Licensing

K

kurttrail

"By the act of scrolling this post on your computer, you agree that I am
your everlasting Lord & Saviour. Breach of this term will result in you
burning in hell for ever and ever! Amen!"
@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl:

Your mentality shows with the above, you are trying to make a
statement, but you only offend.
By opening your reply, only someone with physic skills or previous
knolodge could know doing so would condem the respondent to burning
in hell, you do not give a choice to agree or disagree before you
declare one should burn in hell. Even [the evil in your opinion]
Microsoft gives you a choice to agree or disagree. :cool:

--
M$'s shrink wrapped license does the same thing, doesn't it?

No, The EULA has a a way to agree or disagree with it, The "I Agree"
and " I don't Agree" buttons.

But hides most of the agreement from the view of the user. My updated
agreement is in full view of the End User upon opening my post, and the
physical act of scrolling is just like hitting an agree button. No one
forces you to scroll down my post. It is totally your choice.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei!"
 
I

Ian Merrithew

No, The EULA has a a way to agree or disagree with it, The "I Agree"
and " I don't Agree" buttons.

Playing along -- is the former sufficient to prove consent to enter into
a binding contract? What if it's a minor who clicks "I Agree", for
instance? Or a neighbour who installs the software for you? Or if the
computer is purchased second-hand with the software already installed
(ahhh, there's a good one; no "I Don't Agree" option there!)?

And that's just off the top of my head. Any good lawyer can probably
come up with several more to contest consent. Now what does Microsoft do
to prove consent?
 
H

hermes

While listening to the voices in their head blather on endlessly about
inspecific gibberish, David typed:
:: @tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl:
::
::
::::: Your mentality shows with the above, you are trying to make a
::::: statement, but you only offend.
::::: By opening your reply, only someone with physic skills or previous
::::: knolodge could know doing so would condem the respondent to
::::: burning in hell, you do not give a choice to agree or disagree
::::: before you declare one should burn in hell. Even [the evil in
::::: your opinion] Microsoft gives you a choice to agree or disagree.
::::: :cool:
:::::
::::: --
::: M$'s shrink wrapped license does the same thing, doesn't it?
:::
::
:: No, The EULA has a a way to agree or disagree with it, The "I
:: Agree" and " I don't Agree" buttons.
::
::
:: --
::
:: David
::
:: Programmers write "Help Files" for a reason. use them.
::
:: "Due to Viewer dicretion...
:: Graphic violence is advised"
::
:: http://www.HeroicStories.com/
:: http://www.thisistrue.com/


Yes, but that's not until after one purchases the shrink wrapped package,
open it, and start the install. One loses any chance of returning it to the
store from where it was purchased after breaking the shrink wrap. And often
times one has problems returning it to M$, they are lucky if they only have
to pay the shipping in order to return it.
It's really that M$'s mentality shows that they are trying to make a
statement, but only offend. By opening the shrink wrap on a retail XP box,
only someone with physic skills or previous knowledge could know doing so
would condem the respondent to "burning in hell" (i.e. forced to agree to
the license agreement before reading it and being able to click "I don't
agree"), M$ does not give a choice to agree or disagree before they declare
one should "burn in hell" for purchasing their OS. Kurttrail makes an
excellent example of it above. :p
 
M

Michael Solomon \(MS-MVP Windows Shell/User\)

Microsoft North American Retail Product Returns
All North American retail Microsoft software comes with a 30-day,
Microsoft money back guarantee. Retail products can most easily be returned
through the retailer where the product was purchased, subject to that
retailer's return policy, or directly to Microsoft, subject to the policy
below.
Product Return Guidelines:


a.. Return the product within 30 days of purchase date
b.. Provide a copy of Proof of Purchase (copy of original sales
receipt, credit card statement or cancelled check)
c.. Provide complete contact information: street address (no PO
Boxes), city, state, postal code, telephone number and e-mail address if
applicable.
d.. Uninstall the software product from your computer and any
storage devices, delete any backup copies
e.. Include all related media and manuals
f.. Supply the name and location of the retailer where the product
was purchased
g.. Please include a brief statement as to why you wish to return
the product for a refund
h.. Send product, the original product packaging and all related
materials via traceable means (i.e., FedEx, UPS, Airborne, certified and
insured US mail)
Not eligible for refund through the North American Retail Product
Returns


a.. Product preloaded on a personal PC (contact the PC manufacturer)
b.. Product obtained through volume licensing or subscription
(Please check with your reseller/distributor for their return policy)
c.. Product acquired for free via electronic distribution
d.. Product purchased through electronic transmission online, over
the Internet (refunds are to be handled by the online software vendor)
e.. Reseller/Retailer and Contractor product returns (Please
coordinate your returns request with your Authorized Microsoft Distributor)
f.. XBOX console unit (please refer to your warranty and product
repair guidelines)
g.. Product no longer actively sold or technically supported by
Microsoft
h.. Product purchased through the Microsoft employee purchase
program
i.. Product obtained as Not For Resale Product
All validated returns will be processed within 2-4 weeks once the
product is received by the Return Center. Failure to include all the
information required could result in the refund being delayed or denied.

