My pc mother board has died - Install xp oem

[Rhonda Lea Kirk]

Jonny wrote:

Can you read? If so, then you should see for yourself that this
motherboard cannot be changed nonsense is not part of any license that
was agreed to. I doesn't take a law degree to see that.

This is not a legal opinion, just friggin' common sense.

I obviously made at least one person nervous with my comment about
practicing law without a license.

I should've known better, given the current legal climate, but CRaven
annoyed me.

People give legal advice all the time--to their friends, to their
acquaintances, to strangers on a newsgroup. It's only a problem when the
advice is a) wrong and b) presented as being accurate because the advice
giver has particular credentials that apparently guarantee its accuracy.

CRaven posted as a "licensing specialist," and the ordinary man on the
street would take that as definitive...in this case to his detriment.

But an ordinary poster who offers up an opinion and does not
misrepresent himself doesn't really have anything to worry about.

rl

 

[kurttrail]

My understanding is if it can be googled it isn't restricted by the
NDA.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=microsoft+oem+license&btnG=Google+Search

It's the second hit and you don't need a password to access it. Also
note there is no mention of the motherboard in the publicly
accessible document. I don't know of any publicly accessible
documents that say the motherboard defines the computer.

None that I've ever seen. Expecially no license ever mentions this
BULLSH*T!

In any case
even if it is on a web site I don't see how that would have anything
to do with amending the end user's license. It is conceivable that an
end user may not have Internet access and even if they do why would
they search for an amended license agreement. Until Microsoft puts
this (motherboard defines the computer) in a EULA that the end user
agrees to I don't see how it can be legally enforced. In practice
they can try to enforce it though activations but it would be
interesting to see it challenged in court. I often change
motherboards for customers. So far I have never been refused
activation.

Carey doesn't quote or paraphrase the SBL, as the SBL mentions NOTHING
about changing the motherboard invalidates the license.

http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.windowsxp.general/msg/3c86ca7795ae6bed?hl=en&

In that post he directly quotes a password-protected covered by the NDA
page. And in all of the OEM/motherboard threads he paraphrases this
nonsense, and makes it seem that it is coming from an actual license
that people agreed to, which I have yet to see ANY LICENSE that says
anything like, the changing the motherboard creates a new computer
invalidating the OEM Windows License.

--
Peace!
Kurt Kirsch
Self-anointed Moderator
http://microscum.com
"It'll soon shake your Windows
And rattle your walls
For the times they are a-changin'."

 

[kurttrail]

I agree. But I'm not the original poster, who *didn't* read the EULA
(probably can't since her computer is down) and who is now getting a
very long thread full of "expert" answers, not all of which agree.

Look, I didn't realize that CRaven person is not an employee of
Microsoft--s/he certainly went out of his/her way to look "official"
with all the titles below his/her name--so why would any other casual
user have that knowledge? If I were the person asking that
question...well, I read what you and Alias write pretty closely, Kurt,
and for that reason, I trust your answers, but for someone who pops in
to solve a single problem...it's a problem.

Who are you (the generic you, not the "Kurt you", because you're a
skeptic if ever there was one)going to heed? The poster with the
string of titles or the poster who either has no sig or a sig with a
a parody website and an apparent axe to grind?

Apart from the philosophical and interpretative line of the thread,
there is still a real live human being with a problem, and she came
here to get it solved. She has touched off a food fight, but she still
doesn't have a definitive determination, and if that's what she really
wants, then the thing to do is go straight to the horse.

rl

No one, not me, not Carey, and not Microsoft can make a definitive
determination about this unless this issue comes up before a judge and
then judge makes a definitive determination. Until then, the OP needs
to do is read the EULA and the SBL, and come to a determination that is
best for them.

If the OP thinks he/she/it agreed to follow some nonsense on a hidden
password-protected site, then that is up to him/her/it. They could
agree to believe that pigs can fly, if they want. All I know is that I
never agree to crap on a hidden password-protected web site. What Carey
claims is totally meaningless to me, and any rational person that has
actually read and understood the EULA and the SBL.

