Looking for motherboard

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not_here.5.species8350

My motherbaoard has blown and am looking for a repalacement. It can be second-hand or refurbished - the chepaer the better.

It is to replace a motherboard in a Dell Dimension E 520 (LGA 775, Pentium D 915 2.8GHz processor, chipset probably G965, power supply output 305W. Form factor BTX

I am considering the DEll motherboard, but I'd like something cheaper, my machine is quite old.

Any references greatly received

PS. UK references
 
F

Flasherly

On Sun, 14 Apr 2013 21:32:16 -0700 (PDT),
PS. UK references


My kind'a guy - cheaper the better. Problem with those P4s is they're
old and pull-status gear. Nickel & dime or ha'pennies - three, six or
more years ago. Great if MBs were up to it. Rumage sales may be good
for mem. and associate ancillaries, although the MB is where you're
taking the biggest chances. Somebody will send you one, but it's a
much higher risk, craps, on substandard and failure-prone gear.

Thing is, going entry level on a newer dual core, quite likely to GPU
enabled, may be close enough to overweigh that cheap spot in chasing
down 6-yr-old gear. I'd could figuratively send you this, my P4 3Ghz
478 socket, as I've a 775 early dual core P4 underneath the table for
a replacement. Marginally faster than this single core P4. Doesn't
mean that much to me anymore (an AMD x2 4200, newer but also old but
any relative standard, blows both them away as a entertainment system,
across the room. When/if sold it'll be under $50US for this MB and
everything on it.) But, I got these MBs awhile back from good
sources, brands, and they're tough. Both are Gigabyte MBs, I believe.
Which simply isn't always going to be the case, especially factoring
in time as if to attempt to get reliable gear again now.

You usually won't beat Ebay. And, if that doesn't turn you on, go
back to your newer options. Anything cheap on the newest entry-priced
CPUs is going to outperform the P4 lineup. I'd pesonally rather have
security, though, in having researched mbs/cpus for something new,
where budget constraints are also viable, say, buying all the rest
used. Heatsinks, mem., cpus, and the rest of that crap doesn't break.
A good PS is all that's left.
 
P

Paul

My motherbaoard has blown and am looking for a repalacement. It can be second-hand or refurbished - the chepaer the better.

It is to replace a motherboard in a Dell Dimension E 520 (LGA 775, Pentium D 915 2.8GHz processor, chipset probably G965, power supply output 305W. Form factor BTX

I am considering the DEll motherboard, but I'd like something cheaper, my machine is quite old.

Any references greatly received

PS. UK references

This is an example.

http://www.ascendtech.us/intel-g965-viiv-lga775-btx-motherboard_i_mb4intg965btx.aspx

But to use something like this, there's a whole checklist to go through.

I'll present a few items from my checklist.

The Ascendtech product, is missing the I/O plate. When you pull
the Dell (with the weird I/O connector collection), you put the
I/O metal plate from the new motherboard, in place of the I/O metal
plate of the Dell. I/O plates are supposed to snap out, for easy
replacement, and the I/O plate fills the gaps. I/O plates have
standard outer dimensions, and there are holes cut in the plate
which custom fit the connector configuration. The Ascendtech
is missing that plate (because the Ascendtech is a "board in a bag"
product, and not a regular retail motherboard). Intel bulk products,
ten to twenty motherboards come in a box, there is a separate
bag of I/O plates (one per motherboard), but lazy retailers
can't seem to mate motherboard with plate when selling a
board at a time. Intel bulk products are not like regular retail
motherboards, where each is in an individual box, comes with
spare cables and accessories. The "board in a bag", does come
with some accessories, but the lazy retailer can't be bothered
to "carve up" the box, and share the accessories over the
number of motherboards.

The Dell may have two PS/2 connectors. The Intel may assume the
usage of USB for the keyboard and the mouse. You can download
the PDF manual for the Intel motherboard, and Intel is pretty
thorough when listing the details. You'd want to check whether
the Intel has two, one, or zero PS/2 connectors.

The Dell likely has a high current, 1x5 fan connector. The Intel
motherboard has no such connector. The Intel has a four pin
connector, and the pin dimensions are different (the connectors
will not even be close to compatible). To "fake" the Dell
connector, you'll need the Dell fan pinout (I think it has two grounds
on it). You join RPM and PWM to the CPU fan header RPM and PWM.
You try to pick up +12V and GND from a Molex 1x4 from the power
supply. That prevents burning out the Intel fan header. The fan
should be under PWM control (a Dell, the fan would wail for the
first few seconds, until the firmware sets the fan speed on the
controller). On the new board, you can install a copy of Speedfan
from almico.com, to control the new motherboard fan speed (in
case the control structure is different than the Dell).

