.NET Framework - Service Packs ?

[- Bobb -]

I use XP SP3 on a home PC and in Add/Remove I see that I have
..NET Framework SP1
..NET Framework SP2
..NET Framework SP3
and when I choose WINDOWSUPDATE, I see a new (for me) SP3.5

They are 100+mb each.
It's just a user PC : do I need .NET Framework and all of these updates ?
I would think that if I had NO updates and installed Service Pack 3.5, it
would get me up to speed, so should I uninstall the first 3 ?

I checked online but couldn't find a simple answer to
" What are these?' and 'Do I really need them ?'
Thanks

 

[Don Phillipson]

I use XP SP3 on a home PC and in Add/Remove I see that I have
.NET Framework SP1
.NET Framework SP2
.NET Framework SP3
and when I choose WINDOWSUPDATE, I see a new (for me) SP3.5

They are 100+mb each.
It's just a user PC : do I need .NET Framework and all of these updates ?
I would think that if I had NO updates and installed Service Pack 3.5, it
would get me up to speed, so should I uninstall the first 3 ?

MS Net frameworks are non-cumulative, i.e. you must
retain all in your system. (You cannot remove v.2 after
upgrading to v.3.)

Only trial and error will tell you whether you need
this software (mainly to facilitate downloads). If you
never add apps and never download anything, you
do not need it.

 

[Mayayana]

This was covered exhaustively awhile back. There isn't
really a simple answer. .Net is Microsoft's answer to Java --
a semi-sandboxed programming system that runs software
on top of a sort of "virtual machine". As with Java, there isn't
much software that requires .Net. But there is some.

The downloads you found are not service packs. They're versions.
The versions are also semi-cumulative. V. 1 is something like
50 MB. By V. 3.5 it bloated up to more like 1/2 GB. If you
can avoid .Net that's best. You'll avoid the unnecessary bloat
and the slight security risk. If you have software that requires
..Net you need to decide whether to dump the software or
install .Net. If you need .Net you only need the latest version
for the software that requires it. If you don't know then you
probably don't need it.

.Net after v. 2 got so bloated, and so awkward to ship, that
Microsoft began designing it so that programmers could write
software for .Net v. 2 no matter what version of .Net they were
programming in. So the majority of .Net software out there
requires .Net framework v. 2.

If you install software that requires .Net -- and you don't
have it installed -- you will see a message complaining that
"mscoree.dll can't be found". That's when you need to decide
whether to uninstall the software or go download and install
the appropriate .Bloat Framework.

--
--
|I use XP SP3 on a home PC and in Add/Remove I see that I have
| .NET Framework SP1
| .NET Framework SP2
| .NET Framework SP3
| and when I choose WINDOWSUPDATE, I see a new (for me) SP3.5
|
| They are 100+mb each.
| It's just a user PC : do I need .NET Framework and all of these updates ?
| I would think that if I had NO updates and installed Service Pack 3.5, it
| would get me up to speed, so should I uninstall the first 3 ?
|
| I checked online but couldn't find a simple answer to
| " What are these?' and 'Do I really need them ?'
| Thanks
|
|

 

[Paul]

I use XP SP3 on a home PC and in Add/Remove I see that I have
.NET Framework SP1
.NET Framework SP2
.NET Framework SP3
and when I choose WINDOWSUPDATE, I see a new (for me) SP3.5

They are 100+mb each.
It's just a user PC : do I need .NET Framework and all of these updates ?
I would think that if I had NO updates and installed Service Pack 3.5, it
would get me up to speed, so should I uninstall the first 3 ?

I checked online but couldn't find a simple answer to
" What are these?' and 'Do I really need them ?'
Thanks

There is a pretty diagram on this page, that attempt to explain the
relationship between the .NET packages. But I'm not convinced it's entirely
accurate. In any case, they're not versions, more like layers in a
layer cake. And each layer can have its own patches to fix things.
It's similar to Java in some ways, but supports more than one
development language, to make programs that rely on it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.NET_Framework

You can compare it to the layer cake for the Java language, here.

http://download.oracle.com/javase/6/docs/index.html

*******

For fun, you can try the NetFX Setup Verifier. It does some checks
that your installation works in some way.

