Making backups by just copying files

[BillW50]

Okay back when Windows 95 was released, you could dualboot to another
copy and copy just the Windows and Program Files folder to make a backup
of your OS and applications. Is the same still true with Windows XP?
Maybe adding the Documents and Settings folder too?

My plan is to use BartPE to copy the files over to a bootable USB hard
drive. This solves any files in use errors when copying files from
itself, right? Or this problem doesn't occur under Windows XP? Just
Windows 9x and ME?

Why not use a backup program you might ask? I hate them, especially if
they do not create a bootable usable copy. This is also handy to test
your backup copy as well. Plus this method is free and I can do this
with anybodys machine. As often I am asked to help others with no tools
around. LOL

Why not clone the HD? Yeah I have Partition Magic, DriveCopy, etc. But I
want to only make a backup of the OS and programs. Not the rest of the
data. Which is copied elsewhere. Another reason is that the backup
partition isn't large enough for the whole partition.

Next problem is changing the external drive to drive C to work proberly.
Since it will be copied from a working drive C. I guess I can always
turn off the laptop's internal HD through the BIOS. I guess that should
work.

Any thoughts and ideas about any of this before I start? TIA

 

[Guest]

Try running file transfer wizard from xp cd,select files,settings,data,etc
to save,
save to new folder,once its thru,move folder to cd or usb drive...

 

[Pegasus]

Okay back when Windows 95 was released, you could dualboot to another copy
and copy just the Windows and Program Files folder to make a backup of
your OS and applications. Is the same still true with Windows XP? Maybe
adding the Documents and Settings folder too?

My plan is to use BartPE to copy the files over to a bootable USB hard
drive. This solves any files in use errors when copying files from itself,
right? Or this problem doesn't occur under Windows XP? Just Windows 9x and
ME?

Why not use a backup program you might ask? I hate them, especially if
they do not create a bootable usable copy. This is also handy to test your
backup copy as well. Plus this method is free and I can do this with
anybodys machine. As often I am asked to help others with no tools around.
LOL

Why not clone the HD? Yeah I have Partition Magic, DriveCopy, etc. But I
want to only make a backup of the OS and programs. Not the rest of the
data. Which is copied elsewhere. Another reason is that the backup
partition isn't large enough for the whole partition.

Next problem is changing the external drive to drive C to work proberly.
Since it will be copied from a working drive C. I guess I can always turn
off the laptop's internal HD through the BIOS. I guess that should work.


Any thoughts and ideas about any of this before I start? TIA

I don't know what you mean with "This solves any files in use errors when
copying files from itself, right?" but yes, you can use a Bart PE boot CD
to create a bootable clone of your existing Windows installation, provided
that the target disk was formatted under WinXP.

 

[Bob I]

The USB drive won't be bootable as a Windows XP drive. What you want to
do sounds like it won't work as you currently envision. You could clear
the data, make the image and then restore the data form the backup to
get a smaller image.

 

[BillW50]

The USB drive won't be bootable as a Windows XP drive. What you want
to do sounds like it won't work as you currently envision. You could
clear the data, make the image and then restore the data form the
backup to get a smaller image.

Why do you say it won't be bootable under XP, Bob I? As I have a 320GB
HD that was bootable in a desktop and I placed it in an external USB HD
case. It has Windows XP installed on it and I hooked up my laptop to the
external HD. And my Gateway MX6124 laptop tries to boot from it. But it
fails, because it was a XP installed from another machine.

I did copy those 3 folders from my laptop (Windows, Program Files, and
Documents and Settings, and the boot files), but I didn't figure the
boot.ini quite right I don't think. Which number do you change first for
disk 1 vs. disk 0? This machine is a Home version which has no bootcfg,
but I do have access to a Pro version if that helps.

