Master/Slave issue

[John John]

Regardless of how the Master/Slave mode is set - by jumpering
or by Cable Select - they must be different for the 2 HDs on the
same cable. And before you jump on *that*, it applies only to PATA
hard drives since each SATA HD has its own cable.

*TimDaniels*

Hi Tim,

If the Master/Slave relationship is to be decided by Cable Select then
the jumpers on both drives are set at the same position, both are set to
C/S. The location of the drive on the cable determines which drive is
Master and which is Slave, not the jumpers. Hence the name, Cable Select.

John

 

[Timothy Daniels]

Ok, minor correction, to comply with IDE standards, the first IDE
device must always be a master, second one is always Slave.

While you may sometimes get away with ignoring the standards,
it tends to avoid a lot of troubleshooting when things start acting up.

And which HD on an IDE cable is the "first IDE device" and which
is the "second IDE device", and what piece of hardware or firmware
or software really cares? What you are saying is that something in the
system cares about the position of a device on the cable. What is that
"something"? The controller only needs Master/Slave to differentiate
the 2 HDs. It would be interesting, though, to know exactly what the
IDE specs say about Master/Slave and "first device" and "second device",
so could you provide a link to the specs? I fully expect, though, that
whatever the specs were when IDE was formulated, they are in many
ways by now superceded by modern circuit design. Of much more
importance is that there is a device at the end of the cable in the case of
a single device (for signal reflection reasons), and not that a lone device
must be set as Master.

*TimDaniels*

 

[Timothy Daniels]

I must have a comprehension problem with your original post.
I read that you re-jumpered an ide drive as slave by removing
a jumper. Must have been wrong....

No comprehension problem. It was an explanation problem.

*TimDaniels*

 

[Timothy Daniels]

Hi Tim,

If the Master/Slave relationship is to be decided by Cable Select then the
jumpers on both drives are set at the same position, both are set to C/S. The
location of the drive on the cable determines which drive is Master and which
is Slave, not the jumpers. Hence the name, Cable Select.

John

I hope you didn't read into my comments any contradiction to that.
How about this: "Regadless of how the Master/Slave mode is set - by
differentiating jumper settings or by position on the cable if they are both
jumpered for Cable Select - the modes must be different for the 2 PATA
HDs on the same cable."

*TimDaniels*

 

[Timothy Daniels]

Right. The Dell 5250 doesn't have any built-in SATA capability.
So, when I bought the SATA drive, I also had to buy the SATA
controller PCI board.

Details like that are significant. In this case, the motherboard's
BIOS couldn't know anything about SATA or differentiate between
PATA and SATA HDs, so settings in its BIOS wouldn't solve the
problem.

*TimDaniels*

 

[WaIIy]

I hope you didn't read into my comments any contradiction to that.
How about this: "Regadless of how the Master/Slave mode is set - by
differentiating jumper settings or by position on the cable if they are both
jumpered for Cable Select - the modes must be different for the 2 PATA
HDs on the same cable."

*TimDaniels*

That is one mangled sentence. Are you a lawyer?

 

[Timothy Daniels]

That is one mangled sentence. Are you a lawyer?

I am a programmer, not a lawyer. But I know how to write
sentences (when necessary) that are less likely to be misinterpreted -
as a lawyer also tries to do. That results in sentences that are stylistically
overly long at times. But we're writing technical English here, not poetry.

*TimDaniels*

 

[WaIIy]

I am a programmer, not a lawyer. But I know how to write
sentences (when necessary) that are less likely to be misinterpreted -
as a lawyer also tries to do. That results in sentences that are stylistically
overly long at times. But we're writing technical English here, not poetry.

*TimDaniels*

I was only ribbing you, but show that sentence to someone and ask them
what they think.

 

[Timothy Daniels]

I was only ribbing you, but show that sentence to someone and ask them
what they think.

I think if I showed that sentence to a lawyer, he/she would suggest
that I put a comma between "jumper settings" and "or by position" so
as to show the logical groupings (like parentheses, brackets, and braces
in math and programming languages). I actually *have* written legal
sections for ammendments to our HOA's CC&Rs, and the attorney
complimented me and took the entire sections with a change of just one
or two words. You have to stand back and ask yourself "How many
ways might another person without my point of view and without my
set of experiences and knowledge interpret that?" And, in blocking all
the possible ways of misinterpretation and in closing all the loopholes,
you end up with a long awkward set of sentences. It ain't pretty and it
don't role off the tongue like music, but it conveys the message accurately.
Actually, one of the valuable lessons I've learned by reading NGs for
more than 20 years (yes, since 1984) is that people can interpret English
sentences - even if it's written and grammatically correct - in many
surprisingly different ways.

*TimDaniels*

 

[WaIIy]

Actually, one of the valuable lessons I've learned by reading NGs for
more than 20 years (yes, since 1984) is that people can interpret English
sentences - even if it's written and grammatically correct - in many
surprisingly different ways.

*TimDaniels*

That's certainly true.