Microsoft turns to technology licensing for Xbox Next

R

R420

microsoft.public.xbox,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.video,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,alt.games.video.xbox,alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati



Yet another article on MS's plans for building the new Xbox.

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?section_name=dev&aid=2534

Microsoft turns to technology licensing for Xbox Next

Rob Fahey 16:33 10/11/2003
Are off the shelf components hurting MS' pocket too much?


Recent agreements signed by Microsoft with a variety of companies to
supply technology for the successor to Xbox reveal that the company is
switching to the manufacturing model preferred by its rivals.

While the Xbox is formed of off the shelf components supplied by
leading technology firms such as Intel and NVIDIA, the contracts for
technology for the next generation console, codenamed Xenon, indicate
that the company's attitude to manufacturing has changed considerably.

Rather than buying devices which are effectively PC components from
manufacturers, Microsoft's next generation plan revolves around
licensing technology designs from key suppliers such as ATI, IBM and
SIS Technologies, and then arranging for the manufacture of these
chipsets itself - effectively becoming a full-scale chip maker, albeit
one without a fabrication plant of its own.

This new approach means that rather than selling components to
Microsoft, as NVIDIA and Intel do, ATI and IBM will be receiving
royalties for the use of their technology - but Microsoft will have
ultimate control over the manufacturing and final use of that
technology, effectively giving the company far more control over its
own platform, and the ability to make significant cost savings on
manufacture.

This is the same system that Nintendo and Sony operate, and it's one
ATI and IBM are familiar with - since they've worked with Nintendo and
Sony respectively on console projects. ATI provides the graphics
hardware for Nintendo's GameCube under broadly the same terms as its
new deal with Microsoft for Xenon, while IBM is one of Sony's
development partners on the Cell microprocessor for the PS3.

Another benefit for Microsoft is that this form of technology
licensing will make the Xenon platform into a far more proprietary
system than the Xbox, thus making it far less likely that people will
be able to hack the system to run PC software. This has been a major
problem for the Xbox to date - the inclusion of PC components in the
box was a red flag to a bull as far as software hackers were
concerned, and it's thought that many Xboxen are now used as home
media centres and emulators rather than as games consoles as a result.

The technology licensed from ATI is likely to be based on that used in
the company's Radeon cores, but will probably be modified
significantly to fit a games console's requirements. Similarly, it's
expected that the CPU core licensed from IBM will be a PowerPC core,
but it may be modified to fit into the Xenon platform - in much the
same way that the PS2 runs a MIPS architecture core which has been
modified with a new instruction set to make it more useful for console
gaming purposes.

Although this will probably deter the hackers to some degree, and the
business and manufacturing model open to Microsoft will almost
certainly save it significant amounts of money (with actual physical
manufacture of the chips likely to be outsourced either to the Far
East or back to IBM itself), it has its drawbacks. The company touted
the Xbox as the easiest platform of its generation to develop on
because it was so similar to the PC; this will not necessarily hold
true for Xenon, which won't be based on an x86 architecture like the
Xbox and the PC. Making life tougher for the hackers may also make it
tougher for legitimate developers - and there are also major question
marks over how this console will manage to maintain backwards
compatibility and play Xbox games, with rumours abounding that
Microsoft has approached emulation specialists Connectix with a view
to solving this thorny issue.
 
T

The Posting One

M$ Terminology 101: Approach = Buy

R420 said:
microsoft.public.xbox,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.video,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardwar
e.chips,alt.games.video.xbox,alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati



Yet another article on MS's plans for building the new Xbox.

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?section_name=dev&aid=2534

Microsoft turns to technology licensing for Xbox Next

Rob Fahey 16:33 10/11/2003
Are off the shelf components hurting MS' pocket too much?


Recent agreements signed by Microsoft with a variety of companies to
supply technology for the successor to Xbox reveal that the company is
switching to the manufacturing model preferred by its rivals.

While the Xbox is formed of off the shelf components supplied by
leading technology firms such as Intel and NVIDIA, the contracts for
technology for the next generation console, codenamed Xenon, indicate
that the company's attitude to manufacturing has changed considerably.

Rather than buying devices which are effectively PC components from
manufacturers, Microsoft's next generation plan revolves around
licensing technology designs from key suppliers such as ATI, IBM and
SIS Technologies, and then arranging for the manufacture of these
chipsets itself - effectively becoming a full-scale chip maker, albeit
one without a fabrication plant of its own.

This new approach means that rather than selling components to
Microsoft, as NVIDIA and Intel do, ATI and IBM will be receiving
royalties for the use of their technology - but Microsoft will have
ultimate control over the manufacturing and final use of that
technology, effectively giving the company far more control over its
own platform, and the ability to make significant cost savings on
manufacture.

This is the same system that Nintendo and Sony operate, and it's one
ATI and IBM are familiar with - since they've worked with Nintendo and
Sony respectively on console projects. ATI provides the graphics
hardware for Nintendo's GameCube under broadly the same terms as its
new deal with Microsoft for Xenon, while IBM is one of Sony's
development partners on the Cell microprocessor for the PS3.

