Massive slow-down after 30 mins on Sapphire Radeon 9800 Pro

[Adam Dawes]

I recently purchased a new Sapphire Atlantis Radeon 9800 Pro graphics card
for my PC.

Initially after installing it I was extremely impressed with it. UT2004 ran
at 1280x1024 with all the details up with a very smooth frame rate. However
after I'd been playing for about half an hour the frame rate suddenly
plummeted to just 12 FPS, making the game unplayable. Restarting the game or
the PC didn't make any difference and other software was affected too.

I tried again this morning, leaving the game to play itself. Again after
about 30 minutes of smooth play the slow down happened again.

Can anyone suggest what might be causing this? I wonder if it's a heat issue
(the air coming from the back of my PC is fairly warm) but would hope that a
new card would have sufficient cooling for this not to be a problem? It's
very frustrating anyway so I'd really appreciate any suggestions that anyone
can offer.

My PC is running an AMD 2400XP CPU on an Epox 8RDA+ motherboard, and I have
DX9 and the latest Catalyst drivers installed.

Many thanks,

 

[George Skuse]

It does indeed sound like a heat issue. IMHO, the cooling that comes stock
on the 9800 is no more than the minimum the factory could get away with. If
possile, try to set up a fan to blow directly on the card, or change the
cooling system to a better after market cooling solution.

You may also want to make sure that you are not suffering from a memory leak
due to anapplication that is hogging system resources.

 

[Adam Dawes]

It does indeed sound like a heat issue. IMHO, the cooling that comes
stock on the 9800 is no more than the minimum the factory could get
away with. If possile, try to set up a fan to blow directly on the
card, or change the cooling system to a better after market cooling
solution.

Thanks for your suggestions George. Can you (or anyone) recommend an after
market cooling solution that I could investigate?

Are other models of the 9800 Pro likely to be more stable that the Sapphire
Atlantis?

And finally, are there are utilities available that would let me check the
temperature of the graphics card? I don't know whether the hardware supports
this, but if it does it would help me to determine that the problem really
is with overheating.

Many thanks,

 

[Laurence Wilmer]

Thanks for your suggestions George. Can you (or anyone) recommend an after
market cooling solution that I could investigate?

Are other models of the 9800 Pro likely to be more stable that the Sapphire
Atlantis?

And finally, are there are utilities available that would let me check the
temperature of the graphics card? I don't know whether the hardware supports
this, but if it does it would help me to determine that the problem really
is with overheating.

Many hanks,

Adam.

Low tech, but I personally would open up the case and direct a desk fan at
the graphics card while repeating the game test.
If that improved the situation then pop in one these
http://www.sochilled.co.uk/product.asp?item=515
or similar.
HTH,
Laurence

 

[Navid]

Thanks for your suggestions George. Can you (or anyone) recommend an after
market cooling solution that I could investigate?

Are other models of the 9800 Pro likely to be more stable that the
Sapphire
Atlantis?

And finally, are there are utilities available that would let me check the
temperature of the graphics card? I don't know whether the hardware
supports
this, but if it does it would help me to determine that the problem really
is with overheating.

Many thanks,

This is a good VGA cooler.
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=35-186-110&depa=0
What are your CPU and case temperatures? Do you have MBM5 installed?
http://mbm.livewiredev.com/
What is your operating system? How much RAM have you got?
I am not very experienced. I have heard VGA heat resulting in artifacts
and/or freezes and crashes. But, not decreased fps!
I believe only 9800XT and 9600XT have the hardware capability of monitoring
the GPU temperature, not 9800 pro.
You can check your GPU core and DDR clock rates with this free utility.
http://www.lavalys.com/index.php?page=product&view=1&subpage=5
You can over/under-clock your GPU core and DDR with this free utility.
http://atitool.ocfaq.com/
I don't know anything about AMDs. Does your cpu provide throttling when too
hot, like Pentium 4s?

 

[Adam Dawes]

Low tech, but I personally would open up the case and direct a desk

fan at the graphics card while repeating the game test.
If that improved the situation then pop in one these
http://www.sochilled.co.uk/product.asp?item=515
or similar.

I'll have to try it this evening and see it it makes a difference.

And thanks for pointing out that fan (and indeed that whole web site),
that's MUCH better than the approach I was considering if it does turn out
to be a heat problem. ;-)

 

[Adam Dawes]

This is a good VGA cooler.

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=35-186-110&depa=0

Thanks for that -- I'm in the UK but the site that Laurence Wilmer mentioned
has this product too so I'll have a look on there.

What are your CPU and case temperatures? Do you have MBM5 installed?

I can't tell you offhand but I'll check tonight.

What is your operating system? How much RAM have you got?

Win XP Pro with 512MB DDR400 RAM.

I am not very experienced. I have heard VGA heat resulting in
artifacts and/or freezes and crashes. But, not decreased fps!

I know, I was thinking along these lines too but don't know what else it
could be. If everything went back to normal after a reboot I'd assume it to
be a software problem (not that it ever slowed down on my previous card, an
nVidia GeForce4 Ti4200) but the continued slow performance has made me think
that heat is the likely cause.

