Networks : Workgroups and Domains. How Do I Use Them?

[W. eWatson]

I have three PCs. Call them D, A and M. M was a W2K machine until I just
installed XP Pro. D is my desktop in the den, and most used. All three
could reach one another via my LAN prior to M becoming XP, but now M is
not getting the idea it's on the LAN. I'm sure I've configured its
ethernet adapter properly. I think the problem is from my lack of
understanding whether these machines are together as a workgroup or
domain. I may have just been lucky with the previous LAN that had M (W2K
then). The only good source I have for making a LAN has been my QUE
Using MS Windows 2000 Pro book. It's been getting me closer to a solution.

Right now I have all three PCs set with a workgroup called AXY. Somehow
I have a mixture of three different domain names. I'm running as a
business network. If I want to configure solely for a workgroup network,
then I would think I do not need to provide a domain name, and vice
versa for a domain network. How would the network know which type of
network I'm using, domain or workgroup?

Perhaps someone could provide an example of how the computer, domain,
and workgroup names should be used for my situation, that is, wanting to
use a workgroup network?

 

[Lem]

I have three PCs. Call them D, A and M. M was a W2K machine until I just
installed XP Pro. D is my desktop in the den, and most used. All three
could reach one another via my LAN prior to M becoming XP, but now M is
not getting the idea it's on the LAN. I'm sure I've configured its
ethernet adapter properly. I think the problem is from my lack of
understanding whether these machines are together as a workgroup or
domain. I may have just been lucky with the previous LAN that had M (W2K
then). The only good source I have for making a LAN has been my QUE
Using MS Windows 2000 Pro book. It's been getting me closer to a solution.

Right now I have all three PCs set with a workgroup called AXY. Somehow
I have a mixture of three different domain names. I'm running as a
business network. If I want to configure solely for a workgroup network,
then I would think I do not need to provide a domain name, and vice
versa for a domain network. How would the network know which type of
network I'm using, domain or workgroup?

Perhaps someone could provide an example of how the computer, domain,
and workgroup names should be used for my situation, that is, wanting to
use a workgroup network?

What do you mean when you say, "I'm running as a business network"?

Usually, "a business network" means that you have one computer that has
a server operating system (which does *not* include Windows XP). It's
not clear whether any of your computers is running Windows 2000
*Server.* If not, you don't have a "domain" and shouldn't be using
domain names.

If all of your computers are now using Windows XP, you should put them
all in the same "workgroup." Doing so is supposed to make them all
appear in one place in "My Network Places."

 

[W. eWatson]

What do you mean when you say, "I'm running as a business network"?

Usually, "a business network" means that you have one computer that has
a server operating system (which does *not* include Windows XP). It's
not clear whether any of your computers is running Windows 2000
*Server.* If not, you don't have a "domain" and shouldn't be using
domain names.

If all of your computers are now using Windows XP, you should put them
all in the same "workgroup." Doing so is supposed to make them all
appear in one place in "My Network Places."

I have no server. None of my computers runs W2K. I probably confused
myself with the bizarre set up before I converted the W2K machine to XP,
which had a mixture of domain and workgroup names but yet worked.

If one selects Properties off My Computer, a dialog appears. I select
the Computer Name tab, and then Network ID. A wizard appears. The first
question is whether you are on a business network. Apparently, I should
just say it is not. I just did that and the wizard goes to Finish. I'm
now rebooting and will continue here after that. Whoops, I almost forgot
to change the Workgroup name from WORKGTROUP to AXY.

OK, I'm back, and it must be now that this computer, Den, is set for
workgroups. If I use My Network Places, I see the other two computers,
and can access their C-drives without giving a password. It's quite
possible, that I set them up with a domain. Off I go to look, and set
them as workgroup networks, if necessary.

BTW, what would I look at them to tell what type of network they are on?

OK, I've set them all to workgroup, and have workgroup set to AXY on all
three. That extra step of having to come back after the wizard to set
the Workgroup to AZY is probably a source of difficulty. If forgotten,
the workgroup becomes WORKGROUP.