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/astebner/archive/2008/10/13/8999004.aspx (description)

You have to scroll down on this page a bit, to find it.

https://skydrive.live.com/?cid=27e6a35d1a492af7&id=27E6A35D1A492AF7!376 (downloads)

netfx_setupverifier_new Jan. 17, 2011 Aaron Stebner 244,336 bytes

Unzip that, then run the tool. The dialog box should have a pull-down
menu, with the layers the tool believes are installed (as detected in
the registry).

From the README file in that package, you get a list of the versions
available at the time the tool was released. Notice .NET 2.0 has had
two Service Packs released for it, presumably as part of helping align
it with further "layers" added to the "cake". The stack helps programmers
write more compact programs (seeing as now, all the bloat is in this stack).

..NET Framework 1.0
..NET Framework 1.1
..NET Framework 1.1 SP1
..NET Framework 2.0
..NET Framework 2.0 SP1
..NET Framework 2.0 SP2
..NET Framework 3.0
..NET Framework 3.0 SP1
..NET Framework 3.0 SP2
..NET Framework 3.5
..NET Framework 3.5 SP1
..NET Framework 4 Client
..NET Framework 4 Full

The Common Language Runtime (CLR) Version number is supposed to
control versioning, but seems to be a bust in that regard. It
still isn't precise enough, leaving users wondering if they
have enough of those packages installed or not.

*******

This is the only one I've got, and I used this package when I had an ATI
graphics card that used .NET for the control panel.

.NET Framework 2.0 SP2

Windows Update is offering me version 3.5, but I've ignored that
offer, for a long long time. I don't need it at the moment. OSes
like Windows 7, come with more of the "cake", by default.

HTH,
Paul

 

[Mayayana]

| > would get me up to speed, so should I uninstall the first 3 ?
|
| MS Net frameworks are non-cumulative, i.e. you must
| retain all in your system. (You cannot remove v.2 after
| upgrading to v.3.)
|

That's a somewhat confusing statement. They are cumulative.
One can install v. 1, then v. 2, etc. One can also skip
those and install v. 3, which includes the earlier versions.
So you can't remove v. 2 without removing v. 3 *because*
they're cumulative.

| Only trial and error will tell you whether you need
| this software (mainly to facilitate downloads). If you
| never add apps and never download anything, you
| do not need it.
|

What has .Net got to do with "facilitating downloads"?
You're just adding unnecessary confusion.

The .Net Framework is a runtime for .Net software. Period.

A runtime means support file(s) required for software to
work. If one wants to install software written in .Net then one
needs the .Net Framework (runtime) version required by that
software. Simple as that. It has nothing to do with what
one does or doesn't do with one's PC.

Same as with Java. Both .Net and Java are non-compiled
software that use a custom set of support files -- a virtual
machine or runtime or framework. The notable thing with .Net
and Java is that the runtime is like a small operating system.
..Net and Java software are not just using an extra file, like
Microsoft's C++ software. They're using their own, massive
"kit".

For the most part .Net and Java are aimed at corporate
intranet software, a usage where the massive size and
slow speed is not an issue. They're both designed for writing
quick applets that can run in a "sandbox", not needing to
access the system functions of the host OS and therefore
being relatively safe as untrusted software. But both have
been used to some extent for Windows software. For that
reason, many people won't need the .Net or Java runtime,
but some will.

 

[- Bobb -]

Thanks folks. I got the answer I was looking for:
I'll leave as-is and if I ever NEED to have Net 3.5 'the application" will
prompt me that I need a file".
So for now, I'll check the "ignore" box to hide it during WindowsUPdate.

 

[James D Andrews]

- Bobb - banged his head on his keyboard to write :

I use XP SP3 on a home PC and in Add/Remove I see that I have
.NET Framework SP1
.NET Framework SP2
.NET Framework SP3
and when I choose WINDOWSUPDATE, I see a new (for me) SP3.5

They are 100+mb each.
It's just a user PC : do I need .NET Framework and all of these updates ?
I would think that if I had NO updates and installed Service Pack 3.5, it
would get me up to speed, so should I uninstall the first 3 ?