[boot loader]
timeout=30
default=multi(0)disk(1)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(1)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="External Windows XP Home
Edition" /fastdetect /NoExecute=OptOut
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Home
Edition" /fastdetect /NoExecute=OptOut

But you might be right, it just might be too much work to make it work.
Maybe I'll just backup the OS with ntbackup and hope for the best. LOL

 

[BillW50]

I don't know what you mean with "This solves any files in use errors
when copying files from itself, right?" but yes, you can use a Bart
PE boot CD to create a bootable clone of your existing Windows
installation, provided that the target disk was formatted under WinXP.

Well I already made a bootable BartPE CD. But this in itself will not
restore my OS in case of a disaster (HD faulure, etc). I was trying to
use BartPE CD to just copy the OS files from my laptop to my external
HD. Thus I could use that copy if my laptop internal HD ever fails. Plus
if I am successful, it should be bootable so I can see if it actually
works. As it is terrible making backups and later learn when it is too
late that the backups are no good.

 

[BillW50]

Try running file transfer wizard from xp cd,select
files,settings,data,etc to save,
save to new folder,once its thru,move folder to cd or usb drive...

Sounds good Andrew! Although I am trying to backup the OS files and not
the documents, videos, etc. Like if someday the OS and the program files
gets trashed. I need a working backup of them.

 

[Bob I]

The USB drive won't be bootable as a Windows XP drive. What you want
to do sounds like it won't work as you currently envision. You could
clear the data, make the image and then restore the data form the
backup to get a smaller image.

Why do you say it won't be bootable under XP, Bob I? As I have a 320GB
HD that was bootable in a desktop and I placed it in an external USB HD
case. It has Windows XP installed on it and I hooked up my laptop to the
external HD. And my Gateway MX6124 laptop tries to boot from it. But it
fails, because it was a XP installed from another machine.

I did copy those 3 folders from my laptop (Windows, Program Files, and
Documents and Settings, and the boot files), but I didn't figure the
boot.ini quite right I don't think. Which number do you change first for
disk 1 vs. disk 0? This machine is a Home version which has no bootcfg,
but I do have access to a Pro version if that helps.

[boot loader]
timeout=30
default=multi(0)disk(1)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(1)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="External Windows XP Home
Edition" /fastdetect /NoExecute=OptOut
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Home
Edition" /fastdetect /NoExecute=OptOut

But you might be right, it just might be too much work to make it work.
Maybe I'll just backup the OS with ntbackup and hope for the best. LOL

Have you actually successfully booted that drive as an External from ANY
PC? Windows wasn't configured to work that way, altho the are some
places that have "hacked" it into working.

 

[BillW50]

The USB drive won't be bootable as a Windows XP drive. What you want
to do sounds like it won't work as you currently envision. You could
clear the data, make the image and then restore the data form the
backup to get a smaller image.

Why do you say it won't be bootable under XP, Bob I? As I have a
320GB HD that was bootable in a desktop and I placed it in an
external USB HD case. It has Windows XP installed on it and I hooked
up my laptop to the external HD. And my Gateway MX6124 laptop tries
to boot from it. But it fails, because it was a XP installed from
another machine. I did copy those 3 folders from my laptop (Windows,
Program Files,
and Documents and Settings, and the boot files), but I didn't figure
the boot.ini quite right I don't think. Which number do you change
first for disk 1 vs. disk 0? This machine is a Home version which
has no bootcfg, but I do have access to a Pro version if that helps.

[boot loader]
timeout=30
default=multi(0)disk(1)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(1)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="External Windows XP Home
Edition" /fastdetect /NoExecute=OptOut
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP
Home Edition" /fastdetect /NoExecute=OptOut

But you might be right, it just might be too much work to make it
work. Maybe I'll just backup the OS with ntbackup and hope for the
best. LOL

Have you actually successfully booted that drive as an External from
ANY PC? Windows wasn't configured to work that way, altho the are some
places that have "hacked" it into working.

Well not yet, as this is the only machine (the Gateway MX6124) that I
have here that I am aware of that can boot from an USB HD or a flash
drive (this ability is found in some BIOS). Also if a flash drive is
plugged in on boot, it gives the normal no system found error. I suppose
I can take one of my unused Widnows XP Retail Install disc and see if it
will install and boot from that external drive. But that would be only
useful as a test.