Both the A(stro) and D(en) machine can now see M(et), but, again, M
cannot see either A or D. I just checked to see if A can see D. It can,
but I have to sign on as admin, which is what I want. M is just blind to
the other two computers.

 

[Lem]

I have no server. None of my computers runs W2K. I probably confused
myself with the bizarre set up before I converted the W2K machine to XP,
which had a mixture of domain and workgroup names but yet worked.

If one selects Properties off My Computer, a dialog appears. I select
the Computer Name tab, and then Network ID. A wizard appears. The first
question is whether you are on a business network. Apparently, I should
just say it is not. I just did that and the wizard goes to Finish. I'm
now rebooting and will continue here after that. Whoops, I almost forgot
to change the Workgroup name from WORKGTROUP to AXY.

OK, I'm back, and it must be now that this computer, Den, is set for
workgroups. If I use My Network Places, I see the other two computers,
and can access their C-drives without giving a password. It's quite
possible, that I set them up with a domain. Off I go to look, and set
them as workgroup networks, if necessary.

BTW, what would I look at them to tell what type of network they are on?

OK, I've set them all to workgroup, and have workgroup set to AXY on all
three. That extra step of having to come back after the wizard to set
the Workgroup to AZY is probably a source of difficulty. If forgotten,
the workgroup becomes WORKGROUP.

Both the A(stro) and D(en) machine can now see M(et), but, again, M
cannot see either A or D. I just checked to see if A can see D. It can,
but I have to sign on as admin, which is what I want. M is just blind to
the other two computers.

It's not clear where you're looking to "see" other computers. If it's
in My Network Places, it may take some time for a network resource to
show up. You can try clicking View > Refresh to speed up the process.

There are a number of things to check.

First and most critical, all of the computers must be on the same
subnet. In a typical home network, the subnet mask will be 255.255.255.0
on all computers. In that case, the first three octets of the IP address
of each computer must be identical, e.g., 192.168.1.x. To check, open a
Command Prompt window on each computer and type ipconfig then press Enter.

Once you have confirmed that A, D, and M are all on the same subnet, try
the ping command, both by name and by IP address from each computer to
each of the other two.

For example, if you determined that Astro has IP address 192.168.1.101
and Met has IP address 192.168.1.105, open a Command Prompt window on
Astro and type:
ping Met [Enter]
ping 192.168.1.105 [Enter]
then open a Command Prompt window on Met and type:
ping Astro [Enter]
ping 192.168.1.101 [Enter]

How you access shares on each computer depends, in part, on whether the
computer is running XP Pro or XP Home. For XP Pro, it depends on
whether you have Simple File Sharing enabled or disabled. The following
is canned network advice from MVP Malke. Not all of it may apply to your
situation, so just take the parts that do:

<Quote>
File/printer sharing

Excellent, thorough, yet easy to understand article about File/Printer
Sharing in Vista. Includes details about sharing printers as well as
files and folders:

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb727037.aspx

For XP, start by running the Network Setup Wizard on all machines (see
caveat in Item A below).

Problems sharing files between computers on a network are generally
caused by 1) a misconfigured firewall or overlooked firewall (including
a stateful firewall in a VPN); or 2) inadvertently running two firewalls
such as the built-in Windows Firewall and a third-party firewall; and/or
3) not having identical user accounts and passwords on all Workgroup
machines; 4) trying to create shares where the operating system does not
permit it.

A. Configure firewalls on all machines to allow the Local Area Network
(LAN) traffic as trusted. With Windows Firewall, this means allowing
File/Printer Sharing on the Exceptions tab. Normally running the Network
Setup Wizard on XP will take care of this for those machines.The only
"gotcha" is that this will turn on the XPSP2 Windows Firewall. If you
aren't running a third-party firewall or have an antivirus with
"Internet Worm Protection" (like Norton 2006/07) which acts as a
firewall, then you're fine. With third-party firewalls, I usually
configure the LAN allowance with an IP range. Ex. would be
192.168.1.0-192.168.1.254. Obviously you would substitute your correct
subnet. Do not run more than one firewall. DO NOT TURN OFF FIREWALLS;
CONFIGURE THEM CORRECTLY.