You'd check the outer dimensions of the board. Motherboard holes
are in standard positions. But there is some variation in board
dimensions, so you'd want to check for that. Some pre-built
computers, they don't even have a square board outline, and the
board can have "chunks" out of it (which makes it very hard to
match). Not a problem in this case. Just check the length and
width, in case the new board is too big.

Board swapping a non-Dell motherboard in, isn't entirely
a non-trivial exercise. I recommend finding a thread from
someone who has done it, rather than get a "best guess"
from a guy like me. I build computers from scratch, and
just don't have the experience Frankensteining old Dells.
Maybe Philo can help, if he is around.

Paul
 
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not_here.5.species8350

My motherbaoard has blown and am looking for a repalacement. It can be second-hand or refurbished - the chepaer the better.



It is to replace a motherboard in a Dell Dimension E 520 (LGA 775, Pentium D 915 2.8GHz processor, chipset probably G965, power supply output 305W. Form factor BTX



I am considering the DEll motherboard, but I'd like something cheaper, my machine is quite old.



Any references greatly received



PS. UK references

Hi Paul,

When you build computers from scratch how do you determine which motherboard will match with which case?

I am taking the cards out of my tower in preparation for installing a motherboard. On removing the graphics card I see lots of horizointal black strips. Do you know what theses are for?

When unplugging connectors from the motherbard there was cable tie that goes into the case of the psu. I wont be dismantling the psu (not safe), but how can this tie be released from the psu?

I was also wondering about earthing to reduce static. Why does touching the case send static to earth. The disconnected tower is just a piece of metal, does the static simply dissipate aound the chassis?
 
P

Paul

Hi Paul,

When you build computers from scratch how do you determine which motherboard
will match with which case?

The categories are called "form factors". Exterior dimensions and
holes, are in standard places.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_form_factor

I match a "Full ATX computer case" to a full ATX motherboard (12"x9.6").
The computer cases have names like "mid tower", but when you
read the product description, it'll name the form factors of
boards that will fit (full ATX, microATX).

With a form factor such as BTX, the exterior board dimensions are
different, the board layout is rotated 180 degrees with respect to ATX,
so they're quite different (and incompatible). BTX and ATX generally
don't mix.

Even when two products are BTX, I still need to examine them
for mechanical details, such as how the cooling is arranged.
Just because they have the same name, doesn't mean they're
"fit for use". You still have to use your brain. For example,
a Dell uses the same cooling fan for the CPU, to cool the computer
case. If they didn't do that, replacement selection would be
a lot easier. If you use a generic BTX, you have to check
whether it'll all work out or not.
I am taking the cards out of my tower in preparation for installing a
motherboard. On removing the graphics card I see lots of horizointal
black strips. Do you know what theses are for?

You can post a picture to imageshack.us or some other image hosting
site, then we can take a look. Your description doesn't ring a bell
at the moment.
When unplugging connectors from the motherbard there was cable tie
that goes into the case of the psu. I wont be dismantling the psu
(not safe), but how can this tie be released from the psu?

You cut cable ties with diagonal cutters. Scissors make a poor
substitute. Similarly, a hobby knife doesn't do a good job. But
diagonal cutters work well. One bite with these, and the nylon
is cut into two pieces. Any other cutting tool, will require
multiple attempts (hard on the fingers).

http://thumbs4.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/pict/330739879959_2.jpg

Make sure, when you cut the nylon tie, that no debris ends up inside
the power supply. Hold the cable tie, such that the body of the tie
doesn't end up inside the power supply. You do not want the power
supply fan to ingest a fragment.

If debris goes inside the supply, you can remove the four screws
holding the lid, and remove the item. One capacitor in there
(the largest one), can be charged to hundreds of volts. That
capacitor has a bleeder resistor on it. But never assume
the bleeder resistor is good, and the capacitor can still
have a charge.

