Most thoroughly tested Microsoft Software ever?

[jmathers]

Isn't that what Bill said? And who the heck was doing the testing?
Must have been the same people that are taking care of most technical
support issues these daze.
I can not believe that Visual Studio 2005 SP1 behaves the way it does
in Vista; its a joke. Yeah, I know, there's a Beta patch for Vista
users; and why would I apply anything Beta from Microsoft, when the
production/live stuff doesn't work worth a crap. Currently I am dead
in the water waiting for the VS patch for Vista, and all because I
decided to upgrade to Vista. Wish I could get my money back. Funny
thing is, I downloaded and ran the Vista upgrade advisor program that
was supposed to tell me about these issues. Never reported a single
issue until I actually started the upgrade process, then it told me
that I needed to uninstall a number of programs. Visual Studio wasn't
one of them. THe upgrade advisor never told me that the upgrade was
going to throw away my current printer drivers, because there are no
supported drivers for a printer I bought 1 year ago. HP has told me
they will support the printer, it might be a while though. I guess
everybody was in the dark here about when people might actually need
this stuff.

Its great to see all the old problems I used to experience, suddenly
reappear. Like clicking on the recycle bin, emptying the trash, but
the list stays there, although it says it emptied the trash.

Is the UAC for real? I would imagine 99.9% of the users have turned
this crap off. Is it OK to do this on virtually everything you try
and do. I feel like my mother is watching and approving everything I
do.

Are users expected to debug the few gadgets that are out there? I
have downloaded several of these and end up with errors when I reboot,
asking me if I want to debug... Why the heck would I want a Weather
gadget that never seems to update. What am I supposed to do with this
debug information; maybe actually fix the Gadget? I know what
happened; the people who worked on the OS also wrote some Gadgets!

I'm not sure how to fix the IE message "The current web page is trying
to open a site in your trusted sites" message. Jeez, I am on a
Microsoft web site trying to look at the Gadgets. Love the navigation
there also. I am looking for the new stuff, so maybe selecting last
record and working backwards will work; NOT.

I want names and numbers for the people responsible for this atrocity
called Vista!

 

[Paul Smith]

Isn't that what Bill said? And who the heck was doing the testing?
Must have been the same people that are taking care of most technical
support issues these daze.

There were five million downloads of the pre-release builds. May be you
should of downloaded it too, and give your feedback before it went RTM?

--
Paul Smith,
Yeovil, UK.
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User.
http://www.windowsresource.net/

*Remove nospam. to reply by e-mail*

 

[jmathers]

Yeah I heard Bill say that too. So your saying that five million
people never reported any problems? Lets see, I guess they didn't do
any development work, or empty their trash, or try printing anything
or try using any Gadgets. I know, I should have done a clean
install, and this is what is causing all my problems. I guess no one
truly understands what a clean install means for some people.

 

[Richard Urban]

The testers didn't try it on YOUR computer. YOU could have! Then you could
have contributed.

--


Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!

 

[Adam Albright]

The testers didn't try it on YOUR computer. YOU could have! Then you could
have contributed.

What I've seen of the testers based on the release version of Vista, I
think most "testers" would have trouble walking and chewing gum at the
same time.

 

[Dale]

Isn't that what Bill said? And who the heck was doing the testing?

Shane Nokes

Must have been the same people that are taking care of most technical
support issues these daze.
I can not believe that Visual Studio 2005 SP1 behaves the way it does
in Vista; its a joke. Yeah, I know, there's a Beta patch for Vista
users; and why would I apply anything Beta from Microsoft, when the
production/live stuff doesn't work worth a crap. Currently I am dead
in the water waiting for the VS patch for Vista, and all because I
decided to upgrade to Vista.

You installed a new OS on a production development box without checking the
MSDN newsgroups to see if it would work? Are you familiar with
msdn.microsoft.com? It has been all over there for months.

Wish I could get my money back.

You can

Funny
thing is, I downloaded and ran the Vista upgrade advisor program that
was supposed to tell me about these issues. Never reported a single
issue until I actually started the upgrade process, then it told me
that I needed to uninstall a number of programs. Visual Studio wasn't
one of them. THe upgrade advisor never told me that the upgrade was
going to throw away my current printer drivers, because there are no
supported drivers for a printer I bought 1 year ago. HP has told me
they will support the printer, it might be a while though. I guess
everybody was in the dark here about when people might actually need
this stuff.