 

[Bob I]

The USB drive won't be bootable as a Windows XP drive. What you want
to do sounds like it won't work as you currently envision. You could
clear the data, make the image and then restore the data form the
backup to get a smaller image.



Why do you say it won't be bootable under XP, Bob I? As I have a
320GB HD that was bootable in a desktop and I placed it in an
external USB HD case. It has Windows XP installed on it and I hooked
up my laptop to the external HD. And my Gateway MX6124 laptop tries
to boot from it. But it fails, because it was a XP installed from
another machine. I did copy those 3 folders from my laptop (Windows,
Program Files,
and Documents and Settings, and the boot files), but I didn't figure
the boot.ini quite right I don't think. Which number do you change
first for disk 1 vs. disk 0? This machine is a Home version which
has no bootcfg, but I do have access to a Pro version if that helps.

[boot loader]
timeout=30
default=multi(0)disk(1)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(1)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="External Windows XP Home
Edition" /fastdetect /NoExecute=OptOut
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP
Home Edition" /fastdetect /NoExecute=OptOut

But you might be right, it just might be too much work to make it
work. Maybe I'll just backup the OS with ntbackup and hope for the
best. LOL

Have you actually successfully booted that drive as an External from
ANY PC? Windows wasn't configured to work that way, altho the are some
places that have "hacked" it into working.

Well not yet, as this is the only machine (the Gateway MX6124) that I
have here that I am aware of that can boot from an USB HD or a flash
drive (this ability is found in some BIOS). Also if a flash drive is
plugged in on boot, it gives the normal no system found error. I suppose
I can take one of my unused Widnows XP Retail Install disc and see if it
will install and boot from that external drive. But that would be only
useful as a test.

No, I'm referring to booting an installed Windows operating system from
the external, not just the installer. It will be looking for an
"internal" drive to put itself on.

 

[RedForeman]

Sounds good Andrew! Although I am trying to backup the OS files and not
the documents, videos, etc. Like if someday the OS and the program files
gets trashed. I need a working backup of them.

Bill, I'm not interested in getting into a pissing contest, but what,
why and how do you expect anyone to help you when you are putting so
many restriction on what you want?

I've read the whole history of this thread, and you've given every
excuse possible why NOT to do things the right way... back up your
disk with ntbackup and be done with it... if you don't dedicate a
whole large capacity drive to your vital data, you get the loss you
deserve... I usually tell anyone who has a backup issue, you've got
to consider how important this stuff is... if it's very important,
then do what's right, the right way... If it's not important, then who
cares how it gets done...

RedForeman

 

[John Hensley]

The USB drive won't be bootable as a Windows XP drive. What you want
to do sounds like it won't work as you currently envision. You could
clear the data, make the image and then restore the data form the
backup to get a smaller image.

Why do you say it won't be bootable under XP, Bob I? As I have a 320GB
HD that was bootable in a desktop and I placed it in an external USB HD
case. It has Windows XP installed on it and I hooked up my laptop to the
external HD. And my Gateway MX6124 laptop tries to boot from it. But it
fails, because it was a XP installed from another machine.

I did copy those 3 folders from my laptop (Windows, Program Files, and
Documents and Settings, and the boot files), but I didn't figure the
boot.ini quite right I don't think. Which number do you change first for
disk 1 vs. disk 0? This machine is a Home version which has no bootcfg,
but I do have access to a Pro version if that helps.

[boot loader]
timeout=30
default=multi(0)disk(1)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(1)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="External Windows XP Home
Edition" /fastdetect /NoExecute=OptOut
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Home
Edition" /fastdetect /NoExecute=OptOut

But you might be right, it just might be too much work to make it work.
Maybe I'll just backup the OS with ntbackup and hope for the best. LOL

Have you actually successfully booted that drive as an External from ANY
PC? Windows wasn't configured to work that way, altho the are some
places that have "hacked" it into working.