In this diagram, C5 and C6 are dangerous. The bleeder R2
tames C5. The bleeder R3 tames C6. If you do the math,
1/2CV**2 for the caps, they store a *lot* of joules.
Shorting out the capacitor, you could lose an eardrum. Bang!

http://www.pavouk.org/hw/en_atxps.html

I'm really surprised a cable tie is looped through the
chassis of the power supply. That's not very smart. Are
you sure that isn't part of the supply itself ? Don't
cut something, unless you're sure it is meant to be cut
off and removed. (Cable ties are normally cut, during
maintenance. But the ties should be arranged in such a
way, so that the user knows which ones are intended for
removal, and which ones are structural and part of the
product. I keep bags of cable ties here, to re-do the
cabling later, and keep things neat and tidy. ATX power
supplies normally use "sleeving" to keep the wires neat
and tidy. You don't cut the sleeving.)
I was also wondering about earthing to reduce static. Why does
touching the case send static to earth. The disconnected tower is
just a piece of metal, does the static simply dissipate aound the chassis?

OK, some concepts. You don't "drain" ESD, what you're doing,
is bringing two objects to the same electrostatic potential.

Computer case
|
|
+---- ESD_Strap -------- Human ------- holding_DIMM_in_hand

In my example, I use an ESD strap, clamped onto my wrist. That makes
the computer case, and me, the same potential. I pick up a DIMM with
my other hand. Now, the DIMM is at the same potential as the
computer case. When I go to insert the DIMM, the DIMM is at the same
voltage as the computer. And when I do that, no "spark" flows from the
DIMM to the computer. That's what ESD control is all about.

The DIMM comes in an antistatic package. When I touch the package
with my hand, the DIMM packaging comes to the same potential as me,
but slowly. The plastic contains a high impedance conductive material.
The charge equalization takes a second or two, through the conductive
packaging.

When I was younger, I used to wrap electronics in tin foils. Wrong!
Tin foil is *not* a good substitute for antistatic bags or trays.
The impedance of tin foil is way too low. When you go to touch
the tinfoil, a huge spark leaps over. With the antistatic bag,
the rush of current flow is limited, so you don't see a spark.
Damage to electronic components, is partially a "current density"
problem. That's why ESD packaging is high impedance, rather than
low impedance like tin foil.

So when you're handling the components, you bring the objects to
the same potential, before mating them. When putting a DIMM in
its antistatic bag, you touch the inside of the bag with your
finger first, so the bag is at the same potential as you,
then slide the DIMM inside. Think "equipotential" and all is well.

So the rules are:

1) No "hard paths" for electron flow. No tin foil for ESD control.
An ESD strap for example, should have a 1,000,000 ohm resistor
in series with the wire. That bleeds charge slowly, and
avoids a current density problem.
2) Bring objects to the same electrostatic potential before
joining them. If you do that, there are "no sparks".

Paul
 
L

Loren Pechtel

On Tue, 23 Apr 2013 04:23:24 -0700 (PDT),
When unplugging connectors from the motherbard there was cable tie that goes into the case of the psu. I wont be dismantling the psu (not safe), but how can this tie be released from the psu?

Cable ties normally are single use and are cut to remove them.
I was also wondering about earthing to reduce static. Why does touching the case send static to earth. The disconnected tower is just a piece of metal, does the static simply dissipate aound the chassis?

It doesn't ground you *TO EARTH*. There's no need to be grounded *TO
EARTH*. What's important is that everything be at the same potential
so there's no current flow if you touch something.

Power company workers routinely work on wires charged to voltages far
beyond what you'll encounter with static. They make very sure to
ground to the wires before touching them (the equivalent of grounding
to the case, but they have to use a probe to do it because the spark
is hot enough to burn) and make very sure there's no path to earth. It
doesn't fry their equipment to work in such a field because
everything's at the same potential.
 
N

not_here.5.species8350

My motherbaoard has blown and am looking for a repalacement. It can be second-hand or refurbished - the chepaer the better.



It is to replace a motherboard in a Dell Dimension E 520 (LGA 775, Pentium D 915 2.8GHz processor, chipset probably G965, power supply output 305W. Form factor BTX



I am considering the DEll motherboard, but I'd like something cheaper, my machine is quite old.



Any references greatly received



PS. UK references

The cable tie at the psu comes out of a hole in the housing (I think the psu is providing a fixing point) and secures cables to the side of the psu. It is a cable tie. But the piece inside the psu may be meant to force through to the outside - not sure.

I was thinking about the cpu cooling. There is a large device that rests on top of the cpu coverplate. How does this stacked grid cooler work, does the fan force air down, or remove hot air up? It is quite a large device a plate meets the cpu coverplate.

I can't post images no camera.

How can I identify the BIOS on the motherboard?