Anyone here that spends any length of time here eventually sees that
Carey is full of it. I'd be willing to bet that most of his fellow MVPs
are embarrassed by him. I just wish they'd be more vocal about
admonishing him, especially over this issue, as I'm pretty positive that
most MVPs don't agree with this motherboard nonsense he continually
spews.

You've read the EULA, and have seen no mention of the motherboard at
all. Go read the SBL,
http://oem.microsoft.com/downloads/Public/sblicense/English_SB_License.pdf,
and you'll see that the only mention of the motherboard is that it is
only ONE of FIVE components that make up a "fully assembled computer
system," and that's it.

No one needs to believe me. All they need to do is read for themselves,
and then come to their own determination. It really is that simple.

--
Peace!
Kurt Kirsch
Self-anointed Moderator
http://microscum.com
"It'll soon shake your Windows
And rattle your walls
For the times they are a-changin'."

 

[Carey Frisch [MVP]]

<snip>

JD - Microsoft (Expert):

Q: I hate to reiterate the meeting, but you said if you upgrade a mobo in any pc you are required to purchase a new os correct?

A: Yes, the OEM OS is tied to the motherboard. So, if the motherboard fails while under warranty the license remains intact.
However, if you are simply upgrading for feature or performance enhancements, you would need a new OS license.

Roger Goh [msft] (Expert):

Q: I hate to reiterate the meeting, but you said if you upgrade a mobo in any pc you are required to purchase a new os correct?

A: Yes, if you UPGRADE the mobo, you need to get a new OS because the OS is tied to the mobo.

Ref: http://www.microsoft.com/technet/community/chats/trans/sysbuild/05_0222_sb.mspx

--
Carey Frisch
Microsoft MVP
Windows - Shell/User
Microsoft Community Newsgroups
news://msnews.microsoft.com/

---------------------------------------------------------------------------­----------------

:

| > Rhonda Lea Kirk wrote:
| >
| >> If I were the original poster, I would just write to (not call)
| >> Microsoft, and ask for a determination, because this thread is
| >> totally out of control.
|
| <snip>
|
| > It is quite simple. Read the EULA and the SBL and make a
| > determination for yourself.
|
| I agree. But I'm not the original poster, who *didn't* read the EULA
| (probably can't since her computer is down) and who is now getting a
| very long thread full of "expert" answers, not all of which agree.
|
| Look, I didn't realize that CRaven person is not an employee of
| Microsoft--s/he certainly went out of his/her way to look "official"
| with all the titles below his/her name--so why would any other casual
| user have that knowledge? If I were the person asking that
| question...well, I read what you and Alias write pretty closely, Kurt,
| and for that reason, I trust your answers, but for someone who pops in
| to solve a single problem...it's a problem.
|
| Who are you (the generic you, not the "Kurt you", because you're a
| skeptic if ever there was one)going to heed? The poster with the string
| of titles or the poster who either has no sig or a sig with a a parody
| website and an apparent axe to grind?
|
| Apart from the philosophical and interpretative line of the thread,
| there is still a real live human being with a problem, and she came here
| to get it solved. She has touched off a food fight, but she still
| doesn't have a definitive determination, and if that's what she really
| wants, then the thing to do is go straight to the horse.
|
| rl

 

[Rhonda Lea Kirk]

No one, not me, not Carey, and not Microsoft can make a definitive
determination about this unless this issue comes up before a judge and
then judge makes a definitive determination. Until then, the OP needs
to do is read the EULA and the SBL, and come to a determination that
is best for them.

Microsoft can make a statement about how it intended its own agreement.
If that statement is contrary to what the EULA says, it would be the a
possible cause of action.

Without first knowing how Microsoft interprets its agreement, there's no
way to get to a judge.

In my personal life, I just do what I believe to be the right thing. If
I run into resistance, I start with a phone call or email, and I work my
way up to certified mail. I've never had the desire to sue anyone,
because most problems can be resolved without litigation if everyone
involved is reasonable.

Anyone here that spends any length of time here eventually sees that
Carey is full of it. I'd be willing to bet that most of his fellow
MVPs are embarrassed by him. I just wish they'd be more vocal about
admonishing him, especially over this issue, as I'm pretty positive
that most MVPs don't agree with this motherboard nonsense he
continually spews.