I wondered if the heat was causing the card to throttle its performance or
to simply stop working properly. If it's not the heat than I can only
imagine it's a faulty card. I'll experiment with the case open tonight,
anyway.

I don't know anything about AMDs. Does your cpu provide throttling
when too hot, like Pentium 4s?

I believe all the motherboard does it sound an alarm if it gets too hot, not
aware of anything else. I've left the alarm temperature threshhold settings
at their default values and it's never made a sound so far.

Thanks once again for all the helpful links.

 

[John]

I'll have to try it this evening and see it it makes a difference.

And thanks for pointing out that fan (and indeed that whole web site),
that's MUCH better than the approach I was considering if it does
turn out to be a heat problem. ;-)

I'm suffering simmilar probs with te hotter weather arriving and have just
ordered vga silencer.It replaces your existing gfx card fan (which lets face
it they aren't much cop and aren't even fitted very well) and it exhausts
the hot air out of the back of your pc like the blower from sochilled,anyway
see for your self and check out some reviews they seem to be highly
recommended

Try http://www.cpucitystore.co.uk/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=411
and theres a version 3 as well so check manufacturers website to see if v1
will fit your card,i think it should but check anyway.

 

[Adam Dawes]

I'm suffering simmilar probs with te hotter weather arriving and have
just ordered vga silencer.

This product does look interesting, and for UKP7 it's not going to be a
fortune wasted even it it doesn't fit...

I'm curious to know, are you having the same problems as me (large drops in
frame rate) as opposed to complete crashes, and have these problems only
started in the last week or two now that the UK finally has sight of the sun
for a bit?

 

[John]

This product does look interesting, and for UKP7 it's not going to be
a fortune wasted even it it doesn't fit...

I'm curious to know, are you having the same problems as me (large
drops in frame rate) as opposed to complete crashes, and have these
problems only started in the last week or two now that the UK finally
has sight of the sun for a bit?

My case and cpu temps rose abit after changing from a gf4 to a saphire
9800 pro but the room in which comps are in has really got warm these last
few weeks and i've been getting crashs/lockups and slow/stuttering
performance.
After examing the gfx card it wasn't to hard to spot the cooler isn't
much good so i decided to order the vga cooler,hopefully here tommorrow so
i'll see if its much better,it can't be any worse.
I really want to avoid adding loads of case fans and if the cooler is as
descent as they say it is then getting some heat out from the gfx card can
only be a good thing and like you say for £7 it won't be the most money ever
wasted trying to achieve this.

 

[Adam Dawes]

After examing the gfx card it wasn't to hard to spot the cooler
isn't much good so i decided to order the vga cooler,hopefully here
tommorrow so i'll see if its much better,it can't be any worse.

Please let me know how you get on with this, it looks like a good solution
it it works and is easy to fit.

 

[Adam Dawes]

Low tech, but I personally would open up the case and direct a desk
fan at the graphics card while repeating the game test.

Just been trying this and I managed to play for an hour with no slow-down at
all. Without the case open/desk fan it was dropping down to 30fps after
about 10 minutes and 12fps by 30 mins, so it does look like it's a heat
problem.

At initial power on, my system was registering a CPU temp of 33C and system
temp of 31C (it's too hot here today!). After using the system just in
Windows (no accelerated graphics) for 45 minutes this had risen to CPU @ 56C
and system temp @ 47C (with the case still on). Is this excessively hot?

I then played UT2004 for 30 minutes until the frame rate dropped back to
12fps and checked the temp again. It had only barely risen from before, to
CPU @ 58C and system at 48C.

With the case open and desk fan active, the temps are CPU @ 39C, system @
35C, this after an hour of UT2004.

Gotta get me one of those heat extractors I think.

 

[Laurence Wilmer]

Just been trying this and I managed to play for an hour with no slow-down at
all. Without the case open/desk fan it was dropping down to 30fps after
about 10 minutes and 12fps by 30 mins, so it does look like it's a heat
problem.

At initial power on, my system was registering a CPU temp of 33C and system
temp of 31C (it's too hot here today!). After using the system just in
Windows (no accelerated graphics) for 45 minutes this had risen to CPU @ 56C
and system temp @ 47C (with the case still on). Is this excessively hot?

I then played UT2004 for 30 minutes until the frame rate dropped back to
12fps and checked the temp again. It had only barely risen from before, to
CPU @ 58C and system at 48C.

With the case open and desk fan active, the temps are CPU @ 39C, system @
35C, this after an hour of UT2004.

Gotta get me one of those heat extractors I think.

Interesting - we live and learn!
I would have expected the darn thing to either work, or crash completely,
not just slow down - almost human!
Still, we haven't confirmed that it is the graphics card rather than the cpu
overheating yet, which is why I was not suggesting specifically a VGA cooler
to begin with.

Yes, I think 56 is too hot for the cpu, given that there will be momentary
rises much higher than that not caught by the monitor, and it will go much
higher under heavy load!
Right now my temps are 36/49, the cpu was hitting 54 under heavy load this
afternoon and I regard that as borderline - like it to stay under 50.