Having removed the motherboard, I can't see anything wrong. All the capacitors look fine - no tops bursting, no bulging, no spillage or staining. I suppose the fault is internal!

There is a series of aluminium plates on the board, I wonder what these do.

Thank you for the very detailed replies.

Best wishes
 
F

Flasherly

A power supply is for modular: Screws into the case and plugs into
the MB or a high-end videocard. Does anything else it's up to no
good. (DELL believes the opposite, that Americans up to no good are
Americans that buy power supplies other than PS units DELL supplies
Americans. Hence the theory holds true while for white-skinned,
Occidental-eyed PS units only.)

CPU fans have instructions and come in boxes from a manufacturer,
along with good information for selling them on the manufacturer web
site.

The ID of the BIOS is on monitor.

Since a maintained PC's MB always look pretty, pretty is either not
salient to a dead, or working, MB;- as is every individual thing
working that becomes beatific functionality of the PC endowment.

Aluminum is a heat conductor. They stick a slab of alum on anything
needed to help transfer its heat into air flowing within and through
the case.
 
P

Paul

The cable tie at the psu comes out of a hole in the housing (I
think the psu is providing a fixing point) and secures cables to
the side of the psu. It is a cable tie. But the piece inside the
psu may be meant to force through to the outside - not sure.

As long as any remnant pieces don't get into the fan, it's OK.
Use your best judgment as to what to do.
I was thinking about the cpu cooling. There is a large device
that rests on top of the cpu coverplate. How does this stacked
grid cooler work, does the fan force air down, or remove hot air
up? It is quite a large device a plate meets the cpu coverplate.

Heat removal is via transfer into the airstream. Imagine how
a forced air stream moves through there, with best efficiency.
Then look for a fan that aligns in that plane of operation.

Convection cooling (no fan present), is limited to relatively
low power devices. Desktop CPUs don't generally fit that
description. Maybe someday soon, they will return to convection.
(Intel's next processor is getting close.)
I can't post images no camera.

How can I identify the BIOS on the motherboard?

If the motherboard is not operating, check for a paper label on the
top of the BIOS chip, which may indicate a version.

If the motherboard is working, a "BIOS string" appears on the very
first POST screen. You press the "Pause" key on the keyboard, to
make that screen stand still long enough, to write it down. For example,
I use the "Pause" key on my laptop keyboard, because the screen
flashes by so quickly, I can't otherwise read it.
Having removed the motherboard, I can't see anything wrong. All
the capacitors look fine - no tops bursting, no bulging, no
spillage or staining. I suppose the fault is internal!

That is very possible. For example, if a MOSFET fails short,
there might not be any visible symptoms. Nothing else would burn,
as long as the fault detection on the regulator works well. Sometimes,
one failed component, causes another to burn, and that's how you
figure it out. On a regulator, you can even burn one of those
toriodal shaped things, to the point it turns to powder.
There is a series of aluminium plates on the board, I wonder
what these do.

Those are chipset heatsinks. If a chip dissipates 2W or less, no
heatsink is required. Some chipsets are in the 15W-25W range, where
serious cooling is required. Some of the earliest chipsets
ran cool enough, they never needed heatsinks. There is a wide
variation in power ratings and cooling requirements. Things like
adding PCI Express I/O or high speed memory busses to the
Northbridge, that's what turned the Northbridge into a hothouse.

This is an example of a fancy aftermarket chipset cooler.
The longer fins than yours, only help a bit.

http://geizhals.at/p/150414.jpg
Thank you for the very detailed replies.

Best wishes

HTH,
Paul
 
N

not_here.5.species8350

My motherbaoard has blown and am looking for a repalacement. It can be second-hand or refurbished - the chepaer the better.



It is to replace a motherboard in a Dell Dimension E 520 (LGA 775, Pentium D 915 2.8GHz processor, chipset probably G965, power supply output 305W. Form factor BTX



I am considering the DEll motherboard, but I'd like something cheaper, my machine is quite old.

I see a number of chips on the motherbard. Is the large square black chip with Intel written on it the BIOS?
 
P

Paul

I see a number of chips on the motherbard. Is the large square black chip with Intel written on it the BIOS?

In the picture here:

http://www.teleful.com/media/catalo...8d6e5fb8d27136e95/d/e/dell_dimension_e520.jpg

1) The aluminum heatsink hides the Northbridge
2) The large square with the gold diagonal on one
corner, is the Southbridge. That does your SATA ports.
3) The BIOS chip, should be near the Southbridge, from
an architectural perspective.