B. For ease of organization, put all computers in the same Workgroup.
This is done from the System applet in Control Panel, Computer Name tab.

C. Create matching user accounts and passwords on all machines. You do
not need to be logged into the same account on all machines and the
passwords assigned to each user account can be different; the
accounts/passwords just need to exist and match on all machines. DO NOT
NEGLECT TO CREATE PASSWORDS, EVEN IF ONLY SIMPLE ONES. If you wish a
machine to boot directly to the Desktop (into one particular user's
account) for convenience, you can do this. The instructions at this link
work for both XP and Vista:

Configure Windows to Automatically Login (MVP Ramesh) -
http://windowsxp.mvps.org/Autologon.htm

D. If one or more of the computers is XP Pro or Media Center, turn off
Simple File Sharing (Folder Options>View tab).

E. Create shares as desired. XP Home does not permit sharing of users'
home directories or Program Files, but you can share folders inside
those directories. A better choice is to simply use the Shared Documents
folder.
See the first link above for details about Vista sharing.

F. After you have file sharing working (and have tested this by
exchanging a file between all machines), if you want to share a printer
connected locally to one of your computers, share it out from that
machine. Then go to the printer mftr.'s website and download the latest
drivers for the correct operating system(s). Install them on the target
machine(s). The printer should be seen during the installation routine.
If it is not, install the drivers and then use the Add Printer Wizard.
In some instances, certain printers need to be installed as Local
printers but that is outside of this response.
</Quote>

 

[W. eWatson]

....snip
OK, I've set them all to workgroup, and have workgroup set to AXY on
all three. That extra step of having to come back after the wizard to
set the Workgroup to AZY is probably a source of difficulty. If
forgotten, the workgroup becomes WORKGROUP.

Both the A(stro) and D(en) machine can now see M(et), but, again, M
cannot see either A or D. I just checked to see if A can see D. It
can, but I have to sign on as admin, which is what I want. M is just
blind to the other two computers.

It's not clear where you're looking to "see" other computers. If it's
in My Network Places, it may take some time for a network resource to
show up. You can try clicking View > Refresh to speed up the process.

There are a number of things to check.

First and most critical, all of the computers must be on the same
subnet. In a typical home network, the subnet mask will be 255.255.255.0
on all computers. In that case, the first three octets of the IP address
of each computer must be identical, e.g., 192.168.1.x. To check, open a
Command Prompt window on each computer and type ipconfig then press Enter.

Once you have confirmed that A, D, and M are all on the same subnet, try
the ping command, both by name and by IP address from each computer to
each of the other two.

For example, if you determined that Astro has IP address 192.168.1.101
and Met has IP address 192.168.1.105, open a Command Prompt window on
Astro and type:
ping Met [Enter]
ping 192.168.1.105 [Enter]
then open a Command Prompt window on Met and type:
ping Astro [Enter]
ping 192.168.1.101 [Enter]

How you access shares on each computer depends, in part, on whether the
computer is running XP Pro or XP Home. For XP Pro, it depends on
whether you have Simple File Sharing enabled or disabled. The following
is canned network advice from MVP Malke. Not all of it may apply to your
situation, so just take the parts that do:

<Quote>
File/printer sharing

Excellent, thorough, yet easy to understand article about File/Printer
Sharing in Vista. Includes details about sharing printers as well as
files and folders:

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb727037.aspx

For XP, start by running the Network Setup Wizard on all machines (see
caveat in Item A below).

Problems sharing files between computers on a network are generally
caused by 1) a misconfigured firewall or overlooked firewall (including
a stateful firewall in a VPN); or 2) inadvertently running two firewalls
such as the built-in Windows Firewall and a third-party firewall; and/or
3) not having identical user accounts and passwords on all Workgroup
machines; 4) trying to create shares where the operating system does not
permit it.