Questions: 1-888-673-8624
1-877-673-8889 (TTY Line)

SHIPPING ADDRESS FOR RETURNS in the United States:
Microsoft Product Returns Program
2031 Burroughs Ave.
San Leandro, CA 94577

SHIPPING ADDRESS FOR RETURNS in Canada:
Microsoft Product Returns Program
6200 Dixie Road Unit # 17
Mississauga, Ontario
Canada L5T2E1






--------------------------------------------------------------------------
© 2003 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved. Terms of Use.
Last Updated: July 17th, 2003
http://www.microsoft.com/info/nareturns.htm

--
Michael Solomon MS-MVP
Windows Shell/User
Backup is a PC User's Best Friend
DTS-L.Org: http://www.dts-l.org/

hermes said:
While listening to the voices in their head blather on endlessly about
inspecific gibberish, David typed:
:: @tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl:
::
::
::::: Your mentality shows with the above, you are trying to make a
::::: statement, but you only offend.
::::: By opening your reply, only someone with physic skills or previous
::::: knolodge could know doing so would condem the respondent to
::::: burning in hell, you do not give a choice to agree or disagree
::::: before you declare one should burn in hell. Even [the evil in
::::: your opinion] Microsoft gives you a choice to agree or disagree.
::::: :cool:
:::::
::::: --
::: M$'s shrink wrapped license does the same thing, doesn't it?
:::
::
:: No, The EULA has a a way to agree or disagree with it, The "I
:: Agree" and " I don't Agree" buttons.
::
::
:: --
::
:: David
::
:: Programmers write "Help Files" for a reason. use them.
::
:: "Due to Viewer dicretion...
:: Graphic violence is advised"
::
:: http://www.HeroicStories.com/
:: http://www.thisistrue.com/


Yes, but that's not until after one purchases the shrink wrapped package,
open it, and start the install. One loses any chance of returning it to the
store from where it was purchased after breaking the shrink wrap. And often
times one has problems returning it to M$, they are lucky if they only have
to pay the shipping in order to return it.
It's really that M$'s mentality shows that they are trying to make a
statement, but only offend. By opening the shrink wrap on a retail XP box,
only someone with physic skills or previous knowledge could know doing so
would condem the respondent to "burning in hell" (i.e. forced to agree to
the license agreement before reading it and being able to click "I don't
agree"), M$ does not give a choice to agree or disagree before they declare
one should "burn in hell" for purchasing their OS. Kurttrail makes an
excellent example of it above. :p
 
K

kurttrail

"By the act of scrolling this post on your computer, you agree that I am
your everlasting Lord & Saviour. Breach of this term will result in you
burning in hell for ever and ever! Amen!"
Microsoft North American Retail Product Returns
All North American retail Microsoft software comes with a
30-day, Microsoft money back guarantee. Retail products can most
easily be returned through the retailer where the product was
purchased, subject to that retailer's return policy, or directly to
Microsoft, subject to the policy below.
Product Return Guidelines:


a.. Return the product within 30 days of purchase date
b.. Provide a copy of Proof of Purchase (copy of original
sales receipt, credit card statement or cancelled check)
c.. Provide complete contact information: street address (no
PO Boxes), city, state, postal code, telephone number and e-mail
address if applicable.
d.. Uninstall the software product from your computer and any
storage devices, delete any backup copies
e.. Include all related media and manuals
f.. Supply the name and location of the retailer where the
product was purchased
g.. Please include a brief statement as to why you wish to
return the product for a refund
h.. Send product, the original product packaging and all
related materials via traceable means (i.e., FedEx, UPS, Airborne,
certified and insured US mail)
Not eligible for refund through the North American Retail
Product Returns


a.. Product preloaded on a personal PC (contact the PC
manufacturer) b.. Product obtained through volume licensing
or subscription (Please check with your reseller/distributor for
their return policy) c.. Product acquired for free via
electronic distribution d.. Product purchased through
electronic transmission online, over
the Internet (refunds are to be handled by the online software vendor)
e.. Reseller/Retailer and Contractor product returns (Please
coordinate your returns request with your Authorized Microsoft
Distributor) f.. XBOX console unit (please refer to your
warranty and product
repair guidelines)
g.. Product no longer actively sold or technically supported
by Microsoft
h.. Product purchased through the Microsoft employee purchase
program
i.. Product obtained as Not For Resale Product
All validated returns will be processed within 2-4 weeks once
the product is received by the Return Center. Failure to include all
the information required could result in the refund being delayed or
denied.

Questions: 1-888-673-8624
1-877-673-8889 (TTY Line)

SHIPPING ADDRESS FOR RETURNS in the United States:
Microsoft Product Returns Program
2031 Burroughs Ave.
San Leandro, CA 94577

SHIPPING ADDRESS FOR RETURNS in Canada:
Microsoft Product Returns Program
6200 Dixie Road Unit # 17
Mississauga, Ontario
Canada L5T2E1






---------------------------------------------------------------------- ----
© 2003 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved. Terms of Use.
Last Updated: July 17th, 2003
http://www.microsoft.com/info/nareturns.htm


And you don't get a full refund. You're out shipping & handling costs
plus valuable personal time.

Also how hard it would be for someone to find the return info if they
don't have web access?

Microsoft purposely makes it hard to make returns, otherwise they'd
include the return info inside the packaging.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei!"
 
B

Bruce Chambers

Greetings --

Not at all. Long before one gets to opening the shrink wrap, one
must first open a box that is clearly marked "For installation upon a
single computer only." The terms of the EULA should come as no
surprise. The user knows what he has even before he lays down his
money and leaves the store.


Bruce Chambers

--
Help us help you:



You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on
having both at once. -- RAH
 
K

kurttrail

"By the act of scrolling this post on your computer, you agree that I am
your everlasting Lord & Saviour. Breach of this term will result in you
burning in hell for ever and ever! Amen!"

Bruce said:
Greetings --

Not at all. Long before one gets to opening the shrink wrap, one
must first open a box that is clearly marked "For installation upon a
single computer only." The terms of the EULA should come as no
surprise. The user knows what he has even before he lays down his
money and leaves the store.

Yep, the user knows that he was *sold* a copy of copyrighted material
from the previous owner, the retailer. The stated intentions of the
manufacturer on the box has absolutely no bearing on how private
individuals privately & non-commercial can or cannot use their copy of
copyright material.

As Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart wrote:

"The limited scope of the copyright holder's statutory monopoly, like
the limited copyright duration required by the Constitution, reflects a
balance of competing claims upon the public interest: Creative work is
to be encouraged and rewarded, but private motivation must ultimately
serve the cause of promoting broad public availability of literature,
music, and the other arts. The immediate effect of our copyright law is
to secure a fair return for an 'author's' creative labor. But the
ultimate aim is, by this incentive, to stimulate artistic creativity for
the general public good. 'The sole interest of the United States and
the primary object in conferring the monopoly,' this Court has said,
'lie in the general benefits derived by the public from the labors of
authors' . . . . When technological change has rendered its literal
terms ambiguous, the Copyright Act must be construed in light of this
basic purpose." - http://laws.findlaw.com/us/422/151.html

With nearly $52 billion in in cash reserves, can you or anyone one
rationally argue, with a straight face, that MS has not gotten a "fair
return" for the creative labor of it's employees? So is there really
any reasonable argument that MS's One Computer EULA term in keeping with
the 'primary object" of Copyright which lies "in the general benefits
derived by the public from the labors of authors?"

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei!"
 
H

hermes

While listening to the voices in their head blather on endlessly about
inspecific gibberish, Bruce Chambers <[email protected]>
typed:
:: Greetings --
::
:: Not at all. Long before one gets to opening the shrink wrap, one
:: must first open a box that is clearly marked "For installation upon a
:: single computer only." The terms of the EULA should come as no
:: surprise. The user knows what he has even before he lays down his
:: money and leaves the store.
::
::
:: Bruce Chambers
::
:: --
:: Help us help you:
::
::
::
:: You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on
:: having both at once. -- RAH
::
::
:: :::
::: M$'s shrink wrapped license does the same thing, doesn't it?
:::
::: --
::: Hermes

Oh yeah, Bruce you are right! They only leave out the following:

Microsoft(r) Windows(r) XP Professional

END-USER LICENSE AGREEMENT

IMPORTANT-READ CAREFULLY: This End-User
License Agreement ("EULA") is a legal agreement between you
(either an individual or a single legal entity) and the
manufacturer ("Manufacturer") of the computer system or computer
system component ("HARDWARE") with which you acquired the
Microsoft software product(s) identified above ("SOFTWARE"). The
SOFTWARE includes Microsoft computer software, and may include
associated media, printed materials, "online," or electronic
documentation and Internet based services. Note, however, that
any software, documentation, or web services that are included in
the SOFTWARE, or accessible via the SOFTWARE, and are
accompanied by their own license agreements or terms of use
are governed by such agreements rather than this EULA. The terms
of a printed, paper EULA, which may accompany the SOFTWARE,
supersede the terms of any on-screen EULA. This EULA is valid
and grants the end-user rights ONLY if the SOFTWARE is genuine
and a genuine Certificate of Authenticity for the SOFTWARE is
included. For more information on identifying whether your
software is genuine, please see
http://www.microsoft.com/piracy/howtotell.

By installing, copying, downloading, accessing or otherwise using
the SOFTWARE, you agree to be bound by the terms of this EULA.
If you do not agree to the terms of this EULA, you may not use or
copy the SOFTWARE, and you should promptly contact Manufacturer
for instructions on return of the unused product(s) in accordance
with Manufacturer's return policies.

SOFTWARE PRODUCT LICENSE

The term "COMPUTER" as used herein shall mean the HARDWARE, if
the HARDWARE is a single computer system, or shall mean the
computer system with which the HARDWARE operates, if the
HARDWARE is a computer system component.

1. GRANT OF LICENSE. Manufacturer grants you the following
rights, provided you comply with all of the terms and
conditions of this EULA:

* Installation and Use. Except as otherwise expressly
provided in this EULA, you may install, use, access,
display and run only The SOFTWARE may not
be used by more than two (2) processors at any one time
on the COMPUTER, unless a higher number is indicated
on the Certificate of Authenticity. You may permit a
maximum of ten (10) ("Connection Maximum") computers
or other electronic devices (each a "Device") to connect
to the COMPUTER to utilize the services of the SOFTWARE
solely for File and Print services, Internet Information
services, and remote access (including connection sharing
and telephony services). The ten (10) Connection Maximum
includes any indirect connections made through
"multiplexing" or other software or hardware which pools
or aggregates connections. Except as otherwise permitted
below, you may not use the Device to use, access, display
or run the SOFTWARE, the SOFTWARE's
User Interface or other executable software residing
on the COMPUTER.

* Software as a Component of the Computer - Transfer. THIS
LICENSE MAY NOT BE SHARED,
TRANSFERRED TO OR USED CONCURRENTLY
ON DIFFERENT COMPUTERS. The SOFTWARE
is licensed with the HARDWARE as a single integrated
product and may only be used with the HARDWARE. If the
SOFTWARE is not accompanied by new HARDWARE, you may
not use the SOFTWARE. You may permanently transfer all
of your rights under this EULA only as part of a
permanent sale or transfer of the HARDWARE, provided
you retain no copies, if you transfer all of the SOFTWARE
(including all component parts, the media and printed
materials, any upgrades, this EULA and the Certificate
of Authenticity), and the recipient agrees to the terms
of this EULA. If the SOFTWARE is an upgrade, any
transfer must also include all prior versions of the
SOFTWARE.

* Mandatory Activation. THIS SOFTWARE
CONTAINS TECHNOLOGICAL MEASURES THAT
ARE DESIGNED TO PREVENT UNLICENSED
OR ILLEGAL USE OF THE SOFTWARE.
The license rights granted under this EULA are limited
to the first thirty (30) days after you first run the
SOFTWARE unless you supply information required to
activate your licensed copy in the manner described
during the setup sequence (unless Manufacturer has
activated for you). You can activate the SOFTWARE
through the use of the Internet or telephone; toll
charges may apply. You may also need to reactivate the
SOFTWARE if you modify your HARDWARE or alter the
SOFTWARE.