I don't see a traditional PLCC BIOS chip. I would have to
guess your board uses an 8 pin DIP serial EEPROM, which
is too small to hold a paper label. The chip could be
the one to the right of the Southbridge. Soldered down.

I'm not sure this is too important. Maybe a modern BIOS
file would be needed for a Core2 processor, but your
processor is probably consistent with the microcodes
released in the original motherboard release. Any
replacement WG864 would likely be a good candidate.
Unless you have info to the contrary ? Did you read
a warning somewhere, that there would be trouble ?

Paul
 
N

not_here.5.species8350

My motherbaoard has blown and am looking for a repalacement. It can be second-hand or refurbished - the chepaer the better.



It is to replace a motherboard in a Dell Dimension E 520 (LGA 775, Pentium D 915 2.8GHz processor, chipset probably G965, power supply output 305W. Form factor BTX



I am considering the DEll motherboard, but I'd like something cheaper, my machine is quite old.



Any references greatly received



PS. UK references

That motherboard picture is correct - spot on.

What does the Southbridge chip do?

The heatsink does not appear to be removeable, It has a couple of spring clips, but when I push one down the sink does not move?

I see the little chip to the right (EEPRM). However, there is a much larger chip just above and a little to the right of the Southbridge. Do you what this chip does - just below the USB ports?

At the top of the board close to the USB ports, at the bottom and to the right, at the bottom of that long white label there are two prongs. One has a fawn coloured plastic cover. What does that do?

A few other things that occur to me on my exploration.

This board is a BTX board. Is a BTX board any square board, or must it be 260mm (my measurement)?

Th chipset is I believe G965.
If the chipset represents the electronics on a system board. Does this mean that any board labelled G965 must use the same electronics and bo of the same geometrical configuration, ie, the boards must be identical in every way?

People talk a lot about the damage that static can do. But are not the components covered in a varnish that protects against static?

I note the many colours of wiring in the case. What do the colour codes mean.

Thanks
 
P

Paul

That motherboard picture is correct - spot on.

What does the Southbridge chip do?

This is a sampling of things the chips do. Southbridge
is noteworthy for the SATA or IDE ports. Those are the
things people remember. The I/O rates are from highest
to lowest. The CPU does things the fastest (bandwidths
of many gigabytes/sec). At the bottom, the SuperIO does
things like serial ports at 9600 baud. So they're kind
of arranged in I/O rate order. The very slowest interfaces
go on the SuperIO. Architecturally, Intel has been working
at eliminating the SuperIO, by deprecating the interfaces
on it. That's why PS/2, floppy drive, and serial ports,
got "bumped off". There's really nothing wrong with PS/2
as far as I'm concerned. I find I never have a problem
with it, whereas USB has the occasional glitch. PS/2
is damn near bulletproof (just not hot-plug compatible).
I don't think I've ever had a problem with PS/2 here,
in my computer room.

CPU
|
RAM -- Northbridge --- PCI Express x16
|
Southbridge --- PCI bus ---- Ethernet
| --- SATA, IDE
| --- USB2
SuperIO ------- PS/2
------- Serial Ports
------- Voltage monitor
------- Floppy drive
The heatsink does not appear to be removeable, It has a couple of spring
clips, but when I push one down the sink does not move?

The hook and clip scheme, normally leaves that heatsink
"floating" a bit. But, if the manufacturer fits double
sided thermal tape underneath, that may be a secondary
mechanism to prevent if from moving. If disassembling it,
you'd have to be very careful to not damage it.

If a thermal paste is used instead, it functions as a lubricant
and then the heatsink moves freely.

A weakness of that generation of fastener, was the U-shaped
thing that solders into the motherboard, the solder does
not grip the metal very well. The U-shaped thing can pull
out of the motherboard. This is caused by the wrong metal
being used for the U-shaped thing. It should have been
tin/lead over copper, rather than being something resembling
stainless steel.

Later generations use nylon "push-pins", rather than the clip.
So the clip idea is no longer popular. I have never seen a
public admission by anyone involves with that stuff, that
their choice of metals was poor. They probably believe, to
this day, they did a good job :-(
I see the little chip to the right (EEPRM). However, there is a much larger
chip just above and a little to the right of the Southbridge. Do you what
this chip does - just below the USB ports?

