need to get XP installer disc(s) will my key code work?

[BillW50]

In

Using a windows Firmware updater has been 100% successful, especially
in the case of Dell, as it makes sure that the BIOS update is correct
for that plaform and will ONLY perform the update if conditions are
right (for example notebook is not on battery power).

Boot from DOS and running a BAT file that runs a Flash Utility
updater which uploads a BIN or ROM file BIOS image has a greater
propensity of failure.

Yes that is the way I feel about it as well. But I also have flashed
using both methods at least a few dozen times and I can't recall a
single failure. But if I had a choice, I would free better with a
Windows flasher utility myself.

Back before flashable BIOS, I used EPROMs to burn my own ROMs. In these
cases, no big deal if something went wrong since they were not in the
computer anyway at the time. And I believe a small percentage (less than
10% I believe of my stock) of them would fail to verify correctly. No
loss, just toss them out and grab another one.

The ones that were complaining about not trusting the Windows flasher
were mostly on the eeeuser forum. I didn't have any problems with it,
but there could have been a buggy version of it that I didn't have.

 

[BillW50]

In

One more thing maybe will find an old HD in the closet instead of
useing the say to noodle with. If I want to install XP pro SP3 and say
a internet browser say firefox and maybe just word to use for a week
or so what size hard drive would be big enough I think I have a 4 GB
or maybe a 6 GB would that be large enough to give my windows install
try a go?

Oh I don't know if even Windows XP SP2 will install on a 4GB drive. SP3
I don't think even has a chance to fit on 4GB. 6GB might be large enough
for XP SP3 though. I would give that a shot. What does it take, like 45
minutes to find out?

 

[Paul]

Using a windows Firmware updater has been 100% successful, especially in
the case of Dell, as it makes sure that the BIOS update is correct for
that plaform and will ONLY perform the update if conditions are right
(for example notebook is not on battery power).

Boot from DOS and running a BAT file that runs a Flash Utility updater
which uploads a BIN or ROM file BIOS image has a greater propensity of
failure.

That wasn't the track record over in the Asus motherboard usenet group.
There were more failures from Windows flashing, and there would be
a freeze in the middle of a flash. Part of it can be because of the
way the flasher program is written. In the case of the Asus one, they'd
do stuff like erase the boot block, and then if the flash didn't complete,
there'd be no recovery possible. (The boot block, really should never
be erased by any program. It destroys the reason for having one,
to be erasing it all the time.)

MSDOS isn't multitasking, so it can't get distracted. That's the
advantage as far as I'm concerned. (In the article here, I see
the variants of DOS, offer some options in that regard.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DOS#Multitasking

Paul

 

[DJW]

That wasn't the track record over in the Asus motherboard usenet group.
There were more failures from Windows flashing, and there would be
a freeze in the middle of a flash. Part of it can be because of the
way the flasher program is written. In the case of the Asus one, they'd
do stuff like erase the boot block, and then if the flash didn't complete,
there'd be no recovery possible. (The boot block, really should never
be erased by any program. It destroys the reason for having one,
to be erasing it all the time.)

MSDOS isn't multitasking, so it can't get distracted. That's the
advantage as far as I'm concerned. (In the article here, I see
the variants of DOS, offer some options in that regard.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DOS#Multitasking

   Paul

Heading towards the Bois upgrade I did find a old Panasonic model
JU-257-434P floppy drive. If I replace the broken one where and will I
need to find the driver for it. A bit confused and foggy about it all.
say someone has a cleaned hard drive formatted hard drive in a
computer does the floppy not work until the OS is started to be put
on. Just where is the driver for a floppy drive reside? In Rom? on the
bios chip? On the Hard drive?

 

[BillW50]

In

That wasn't the track record over in the Asus motherboard usenet
group. There were more failures from Windows flashing, and there would
be a freeze in the middle of a flash. Part of it can be because of the
way the flasher program is written.

Yes that is the way I remember it too. Although I used both, the Asus
Windows flasher and the DOS one. And I never had a problem with either
one. And even if I did have a problem with the Windows Asus one, I would
assume you could always terminate the flasher, Windows should still be
(hopefully) functioning, and you should be able to reflash over and over
again until it get it right.

