you can add another
later, if you want to):
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814130073

Ok - How about this? I'm still thinking of using onboard video, because it
must be better than that of my old Ti-4200, right? That's been good enough
for me up to now. If I don't like, then I can add a card later. Now I come
out at $700 including monitor, which I want but don't need.

Power supply - Sunbeam NUUO SUNNU450-US-BK ATX12V/ EPS12V 450W Power Supply
100-120V CE, UL (CUL), TUV, CB, FCC, FIMKO, SEMKO, DEMKO, NEMKO - Retail $50
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817709002

Case - COOLER MASTER Centurion 5 CAC-T05-UB Black /Blue Aluminum Bezel ,
SECC Chassis ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail $50
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811119047

Mb - ASUS M2N-MX Socket AM2 NVIDIA GeForce 6100 Micro ATX AMD Motherboard -
Retail $76 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813131040

CPU - AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+ 2.0GHz Socket AM2 Processor - Retail $148
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819103735

Memory - OCZ 1GB 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Desktop Memory -
Retail $130 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820227165

Monitor - AG Neovo F-419 BLACK Black 19" 4ms DVI LCD Monitor 300 cd/m2
700:1 - Retail $216
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16824163129

CD/DVD - LITE-ON 18X DVD±R Burner Black IDE Model LH-18A1P-185 - OEM $30
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16827106042

Video - Use the onboard? Add card later if neccessary.

Hard drive - Use my existing

 

[Dave]

Ok - How about this? I'm still thinking of using onboard video, because
it must be better than that of my old Ti-4200, right? That's been good
enough for me up to now. If I don't like, then I can add a card later.
Now I come out at $700 including monitor, which I want but don't need.

Power supply - Sunbeam NUUO SUNNU450-US-BK ATX12V/ EPS12V 450W Power
Supply 100-120V CE, UL (CUL), TUV, CB, FCC, FIMKO, SEMKO, DEMKO, NEMKO -
Retail $50 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817709002

Case - COOLER MASTER Centurion 5 CAC-T05-UB Black /Blue Aluminum Bezel ,
SECC Chassis ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail $50
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811119047

Mb - ASUS M2N-MX Socket AM2 NVIDIA GeForce 6100 Micro ATX AMD
Motherboard - Retail $76
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813131040

CPU - AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+ 2.0GHz Socket AM2 Processor - Retail $148
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819103735

Memory - OCZ 1GB 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Desktop Memory -
Retail $130
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820227165

Monitor - AG Neovo F-419 BLACK Black 19" 4ms DVI LCD Monitor 300 cd/m2
700:1 - Retail $216
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16824163129

CD/DVD - LITE-ON 18X DVD±R Burner Black IDE Model LH-18A1P-185 - OEM $30
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16827106042

Video - Use the onboard? Add card later if neccessary.

Hard drive - Use my existing

That looks awesome, I wouldn't change a thing. Yes, that onboard video
should work great, for quite a while. I'm typing this on a Ag Neovo F-419,
very sharp monitor. Everything else looks great. I think you'll be very
happy with it. It should run Vista fine also, if you want to. -Dave

 

[kony]

Ok - How about this? I'm still thinking of using onboard video, because it
must be better than that of my old Ti-4200, right?

No, your TI4200 is several times faster than the best
integrated video, and better overall performance even at
non-video-intensive apps due to relieving the system of that
video memory bandwidth.

However, the other important factor is "IF" you want to
eventually run the Aeroglass interface on Vista. TI4200
won't support that, even though a much slower new(er) card
would due to having DX9 support.

That's been good enough
for me up to now. If I don't like, then I can add a card later.

That's a fine option then, get the card later if needed.

 

[Dave]

No, your TI4200 is several times faster than the best
integrated video, and better overall performance even at
non-video-intensive apps due to relieving the system of that
video memory bandwidth.

You haven't kept up with the times, kony. I generally would agree that
built-in video sucks. But this build is spec'd for a Geforce 6100 mainboard
now. If anyone were to benchmark it, I predict the onboard video of -this-
system would be at least 3 times faster than the TI4200. The TI4200 was
great in it's day, but that's quite an old card now in terms of hardware
obsolescence.

Again I can't benchmark the two together, and I'd be surprised if anyone has
done a direct comparison between the two (benchmark wise), but I'd guess the
Geforce 6100 integrated video will kick the crap out of a TI4200 video card,
and the Geforce 6100 would probably run Vista Aero just fine, also. -Dave

 

[Jack Bruss]

No, your TI4200 is several times faster than the best
integrated video, and better overall performance even at
non-video-intensive apps due to relieving the system of that
video memory bandwidth.

However, the other important factor is "IF" you want to
eventually run the Aeroglass interface on Vista. TI4200
won't support that, even though a much slower new(er) card
would due to having DX9 support.



That's a fine option then, get the card later if needed.

Any comments on the Motherboard (ASUS M2N-MX Socket AM2 NVIDIA GeForce 6100
Micro ATX AMD )? It's only half the price of the previous one I had
selected, Asus M2N SLI Deluxe socket AM2, and yet it has onboard video where
the M2N does not.