By reading the numbers off the chip, and Googling them,
sometimes you can get a hint. I frequently can't get pictures
which show the codes on the chip. And guessing based on shape,
is pretty dangerous. I have a rough idea (like that chipset
diagram above), what some of the components needed would be.
But I won't be able to successfully identify everything,
at this distance.

The one above and to the right, could be an Ethernet controller.
But the chip shape is pretty weird. Lots of Ethernet chips, use
smaller, more modern packages than that (BGA).

Notice there is a chip similar in form, near the hook on the
PCI Express x16 port, and that one could be a Clock Generator.
It generates digital clocks, that determine the precise rates
that lots of the hardware runs at. When you overclock, that
involves programming registers inside a chip like that.
At the top of the board close to the USB ports, at the bottom and to the
right, at the bottom of that long white label there are two prongs. One
has a fawn coloured plastic cover. What does that do?

That could be the "Clear CMOS" jumper. It resets BIOS settings,
or perhaps it can also clear the BIOS password, if you're locked out.
Read the manual, before using it. Generally speaking, the power
should be disconnected, before you use it. The instructions
in the user manual, are supposed to warn you about that thing.
A few other things that occur to me on my exploration.

This board is a BTX board. Is a BTX board any square board, or must it be
260mm (my measurement)?

No, there are multiple motherboard standards, with a roughly square
shape to them. They're not all BTX.

BTX arranges the components in a particular pattern. Intel
offers a specification, which shows what the design principles are,
so you can do your own layouts. The design intent might have been
for the purpose of improving thermal performance. I don't think
BTX was too popular with hobbyists who build their own machines.
And the need for improved thermal performance, has been
gradually dropping. At one time, Intel was "gearing up" for
hot hot hardware, and that never happened. The Prescott processor
was a wakeup call for Intel, that they had to go back to the
lab, and design improved silicon and processes, and the
thermal madness had to stop. The stuff was just getting too hot.

The change from S478 socket, to LGA775, mainly added power and
ground pins to the socket. That was intended to beef up the
maximum amount of power the CPU could draw. They were preparing
for trouble, but at the same time, their fab staff were sent off
to work on improving things. And they're *still* working on that,
improving a bit every year. This year, it's FinFETs to the rescue
for example. (The processors coming summer of this year, will run
a lot cooler, and have smaller coolers fitted to the top.)
Th chipset is I believe G965.
If the chipset represents the electronics on a system board. Does this
mean that any board labelled G965 must use the same electronics and bo of
the same geometrical configuration, ie, the boards must be identical in
every way?

No. G965 identifies the chipset. It doesn't say anything about
any other detail. I could mount the chips in a soup can if I want.
Just because you buy another G965, doesn't make all possible
problems go away. G965 chipsets could be used on either ATX or
BTX form factor motherboards.

Another G965 board though, will allow the existing drivers
installed in your OS to work. But there could still be differences,
like, a different Ethernet chip on your new board. Just because
the board is G965, doesn't mean the Ethernet NIC chip is fixed,
and they could use RealTek, Marvell, or even Intel for it. And
a different driver needed for each. So while another G965 board
would likely start to boot, you might see the "new hardware wizard"
pop up when new and different chips are detected.
People talk a lot about the damage that static can do. But are not the
components covered in a varnish that protects against static?

Electrostatic protection is a compromise. Some materials, if
applied to a chip, not only do they suppress static electricity,
they also distort the electrical signals (the ones we want to keep).
So there are limits as to which techniques are compatible with
high speed signaling. A varnish coating could add a fraction of
a picofarad of capacitive coupling to a signal.

I worked with a guy, who used to investigate some of those
techniques. He used to get samples of the latest whizzy
gadgets for controlling static. And generally he was unimpressed
with most of them (they caused too much distortion, and he would
use various instruments to see how bad they were). You'd see some
of them introduced, and they'd promptly disappear from the market.
I never wasted time doing such work on the side myself. He was
just better at finding these things than I was. I relied on the
protection inside the chip, for that.
I note the many colours of wiring in the case. What do the colour codes mean.

Thanks

Well, black is ground :) The ATX supplies tend to use standard
colors, as specific in the ATX supply spec. So some of the colors
are relatively standard now. This link will help you answer some
of your questions.

http://www.playtool.com/pages/psuconnectors/connectors.html

HTH,
Paul
 
F

Flasherly

On Thu, 25 Apr 2013 05:02:29 -0700 (PDT),

In Intel chipset systems, the southbridge is named Input/Output
Controller Hub (ICH). AMD, beginning with its Fusion APUs, has given
the label FCH, or Fusion Controller Hub, to its southbridge.