* Security Updates. Content providers are using the digital
rights management technology ("Microsoft DRM") contained
in this SOFTWARE to protect the integrity of their
content ("Secure Content") so that their intellectual
property, including copyright, in such content is not
misappropriated. Owners of such Secure Content ("Secure
Content Owners") may, from time to time, request MS,
Microsoft Corporation or their subsidiaries to provide
security related updates to the Microsoft DRM components
of the SOFTWARE ("Security Updates") that may affect
your ability to copy, display and/or play Secure Content
through Microsoft software or third party applications
that utilize Microsoft DRM.
YOU THEREFORE AGREE THAT, IF YOU
ELECT TO DOWNLOAD A LICENSE FROM
THE INTERNET WHICH ENABLES YOUR USE
OF SECURE CONTENT, MS, MICROSOFT
CORPORATION OR THEIR SUBSIDIARIES
MAY, IN CONJUNCTION WITH SUCH
LICENSE, ALSO DOWNLOAD ONTO YOUR
COMPUTER SUCH SECURITY UPDATES THAT
A SECURE CONTENT OWNER HAS REQUESTED
THAT MS, MICROSOFT CORPORATION OR
THEIR SUBSIDIARIES DISTRIBUTE. MS,
Microsoft Corporation or their subsidiaries will not
retrieve any personally identifiable information, or
any other information, from your COMPUTER by downloading
such Security Updates.

* Back-up Copy. IF MANUFACTURER HAS NOT
INCLUDED A BACK-UP COPY OF THE
SOFTWARE WITH THE COMPUTER ON
PHYSICAL MEDIA (e.g. CD OR
PARTITIONED HARD DRIVE), YOU MAY
MAKE A SINGLE BACK-UP COPY OF THE
SOFTWARE. You may use the back-up copy solely for your
archival purposes and to reinstall the SOFTWARE on the
COMPUTER. Except as expressly provided in this EULA
or by local law, you may not otherwise make copies of
the SOFTWARE, including the printed materials
accompanying the SOFTWARE. You may not loan, rent,
lease, lend or otherwise transfer the CD or back-up copy
to another user.

* Use of Previous Version Of Software. In lieu of installing
and using Microsoft Windows XP Professional SOFTWARE,
you may install, use, access, display and run ONE of
the following versions: Microsoft Windows 2000
Professional, Microsoft Windows NT Workstation version
4.0 or Microsoft Windows 98 (Second Edition) ("Downgrade
Software") on the COMPUTER, provided (1) you agree that
Downgrade Software support will NOT be provided hereunder
by Manufacturer, MS or Microsoft Corporation, their
affiliates or subsidiaries: (2) you agree that neither
Manufacturer, MS nor Microsoft Corporation will provide
you with the Downgrade Software or media; (3) you may
not loan, rent, lease, lend or otherwise transfer the
CD or back-up copy of Microsoft Windows XP Professional
to another end user, except as otherwise provided in
the transfer provisions of this EULA; and (4) such
Downgrade Software shall be deemed "SOFTWARE" for the
purposes of this EULA and use of the Downgrade Software
shall be in compliance with all the terms of this EULA,
except that, with respect to Microsoft Windows 98 (Second
Edition), your Connection Maximum shall be limited to
five (5) Devices.

* Reservation of Rights. Manufacturer, Microsoft Licensing,
Inc. ("MS") and its suppliers (including Microsoft
Corporation) reserve all rights not expressly granted
to you in this EULA.

2. DESCRIPTION OF OTHER RIGHTS AND
LIMITATIONS.

* NetMeeting/Remote Assistance/Remote Desktop Features.
SOFTWARE may contain NetMeeting, Remote Assistance, and
Remote Desktop technologies that enable the SOFTWARE
or other applications installed on the COMPUTER to be
used remotely between two or more computers, even if
the SOFTWARE or application is installed on only one
COMPUTER. You may use NetMeeting, Remote Assistance,
and Remote Desktop with all Microsoft products; provided
however, use of these technologies with certain Microsoft
products may require an additional license. For
Microsoft and non-Microsoft products, you should consult
the license agreement accompanying the applicable product
or contact the applicable licensor to determine whether
use of NetMeeting, Remote Assistance, or Remote Desktop
is permitted without an additional license.

* Consent to Use of Data. You agree that MS and Microsoft
Corporation and their affiliates may collect and use
technical information gathered in any manner as part
of the product support services provided to you, if any,
related to the SOFTWARE. MS, Microsoft Corporation and
their affiliates may use this information solely to
improve their products or to provide customized services
or technologies to you. MS, Microsoft Corporation and
their affiliates may disclose this information to others,
but not in a form that personally identifies you.

* Internet Gaming/Update Features. If you choose to utilize
the Internet gaming or update features within the
SOFTWARE, it is necessary to use certain COMPUTER system,
hardware, and software information to implement the
features. By using these features, you explicitly
authorize MS, Microsoft Corporation and/or their
designated agent to use this information solely to
improve our products or to provide customized services
or technologies to you. MS or Microsoft Corporation
may disclose this information to others, but not in a
form that personally identifies you.

* Internet-Based Services Components. The SOFTWARE contains
components that enable and facilitate the use of certain
Internet-based services. You acknowledge and agree that
MS, Microsoft Corporation or their subsidiaries may
automatically check the version of the SOFTWARE and/or
its components that you are utilizing and may provide
upgrades or supplements to the SOFTWARE that may be
automatically downloaded to your COMPUTER.

* Language Version Selection. (i) Manufacturer may have
elected to provide you with a one-time selection of two
or more language versions of the SOFTWARE as part of
the SOFTWARE setup process. In such event, you are
licensed to use only one of the language versions
provided. Once you have used a language version, you
are not licensed to use any of the other language
versions that Manufacturer may have included with the
COMPUTER. (ii) Notwithstanding the preceding, if
Manufacturer has elected to provide you with a
Multilingual User Interface ("MUI") for certain language
versions with additional language version support of
the SOFTWARE, the preceding limitation to select and
use only one language version of the SOFTWARE shall not
apply, so long as (A) you acknowledge that the MUI, and
the language support contained therein, is a part of
the SOFTWARE, (B) you only use the MUI with the SOFTWARE,
and (C) you comply with all of the other terms and
conditions of this EULA.