Another benefit for Microsoft is that this form of technology
licensing will make the Xenon platform into a far more proprietary
system than the Xbox, thus making it far less likely that people will
be able to hack the system to run PC software. This has been a major
problem for the Xbox to date - the inclusion of PC components in the
box was a red flag to a bull as far as software hackers were
concerned, and it's thought that many Xboxen are now used as home
media centres and emulators rather than as games consoles as a result.

The technology licensed from ATI is likely to be based on that used in
the company's Radeon cores, but will probably be modified
significantly to fit a games console's requirements. Similarly, it's
expected that the CPU core licensed from IBM will be a PowerPC core,
but it may be modified to fit into the Xenon platform - in much the
same way that the PS2 runs a MIPS architecture core which has been
modified with a new instruction set to make it more useful for console
gaming purposes.

Although this will probably deter the hackers to some degree, and the
business and manufacturing model open to Microsoft will almost
certainly save it significant amounts of money (with actual physical
manufacture of the chips likely to be outsourced either to the Far
East or back to IBM itself), it has its drawbacks. The company touted
the Xbox as the easiest platform of its generation to develop on
because it was so similar to the PC; this will not necessarily hold
true for Xenon, which won't be based on an x86 architecture like the
Xbox and the PC. Making life tougher for the hackers may also make it
tougher for legitimate developers - and there are also major question
marks over how this console will manage to maintain backwards
compatibility and play Xbox games, with rumours abounding that
Microsoft has approached emulation specialists Connectix with a view
to solving this thorny issue.
 
U

USAF LM

The said:
M$ Terminology 101: Approach = Buy

So you really think MS is going to buy ATI and IBM? Probably not, but I
see where you're coming from. When MS approached Intel and nVidia to
provide the CPU and GPU, respectively, neither company was bought by MS.
On second thought, maybe you're just talking out of your ass.
 
S

stacey

R420 said:
Making life tougher for the hackers may also make it
tougher for legitimate developers

Just like trying to make life tougher on pirates with XP also made life
tougher for legitimate users. Didn't stop the pirates but it does still
make life tougher on legit users.

I have to wonder what % of x-boxes have been hacked compared to those that
haven't? And what % of hackers will stop hacking boxes just because MS
makes life tougher on developers.
 
R

RusH

(e-mail address removed) (R420) wrote in
Microsoft's next generation plan revolves around
licensing technology designs from key suppliers such as ATI, IBM and
SIS Technologies, and then arranging for the manufacture of these
chipsets itself - effectively becoming a full-scale chip maker, albeit
one without a fabrication plant of its own.

NOOOOOO, my nightmare comes true, i want to scream ! NOOO
Somebody stop them. First they make consoles on their own, next
they build a fab, and then all hell breake loose - they
make theyr little shiny proprietary PCs with are the only
one able to run Windows 2007 ... wake me up please.

Pozdrawiam.
 
I

Ice Wipe Inc.

I think he meant 'Bully' then 'buy'.

MS's arrogence has gotten quite out of hand in the last few years. XP is a
good example of that, that OS is like a mine field full of viruses. If they
think they can buy any new conpanies with using pressure, they won't
hesitate.

Oh yeah, can't forget to mention that they are pretty lazy as well, each new
OS they make is worst then the last. And can't forget the spying too.

Though I do wonder how much longer the shareholders will take before they
start demanding real results in the Console industry, with Japan as good as
gone, its a matter of time before Euro follows....(you can only offer so
many games for free without looking desperate, example Australia)

Oh well, no matter MS has plenty of bloodsoaked billions in their greedy
hands.
 
R

Roj

I think he meant 'Bully' then 'buy'.

MS's arrogence has gotten quite out of hand in the last few years. XP is a
good example of that, that OS is like a mine field full of viruses.

You know, there's an old saying:

Be sure brain is engaged before putting mouth in gear. I am yet to
see the myriad "virii" you speak of.
If they>think they can buy any new conpanies with using pressure, they won't
hesitate.

....and neither will IBM or Sony, or.... or... or...

Welcome to the American Dream.
Oh yeah, can't forget to mention that they are pretty lazy as well, each new
OS they make is worst then the last. And can't forget the spying too.

More typical anti-MS RabbleSpeak. In my experience, each MS OS has
improved although not every release has been a significant
improvement.

XP has been.
Oh well, no matter MS has plenty of bloodsoaked billions in their greedy
hands.

Oh puhleeze, kid - it's long since stopped being "n33t" (or whatever
that pitiful excuse for Webonics HipSpeak uses) to beat up on MS. Try
getting a life outside of the acne cream.
 
D

Dr.z3n

More typical anti-MS RabbleSpeak. In my experience, each MS OS has
improved although not every release has been a significant
improvement.

WinME wasn't an improvement over 98, nor 2000 (both were out at the time).
XP has been.

BZZZT, not over 2000, although I can see how this may be subjective. In
most respects (stability, responsiveness, ease of maintenence) 2k whips XP
hands-down.