And I cannot imagine that a developer would do an upgrade rather than a
clean install.

Its great to see all the old problems I used to experience, suddenly
reappear. Like clicking on the recycle bin, emptying the trash, but
the list stays there, although it says it emptied the trash.

Yep. You got 'em on that one. Score: Them 3, you .005

Is the UAC for real? I would imagine 99.9% of the users have turned
this crap off. Is it OK to do this on virtually everything you try
and do. I feel like my mother is watching and approving everything I
do.

Read the posts. Decide for yourself. You either want security or you
don't. They give you the option.

Are users expected to debug the few gadgets that are out there? I
have downloaded several of these and end up with errors when I reboot,
asking me if I want to debug... Why the heck would I want a Weather
gadget that never seems to update. What am I supposed to do with this
debug information; maybe actually fix the Gadget? I know what
happened; the people who worked on the OS also wrote some Gadgets!

Gadgets aren't critical development tools - at least any gadgets I have seen
so far. *shrug*.. skip them if they don't work. Even on a home pc used for
surfing or whatever else, they're optional. You can disable them.

I'm not sure how to fix the IE message "The current web page is trying
to open a site in your trusted sites" message. Jeez, I am on a
Microsoft web site trying to look at the Gadgets. Love the navigation
there also. I am looking for the new stuff, so maybe selecting last
record and working backwards will work; NOT.

I want names and numbers for the people responsible for this atrocity
called Vista!

1-800-Microsoft. Mr. Bill Gates.

 

[Conor]

Isn't that what Bill said? And who the heck was doing the testing?

THe great unwashed who downloaded BETA1/2/RC1/RC2 and who barely have a
clue how to turn on a ****ing PC, let alone file a bug report but
because their STOLEN version of XP was screaming WGA warnings at them,
they decided to try this new Windoze.

 

[john - no not that one]

The testers didn't try it on YOUR computer. YOU could have! Then you could
have contributed.

Unfortunately, testing and "contributing" aren't all they're cracked up to
be.

To the best of my knowledge, and throughout all OS betas since Win95, MS
ignores "contributions" from testers at times.
More often than will -ever- be admitted to here.
Back then they called it "works as expected" - now they simply write off
problems by saying it's "by design".
Same problem, different dismissal is all.

But same now as then, once they close an issue, they will no longer discuss
it - sometimes without explanation.

MS is a business, a monopolostic behemoth, and they are in it to make money.
Consumer input is not exactly priority #1.

 

[mikeyhsd]

like your self, a self proclaimed EXPERIENCED user who upgraded a production system without testing it first.

whine, whine, whine.

(e-mail address removed)@sport.rr.com

The testers didn't try it on YOUR computer. YOU could have! Then you could
have contributed.

What I've seen of the testers based on the release version of Vista, I
think most "testers" would have trouble walking and chewing gum at the
same time.

 

[Zim Babwe]

You are a developer and rushed to upgrade to Vista without going through the
newsgroups looking for issues on VS 2005 before upgrading? I have a machine
that has Vista on it (a test machine) but my work machine has XP and VS 2005
because I know it works. Yes, I have applied the patch to VS, but VS
doesn't behave properly so I can't rely on it for my day to day work.

If you had looked at the microsoft.public.dotnet.general or languages.vb
forums, you would see the postings regarding Vista and VS 2005. Keep your
Vista disk until they release SP1 and do a clean install of XP so you can
get back to work. There are too many issues to stay with Vista right now.

 

[Robert Firth]

You are insulting many people that are here to help. I don't think that is
necessary.

I reported all the problems I had, and now I don't have those problems
anymore. I have drivers for all my devices and they seem to be decent. It is
very stable on my system. I won't say that it will absolutely work on your
system because some manufacturers are not providing compatible drivers and
programs.

It is only 3 weeks after the launch of a new operating system. While it
seems like a long time and developers really had time before launch to get
ready, that is the reality. Those companies are slow to react. Vista
provides an excellent base for Microsoft to work on for future releases,
especially now since programmers will have extra incentive to follow proper
programming practices to not break compatibility now that Microsoft is
enforcing least privilege programs.

--
/* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* Robert Firth *
* Windows Vista x86 RTM *
* http://www.WinVistaInfo.org *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * */

 

[Shane Nokes]

I was only one of the testers

There were tons of us working on this.

Even with that said, Vista is going to have issues until SP1, no arguments
there.

