Netscape: font size

[Jack Brewster]

The only folks here who work for Microsoft usually have MSFT in their name.
The rest of us just have no lives so we like to hang out here and answer
questions.

As to whether or not FP can make a site that is completely cross browser
compatible, yes, it can. But there is a burden on the user to understand
what they are trying to do and understand their tools' capabilities and
limitations. Just because I go out and buy top of the line wood working
tools doesn't mean that I'm going to turn out the quality of work that Norm
Abrams (http://www.newyankee.com) can. It's up to me to learn how to best
use the tools to achieve my desired results.

FrontPage is a great application and I use it every day to do professional
production work. But I also have about 14 different browsers and browser
versions on my computer because no program can tell me how things are going
to look. I have to check that myself. Frequently I'll find something that
works just fine in IE, Netscape, Mozilla and Firebird/fox only to find that
Opera isn't displaying as expected. Is that Microsoft/FrontPage's fault?
No. Is it a bug in Opera? Maybe. But it could just as easily be a bug in
all the other browsers and Opera is the only one getting it right. Crazy, I
know, but it's the nature of the business.

If someone wants to do professional work, then they need to learn about the
medium they've chosen to work in. Websites, woodworking, needlepoint,
speech writing. It's all the same. Until someone has studied, practiced
and yes, even failed, it's unreasonable to expect them to do the job right
every time. That same truth is only magnified when applied to software.
Applications are unable to think, experience, and adapt like we can.

Sorry, that turned into a rant. I'm not normally like that but I do get
tired of people bashing on FrontPage as if they expect it, or any
application, for that matter, to be the silver bullet for web design. Maybe
someday applications will be that smart, but for now anyone building a
website really does need to spend time learning about websites and web
technologies in general, not just learning to use a program.

--
Jack Brewster - Microsoft FrontPage MVP

I'm just here trying to ask for help with Fonts. I don't mean to

criticize FP. But you say I have to know which features to use and not
use...well, when they programmed FP, maybe they should have taken that into
consideration with other browsers. This is supposed to be a program for
creating websites. But if you can't create a website that has all browser
compatibility, then what is the program good for? You can't use it for
professional websites, because businesses need to have cross-compatability.

It seems as though most or some of you may work for MS, so I understand

why you may take offense to criticism. And I really do appreciate the help
I receive on here.

But I do believe that if the creators of FP would have taken these things

into consideration, I wouldn't need help. The whole point of my using FP is
because I'm not very html literate, and don't really aspire to be. I use FP
because I don't like writing html, I like laying things out easily, the way
FP allows me to.

 

[chris leeds]

you win! that's the best answer. ;-)

 

[=?iso-8859-1?Q?Crash_Gordon=AE?=]

But Jaaaaccckkkk "my" needlepoint looks the same to everyone with 20/200 eyesight !



| The only folks here who work for Microsoft usually have MSFT in their name.
| The rest of us just have no lives so we like to hang out here and answer
| questions.
|
| As to whether or not FP can make a site that is completely cross browser
| compatible, yes, it can. But there is a burden on the user to understand
| what they are trying to do and understand their tools' capabilities and
| limitations. Just because I go out and buy top of the line wood working
| tools doesn't mean that I'm going to turn out the quality of work that Norm
| Abrams (http://www.newyankee.com) can. It's up to me to learn how to best
| use the tools to achieve my desired results.
|
| FrontPage is a great application and I use it every day to do professional
| production work. But I also have about 14 different browsers and browser
| versions on my computer because no program can tell me how things are going
| to look. I have to check that myself. Frequently I'll find something that
| works just fine in IE, Netscape, Mozilla and Firebird/fox only to find that
| Opera isn't displaying as expected. Is that Microsoft/FrontPage's fault?
| No. Is it a bug in Opera? Maybe. But it could just as easily be a bug in
| all the other browsers and Opera is the only one getting it right. Crazy, I
| know, but it's the nature of the business.
|
| If someone wants to do professional work, then they need to learn about the
| medium they've chosen to work in. Websites, woodworking, needlepoint,
| speech writing. It's all the same. Until someone has studied, practiced
| and yes, even failed, it's unreasonable to expect them to do the job right
| every time. That same truth is only magnified when applied to software.
| Applications are unable to think, experience, and adapt like we can.
|
| Sorry, that turned into a rant. I'm not normally like that but I do get
| tired of people bashing on FrontPage as if they expect it, or any
| application, for that matter, to be the silver bullet for web design. Maybe
| someday applications will be that smart, but for now anyone building a
| website really does need to spend time learning about websites and web
| technologies in general, not just learning to use a program.
|
| --
| Jack Brewster - Microsoft FrontPage MVP
|
| | > I'm just here trying to ask for help with Fonts. I don't mean to
| criticize FP. But you say I have to know which features to use and not
| use...well, when they programmed FP, maybe they should have taken that into
| consideration with other browsers. This is supposed to be a program for
| creating websites. But if you can't create a website that has all browser
| compatibility, then what is the program good for? You can't use it for
| professional websites, because businesses need to have cross-compatability.
| >
| > It seems as though most or some of you may work for MS, so I understand
| why you may take offense to criticism. And I really do appreciate the help
| I receive on here.
| >
| > But I do believe that if the creators of FP would have taken these things
| into consideration, I wouldn't need help. The whole point of my using FP is
| because I'm not very html literate, and don't really aspire to be. I use FP
| because I don't like writing html, I like laying things out easily, the way
| FP allows me to.
|
|