A. Configure firewalls on all machines to allow the Local Area Network
(LAN) traffic as trusted. With Windows Firewall, this means allowing
File/Printer Sharing on the Exceptions tab. Normally running the Network
Setup Wizard on XP will take care of this for those machines.The only
"gotcha" is that this will turn on the XPSP2 Windows Firewall. If you
aren't running a third-party firewall or have an antivirus with
"Internet Worm Protection" (like Norton 2006/07) which acts as a
firewall, then you're fine. With third-party firewalls, I usually
configure the LAN allowance with an IP range. Ex. would be
192.168.1.0-192.168.1.254. Obviously you would substitute your correct
subnet. Do not run more than one firewall. DO NOT TURN OFF FIREWALLS;
CONFIGURE THEM CORRECTLY.

B. For ease of organization, put all computers in the same Workgroup.
This is done from the System applet in Control Panel, Computer Name tab.

C. Create matching user accounts and passwords on all machines. You do
not need to be logged into the same account on all machines and the
passwords assigned to each user account can be different; the
accounts/passwords just need to exist and match on all machines. DO NOT
NEGLECT TO CREATE PASSWORDS, EVEN IF ONLY SIMPLE ONES. If you wish a
machine to boot directly to the Desktop (into one particular user's
account) for convenience, you can do this. The instructions at this link
work for both XP and Vista:

Configure Windows to Automatically Login (MVP Ramesh) -
http://windowsxp.mvps.org/Autologon.htm

D. If one or more of the computers is XP Pro or Media Center, turn off
Simple File Sharing (Folder Options>View tab).

E. Create shares as desired. XP Home does not permit sharing of users'
home directories or Program Files, but you can share folders inside
those directories. A better choice is to simply use the Shared Documents
folder.
See the first link above for details about Vista sharing.

F. After you have file sharing working (and have tested this by
exchanging a file between all machines), if you want to share a printer
connected locally to one of your computers, share it out from that
machine. Then go to the printer mftr.'s website and download the latest
drivers for the correct operating system(s). Install them on the target
machine(s). The printer should be seen during the installation routine.
If it is not, install the drivers and then use the Add Printer Wizard.
In some instances, certain printers need to be installed as Local
printers but that is outside of this response.
</Quote>

I'm using My Network Places to see what's connected and available.
From ipconfig:
D PC:
IP address: 192:168:1.67
Subnet mask: 255.255.255.0
Obtain an IP auto from CP Network Connection
Obtain DNS server auto

A PC:
IP Address: 192.168.1.98
Subnet mask: as above
Obtain an IP auto from CP Network Connection
Obtain DNS server auto

M PC:
IP Address: 192.168.1.64
Subnet mask: as above
Obtain an IP auto from CP Network Connection
Obtain DNS server auto

Everyone can ping all others OK

Running XP Pro

I've got to be away for 2.5 hours. Will read the sharing when I get back.

 

[W. eWatson]

Forgot to mention that under Internet Connection properties these were
checked for all three:

MS Client for MS net
File Print sharing for MS Net
Internet Properties

However, QoS appeared for Met, and was unchecked.

 

[Lem]

Lem wrote:
W. eWatson wrote:
I have three PCs. Call them D, A and M. M was a W2K machine until I ...snip
OK, I've set them all to workgroup, and have workgroup set to AXY on
all three. That extra step of having to come back after the wizard to
set the Workgroup to AZY is probably a source of difficulty. If
forgotten, the workgroup becomes WORKGROUP.

Both the A(stro) and D(en) machine can now see M(et), but, again, M
cannot see either A or D. I just checked to see if A can see D. It
can, but I have to sign on as admin, which is what I want. M is just
blind to the other two computers.

It's not clear where you're looking to "see" other computers. If it's
in My Network Places, it may take some time for a network resource to
show up. You can try clicking View > Refresh to speed up the process.