How many of those issues reside with MS and how many reside with HW
manufacturers is up for debate.

Vista is not perfect, nor will any OS be.

Remember they just made a huge jump in the number of people using the OS.
New issues are bound to come up.

 

[Jupiter Jones [MVP]]

"I am dead in the water waiting for the VS patch for Vista, and all because
I decided to upgrade to Vista"
Really?
You installed something new on your computer without adequately testing or
researching beforehand?
Developers I know would do it differently and they do.

The Upgrade Advisor is just that an advisor.
No one should make more of that or other similar tools than there is.
You also needed to do appropriate research based on your specific needs.

"I guess everybody was in the dark here"
Not really, however some hardware manufacturers have done more than others.
If the printer is important, why didn't you verify Vista compatibility with
HP before upgrading.

UAC is for real and it works very well.
Once I had my computer setup, I rarely see UAC.
Disable UAC while you set up the computer.
Then once done, reenable UAC.
However some, relatively few, have legitimate reasons to disable UAC.

"Wish I could get my money back."
Very easy, return it to the seller.
If you live in North America, you can return vista directly to Microsoft if
the seller does not accept returns.

 

[John Butler]

Jupiter

I think you may have missed the point. There is a Catch 22 here!

We have hundreds of Windows XP installations. Like many with a large number
of PC's we are going to wait and see how Vista goes, at present it does not
offer any value for money. We certainly will not buy it this year.

All users are distrustful of going to Vista because XP Pro is a well
understood and reliable system. Yet if lots of users hold off until Vista is
"mature" how will Microsoft get the feedback to improve it?

Perhaps Windows has reached the end of its development and Microsoft can not
really improve it much, and just float new versions to keep their cash
flowing in?

Think of the car manufacturers in a similar situation who mostly
disappeared.

John Butler

 

[Grant]

You are insulting many people that are here to help. I don't think that is
necessary.

I reported all the problems I had, and now I don't have those problems
anymore. I have drivers for all my devices and they seem to be decent.

Admit it you had to buy new hardware didn't you!

 

[Tony]

Do you spammers have a life?

 

[Tony]

This is the answer, fat morons like this who sit in front of there computer
all day writing B.S. essays about there life story in a technical support
forum.

 

[Peter Flindt]

What make me really sucks when I hear something about Linux?

philosophic:
-When I read essays like this, very curio but I can't confirm only one of
this issues, I guess a lot of this posting is the result of hear some
problems from other peoples.
-Why I can read this essays? I am a little bit surprised at this point. Why
these peoples install MS products if Linux is perfect?
-I hear the same grouse from Linux fans against MS products since over ten
years, and no, sorry, they come always with the same arguments, only a few
companies write linuxsoftware or hardwaredrivers, but please be serious,
since ten years? AND why I can find a lot of software/driver for MACs from
the same companies? Somnething other must be wrong with Linux<=>companies in
my opinion, the market increase since this ten years and no more support?
They should ask why...
-Some of the security arguments why Linux SHOULD be better, is in my opinon
Linux on his own, who nerd realy want to write "bad software" for Linux?
No-one use it..., I am sure, imagine that 45% use Windows 45% use Linux 10%
MAC/others, in this case security<=>Linuy must be new defined.

technical:
-Linux is ONE OS? Which distru I should use? Which package from which distru
I can/should install on my distru? Why there are so many diffrents? That
make the things not realy easier for new users.
-I am to dumb and layz for Linux, I want an easy system, but I want NOT
fiddle around with a texteditor in some setting files, it's nice to see that
I adjust Linux better for my needs, but why I MUST do this sometimes?
-In this software I must click here to do some things in another software I
must click at a completly other location to do the same things. I miss some
standards for the GUI sometimes.
-Yes I know the following argument is not realy against Linux, but I have
this problem only with Linux... I can recived nearly any kind of files from
my friends with windows and can read it or do some thing with it, but Linux?
When someone send me an excel sheet I must reboot it and read it in
MS-Office, because OpenOffice scramble the tables completly. Yes I know this
is not primary a problem for Linux, because why this friend not send me an
OpenOffice table, but I always find a software/viewer/program if someone
send me a Linux specific file and I can open it in windows, but the other
direction?

-I could write more things why I have mot installed Linux on my system, but
I stop here...

Peter

 

[Christian Niehaus]

Linux is better u pisshead

 

[William C. Clay]

Linux is better u pisshead


Get a job.