I'm not prepared to make a judgment yet about Carey, but I was very
unhappy with the hostile, sarcastic tone and lack of content in his
reply to my reply to CRaven.

I do know that I'm looking at a lot of sites that discuss this issue,
and he is not the only person who misunderstands the EULA. It appears to
me that his understanding does not derive from the EULA itself, but from
interpretations he has read elsewhere.

You've read the EULA, and have seen no mention of the motherboard at
all. Go read the SBL,
http://oem.microsoft.com/downloads/Public/sblicense/English_SB_License.pdf,
and you'll see that the only mention of the motherboard is that it is
only ONE of FIVE components that make up a "fully assembled computer
system," and that's it.

Oh, I read it. I think there's a big misunderstanding about the meaning
of the legalese.

I ran into a problem awhile ago with a client who died unexpectedly. It
was a large estate and there was potential for litigation. I was asked
to prepare a certification, as well as a file memo, and in it, I
mentioned how the client (who I spoke with often) would sometimes bemoan
her "incompetence." In context, she meant "I don't have a good
education, and sometimes I'm overwhelmed by all I have to manage." But
the word "incompetent" has a very specific legal meaning, and what she
meant is not how a lawyer or judge would interpret the word.

In the end, I revised the file memo, because it just had too much
problem-creating potential. Lawyers and judges do not speak standard
English, and if you try to interpret a term of art as the dictionary
defines it, you're hosed. I'm pretty sure Carey has done something
similar here.

No one needs to believe me. All they need to do is read for
themselves, and then come to their own determination. It really is
that simple.

I did both. I do believe you, but I also like to read.

rl

 

[Alias]

<snip>

JD - Microsoft (Expert):

Q: I hate to reiterate the meeting, but you said if you upgrade a mobo in any pc you are required to purchase a new os correct?

A: Yes, the OEM OS is tied to the motherboard. So, if the motherboard fails while under warranty the license remains intact.
However, if you are simply upgrading for feature or performance enhancements, you would need a new OS license.

Roger Goh [msft] (Expert):

Q: I hate to reiterate the meeting, but you said if you upgrade a mobo in any pc you are required to purchase a new os correct?

A: Yes, if you UPGRADE the mobo, you need to get a new OS because the OS is tied to the mobo.

Ref: http://www.microsoft.com/technet/community/chats/trans/sysbuild/05_0222_sb.mspx

And, of course, they are referring to branded OEMs, something that Carey
doesn't seem able to distinguish from generic OEMs. I just upgraded a
motherboard on one of my computers and clean installed its generic OEM
Home and it activated on line and passed WGA.

The EULA I agreed to -- and the ONLY one I agreed to -- says nothing
about upgrading motherboards necessitating a new OS, regardless of any
conversations Systems Builders may have had with Microsoft.

You're reaching for straws, Carey. The question is when will you be man
enough to admit it so we can all move on.

Alias

 

[Mistoffolees]

<snip>

JD - Microsoft (Expert):

Q: I hate to reiterate the meeting, but you said if you upgrade a mobo in any pc you are required to purchase a new os correct?

A: Yes, the OEM OS is tied to the motherboard. So, if the motherboard fails while under warranty the license remains intact.
However, if you are simply upgrading for feature or performance enhancements, you would need a new OS license.

Roger Goh [msft] (Expert):

Q: I hate to reiterate the meeting, but you said if you upgrade a mobo in any pc you are required to purchase a new os correct?

A: Yes, if you UPGRADE the mobo, you need to get a new OS because the OS is tied to the mobo.

Ref: http://www.microsoft.com/technet/community/chats/trans/sysbuild/05_0222_sb.mspx

The "experts" being quoted are totally irrelevant since this
particular definition of "motherboard" and its link to the
Windows operating systems needs to be stated by an Officer of
Microsoft in public. Microsoft has never done this nor has it
published this fact for the open record anywhere. Where is the
evidence that is being asked throughout this thread? If it is
under a password-protected page to a select few who are also
bound by a NDA, then it is binding only to those who have an
association to Microsoft through this manner.