* Operating System Selection. Manufacturer may have elected
to provide you with a selection of Microsoft operating
system software for the COMPUTER. If the SOFTWARE
PRODUCT includes more than one (1) Microsoft operating
system ("Microsoft OS"), you are licensed to use only
one of the Microsoft OS selections provided. As part
of the setup process for the SOFTWARE you will be given
a one-time option to select one (1) Microsoft OS. Upon
selection, the one Microsoft OS selected by you will
be set up on the COMPUTER, and the other Microsoft OS(s)
not selected by you will be automatically and permanently
deleted from the hard disk of the COMPUTER.

* Additional Software/Services. The terms of this EULA apply
to Microsoft updates, supplements, add-on components,
or Internet-based services components of the SOFTWARE
("Supplemental Components") that Manufacturer, MS,
Microsoft Corporation or their subsidiaries may provide
to you or make available to you after the date you obtain
your initial copy of the SOFTWARE, unless other terms
are provided along with such Supplemental Components.
If other terms are not provided along with such
Supplemental Components and the Supplemental Components
are provided to you by MS, Microsoft Corporation or a
Microsoft subsidiary then you will be licensed by such
entity under the same terms and conditions of this EULA,
except that the MS, Microsoft Corporation or Microsoft
subsidiary entity providing the Supplemental Components
will be the licensor with respect to such components
in lieu of the "Manufacturer" for the purposes of the
EULA, including, without limitation the Limited Warranty
Appendix. THE LIMITED WARRANTY (IF
ANY) INCLUDED WITH OR IN THIS EULA
APPLIES TO SUCH SUPPLEMENTAL
COMPONENTS (IF ANY) PROVIDED THAT
YOU LICENSED THE SUPPLEMENTAL
COMPONENTS WITHIN THE ORIGINAL TERM
OF THE LIMITED WARRANTY. HOWEVER,
PROVISION OF THE SUPPLEMENTAL
COMPONENTS DOES NOT EXTEND THE TIME
PERIOD FOR WHICH THE LIMITED WARRANTY
IS PROVIDED. ALL OTHER DISCLAIMERS,
EXCLUSIONS OF DAMAGES, AND
LIMITATIONS OF LIABILITY AND REMEDIES
SET FORTH IN THIS EULA SHALL APPLY
TO SUCH SUPPLEMENTAL COMPONENTS.

Manufacturer, MS, Microsoft Corporation and their
subsidiaries reserves the right to discontinue any
Microsoft Internet-based services provided to you or
made available to you through the use of the SOFTWARE.


This EULA does not grant you any rights to use the Windows
Media Format Software Development Kit ("WMFSDK")
components contained in the SOFTWARE to develop a
software application that uses Windows Media technology.
If you wish to use the WMFSDK to develop such an
application, visit
http://msdn.microsoft.com/workshop/imedia/windowsmedia/sdk/wmsdk.asp,
accept a separate license for the WMFSDK, download the
appropriate WMFSDK, and install it on your system.

* Limitations on Reverse Engineering, Decompilation and
Disassembly. You may not reverse engineer, decompile,
or disassemble the SOFTWARE, except and only to the
extent that such activity is expressly permitted by
applicable law notwithstanding this limitation.

* Separation of Components. The SOFTWARE is licensed as a
single product. Its component parts may not be separated
for use on more than one computer.

* Single EULA. The package for the SOFTWARE may contain
multiple versions of this EULA, such as multiple
translations and/or multiple media versions (e.g., in
the user documentation and in the software). In this
case, you are only licensed to use one (1) copy of the
SOFTWARE.

* Termination. Without prejudice to any other rights,
Manufacturer or MS may cancel this EULA if you do not
abide by the terms and conditions contained herein.
In such event, you must destroy all copies of the
SOFTWARE and all of its component parts.

* Trademarks. This EULA does not grant you any rights in
connection with any trademarks or service marks of
Manufacturer, MS or its suppliers (including Microsoft
Corporation).

3. UPGRADES. If the SOFTWARE is labeled as an upgrade, you must
be properly licensed to use a product identified by MS or
Microsoft Corporation as being eligible for the upgrade in
order to use the SOFTWARE ("Eligible Product"). For the
purpose of upgrade(s) only, "HARDWARE" shall mean the
computer system or computer system component with which you
received the Eligible Product. SOFTWARE labeled as an
upgrade replaces and/or supplements (and may disable, if
upgrading a Microsoft software product) the Eligible
Product which came with the HARDWARE. After upgrading, you
may no longer use the SOFTWARE that formed the basis for
your upgrade eligibility (unless otherwise provided). You
may use the resulting upgraded product only in accordance
with the terms of this EULA and only with the HARDWARE. If
the SOFTWARE is an upgrade of a component of a package of
software programs that you licensed as a single product,
the SOFTWARE may be used and transferred only as part of
that single product package and may not be separated for
use on more than one computer.

4. INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY RIGHTS. All title
and intellectual property rights in and to the SOFTWARE
(including but not limited to any images, photographs,
animations, video, audio, music, text and "applets,"
incorporated into the SOFTWARE), the accompanying printed
materials, and any copies of the SOFTWARE, are owned by
MS or its suppliers (including Microsoft Corporation). The
SOFTWARE is licensed, not sold. All title and intellectual
property rights in and to the content that is not contained
in the SOFTWARE, but which may be accessed through use of
the SOFTWARE is the property of the respective content
owner and may be protected by applicable copyright or other
intellectual property laws and treaties. Use of any on-
line services which may be accessed through the SOFTWARE
may be governed by the respective terms of use relating to
such services. If this SOFTWARE contains documentation
that is provided only in electronic form, you may print one
copy of such electroni documentation. You may not copy
the printed materials accompanying the SOFTWARE.