The southbridge can usually be distinguished from the northbridge by
not being directly connected to the CPU. Rather, the northbridge ties
the southbridge to the CPU. Through the use of controller integrated
channel circuitry, the northbridge can directly link signals from the
I/O units to the CPU for data control and access.

A heatsink isn't made that's not removeable. How removeable is a
separate function bearing no coincidence within such attempts as
involve broken CPUs, the surrounding shrouding, or the MB proper.

Compatibility with ATX products

In the first months of production the ATX and BTX motherboards were so
similar that moving a BTX motherboard to an ATX case was possible and
vice-versa, this was possible because the first BTX motherboards were
ATX motherboards turned upside down, except for the component location
that really were BTX positioning.[3]

Later the BTX form factor had a big change by turning it into a mirror
image of the ATX standard, since the new motherboard design, both
standards are incompatible. Basically BTX motherboards are
'leftside-right' compared to ATX and not upside-down as before, i.e.
they are mounted on the opposite side of the case. Some computer cases
such as the Cooler Master Series (Stackers) were released to support a
varying range of motherboard standards such as ATX, BTX, Mini-ATX and
so forth, to ease motherboard upgrade without buying a new case;
however, all connector and slot standards are identical, including
PCI(e) cards, processors, RAM, hard drives, etc.

BTX power supply units can be exchanged with newer ATX12V units, but
not with older ATX power supplies that don't have the extra 4-pin 12V
connector, which was introduced with the ATX12V standard.[4]
[edit] Reception

The BTX form factor has not been widely adopted despite its
improvements over ATX and related standards. As a result, the
availability and variety of BTX-compatible components is limited.

One reason for the failure of BTX to gain traction in key markets was
the rise of energy-efficient components (CPU's, chipsets and GPUs)
which require less power and produce less waste heat, eliminating two
of the primary intended benefits of BTX. Another reason was the lack
of OEM adopters.[5]

Initially, only Gateway and Dell offered computers with the new
format, later HP and Fujitsu-SIEMENS (now Fujitsu) also offered some
BTX-based computers. However, most other manufacturers stayed with the
ATX standard, and even the handful of manufacturers who did adopt BTX
for some products continued to produce the bulk of their machines with
the ATX form factor.

Color coded wires were conductive to Pavlovian pigeons used during
early Farmer in the Dell PS assembly procedures, before robotics
became an exact science. Banks of Farmer Dell psychologists were
first employed to establish a determination within standardized
connectors, which prevented humans from plugging into other than
approved fashions oriented for modular ends;- nonetheless, it did take
awhile for the engineers to iron out kinks with pigeon coding the
wires to the connectors. Veneer jobs arose due to further
complications with the static gnomes and distracted pigeons' natural
propensity for grubbing them up. As the taste of veneer repels
pigeons, it served both to hide gimps from humans, whilst preventing
droves of pigeons from repeatedly abandoning their station at
burgeoning assembly plants during misapprehensible lunch breaks, to
compromise order by chasing about wily gnomes.
 
N

not_here.5.species8350

My motherbaoard has blown and am looking for a repalacement. It can be second-hand or refurbished - the chepaer the better.



It is to replace a motherboard in a Dell Dimension E 520 (LGA 775, Pentium D 915 2.8GHz processor, chipset probably G965, power supply output 305W. Form factor BTX



I am considering the DEll motherboard, but I'd like something cheaper, my machine is quite old.



Any references greatly received



PS. UK references

If I manage to locate a cheap motherboard, hopefully WG864, will I need to obtain any istallation disks, or will I be able to fit it and run?

I have now measured the motherbaord more accurately, and it appears to be form factor MicroBTX.

Does that gold flash on the Southbridge just indicate that it is the Southbridge?
 
P

Paul

If I manage to locate a cheap motherboard, hopefully WG864, will I need to obtain
any istallation disks, or will I be able to fit it and run?

I'm hoping it's close enough, to not even need any new drivers or anything.
It should just work.

*******

On a pre-built computer, the OS automatically activates, based on the SLIC table
stored in the BIOS. A Dell OS, validates using the Dell BIOS info. That's why
the WG864 is a good fit for your pre-built computer. The SLIC table will be
there, in the BIOS, any time your machine needs to return to factory install
setup.

On my computer, built myself, the BIOS has no SLIC table. I have to
click the activate button, and my computer contacts the Microsoft
server to activate.