In the case of the Asus one, they'd do stuff like erase the boot
block, and then if the flash didn't complete, there'd be no recovery
possible. (The boot block, really should never be erased by any
program. It destroys the reason for having one, to be erasing it all
the time.)

Yes, but my memory was by 2008 Asus no longer written over the boot
block. And the DOS versions, I am pretty sure you can add a switch to
ignore writing over the boot block. Or was that the default and you had
to add a switch to write over the boot block? Anyway in either case, you
could do one or the other.

MSDOS isn't multitasking, so it can't get distracted. That's the
advantage as far as I'm concerned. (In the article here, I see
the variants of DOS, offer some options in that regard.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DOS#Multitasking

That article didn't mention, but I heard MS-DOS v4.01 (European versions
only)... SIDENOTE: I actually have about a hundred copies of French
versions of MS-DOS v4.01 I bought dirt cheap. I only bought them cheap
enough to erase and to use the floppies themselves. Although I only
ended up using a few of the disks and the rest are still sealed and
everything.

Anyway, the story is about these MS-DOS v4.01 European versions had
multitasking built in. My French is terrible and I couldn't make it all
the way through the DOS install. So I couldn't tell you anything about
it. MS-DOS v4 came and went so fast, there isn't much really written
about it. And this special multitasking v4.01 is virtually unknown.

This was also the time that Microsoft figured that DOS future was dead
and they were not really interested in pushing this multitasking DOS
further and all further development ended right there. Later there was
DOSShell which MS didn't really focus on and developed for too long. I
also don't know how close that was to the multitasking v4.01 or not. Or
even if they were really related in anyway.

Back to flashing under the regular DOS... I can see some problems. As if
the flash utility hung, you are now screwed. And if DOS hung, you too
are now screwed. As I haven't had much luck getting DOS back if an
application crashed. And if DOS itself crashed, well basically you are
stuck to reboot and with a failed flash, the BIOS is now worthless and
now you probably have a bricked computer.

 

[BillW50]

In

Heading towards the Bois upgrade I did find a old Panasonic model
JU-257-434P floppy drive. If I replace the broken one where and will I
need to find the driver for it. A bit confused and foggy about it all.
say someone has a cleaned hard drive formatted hard drive in a
computer does the floppy not work until the OS is started to be put
on. Just where is the driver for a floppy drive reside? In Rom? on the
bios chip? On the Hard drive?

I have no memory of ever having a need for a floppy driver for DOS or
Windows. As if the BIOS can see it, you are good to go. The only
exception is if it is connected in a nonstandard way like through the
USB port or parallel port or something. But once again, if the BIOS can
see it, you should be able to boot from it.

 

[BillW50]

In

Yes, or a CDROM.

Wait a second here. What make and model of computer are we talking
about? And the year of manufacture or about when? As some BIOS requires
no DOS, nor Windows, nor any flash utility.

In all cases that I know of, these BIOS defaults and looks on a floppy
drive looking for a BIOS image usually with an extension of ROM, BIN, or
something. I believe the floppy has to be in FAT12 format (not sure if
FAT16 is okay) and must be found in the root directory (aka folder). And
like the hotkey to get into the BIOS setup, they have a special
hotkey(s) to get into this flash mode. ALT-F1 or ALT-F2 was a popular
combination.

Now if you put the image on something other than a floppy, like CD or
flash drive. Well in this case it depends on what the BIOS will accept.
But all of them should accept a floppy to the best of my knowledge.

If you already have a DOS flash utility to do this, then it is totally
different. You need to boot DOS from a floppy, hard drive, CD, flash or
something first. Now what the flash utility will accept to read the
image from is totally dependent on the utility itself. As these
utilities access the hardware directly and doesn't really rely on what
DOS can access. Or what the BIOS can access for that matter.

 

[DJW]

In










Wait a second here. What make and model of computer are we talking
about? And the year of manufacture or about when? As some BIOS requires
no DOS, nor Windows, nor any flash utility.