Quite honestly, rather than mess with overpriced bits of plastic, I just
have a desk fan oscillating to cool me and the computer case, but that
little slot exhaust fan is so easy to fit it is worth doing.

I have a powerful exhaust fan, an Enermax psu with regulated fans, the slot
exhaust fan, and an inlet fan at the front. Experimenting with
potentiometers on all of them has shown me that only the exhaust fans are
effective - moral, suck hot air out of the case and provide an environment
where it can dissipate quickly.

Good luck,
Laurence

 

[Navid]

Just been trying this and I managed to play for an hour with no slow-down
at
all. Without the case open/desk fan it was dropping down to 30fps after
about 10 minutes and 12fps by 30 mins, so it does look like it's a heat
problem.

At initial power on, my system was registering a CPU temp of 33C and
system
temp of 31C (it's too hot here today!). After using the system just in
Windows (no accelerated graphics) for 45 minutes this had risen to CPU @
56C
and system temp @ 47C (with the case still on). Is this excessively hot?

I then played UT2004 for 30 minutes until the frame rate dropped back to
12fps and checked the temp again. It had only barely risen from before, to
CPU @ 58C and system at 48C.

With the case open and desk fan active, the temps are CPU @ 39C, system @
35C, this after an hour of UT2004.

Gotta get me one of those heat extractors I think.

It may be the CPU throttling. Since you did not have this problem with your
older graphics card, it suggests that your new card generates more heat than
the older one. But, it is the CPU that heats up (because of the high case
temperature) and slows down its clock to avoid overheating. I still am not
sure that the AMD CPUs have throttling or not. If they do, this may be what
is happening. If they don't, I don't see how a 9800 pro would detect heat
and automatically reduce the clock rate. I have never heard that before.

What kind of CPU heat sink do you have? Can you increase the RPM of the
fan? Do you have an exhaust fan in your case other than the power supply
fan?

 

[Bill]

It may be the CPU throttling. Since you did not have this problem with your
older graphics card, it suggests that your new card generates more heat than
the older one. But, it is the CPU that heats up (because of the high case
temperature) and slows down its clock to avoid overheating. I still am not
sure that the AMD CPUs have throttling or not.

<snip>

The motherboard may be capable of throttling down the CPU if the
temps get high, I know mine can, Abit NF7-S.

Bill

 

[Jim Davis]

This product does look interesting, and for UKP7 it's not going to be a
fortune wasted even it it doesn't fit...

I'm curious to know, are you having the same problems as me (large drops in
frame rate) as opposed to complete crashes, and have these problems only
started in the last week or two now that the UK finally has sight of the sun
for a bit?

Overheating will cause graphics glitches at first, later comes crashes
needing the reset button.

I think you need more ram if you don't have 1 gig, get it.

But cooling is a good thing. Make sure you have a case fan installed
and your PS fan blows outward. You want to bring in air at the front
and blow it out the rear.

I also have a small PCI slot fan beside my 9800 Pro that helps.

 

[Jim Davis]

I know, I was thinking along these lines too but don't know what else it
could be. If everything went back to normal after a reboot I'd assume it to
be a software problem (not that it ever slowed down on my previous card, an
nVidia GeForce4 Ti4200) but the continued slow performance has made me think
that heat is the likely cause.

CPU overheat causes the FPS stuttering, not video card. You will see
weird graphics glitches when it overheats.

I wondered if the heat was causing the card to throttle its performance or
to simply stop working properly. If it's not the heat than I can only
imagine it's a faulty card. I'll experiment with the case open tonight,
anyway.


I believe all the motherboard does it sound an alarm if it gets too hot, not
aware of anything else. I've left the alarm temperature threshhold settings
at their default values and it's never made a sound so far.

But the default for most of the alarms is likely 70 degrees C.

55 C. should be a high limit for a P4 cpu.

Go to 1 gig memory immediately. That may cure your problem, but you
must put some fans in your case. One intake at lower front and one
beside the 9800 card.

 

[John]

Please let me know how you get on with this, it looks like a good
solution it it works and is easy to fit.

Seems to work much better than the standard one,my stuttering seems to be
fixed*touch wood*,case temps are down and cpu temp has dropped slightly as a
result also.It's also very quiet.It looks good

Fitting was a doodle.Full easy to follow instructions were included and
every thing u need.

The standard hs/fan litterally dropped off so there was no wonder it was
getting warm coupled with the onset of warmer weather it was just getting to
hot.

Well worth the price tbh.

Conns are it takes up the pci slot below agp slot

 

[dotnetman]

It does indeed sound like a heat issue. IMHO, the cooling that comes stock
on the 9800 is no more than the minimum the factory could get away with. If
possile, try to set up a fan to blow directly on the card, or change the
cooling system to a better after market cooling solution.

I wonder at what point the PC/gaming industry will be forced to water cooled
solutions to solve these heat problems with ever increasing speed/heat devices?

 

[JAD]

what case are you using?

I scanned through your post and didn't see it. you would figure that a
company would use a few different cases to check the QC on cooling
solutions, but alas they couldn't possibly cover all possibilities.