5. PRODUCT SUPPORT. SOFTWARE support for the
SOFTWARE is not provided by MS, Microsoft Corporation, or
their affiliates or subsidiaries. For product support,
please refer to Manufacturer's support number provided in
the documentation for the HARDWARE. Should you have any
questions concerning this EULA, or if you desire to contact
Manufacturer for any other reason, please refer to the
address provided in the documentation for the HARDWARE.

6. EXPORT RESTRICTIONS. You acknowledge
that the SOFTWARE is subject to U.S. export jurisdiction.
You agree to comply with all applicable international and
national laws that apply to the products, including the U.S.
Export Administration Regulations, as well as end-user,
end-use and destination restrictions issued by U.S. and
other governments. For additional information, see
http://www.microsoft.com/exporting/.

7. U.S. GOVERNMENT LICENSE RIGHTS. All
SOFTWARE PRODUCT provided to the U.S.
Government pursuant to solicitations issued on or after
December 1, 1995 is provided with the commercial rights and
restrictions described elsewhere herein. All SOFTWARE
provided to the U.S. Government pursuant to solicitations
issued prior to December 1, 1995 is provided with
RESTRICTED RIGHTS as provided for in
FAR, 48 CFR 52.227-14 (JUNE 1987) or FAR, 48 CFR 252.227-
7013 (OCT 1988), as applicable.

8. ADDITIONAL PROVISIONS. FOR THE LIMITED
WARRANTIES, LIMITATION OF LIABILITY,
AND OTHER SPECIAL PROVISIONS, PLEASE
REFER TO THE ADDITIONAL PROVISIONS
PROVIDED BELOW AND/OR OTHERWISE WITH
THE SOFTWARE. SUCH LIMITED WARRANTIES,
LIMITATION OF LIABILITY AND SPECIAL
PROVISIONS ARE AN INTEGRAL PART OF THIS
EULA.


APPENDIX

WARRANTY AND SPECIAL PROVISIONS FOR
AUSTRALIA, NEW ZEALAND OR PAPUA NEW GUINEA

EXPRESS LIMITED WARRANTY


CONSUMER RIGHTS. Consumers may have the benefit of certain
rights or remedies pursuant to the Trade Practices Act and
similar state and territory laws in Australia or the Consumer
Guarantees Act in New Zealand, in respect of which certain
liability may not be excluded.

LIMITED EXPRESS WARRANTY. Manufacturer
warrants that: (a) the SOFTWARE will perform substantially in
accordance with the accompanying Product Manual(s) for a period
of 90 days from the date of receipt; and (b) any Microsoft
hardware accompanying SOFTWARE will be free from defects in
materials and workmanship under normal use and service for a
period of 1 year from the date of receipt.

CUSTOMER REMEDIES. To the maximum extent permitted under
applicable law, Manufacturer's and its supplier's entire
liability and your exclusive remedy under the express warranty
is, at Manufacturer's option, either (a) return of the
price paid; or (b) repair or replacement of the SOFTWARE or
Microsoft hardware which does not meet the warranty and which is
returned to Manufacturer with a copy of your receipt. The
warranty is void if failure of the SOFTWARE or Microsoft hardware
has resulted from accident, abuse or misapplication. Any
replacement SOFTWARE and/or Microsoft hardware will be warranted
for the remainder of the original warranty period or 30 days,
whichever is longer.

LIMITATION OF LIABILITY. To the maximum
extent permitted by applicable law, any conditions or warranties
imposed or implied by law are hereby excluded. Consumers may
nevertheless have the benefit of certain rights or remedies
pursuant to the Trade Practices Act and similar state and
territory laws in Australia or the Consumer Guarantees Act in New
Zealand, in respect of which liability may not be excluded.
Insofar as such liability may not be excluded, then to the
maximum extent permitted by law, such liability is limited, at
the exclusive option of Manufacturer, to either (a) replacement
of the SOFTWARE (and any accompanying hardware supplied); or (b)
correction of defects in the SOFTWARE; or (c) payment of the cost
of having defects in the SOFTWARE (and any accompanying hardware
supplied).

EXCLUSION OF LIABILITY/DAMAGES. The
following is without prejudice to any rights you may have at law
which cannot legally be excluded or restricted. You acknowledge
that no promise, representation, warranty or undertaking has been
made or given by Manufacturer and/or Microsoft Corporation (or
related company of either) to any person or company on its behalf
in relation to the profitability of or any other consequences or
benefits to be obtained from the delivery or use of the SOFTWARE
and any accompanying Microsoft hardware, software, manuals or
written materials. You have relied upon your own skill and
judgement in deciding to acquire the SOFTWARE and any
accompanying hardware, manuals and written materials for use by
you. Except as and to the extent provided in this agreement,
neither Manufacturer and/or Microsoft Corporation (or related
company of either) will in any circumstances be liable for any
other damages whatsoever (including, without limitation, damages
for loss of business, business interruption, loss of business
information or other indirect or consequential loss) arising out
of the use or inability to use or supply or non-supply of the
SOFTWARE and any accompanying hardware and written materials.
Manufacturer's and/or Microsoft Corporation (or related company
of either) total liability under any provision of this agreement
is in any case limited to the amount actually paid by you for the
SOFTWARE and/or Microsoft hardware.

This agreement is governed by the laws of New South Wales,
Australia or, where supplies are made in New Zealand, by the laws
of New Zealand.


APPENDIX

WARRANTY AND SPECIAL PROVISIONS FOR
ENGLAND, SCOTLAND, WALES AND IRELAND

LIMITED WARRANTY


LIMITED WARRANTY. Manufacturer warrants that (a) the
SOFTWARE will perform substantially in accordance
with the accompanying written materials for a period of
ninety (90) days from the date of receipt, and (b) any
Microsoft hardware accompanying the SOFTWARE will be free
from defects in materials and workmanship under normal use
and service for a period of one (1) year from the date of
receipt. Any implied warranties on the SOFTWARE and
Microsoft hardware are limited to ninety (90) days and one (1)
year, respectively. Some states/jurisdictions do not allow
limitations on duration of an implied warranty, so the above
limitation may not apply to you.