In all cases that I know of, these BIOS defaults and looks on a floppy
drive looking for a BIOS image usually with an extension of ROM, BIN, or
something. I believe the floppy has to be in FAT12 format (not sure if
FAT16 is okay) and must be found in the root directory (aka folder). And
like the hotkey to get into the BIOS setup, they have a special
hotkey(s) to get into this flash mode. ALT-F1 or ALT-F2 was a popular
combination.

Now if you put the image on something other than a floppy, like CD or
flash drive. Well in this case it depends on what the BIOS will accept.
But all of them should accept a floppy to the best of my knowledge.

If you already have a DOS flash utility to do this, then it is totally
different. You need to boot DOS from a floppy, hard drive, CD, flash or
something first. Now what the flash utility will accept to read the
image from is totally dependent on the utility itself. As these
utilities access the hardware directly and doesn't really rely on what
DOS can access. Or what the BIOS can access for that matter.

Its a Dell dimension 4550
see:
http://www.dell.com/support/drivers...Formats?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&DriverId=R67246

 

[BillW50]

In

Its a Dell dimension 4550
see:
http://www.dell.com/support/drivers...Formats?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&DriverId=R67246

Oh bingo! It came originally with XP Home. And if that BIOS ULR is
correct for this model, just down the second choice (R67246.exe) and run
it under XP. No need for DOS or any need for floppies or anything.

The first choose requires a floppy and DOS.

The third choice doesn't require any DOS, just a floppy. It is indeed
possible for a BIOS to scan a floppy and if it finds the right filename,
to automatically flash the BIOS without any hotkey (DOS or even flash
utility). While it would be a bit unusual, but still doable.

So the second one should do the job under XP. Just download that one and
run the exe file and follow the directions. And if the directions say
nothing about needing a floppy (I would hope not), you are home free.

 

[DJW]

In

Oh bingo! It came originally with XP Home. And if that BIOS ULR is
correct for this model, just down the second choice (R67246.exe) and run
it under XP. No need for DOS or any need for floppies or anything.

The first choose requires a floppy and DOS.

The third choice doesn't require any DOS, just a floppy. It is indeed
possible for a BIOS to scan a floppy and if it finds the right filename,
to automatically flash the BIOS without any hotkey (DOS or even flash
utility). While it would be a bit unusual, but still doable.

So the second one should do the job under XP. Just download that one and
run the exe file and follow the directions. And if the directions say
nothing about needing a floppy (I would hope not), you are home free.

fyi this computer definitely was ordered with XP Pro sp1 the win
sticker and when I called dell and gave them the service number
confirmed it. So this second download is it a safe way barring a power
failure?

 

[Paul]

Heading towards the Bois upgrade I did find a old Panasonic model
JU-257-434P floppy drive. If I replace the broken one where and will I
need to find the driver for it. A bit confused and foggy about it all.
say someone has a cleaned hard drive formatted hard drive in a
computer does the floppy not work until the OS is started to be put
on. Just where is the driver for a floppy drive reside? In Rom? on the
bios chip? On the Hard drive?

The BIOS will support booting from the floppy, via code in the BIOS.
As far as I know, things like MSDOS, use Extended Int 0x13 calls
to read connected storage devices. So "if the BIOS sees it", then
MSDOS should be able to access the storage sectors on it. MSDOS
will only have support for a limited number of file systems,
such as FAT12, FAT16, and if the MSDOS is modern enough,
even FAT32. But there wouldn't be native support for NTFS,
and really no need in this case. So support is at two
levels - the BIOS delivers sectors of data on demand,
but MSDOS needs to understand the file system being used,
to make use of the data.

As long as the floppy version of the flashing thing, fits on
one floppy, it should be relatively easy to set up.

There are different flavors of floppy drives. At one time,
the BIOS would have a setting, something about "Japanese" floppy
drive versus the other flavor. As far as I know, all the floppy
drives I have here are the "dull boring" kind, and I've never
needed to set anything to get them to work.

And never had a problem getting an MSDOS floppy to attempt
to boot. It's still possible for a person to edit the
control files on the MSDOS floppy, and screw up the ability
of the MSDOS floppy to boot. But if you have a "vanilla
flavored one", unmodified, I'd expect that to go OK.