I checked online but couldn't find a simple answer to
" What are these?' and 'Do I really need them ?'
Thanks

Simply put without getting into technical aspects, it depends on the
software you run. Many programs nowadays require at least .NET 2
Framework, and I'm seeing more and more .NET 3 and later popping up
with new software I try out.

If you ever add new software to your system and if hard drive space
isn't too much an issue, it's probably best to keep NET Frameworks up
to date. If space is an issue, you may need to check all your
software's operating system requirements - quite a task depending on
how much is installed - before removing any.

--
-There are some who call me...
Jim


"You got to be careful if you don't know where you're going, because
you might not get there."
- Yogi Berra

 

[Jo-Anne]

I use XP SP3 on a home PC and in Add/Remove I see that I have
.NET Framework SP1
.NET Framework SP2
.NET Framework SP3
and when I choose WINDOWSUPDATE, I see a new (for me) SP3.5

They are 100+mb each.
It's just a user PC : do I need .NET Framework and all of these updates ?
I would think that if I had NO updates and installed Service Pack 3.5, it
would get me up to speed, so should I uninstall the first 3 ?

I checked online but couldn't find a simple answer to
" What are these?' and 'Do I really need them ?'
Thanks

When I uninstalled .NET Framework (after a ton of trouble with updates), I
found that the program I use to check for software
updates--Filehippo--wouldn't run. It also appears that my Dell laptop wants
something from it. When I start the computer now, it tells me that
SecureUpdate.exe failed to initialize, and I have to click out of the
message. Uninstalling didn't work completely either, and I'm still
back-and-forthing with Microsoft tech support, trying to clear out
everything and start over.

I've been told that if you currently have .NET Framework on your computer,
you should install the Microsoft updates; otherwise you're susceptible to
malware. It's hard to say without removing .NET Framework whether anything
currently uses it...

Jo-Anne

 

[James D Andrews]

Jo-Anne snuck on to your hard drive to scribble:

When I uninstalled .NET Framework (after a ton of trouble with updates), I
found that the program I use to check for software
updates--Filehippo--wouldn't run. It also appears that my Dell laptop wants
something from it. When I start the computer now, it tells me that
SecureUpdate.exe failed to initialize, and I have to click out of the
message. Uninstalling didn't work completely either, and I'm still
back-and-forthing with Microsoft tech support, trying to clear out everything
and start over.

I've been told that if you currently have .NET Framework on your computer,
you should install the Microsoft updates; otherwise you're susceptible to
malware. It's hard to say without removing .NET Framework whether anything
currently uses it...

Jo-Anne

Did you reinstall the .NET Framework after the trouble?

You can get them here:

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/netframework/aa731542.aspx

--
-There are some who call me...
Jim


It's a dangerous business, going out your door. You step onto the road,
and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be
swept off to.
-Samwise Gamgee quoting Bilbo Baggins, edited

 

[micky]

I use XP SP3 on a home PC and in Add/Remove I see that I have
.NET Framework SP1
.NET Framework SP2
.NET Framework SP3
and when I choose WINDOWSUPDATE, I see a new (for me) SP3.5

They are 100+mb each.
It's just a user PC : do I need .NET Framework and all of these updates ?
I would think that if I had NO updates and installed Service Pack 3.5, it
would get me up to speed, so should I uninstall the first 3 ?

I checked online but couldn't find a simple answer to
" What are these?' and 'Do I really need them ?'
Thanks

I don't know much about this except I installed v.4 (and no prior
version) and then I got a message something like "Runtime error
because can't find runtime"

Googling, I found someone else with that error who uninstalled 4 and
installed 3.5 and that fixed his problem. I did the same and it fixed
mine. The download page insisted I install 2 KB updates, I think
they were, and I did.

 

[Jo-Anne]

When I uninstalled .NET Framework (after a ton of trouble with updates),

Did you reinstall the .NET Framework after the trouble?