Oh puhleeze, kid - it's long since stopped being "n33t" (or whatever
that pitiful excuse for Webonics HipSpeak uses) to beat up on MS. Try
getting a life outside of the acne cream.

I agree, blood-libel isn't something one just goes around and 'does'. Par
for the course, this wank was using MS products to post his msg. Gee-wiz.
Where from I wonder does MS have blood on its hands? I missed that. (maybe
they hooked Mugabe up w/ teh office 2004?)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pressreleases/stories/2002/03_march/10/pano
ramamugabe.shtml

Dr.z3n
 
R

R420

The Posting One said:
M$ Terminology 101: Approach = Buy

that doesn't make sense.

Why would MS buy any of those companies (IBM, ATI, SiS) when MS can
simply licence the technology they need for Xbox 2 ?
 
R

Roj

WinME wasn't an improvement over 98, nor 2000 (both were out at the time).


BZZZT, not over 2000, although I can see how this may be subjective. In
most respects (stability, responsiveness, ease of maintenence) 2k whips XP
hands-down.

I have to disagree. If you turn off all the cutesy-poo garbage in the
XP interface (animation, fading), you get back the speed. The disk
I/O is markedly improved. The memory management is tweaked and
faster. The stability is improved by over 20% compared to 2K. In
terms of ease of maintenance, the improved self-healing is definitely
a cut above 2K (although it can occasionally get in one's way) and the
vastly increased hardware support is a major boon as well.

And no, there's nothing subjective about any of this; I don't know
where you get your information from but ours come from testing the
product extensively (read: hammering the **** out of it) in-house.
All that being said, we're not going to rip out our sizable investment
in Win2K desktop machines (10K desktops coast to coast) and migrate to
XP - it's just not cost effective.
I agree, blood-libel isn't something one just goes around and 'does'. Par
for the course, this wank was using MS products to post his msg.

ROFL!
 
T

Tony Hill

BZZZT, not over 2000, although I can see how this may be subjective. In
most respects (stability, responsiveness, ease of maintenence) 2k whips XP
hands-down.

And XP adds several new important features, like an integrated
firewall and sufficient user-switching options that it makes it very
practical (and advisable IMO) to run applications as a
non-administrator on your home desktop, a first for Windows. I call
WinXP two steps forward, one step backward.

Of course, I'm still running Win2K. ~$150 is a lot of money to spend
for just one step forward.
 
R

RusH

Roj said:
The stability is improved by over 20% compared to 2K.

ROFL, tell me what is wrong in this sentence :
"You are 20% dead" or "Earth is 20% round"

face it - its unstable

Pozdrawiam.
 
A

Andrew

faster. The stability is improved by over 20% compared to 2K. In

Thats not my experience, I found XP far more unstable so I went back
to 2000 Pro. The only advantage I found with XP was that it boots
quicker - whoop de doo.
 
C

chrisv

I agree, blood-libel isn't something one just goes around and 'does'. Par
for the course, this wank was using MS products to post his msg. Gee-wiz.
Where from I wonder does MS have blood on its hands? I missed that. (maybe
they hooked Mugabe up w/ teh office 2004?)

Duuhhhh... Micro$oft is a monopoly. Using their products is not an
endorsement of them.
 
R

Roj

Thats not my experience, I found XP far more unstable so I went back
to 2000 Pro. The only advantage I found with XP was that it boots
quicker - whoop de doo.

I not so humbly submit that it's your hardware, specifically your
drivers. In *our* experience, that's the only thing that can bring XP
down. Apart form our corporate testing, I have five machines in my
house running XP - none ever crash or give grief and they run 24/7.
 
R

Roj

Duuhhhh... Micro$oft is a monopoly. Using their products is not an
endorsement of them.

....and being able to speak (or type) is not indicative that one is
intelligent.
 
K

Kill Hank vol. 1

chrisv wrote
Duuhhhh... Micro$oft is a monopoly. Using their products is not an
endorsement of them.

It is when there are alternatives that are easily found.
 
C

chrisv

chrisv wrote


It is when there are alternatives that are easily found.

Which very often is not the case. If it was so easy to get away from
Micro$oft, they wouldn't have the market share they do. Duh.
 
K

Kill Hank vol. 1

chrisv wrote
Which very often is not the case. If it was so easy to get away from
Micro$oft, they wouldn't have the market share they do. Duh.

For every Micro$$$oft product there i$ an alternative that i$ ea$y to
purcha$e or download.

Don't want to use Window$, there's Linux or Apple.
Don't like Outlook Expre$$, use Eudora or Forte Agent.
Don't like Office, use Corel.
Don't like Explorer, use Net$cape or Opera.

Unle$$ you work in an office where everyone must be u$ing the $ame
program$, you can u$e anything you want. Most people don't want to
bother becau$e they find nothing wrong with they are given.

They only thing I'll give you is Window$. Unle$$ you a programmer,
Window$ is the only O$ you can get on the PC.
 

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