Modern OSes, they switch over to their own drivers, once
the boot process gets part way along. That's why, things like
OS installer discs sometimes get in trouble, because they
first start getting their data delivered via INT 0x13 BIOS
calls, and then later, try to use the driver on the disc
itself, to finish the process (driver talks to storage device).
But things like MSDOS are too clever for that, and continue
to use INT 0x13 while running as far as I know. What you add
to MSDOS, is files to support other file systems, such as
adding a file so MSDOS can read NTFS file systems.

Paul

 

[BillW50]

In

fyi this computer definitely was ordered with XP Pro sp1 the win
sticker and when I called dell and gave them the service number
confirmed it. So this second download is it a safe way barring a power
failure?

Yes. But we don't know what the directions say yet. It sounds like it is
a Windows flasher utility. If true, no floppies, no DOS, and you are
good to go.

 

[DJW]

BillW50

You do not need to
Boot Computer from DOS first
to run Flash.IMG

Just run a Flash Utility,
The BIOS always look for a:\
Flash.IMG Utility,
First for updates..

If right now I see the floppy in device manager does that mean all is
turned on in XP to see it and the device is definitely bad?

 

[Paul]

If right now I see the floppy in device manager does that mean all is
turned on in XP to see it and the device is definitely bad?

You can have a perfectly good looking Device Manager entry
for floppy, and still have a bad interface, interface cable,
or bad floppy drive.

If the flat ribbon cable is rotated 180 degrees, the LED on the drive
can remain in the lighted state. The floppy will not be damaged,
if the cable is rotated 180. Someone took care, when selecting
the cable pinout, to ensure no permanent damage on rotation.
That's why the cable doesn't need a keying tab. On IDE, there is
a tendency to use keying tabs a bit more. (only an ancient
IDE cable, might be missing keying tab or keying pin.)

The best way to test, is to double click the floppy icon in
the file manager, and see what happens. See if there are
any error messages. Listen for "good floppy noises". The
floppy drive will probably attempt to seek, even if the
floppy slot is empty.

The floppy needs power. The floppy power connector has a
keying vane so that the power only goes in one way. if the
floppy is missing its power cable, then naturally, it'll
be a silent as can be You may need to wiggle or cant
the connector at an angle, to change the power cable.

There are some floppy error numbers listed here. There's
probably a better page than this somewhere.

http://www.computerhope.com/issues/ch000426.htm

A bad BIOS setting can also upset the floppy, in that
there is some "Japanese floppy" setting in some BIOS screens.
I'm not sure of the significance of this. This is
different than the boot menu page. It's a separate
setting on a completely different page, and has something
to do with supporting more than one flavor of 3.5" floppy.

HTH,
Paul

 

[BillW50]

In Paul typed:

You can have a perfectly good looking Device Manager entry
for floppy, and still have a bad interface, interface cable,
or bad floppy drive. [...]
The floppy needs power. The floppy power connector has a
keying vane so that the power only goes in one way. if the
floppy is missing its power cable, then naturally, it'll
be a silent as can be You may need to wiggle or cant
the connector at an angle, to change the power cable.

I would think if a floppy drive has no power, it also wouldn't show up
in the Device Manager. At least I can't think of a single device that
would show up without power.

 

[Paul]

In Paul typed:

You can have a perfectly good looking Device Manager entry
for floppy, and still have a bad interface, interface cable,
or bad floppy drive. [...]
The floppy needs power. The floppy power connector has a
keying vane so that the power only goes in one way. if the
floppy is missing its power cable, then naturally, it'll
be a silent as can be You may need to wiggle or cant
the connector at an angle, to change the power cable.

I would think if a floppy drive has no power, it also wouldn't show up
in the Device Manager. At least I can't think of a single device that
would show up without power.

As far as I know, the floppy is different than other storage
devices. You only really know it's broken, at the point
that access is attempted. If it isn't powered, then
it's going to fail some operation at that point. But
when it's quiescent, and the system isn't fiddling with
the interface, I don't think there is any way to know
it's there.

Paul