 

[Alias]

<snip>

JD - Microsoft (Expert):

Q: I hate to reiterate the meeting, but you said if you upgrade a mobo
in any pc you are required to purchase a new os correct?

A: Yes, the OEM OS is tied to the motherboard. So, if the motherboard
fails while under warranty the license remains intact. However, if you
are simply upgrading for feature or performance enhancements, you
would need a new OS license.

Roger Goh [msft] (Expert):

Q: I hate to reiterate the meeting, but you said if you upgrade a mobo
in any pc you are required to purchase a new os correct?

A: Yes, if you UPGRADE the mobo, you need to get a new OS because the
OS is tied to the mobo.

Ref:
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/community/chats/trans/sysbuild/05_0222_sb.mspx

The "experts" being quoted are totally irrelevant since this
particular definition of "motherboard" and its link to the
Windows operating systems needs to be stated by an Officer of
Microsoft in public. Microsoft has never done this nor has it
published this fact for the open record anywhere. Where is the
evidence that is being asked throughout this thread? If it is
under a password-protected page to a select few who are also
bound by a NDA, then it is binding only to those who have an
association to Microsoft through this manner.

Carey will get back to you in an hour or so. He's out buying retail XPs
right now.

Alias

 

[Beck]

In my personal life, I just do what I believe to be the right thing.
If I run into resistance, I start with a phone call or email, and I
work my way up to certified mail. I've never had the desire to sue
anyone, because most problems can be resolved without litigation if
everyone involved is reasonable.

What a breath of fresh air
Makes a change from the serial litigators you see on the net.

 

[Rhonda Lea Kirk]

The "experts" being quoted are totally irrelevant since this
particular definition of "motherboard" and its link to the
Windows operating systems needs to be stated by an Officer of
Microsoft in public. Microsoft has never done this nor has it
published this fact for the open record anywhere. Where is the
evidence that is being asked throughout this thread? If it is
under a password-protected page to a select few who are also
bound by a NDA, then it is binding only to those who have an
association to Microsoft through this manner.

As far as I know, I'm bound only to the agreement I accepted when I ran
the software.

It would be interesting if Microsoft tried to embroider that agreement.

I think a class action suit would make it too easy for the company. I'd
rather see every affected user file an individual complaint in small
claims court.

What a nuisance it would be for the legal department. <grin>

rl

 

[Rhonda Lea Kirk]

You're reaching for straws, Carey. The question is when will you be
man enough to admit it so we can all move on.

I think he sincerely believes the position he's putting forth, Alias. He
can't admit to what he doesn't believe. That doesn't make him right, but
I've never known a "true believer" to be swayed by fact.

On the other hand, he is being asked to take the word of those who have
actually read the agreement over the word of "experts" from the company
that drafted the agreement.

I've seen this more than once--if you can make enough people believe the
agreement says something it doesn't, then it may not matter what the
agreement says, because most people don't read the agreement.

And everyone knows that the "common wisdom" is always right. :-|

Maybe this is one for Snopes.

rl

 

[kurttrail]

kurttrail Post license (kPL). By reading the post below, you are
subject to licensing terms that you have never agreed to, but are hidden

<snip>

JD - Microsoft (Expert):

Being employed by MS doesn't make them an "Expert," especially if they
wan't give a real name.

Q: I hate to reiterate the meeting, but you said if you upgrade a
mobo in any pc you are required to purchase a new os correct?

A: Yes, the OEM OS is tied to the motherboard.

If it was, then that should be clearly stated in the license. And it
is not.

So, if the motherboard
fails while under warranty the license remains intact. However, if
you are simply upgrading for feature or performance enhancements, you
would need a new OS license.

LOL! Since MS considers me my own OEM, my motherboard is under my
warranty. My warranty is good for as long as I'm alive, and I, as the
warrantor of the computer, am the one that determines what is a failed
motherboard.

Roger Goh [msft] (Expert):

Q: I hate to reiterate the meeting, but you said if you upgrade a
mobo in any pc you are required to purchase a new os correct?