You can get them here:

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/netframework/aa731542.aspx

--
-There are some who call me...
Jim


It's a dangerous business, going out your door. You step onto the road,
and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be
swept off to.
-Samwise Gamgee quoting Bilbo Baggins, edited

Not yet, Jim. After trying many other things, I'm now at the point of ...
ugh ... deleting NET Framework Setup from the Registry (I was told to also
delete .NET Framework from the Registry, but it wasn't there).

I had used the .NET Framework cleanup tool, but it didn't finish the job. I
was left with two versions of .NET Framework in Add/Remove Programs, even
though the cleaner reported nothing on my system. If deleting the Setup from
the Registry works to get rid of all the old stuff, then I'm to (1) install
the latest version of Windows Installer, (2) run the cleanup program again,
and (3) install .NET Framework 3.5 SP1 in Safe Mode. I'll report back if it
all works.

Jo-Anne

 

[Jo-Anne]

When I uninstalled .NET Framework (after a ton of trouble with updates),

I'd suggest just installing the basics (like NET Framework 1.1 and 2), and
leave it at that (and skip most, if not all, of the updates, and avoid the
hassles). That's what I've got over here. (I've avoided .NET 3.5 and
higher (all of which seem "a bit" bloated), as I don't need it. If some
app requires it, I look for an alternative app, and usually can find one)

Thank you, Bill! I wish it were that simple. So far, I haven't been able to
get rid of two of the .NET Framework versions. Although the cleanup tool
reports that nothing is there, Add/Remove Programs shows them. The plan now,
per Microsoft tech support, is to delete NET Framework Setup from the
Registry (.NET Framework itself doesn't show up there), install the latest
Microsoft Installer, run the cleanup program again, and install .NET
Framework 3.5 in Safe Mode.

Jo-Anne

 

[James D Andrews]

Jo-Anne snuck on to your hard drive to scribble:

Not yet, Jim. After trying many other things, I'm now at the point of ... ugh
... deleting NET Framework Setup from the Registry (I was told to also delete
.NET Framework from the Registry, but it wasn't there).

I had used the .NET Framework cleanup tool, but it didn't finish the job. I
was left with two versions of .NET Framework in Add/Remove Programs, even
though the cleaner reported nothing on my system. If deleting the Setup from
the Registry works to get rid of all the old stuff, then I'm to (1) install
the latest version of Windows Installer, (2) run the cleanup program again,
and (3) install .NET Framework 3.5 SP1 in Safe Mode. I'll report back if it
all works.

Jo-Anne

Hope all goes well.

Have you tried using Revo Uninstaller in place of Add/Remove Programs
before?

It's a rather simple and for the most part safe way to remove programs
and delete associated registry entries and leftover files (like all the
empty folders some programs leave behind). It also has a couple other
cleanup functions that are useful.

You just have to make sure on the associated entries you're not
deleting other stuff that uses the same files.

It doesn't clean up "already removed" programs, though.

If you want it:
http://www.freewarefiles.com/Revo-Uninstaller_program_32751.html

--
-There are some who call me...
Jim


"Distrust any enterprise that requires new clothes."
- Henry David Thoreau (1817-1862)

 

[Jo-Anne]

Jo-Anne snuck on to your hard drive to scribble:

Hope all goes well.

Have you tried using Revo Uninstaller in place of Add/Remove Programs
before?

It's a rather simple and for the most part safe way to remove programs and
delete associated registry entries and leftover files (like all the empty
folders some programs leave behind). It also has a couple other cleanup
functions that are useful.

You just have to make sure on the associated entries you're not deleting
other stuff that uses the same files.

It doesn't clean up "already removed" programs, though.

If you want it:
http://www.freewarefiles.com/Revo-Uninstaller_program_32751.html

--
-There are some who call me...
Jim


"Distrust any enterprise that requires new clothes."
- Henry David Thoreau (1817-1862)

Thank you, Jim! No, I haven't used Revo-Uninstaller, although I've heard
good things about it. I finally did remove the .NET Framework and NET
Framework Setup keys from the Registry. I also ran once again the .NET
Framework cleanup tool. And I still show two versions of .NET Framework in
Add/Remove Programs. I've reported this to the Microsoft tech person, and
I'm waiting to hear what to do next...