To get copy of Windows XP or 2K booting and running from an external
USB hard drive one only needs to change the start value in service
keys of the drivers that make up the USB stack. The OS will then boot
and run from the drive but Windows will crash with a disk read or
write error if anything is dynamically plugged into the same USB hub
after booting is complete.

To get Windows to run un-interrupted on the USB drive requires adding
a custom driver to the USB stack that prevents new devices from being
recognized after the initial boot. This prevents the USB stack from
being torn down and rebuilt.

I gave a demo of XP running on a USB drive to many of the hard drive
manufacturers at Comdex way back in 2002. At that time there were
only a few hundred thousand USB drives being sold annually and the
drive manufacturers were only willing to pay a few pennies for each
piece of bundled software. Even though the drive manufacturers though
it was way cool it didn't make sense to continue pursuing the product.

Windows running from a user create RescueBoot CD uses a very similar
process for getting a subset of files from an existing installation of
XP or 2K to boot and run from the CD. In the future I'm hoping to
update RescueBoot to automatically create a bootable Windows XP or 2K
USB drive key in addition to the bootable CD.

John Hensley
www.resqware.com

 

[BillW50]

Bill, I'm not interested in getting into a pissing contest, but what,
why and how do you expect anyone to help you when you are putting so
many restriction on what you want?

I've read the whole history of this thread, and you've given every
excuse possible why NOT to do things the right way... back up your
disk with ntbackup and be done with it... if you don't dedicate a
whole large capacity drive to your vital data, you get the loss you
deserve... I usually tell anyone who has a backup issue, you've got
to consider how important this stuff is... if it's very important,
then do what's right, the right way... If it's not important, then who
cares how it gets done...

RedForeman

Because I always have done things this way and once I've done this, I'll
have the whole thing figured out and I'll be able to do things manually
like I have with Windows 9x and OS/2. As how many people do you know
that can install muliple copies of Windows 95 all in the same partition?
It was actually very easy to do. And having more than one Windows 95, it
was very easy to make a backup with the other one. As no files were in
use. And many claimed it couldn't be done.

As for ntbackup, I have heard horror stories that it doesn't always
backup files in use. But you can check the event log to see if it failed
or not. But otherwise you would never know until you tried to restore.
And I will be doing this too, I am sure. But I don't completely trust
ntbackup because others have said it doesn't restore into a bootable OS.
But they never said why? My guess they may have not repaired the MBR or
something.

Right now I am trying to make two partitions into one with this external
320GB. Partition Magic 8 won't touch it in the USB external. Claims the
geometry is different from what it understands. Which is funny since
Partition Magic 8 created those partitions when this drive lived in a
desktop.

So I am trying it now with Paragon Partition Manager 2005. Although I am
having trouble adjusting anything between the two boundies. Meaning I
can adjust the sizes except where the extended partition lives. I can't
make it larger or smaller. But I can with the logical partition within
it though. And the primary partition just before that. I have 6 hours to
go before that finishes. Maybe I can do something more when this job
making the logical partition smaller.

I do have backups for everything. Except for the 120GB worth of TV card
MPEG videos that I recorded. I really don't want to make 25 or more DVDs
just to back those up too. I do have 2 good 80GB HD sitting here that I
could throw in a desktop if I had too. So if I lose anything, it would
be just those. But that would be okay I guess, as I have seen all of
those programs already.

 

[BillW50]

To get copy of Windows XP or 2K booting and running from an external
USB hard drive one only needs to change the start value in service
keys of the drivers that make up the USB stack. The OS will then boot
and run from the drive but Windows will crash with a disk read or
write error if anything is dynamically plugged into the same USB hub
after booting is complete.

To get Windows to run un-interrupted on the USB drive requires adding
a custom driver to the USB stack that prevents new devices from being
recognized after the initial boot. This prevents the USB stack from
being torn down and rebuilt.

I gave a demo of XP running on a USB drive to many of the hard drive
manufacturers at Comdex way back in 2002. At that time there were
only a few hundred thousand USB drives being sold annually and the
drive manufacturers were only willing to pay a few pennies for each
piece of bundled software. Even though the drive manufacturers though
it was way cool it didn't make sense to continue pursuing the product.