In your case, by swapping in the WG864, the OS notices the NIC MAC address
is different (so the motherboard swap isn't completely the same), but all other
things being equal, no attempt should be made to activate again. It really
should be clear sailing. (Activation is measured, as per the following
article. This is Microsoft's attempt at keeping "one OS per box" and not
shifting the OSes around.)

http://aumha.org/win5/a/wpa.htm

Your computer case, had a 25 character key on the COA (certificate of authenticity).
In an emergency, you can use a regular Windows installer disc (same OS
as was on the computer originally) and reinstall, and you then use that COA key.
The SLIC table is no longer consulted in that case, and your activation
works the same way mine does. So the license key on the COA sticker on the
computer, isn't actually the same key as is in the preinstalled OS.
I have now measured the motherbaord more accurately, and it appears to be form
factor MicroBTX.

Sounds reasonable. Not all Dells are BTX, but a certain generation of
them will have BTX boxes used.
Does that gold flash on the Southbridge just indicate that it is the Southbridge?

Gold markings are sometimes used to indicate pin 1, or pin A1
in the case of a BGA package. During assembly, a human might
quickly eyeball the package, to ensure the marking is located
in the right corner. And that the chip did not get rotated
by accident during "pick and place".

Paul
 
N

not_here.5.species8350

My motherbaoard has blown and am looking for a repalacement. It can be second-hand or refurbished - the chepaer the better.



It is to replace a motherboard in a Dell Dimension E 520 (LGA 775, Pentium D 915 2.8GHz processor, chipset probably G965, power supply output 305W. Form factor BTX



I am considering the DEll motherboard, but I'd like something cheaper, my machine is quite old.



Any references greatly received



PS. UK references

Yes, I see that sticker (Certificate of Authentication).

As I recall, I had some difficulty booting before the hardware problem. If I need to repair, or re-install, the OS after installing the motherboard could this present a problem? I also have some Linux CD's and live USB's as well.

Thanks
 
N

not_here.5.species8350

My motherbaoard has blown and am looking for a repalacement. It can be second-hand or refurbished - the chepaer the better.



It is to replace a motherboard in a Dell Dimension E 520 (LGA 775, Pentium D 915 2.8GHz processor, chipset probably G965, power supply output 305W. Form factor BTX



I am considering the DEll motherboard, but I'd like something cheaper, my machine is quite old.



Any references greatly received



PS. UK references

I've noticed that the article you referenced is for XP, I had Vista Home Premium, 32 bit installed.
 
N

not_here.5.species8350

My motherbaoard has blown and am looking for a repalacement. It can be second-hand or refurbished - the chepaer the better.



It is to replace a motherboard in a Dell Dimension E 520 (LGA 775, Pentium D 915 2.8GHz processor, chipset probably G965, power supply output 305W. Form factor BTX



I am considering the DEll motherboard, but I'd like something cheaper, my machine is quite old.



Any references greatly received



PS. UK references

I used the site you referenced and found the Vista OS link. However the WPA links back to XP.

When the time comes, I would rather run a free Linux OS than buy another copy of Vista.
 
P

Paul

Yes, I see that sticker (Certificate of Authentication).

As I recall, I had some difficulty booting before the hardware problem.
If I need to repair, or re-install, the OS after installing the motherboard
could this present a problem? I also have some Linux CD's and live USB's as well.

Thanks

The Dell WG864 has the SLIC table in the BIOS, and the recovery partition on
the hard drive (the one you used to burn the recovery CD set), can
also be used to reload the OS into C:. The OS automatically activates,
without going to the net.

It's for situations where the hard drive died, you didn't make recovery
CDs like you were supposed to, then you can take a regular Windows installer
CD and use the COA license key. Then, the OS must be activated in the
same way as a home user would do it. If there's any problem, you just
phone Microsoft and they can help you.

If you put a non-Dell motherboard in your computer, then the Dell recovery
CD set will complain. And then you'd need to use the COA key and
a regular installer CD. And explain what you've done, to Microsoft
staff, so they can fix things up as needed. Worst case, the person
on the phone at Microsoft, gives you a very long string of characters,
to override the activation problem.

Microsoft should provide free tech support, for activation problems.
Certain classes of problems (i.e. the ones caused by Microsoft),
they offer to fix those. And activation is their problem.
As would be a Service Pack issue, or a Windows Update problem.

If the replacement motherboard is the same as the original, I
expect very little in the way of problems.

Paul
 

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