Jo-Anne

 

[Jo-Anne]

Or possibly consider using "Revo Uninstaller" instead (to get rid of .NET
Framework leftovers), as mentioned by James Andrews, as it can find things
that may not show up in Add/Remove. I've found it handy for that on
occasion.

Maybe I should try that. It's so weird, though. Tonight I removed the .NET
Framework and NET Framework Setup keys from the Registry (it turns out the
former really was there; I hadn't seen it at first) and reran the .NET
Framework cleanup tool--which you'd think would do the trick. But I still
show two versions of .NET Framework in Add/Remove Programs. I've reported
back to the Microsoft tech person.

Jo-Anne

 

[James D Andrews]

Jo-Anne embroidered on the monitor :

Thank you, Jim! No, I haven't used Revo-Uninstaller, although I've heard good
things about it. I finally did remove the .NET Framework and NET Framework
Setup keys from the Registry. I also ran once again the .NET Framework
cleanup tool. And I still show two versions of .NET Framework in Add/Remove
Programs. I've reported this to the Microsoft tech person, and I'm waiting to
hear what to do next...

Jo-Anne

Hmmm. Odd that it's gone, but still showing up. I know not only Revo
but some other uninstall programs have a "Remove Entry" feature for
things that are stuck. If you're MS Tech support doesn't give you a
good answer, that may be the ticket.

--
-There are some who call me...
Jim


"What do you mean?" he said. "Do you wish me a good morning, or mean
that it is a good morning whether I want it or not; or that you feel
good this morning; or that it is a morning to be good on?"
-Gandalf, after Bilbo Baggins says "Good Morning"

 

[Motor T]

Thank you, Jim! No, I haven't used Revo-Uninstaller, although I've heard
good things about it. I finally did remove the .NET Framework and NET
Framework Setup keys from the Registry. I also ran once again the .NET
Framework cleanup tool. And I still show two versions of .NET Framework in
Add/Remove Programs. I've reported this to the Microsoft tech person, and
I'm waiting to hear what to do next...

Jo-Anne

To manually remove entries from add/remove programs:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/314481

 

[Jo-Anne]

Jo-Anne embroidered on the monitor :

Hmmm. Odd that it's gone, but still showing up. I know not only Revo but
some other uninstall programs have a "Remove Entry" feature for things
that are stuck. If you're MS Tech support doesn't give you a good answer,
that may be the ticket.

--
-There are some who call me...
Jim


"What do you mean?" he said. "Do you wish me a good morning, or mean that
it is a good morning whether I want it or not; or that you feel good this
morning; or that it is a morning to be good on?"
-Gandalf, after Bilbo Baggins says "Good Morning"

Thank you, Jim! I've emailed the tech support person again with the
suggestion offered by Motor T. He referred me to a Microsoft article that
says to Uninstall recalcitrant product keys from the Registry. I had simply
deleted them. I've asked the tech support person to let me know if I should
restore what I deleted and try uninstalling instead.

Jo-Anne

 

[Jo-Anne]

To manually remove entries from add/remove programs:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/314481
--

Thank you, Ed! This looks promising. Yesterday I deleted the Registry keys;
but it looks like I should have uninstalled them instead. Just to make sure,
I've asked the tech support person. If she doesn't respond soon, however,
I'll restore what I deleted and try uninstalling, as the article indicates.

Jo-Anne

 

[- Bobb -]

Thank you, Jim! No, I haven't used Revo-Uninstaller, although I've heard
good things about it. I finally did remove the .NET Framework and NET
Framework Setup keys from the Registry. I also ran once again the .NET
Framework cleanup tool. And I still show two versions of .NET Framework in
Add/Remove Programs. I've reported this to the Microsoft tech person, and
I'm waiting to hear what to do next...

Jo-Anne