A: Yes, if you UPGRADE the mobo, you need to get a new OS because the
OS is tied to the mobo.

Ref:
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/community/chats/trans/sysbuild/05_0222_sb.mspx

LOL! MS provides its own experts. Of course MS cannot be trusted.
They are a proven IP infringers, and predatory monopolist, so I wouldn't
trust them to give me the right time, let alone trust them give me an
answer to any question regarding licensing.

It would be like IBM just giving up to SCO just because SCO's "EXPERT"
claims that IBM has violated the Unix license.

--
Peace!
Kurt Kirsch
Self-anointed Moderator
http://microscum.com
"It'll soon shake your Windows
And rattle your walls
For the times they are a-changin'."

 

[Mistoffolees]

Mistoffolees wrote:




As far as I know, I'm bound only to the agreement I accepted when I ran
the software.

It would be interesting if Microsoft tried to embroider that agreement.

I think a class action suit would make it too easy for the company. I'd
rather see every affected user file an individual complaint in small
claims court.

What a nuisance it would be for the legal department. <grin>

rl

And this is why the Board and Officers of Microsoft have not
made such a public utterance. Microsoft's OS's from MS-DOS
through to Windows have depended on piracy and Bill Gates was
supposedly quoted on this fact in a recent LA Times report,
which also added that Microsoft condones such practice where
its market position is weak. It was mentioned that a Microsoft
OS operating in a computer means one less for its competitors.
Microsoft knows that "experts", particularly those from the
mid-1980's, are its "institutional memory".

But Microsoft really needs to consider what some of its MVP's
are saying publicly while advertising their status. It can be
misleading. Some should take the lead of a very noted one of
setting up a private, informative website and stop posting in
public forums. He probably gives one of the most informative,
unbiased and helpful assistance sites for Windows.

As for lawsuits, a class action might be the only way to go
since there is a floor for the filing of small claims in the
larger municipalities.

 

[Larry Samuels]

You owe me a new monitor for that one!
I'll never get the coffee off the screen.

--
Larry Samuels Associate Expert
MS-MVP (2001-2005)
Unofficial FAQ for Windows Server 2003 at
http://pelos.us/SERVER.htm
Expert Zone-

kurttrail Post license (kPL). By reading the post below, you are subject
to licensing terms that you have never agreed to, but are hidden on a
password-protected web page, that I'm not going give you the URL to! [
And the page really exists! ;-) ]

<snip>

JD - Microsoft (Expert):

Being employed by MS doesn't make them an "Expert," especially if they
wan't give a real name.

Q: I hate to reiterate the meeting, but you said if you upgrade a
mobo in any pc you are required to purchase a new os correct?

A: Yes, the OEM OS is tied to the motherboard.

If it was, then that should be clearly stated in the license. And it is
not.

So, if the motherboard
fails while under warranty the license remains intact. However, if
you are simply upgrading for feature or performance enhancements, you
would need a new OS license.

LOL! Since MS considers me my own OEM, my motherboard is under my
warranty. My warranty is good for as long as I'm alive, and I, as the
warrantor of the computer, am the one that determines what is a failed
motherboard.

Roger Goh [msft] (Expert):

Q: I hate to reiterate the meeting, but you said if you upgrade a
mobo in any pc you are required to purchase a new os correct?

A: Yes, if you UPGRADE the mobo, you need to get a new OS because the
OS is tied to the mobo.

Ref:
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/community/chats/trans/sysbuild/05_0222_sb.mspx

LOL! MS provides its own experts. Of course MS cannot be trusted. They
are a proven IP infringers, and predatory monopolist, so I wouldn't trust
them to give me the right time, let alone trust them give me an answer to
any question regarding licensing.

It would be like IBM just giving up to SCO just because SCO's "EXPERT"
claims that IBM has violated the Unix license.

--
Peace!
Kurt Kirsch
Self-anointed Moderator
http://microscum.com
"It'll soon shake your Windows
And rattle your walls
For the times they are a-changin'."