There are a number of things to check.

First and most critical, all of the computers must be on the same
subnet. In a typical home network, the subnet mask will be
255.255.255.0 on all computers. In that case, the first three octets
of the IP address of each computer must be identical, e.g.,
192.168.1.x. To check, open a Command Prompt window on each computer
and type ipconfig then press Enter.

Once you have confirmed that A, D, and M are all on the same subnet,
try the ping command, both by name and by IP address from each
computer to each of the other two.

For example, if you determined that Astro has IP address 192.168.1.101
and Met has IP address 192.168.1.105, open a Command Prompt window on
Astro and type:
ping Met [Enter]
ping 192.168.1.105 [Enter]
then open a Command Prompt window on Met and type:
ping Astro [Enter]
ping 192.168.1.101 [Enter]

How you access shares on each computer depends, in part, on whether
the computer is running XP Pro or XP Home. For XP Pro, it depends on
whether you have Simple File Sharing enabled or disabled. The
following is canned network advice from MVP Malke. Not all of it may
apply to your situation, so just take the parts that do:

<Quote>
File/printer sharing

Excellent, thorough, yet easy to understand article about File/Printer
Sharing in Vista. Includes details about sharing printers as well as
files and folders:

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb727037.aspx

For XP, start by running the Network Setup Wizard on all machines (see
caveat in Item A below).

Problems sharing files between computers on a network are generally
caused by 1) a misconfigured firewall or overlooked firewall
(including a stateful firewall in a VPN); or 2) inadvertently running
two firewalls such as the built-in Windows Firewall and a third-party
firewall; and/or 3) not having identical user accounts and passwords
on all Workgroup machines; 4) trying to create shares where the
operating system does not permit it.

A. Configure firewalls on all machines to allow the Local Area Network
(LAN) traffic as trusted. With Windows Firewall, this means allowing
File/Printer Sharing on the Exceptions tab. Normally running the
Network Setup Wizard on XP will take care of this for those
machines.The only "gotcha" is that this will turn on the XPSP2 Windows
Firewall. If you aren't running a third-party firewall or have an
antivirus with "Internet Worm Protection" (like Norton 2006/07) which
acts as a firewall, then you're fine. With third-party firewalls, I
usually configure the LAN allowance with an IP range. Ex. would be
192.168.1.0-192.168.1.254. Obviously you would substitute your correct
subnet. Do not run more than one firewall. DO NOT TURN OFF FIREWALLS;
CONFIGURE THEM CORRECTLY.

B. For ease of organization, put all computers in the same Workgroup.
This is done from the System applet in Control Panel, Computer Name tab.

C. Create matching user accounts and passwords on all machines. You do
not need to be logged into the same account on all machines and the
passwords assigned to each user account can be different; the
accounts/passwords just need to exist and match on all machines. DO
NOT NEGLECT TO CREATE PASSWORDS, EVEN IF ONLY SIMPLE ONES. If you wish
a machine to boot directly to the Desktop (into one particular user's
account) for convenience, you can do this. The instructions at this
link work for both XP and Vista:

Configure Windows to Automatically Login (MVP Ramesh) -
http://windowsxp.mvps.org/Autologon.htm

D. If one or more of the computers is XP Pro or Media Center, turn off
Simple File Sharing (Folder Options>View tab).

E. Create shares as desired. XP Home does not permit sharing of users'
home directories or Program Files, but you can share folders inside
those directories. A better choice is to simply use the Shared
Documents folder.
See the first link above for details about Vista sharing.