 

[Bob]

I'm just here trying to ask for help with Fonts. I don't mean to criticize FP. But you say I have to know which features to use and not use...well, when they programmed FP, maybe they should have taken that into consideration with other browsers. This is supposed to be a program for creating websites. But if you can't create a website that has all browser compatibility, then what is the program good for? You can't use it for professional websites, because businesses need to have cross-compatability.

It seems as though most or some of you may work for MS, so I understand why you may take offense to criticism. And I really do appreciate the help I receive on here.

But I do believe that if the creators of FP would have taken these things into consideration, I wouldn't need help. The whole point of my using FP is because I'm not very html literate, and don't really aspire to be. I use FP because I don't like writing html, I like laying things out easily, the way FP allows me to.

Fidelio:

This is a deep issue. First, you might want to disregard the opinion
of the MS-centric people here who seem to think that everyone in the
world uses the latest version of MSIE. It isn't true. Next, you might
want to be aware most browsers have issues in the area of font sizing
with one or more of the alternative methods. So, the first
consideration is "which browsers ?", the second "what method ?". Keep
in mind that the user's browser settings can have an effect on font
sizing too. Some methods allow the user to resize the fonts, others
don't.

You will need to learn CSS font sizing to explore this subject.
There are six different ways to size fonts plus normal HTML font
sizing. Believe it or not, HTML font sizing is probably the best
from a viewpoint of consistency *and* flexibility - the ability for
the user to resize the fonts on the fly.
The most consistent method is to use fixed pixel sizing in CSS.
However, this method does not allow for users to resize the fonts.
Also, there can still be inconsistency in some browsers. Check out
Netscape.com for an example of calling varying CSS style files in
order to accommodate multiple browsers and their sizing quirks.

Personally, I like fixed pixel sizing. Some of the CSS purists jump up
and start screaming when I suggest that since the user can't resize
them. However, the user can't resize graphics on the page either.
They are stuck with whatever I give them size wise for graphics - so
using fixed pixel sizing merely extends the fixed tendencies of the
web page and gives you a uniform appearance in terms of the ratio of
text size to graphic size. (The real root of the problem is that
browsers *still* don't allow you to *zoom* a web page. That would
eliminate the arguments against fixed pixel sizing).

But, learn CSS and try out the various methods. See what you like. You
definitely need to learn to use style *files* so that you can apply
your sizing across multiple pages without a lot of hassles.

FWIW, FP makes it possible to use CSS styles from style files or on
the fly. But, I think your suggestion that you should be able to
produce "professional" web sites without dealing with HTML or CSS
directly in the code, or even learning about them as code, is
incorrect. While you can produce a web site with a WYSIWYG program
like FP, it will never be professional quality unless and until you
learn to get into the code. Sorry, but that's the way it is. The
ability to deal directly with code is what "separates the men from the
boys" in web development. Don't blame it on FP, blame it on those who
suggest that it should be possible to produce technical work without
learning technical details.



Bob