CUSTOMER REMEDIES. Manufacturer's and its suppliers' entire
liability and your exclusive remedy shall be, at Manufacturer's
option, either (a) return of the price paid, or (b) repair or
replacement of the SOFTWARE or hardware that does not meet this
Limited Warranty and which is returned to Manufacturer with a
copy of your receipt. This Limited Warranty is void if failure
of the SOFTWARE or hardware has resulted from accident, abuse, or
misapplication. Any replacement SOFTWARE or hardware will be
warranted for the remainder of the original warranty period or
thirty (30) days, whichever is longer.

NO OTHER WARRANTIES. To the maximum extent permitted by
applicable law, Manufacturer and its suppliers disclaim all other
representations, warranties, conditions or other terms, either
express or implied, including, but not limited to implied
warranties amd/or conditions of merchantability and fitness for a
particular purpose, with regard to the SOFTWARE, the accompanying
written materials, and any accompanying hardware. This limited
warranty gives you specific legal rights. You may have others
which vary from state/jurisdiction to state/jurisdiction.

NO LIABILITY FOR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES. To
the maximum extent permitted by applicable law, in no event shall
Manufacturer or its suppliers be liable for any damages
whatsoever (including without limitation, direct or indirect
damages for personal injury, loss of business profits, business
interruption, loss of business information, or any other
pecuniary loss) arising out of the use of or inability to use
this product, even if Manufacturer has been advised of the
possibility of such damages. In any case, Manufacturer's and its
suppliers' entire liability under any provision of this agreement
shall be limited to the amount actually paid by you for the
SOFTWARE and/or Microsoft hardware. Because some states
/jurisdictions do not allow the exclusion or limitation of
liability for consequential or incidental damages, the above
limitation may not apply to you.

SPECIAL PROVISIONS

Reverse Engineering: If you acquired the SOFTWARE in the
European Community, you may not reverse engineer, decompile, or
dissassemble the SOFTWARE except to the extent and for the
express purposes authorized by applicable law.



This Software License Agreement is governed by the laws
of England.


APPENDIX

WARRANTY AND SPECIAL PROVISIONS FOR
CANADA

LIMITED WARRANTY


LIMITED WARRANTY. Manufacturer warrants that (a) the
SOFTWARE will perform substantially in accordance
with the accompanying written materials for a period of
ninety (90) days from the date of receipt, and (b) any
Microsoft hardware accompanying the SOFTWARE will be free
from defects in materials and workmanship under normal use
and service for a period of one (1) year from the date of
receipt. Any implied warranties or conditions on the
SOFTWARE and Microsoft hardware are limited to ninety (90) days
and one (1) year, respectively. Some states/jurisdictions do not
allow limitations on duration of an implied warranty, so the
above limitation may not apply to you.

CUSTOMER REMEDIES. Manufacturer's and its suppliers' entire
liability and your exclusive remedy shall be, at Manufacturer's
option, either (a) return of the price paid, or (b) repair or
replacement of the SOFTWARE or hardware that does not meet this
Limited Warranty and which is returned to Manufacturer with a
copy of your receipt. This Limited Warranty is void if failure
of the SOFTWARE or hardware has resulted from accident, abuse, or
misapplication. Any replacement SOFTWARE or hardware will be
warranted for the remainder of the original warranty period or
thirty (30) days, whichever is longer.

NO OTHER WARRANTIES. To the maximum extent permitted by
applicable law, Manufacturer and its suppliers disclaim all other
warranties, either express or implied, including, but not limited
to implied warranties of merchantability and fitness for a
particular purpose, with regard to the SOFTWARE, the accompanying
written materials, and any accompanying hardware. This limited
warranty gives you specific legal rights. You may have others
which vary from state/jurisdiction to state/jurisdiction.

NO LIABILITY FOR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES. To
the maximum extent permitted by applicable law, in no event shall
Manufacturer or its suppliers be liable for any damages
whatsoever (including without limitation, direct or indirect
damages for personal injury, loss of business profits, business
interruption, loss of business information, or any other
pecuniary loss) arising out of the use of or inability to use
this product, even if Manufacturer has been advised of the
possibility of such damages. In any case, Manufacturer's and its
suppliers' entire liability under any provision of this agreement
shall be limited to the amount actually paid by you for the
SOFTWARE and/or Microsoft hardware. Because some states
/jurisdictions do not allow the exclusion or limitation of
liability for consequential or incidental damages, the above
limitation may not apply to you.


This Software License Agreement is governed by the laws of the
Province of Ontario, Canada. Each of the parties hereto
irrevocably attorns to the jurisdiction of the courts of the
Province of Ontario and further agrees to commence any litigation
which may arise hereunder in the courts located in the Judicial
District of York, Province of Ontario.


ANNEXE

GARANTIE ET DISPOSITIONS PARTICULIÈRES
POUR LE CANADA

GARANTIE LIMITÉE


Si vous vous êtes procuré ce produit Microsoft(r) ou ce matériel
Microsoft(r) au CANADA, la garantie suivante s'adresse à vous.

GARANTIE LIMITÉE. Le Fabricant garantit que (a) la performance
du LOGICIEL sera substantiellement en conformité avec les
documents écrits qui l'accompagnent pour une période de quatr
e-vingt-dix (90) jours à compter de la date de réception, et que
(b) tout matériel de Microsoft fourni avec le LOGICIEL sera
exempt de défaut de matière première ou de vice de fabrication
dans des conditions normales d'utilisation et d'entretien pour
une période d'un (1) an à compter de la date de réception.
Toutes garanties ou conditions implicites concernant le LOGICIEL
et le matériel Microsoft sont limitées à quatre-vingt-dix (90)
jours et un (1) an, respectivement.