F. After you have file sharing working (and have tested this by
exchanging a file between all machines), if you want to share a
printer connected locally to one of your computers, share it out from
that machine. Then go to the printer mftr.'s website and download the
latest drivers for the correct operating system(s). Install them on
the target machine(s). The printer should be seen during the
installation routine. If it is not, install the drivers and then use
the Add Printer Wizard. In some instances, certain printers need to be
installed as Local printers but that is outside of this response.
</Quote>

I'm using My Network Places to see what's connected and available.
From ipconfig:
D PC:
IP address: 192:168:1.67
Subnet mask: 255.255.255.0
Obtain an IP auto from CP Network Connection
Obtain DNS server auto

A PC:
IP Address: 192.168.1.98
Subnet mask: as above
Obtain an IP auto from CP Network Connection
Obtain DNS server auto

M PC:
IP Address: 192.168.1.64
Subnet mask: as above
Obtain an IP auto from CP Network Connection
Obtain DNS server auto

Everyone can ping all others OK

Running XP Pro

I've got to be away for 2.5 hours. Will read the sharing when I get back.

Your IP addresses look OK, if a bit strange (usually when IP addresses
are assigned by a DHCP server they are consecutive, or at least a bit
closer together than 67, 98, and 64). When you said that everyone can
ping all others OK, is that both by name as well as IP address? If so,
that part seems OK as well.

Aside from any issues with My Network Places, what happens if you try to
access a share using
\\computername\sharename
e.g., \\Astro\sharedfoldername

 

[W. eWatson]

Whoops again.
Den PC has Network monitor checked under Network Connection properties.
Forgot to send this before we had to depart.

 

[W. eWatson]

....

Your IP addresses look OK, if a bit strange (usually when IP addresses
are assigned by a DHCP server they are consecutive, or at least a bit
closer together than 67, 98, and 64). When you said that everyone can
ping all others OK, is that both by name as well as IP address? If so,
that part seems OK as well.

Aside from any issues with My Network Places, what happens if you try to
access a share using
\\computername\sharename
e.g., \\Astro\sharedfoldername

I pinged them by address. I'll give the names a shot tomorrow. Not sure
how one uses

\\computername\sharename
e.g., \\Astro\sharedfoldername

I see that notation on Den under My Network Places in the Internet
section comments. There are five items there, and they all show the
network location (last column) as the internet. Spooky. I think it's the
only PC of the three in using Network Places that shows internet in that
fashion, that is, as a an internet section.

Too bad Met and Astro are 100+ feet away from the Den, and both are 20
feet from each other.

It's possible that I created a problem of some sort on Met by sharing
the documents and printers. I think my share on its C-drive is for read
only.

At least at this point, I can get to the Met from the Den.

Maybe there's a firewall involved here somewhere.

Well, I'll read the sharing material tomorrow morning.

 

[W. eWatson]

The status here is that Astro and Den can see Met, but Met can't see
anyone else.

I got an interesting result when I tried to share both the C-drive of
Met and Astro by clicking on their Sharing and Security item from a
right-click on their drive's icon. Each showed five similar tabs:
General, Sharing, Tools, Quota and H/W, but Astro showed Autoplay as an
extra.

The Sharing tab for Met gave three bulleted items for sharing.
1. Local Sharing with a note to drag the folder to the Shared Docs
folder. Greyed out box for making folder private.

2. Network Sharing. Two check boxes: a. Share folder, and shared name
text entry, b. Allow network used to be changed by network and other users.

3. An info entry: Win firewall is configed to allow folders with network
and other users. It has a link to firewall settings. Firewall is on.

If I do the same on Astro, I get a dialog called Local Properties. The
sharing tab was not at all like that for Met. It showed items like max
shares allowed, and a checkbox for sharing. Not even close to what I saw
on Met.

Maybe some update history is behind this. Met came from an OEM version
of XP Pro, which was a new install. Possibly Astro came via an upgrade
from w2k to XP Pro. I see Astro possibly was created from a student
version, but it has all the stuff of a non-student version. Appearance
config parameter?

Astro has win security on.
Den has win eecurity on. All three on.

I don't get why Den's My Network Places shows an Internet section for
resources on the other two PCs. One has two resources. The only
advantage I can see is they show the UNC notation. The entries do not
seem to update easily. I deleted a couple that seemed out of touch. The
fact that all three show Internet connection is bothersome. I think I
can probably delete all three.