Windows running from a user create RescueBoot CD uses a very similar
process for getting a subset of files from an existing installation of
XP or 2K to boot and run from the CD. In the future I'm hoping to
update RescueBoot to automatically create a bootable Windows XP or 2K
USB drive key in addition to the bootable CD.

John Hensley
www.resqware.com

Wow impressive John! I'll keep experiementing and I'll keep an eye out
for this. Thanks again.

 

[Poprivet]

Okay back when Windows 95 was released, you could dualboot to another
copy and copy just the Windows and Program Files folder to make a
backup of your OS and applications. Is the same still true with
Windows XP? Maybe adding the Documents and Settings folder too?

XP is different; very different.

My plan is to use BartPE to copy the files over to a bootable USB hard
drive. This solves any files in use errors when copying files from
itself, right? Or this problem doesn't occur under Windows XP? Just
Windows 9x and ME?

XP AFAIK will not boot from a USB device. Have you proven that it can be
done yet?

Why not use a backup program you might ask? I hate them, especially if
they do not create a bootable usable copy. This is also handy to test
your backup copy as well. Plus this method is free and I can do this
with anybodys machine. As often I am asked to help others with no
tools around. LOL

Sounds fishy and closed minded.

Why not clone the HD? Yeah I have Partition Magic, DriveCopy, etc.
But I want to only make a backup of the OS and programs. Not the rest
of the data. Which is copied elsewhere. Another reason is that the
backup partition isn't large enough for the whole partition.

You need an external drive that's large enough.

Next problem is changing the external drive to drive C to work
proberly. Since it will be copied from a working drive C. I guess I
can always turn off the laptop's internal HD through the BIOS. I
guess that should work.

Any thoughts and ideas about any of this before I start? TIA

You can only INSTALL ONE (1) instance of XP on any system. You will not be
able to get them both activated. Well, unless you do something illegal.

Good luck; sounds like a wart on the ass of progress to me.

Pop`

 

[Poprivet]

BillW50 wrote:
....
use BartPE CD to just copy the OS files from my laptop to my external

HD. Thus I could use that copy if my laptop internal HD ever fails.
Plus if I am successful, it should be bootable so I can see if it
actually works. As it is terrible making backups and later learn when
it is too late that the backups are no good.

It is NOT hard to validate/confirm and prove-out whether a backup restores
correctly or not. What planet are you from?

A Ghost and former ntbackup user during my poorer days.

 

[Pegasus]

Well I already made a bootable BartPE CD. But this in itself will not
restore my OS in case of a disaster (HD faulure, etc).

Why not? I've done it several times, using just this method!

 

[John Hensley]

Wow impressive John! I'll keep experiementing and I'll keep an eye out
for this. Thanks again.

If you want to try to get your USB drive booting Windows you can find
the names of the drivers in the USB stack using the Device Manager. If
you look at the entries under the USB controllers you will find the
names of the drivers by clicking on the "Driver Details" button on the
Drivers property page.

You can locate the service associated with each driver by searching
for the driver name in registry under:

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services

For example in XP you find the service key for usbhub.sys is named
usbhub. Sometimes the driver is specified in the service key without
tne .sys extension and sometime the name of the service key is used to
identify the driver file. For example the service TDTCP does not have
an ImagePath value the name of the driver is tdtcp.sys.

After finding the service key for the driver you will need to set the
"Start" value to 0 (zero) which tells Windows the driver is needed for
booting the OS.

Good luck,
John Hensley
www.resqware.com

 

[BillW50]

Why not? I've done it several times, using just this method!

How? With that Drive Copy utility? Mine doesn't work until I register
it. Or did you just copy the files over?

 

[Pegasus]

How? With that Drive Copy utility? Mine doesn't work until I register it.
Or did you just copy the files over?

Using xcopy.exe with lots of switches under a Bert PE boot.