 

[dMn]

You haven't kept up with the times, kony. I generally would agree that
built-in video sucks. But this build is spec'd for a Geforce 6100 mainboard
now. If anyone were to benchmark it, I predict the onboard video of -this-
system would be at least 3 times faster than the TI4200. The TI4200 was
great in it's day, but that's quite an old card now in terms of hardware
obsolescence.

Again I can't benchmark the two together, and I'd be surprised if anyone has
done a direct comparison between the two (benchmark wise), but I'd guess the
Geforce 6100 integrated video will kick the crap out of a TI4200 video card,
and the Geforce 6100 would probably run Vista Aero just fine, also. -Dave

I've been following this thread with interest as I'm starting the
research to build/upgrade a system this spring. I'm certainly looking to
take advantage of my existing stuff where it makes sense. But jbruss's
reply caught me off guard, I have to ask how is it possible that an AGP
4x card with 255 Mhz GPU and 128MB of 444Mhz DDR memory will outperform
an integrated PCI Express 425 Mhz GPU with 128MB of 800Mhz DDR2 memory.
I see a wider and faster data path, faster read and write access to
memory, and faster processing.

I can appreciate optimizations helping to level to comparison some, but
what could they possibly screw up to make the integrated card so much
slower then expected? Does anyone have any comparison data to help me
see the error of my ways?

dMn

 

[kony]

You haven't kept up with the times, kony. I generally would agree that
built-in video sucks. But this build is spec'd for a Geforce 6100 mainboard
now. If anyone were to benchmark it, I predict the onboard video of -this-
system would be at least 3 times faster than the TI4200. The TI4200 was
great in it's day, but that's quite an old card now in terms of hardware
obsolescence.

Wrong.
TI4200 is far faster than 6100 integrated.

There are two reasons.
1) Not enough silicon in the nVidia northbridge dedicated
to video processing.
2) Video memory bandwidth lower than that dedicated to it
on a video card.

Not even a close race, integrated video of DX9 era is
theoretically able to support newer feature sets but when it
comes down to what it can actually do at acceptible speeds,
there's no real gain except in special circumstances (like
DX9 with Vista).

Again I can't benchmark the two together, and I'd be surprised if anyone has
done a direct comparison between the two (benchmark wise), but I'd guess the
Geforce 6100 integrated video will kick the crap out of a TI4200 video card,
and the Geforce 6100 would probably run Vista Aero just fine, also. -Dave

You really ought to stop guessing. Newer is not always
better, when speaking of lowest end new parts.

 

[kony]

Any comments on the Motherboard (ASUS M2N-MX Socket AM2 NVIDIA GeForce 6100
Micro ATX AMD )? It's only half the price of the previous one I had
selected, Asus M2N SLI Deluxe socket AM2, and yet it has onboard video where
the M2N does not.

I like Asus boards, think either is a good choice in their
respective niche. If this is your main use system, and used
for more than mundane tasks for a longer period of time then
I'd get a video card and the full sized M2N board, or the
non-SLI equivalent. Then again, part of my criteria is
whether a board will allow more PCI cards while a video card
with a double width heatsink is installed (or allowing an
empty slot for better cooling even if a single width
heatsink as on some passively cooled video cards), partially
because I have several acceptible PCI cards from the past
that I can use and would prefer for certain functions like
audio, or video capture/tuning.

I can't know if you'd have these cards or uses, or would
just run all the intgrated features for the life of the
system. If you can make do with the integrated features,
the mATX board could be a good cost savings. In the past
sometimes I've bought boards with integrated video even if I
used a video card, so later when the board was retired to a
secondary use, the integrated video allowed running without
dedicating another card which for some uses was just extra
power, heat, fan noise, without any gain for the particular
uses. Again I can't know if you would find this useful or
not, everyone has their own goals. In the long run I think
you'd appreciate having the full ATX board and video card
but whether it's worth the extra cost of the card, only you
can decide.

 

[kony]

I've been following this thread with interest as I'm starting the
research to build/upgrade a system this spring. I'm certainly looking to
take advantage of my existing stuff where it makes sense. But jbruss's
reply caught me off guard, I have to ask how is it possible that an AGP
4x card with 255 Mhz GPU and 128MB of 444Mhz DDR memory will outperform
an integrated PCI Express 425 Mhz GPU with 128MB of 800Mhz DDR2 memory.
I see a wider and faster data path, faster read and write access to
memory, and faster processing.

I can appreciate optimizations helping to level to comparison some, but
what could they possibly screw up to make the integrated card so much
slower then expected? Does anyone have any comparison data to help me
see the error of my ways?

They're not "slower than expected", you ignored all factors.
Video card technology is too complex for a usenet post,
pipes and shaders and dedicated busses and latency and
amount of devoted special-purpose silicon, a video card is a
purpose specific device, designed from ground up to do what
it does.

If anything, video card benchmarks aren't hard to find. The
only time you might find a 6100 gaining ground is if newer
DirectX features are enabled and they bring both cards to
their knees. Run a benchmark that does acceptibly on both
and you can make a better comparison, perhaps 3Dmark 2001.
Geforce 6100 might score around 6000 (this is only a
guesstimation, might vary a few dozen %). In one of the
newer (but last) generation Athlon64 systems (as with
Geforce 6100), even a Geforce 3 would easily exceed 6000
3Dmarks.