 

[Carey Frisch [MVP]]

In summary, here are the facts regarding Microsoft OEM licensing,
whether it is a generic OEM or PC manufacturer's preinstalled OEM:

1. An OEM license is a single-use license.
2. An OEM license is licensed for use only on the first computer
it is installed and activated on.
3. An OEM license is non-transferable to a different computer.
4. An OEM license is permanently tied to the motherboard BIOS.
5. If a motherboard becomes defective, it must be replaced with
an identical make and model, otherwise the OEM license is invalid
and a new license is required.

--
Carey Frisch
Microsoft MVP
Windows - Shell/User
Microsoft Community Newsgroups
news://msnews.microsoft.com/

 

[kurttrail]

You owe me a new monitor for that one!
I'll never get the coffee off the screen.

Sorry! I can't afford that right now, but I will give you the url to
the terms you accepted, but no one but you may look.

Ok, does everyone but Larry have their eyes closed?

Good.

http://microscum.com/kPL/

User Name: careyblowsdonkeys
Password: password

--
Peace!
Kurt Kirsch
Self-anointed Moderator
http://microscum.com
"It'll soon shake your Windows
And rattle your walls
For the times they are a-changin'."

 

[kurttrail]

kurttrail Post license (kPL). By reading the post below, you are
subject to licensing terms that you have never agreed to, but are hidden

In summary, here are the facts regarding Microsoft OEM licensing,
whether it is a generic OEM or PC manufacturer's preinstalled OEM:

1. An OEM license is a single-use license.

You mean like toilet paper is supposed to be used only once? That must
get kind expensive!

2. An OEM license is licensed for use only on the first computer
it is installed and activated on.
3. An OEM license is non-transferable to a different computer.
4. An OEM license is permanently tied to the motherboard BIOS.

ROFL! That is not a fact according to any license that was agreed to by
BOTH parties.

5. If a motherboard becomes defective, it must be replaced with
an identical make and model, otherwise the OEM license is invalid
and a new license is required.

LOL! People get non-identical mobo replacements all the time,
especially those that buy long-term service agreement from their OEMs.

Facts?! Please! It is quite obvious that longer you keep this nonsense
up, the more you need to validate you feeble opinion by making up
"Facts."

You are such a liar that you cannot admit that the above "Facts" is
really just your opinion derived from the opinions of others.

--
Peace!
Kurt Kirsch
Self-anointed Moderator
http://microscum.com
"It'll soon shake your Windows
And rattle your walls
For the times they are a-changin'."

 

[Rhonda Lea Kirk]

Sorry! I can't afford that right now, but I will give you the url to
the terms you accepted, but no one but you may look.

Ok, does everyone but Larry have their eyes closed?

Good.

http://microscum.com/kPL/

User Name: careyblowsdonkeys
Password: password

You are in need of a spanking. <laughing>

rl

 

[Alias]

In summary, here are the facts regarding Microsoft OEM licensing,
whether it is a generic OEM or PC manufacturer's preinstalled OEM:

1. An OEM license is a single-use license.

What do you mean by "single-use"?

2. An OEM license is licensed for use only on the first computer
it is installed and activated on.
True.

3. An OEM license is non-transferable to a different computer.
True.

4. An OEM license is permanently tied to the motherboard BIOS.

Only with branded OEMs. You *do* know the difference, don't you? A
generic OEM is *not* tied to the motherboard BIOS.

5. If a motherboard becomes defective, it must be replaced with
an identical make and model, otherwise the OEM license is invalid
and a new license is required.

False. I upgraded my motherboard, sound card, video card, NIC and 512MB
more RAM the other day and my generic OEM passed WPA and WGA with flying
colors.

Oops.

Alias

 

[Beck]

In summary, here are the facts regarding Microsoft OEM licensing,
whether it is a generic OEM or PC manufacturer's preinstalled OEM:

1. An OEM license is a single-use license.
2. An OEM license is licensed for use only on the first computer
it is installed and activated on.
3. An OEM license is non-transferable to a different computer.
4. An OEM license is permanently tied to the motherboard BIOS.
5. If a motherboard becomes defective, it must be replaced with
an identical make and model, otherwise the OEM license is invalid
and a new license is required.

If it is not in the eula then it does not apply no matter what MS think.