RECOURS DU CLIENT. La seule obligation du Fabricant et de ses
fournisseurs et votre recours exclusif seront, au choix du
Fabricant, soit (a) le remboursement du prix payé ou (b) la
réparation ou le remplacement du LOGICIEL ou du matériel qui
n'est pas conforme à la Garantie limitée et qui est retourné au
Fabricant avec une copie de votre reçu. Cette Garantie limitée
est nulle si la défectuosité du LOGICIEL ou du matériel est
causée par un accident, un traitement abusif ou une mauvaise
application. Tout LOGICIEL ou matériel de remplacement sera
garanti pour le reste de la période de garantie initiale ou pour
trente (30) jours, selon laquelle de ces deux périodes est la
plus longue.

EXCLUSION DE TOUTE AUTRE GARANTIE. Selon la
portée maximale autorisée par la loi applicable, le Fabricant et
ses fournisseurs renoncent à toutes autres garanties ou
conditions, expresses ou implicites, y compris mais ne se
limitant pas aux garanties implicites de la qualité marchande ou
un usage particulier en ce qui concerne le LOGICIEL, la
documentation écrite et tout matériel qui l'accompagnent. Cette
garantie limitée vous accorde des droits spécifiques reconnus par
la loi.

ABSENCE DE RESPONSABILITÉ POUR LES DOMMAGES
INDIRECTS. Selon la portée maximale autorisée par la loi
applicable, le Fabricant ou ses fournisseurs ne pourront être
tenus responsables en aucune circonstance de tous dommages quels
qu'ils soient (y compris mais non de façon limitative les
dommages directs ou indirects causés par des lésions corporelles,
la perte de bénéfices commerciaux, l'interruption des affaires,
la perte d'information commerciale ou toute autre perte
pécuniaire) découlant de l'utilisation ou de l'impossibilité
d'utilisation de ce produit, et ce même si le Fabricant a été
avisé de l'éventualité de tels dommages. En tout état de cause,
la seule responsabilité du Fabricant et de ses fournisseurs en
vertu de toute disposition de cette Convention se limitera au
montant que vous aurez effectivement payé pour l'achat du
LOGICIEL et/ou du matériel Microsoft.

La présente Convention de droits d'utilisation de logiciel est
régie par les lois de la province d'Ontario, Canada. Chacune des
parties aux présentes reconnaît irrévocablement la compétence des
tribunaux de la province d'Ontario et consent à instituer tout
litige qui pourrait découler des présentes auprès des tribunaux
situés dans le district judiciaire de York, province d'Ontario.


APPENDIX

WARRANTY AND SPECIAL PROVISIONS FOR
THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA AND ANY OTHER
COUNTRY

LIMITED WARRANTY


LIMITED WARRANTY. Manufacturer warrants that (a) the
SOFTWARE will perform substantially in accordance
with the accompanying written materials for a period of
ninety (90) days from the date of receipt, and (b) any
Microsoft hardware accompanying the SOFTWARE will be free
from defects in materials and workmanship under normal use
and service for a period of one (1) year from the date of
receipt. Any implied warranties on the SOFTWARE and
Microsoft hardware are limited to ninety (90) days and one (1)
year, respectively. Some states/jurisdictions do not allow
limitations on duration of an implied warranty, so the above
limitation may not apply to you.

CUSTOMER REMEDIES. Manufacturer's and its suppliers' entire
liability and your exclusive remedy shall be, at Manufacturer's
option, either (a) return of the price paid, or (b) repair or
replacement of the SOFTWARE or hardware that does not meet this
Limited Warranty and which is returned to Manufacturer with a
copy of your receipt. This Limited Warranty is void if failure
of the SOFTWARE or hardware has resulted from accident, abuse, or
misapplication. Any replacement SOFTWARE or hardware will be
warranted for the remainder of the original warranty period or
thirty (30) days, whichever is longer.

NO OTHER WARRANTIES. To the maximum extent permitted by
applicable law, Manufacturer and its suppliers disclaim all other
warranties, either express or implied, including, but not limited
to implied warranties of merchantability and fitness for a
particular purpose, with regard to the SOFTWARE, the accompanying
written materials, and any accompanying hardware. This limited
warranty gives you specific legal rights. You may have others
which vary from state/jurisdiction to state/jurisdiction.

NO LIABILITY FOR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES. To
the maximum extent permitted by applicable law, in no event shall
Manufacturer or its suppliers be liable for any damages
whatsoever (including without limitation, special, incidental,
consequential, or indirect damages for personal injury, loss of
business profits, business interruption, loss of business
information, or any other pecuniary loss) arising out of the use
of or inability to use this product, even if Manufacturer has
been advised of the possibility of such damages. In any case,
Manufacturer's and its suppliers' entire liability under any
provision of this agreement shall be limited to the amount
actually paid by you for the SOFTWARE and/or Microsoft hardware.
Because some states/jurisdictions do not allow the exclusion or
limitation of liability for consequential or incidental damages,
the above limitation may not apply to you.


SPECIAL PROVISIONS

U.S. GOVERNMENT LICENSE RIGHTS. All SOFTWARE
provided to the U.S. Government pursuant to solicitations issued
on or after December 1, 1995 is provided with the commercial
license rights and restrictions described in this EULA. All
SOFTWARE provided to the U.S. Government pursuant to
solicitations issued prior to December 1, 1995 is
provided with "Restricted Rights" as provided for in FAR, 48 CFR
52.227-14 (JUNE 1987) or DFAR, 48 CFR 252.227-7013 (OCT 1988),
as applicable. Manufacturer is responsible for ensuring the
SOFTWARE is marked with the "Restricted Rights Notice" or
"Restricted Rights Legend," as required. All rights not expressly
granted are reserved.

If you acquired the SOFTWARE in the United States of America,
this Software License Agreement and Warranty are governed by the
laws of the State of Washington, U.S.A. If you acquired the
SOFTWARE outside the United States of America, local law
may apply.

EULAID:WX.2_PRO_OEM_EN


--
Hermes

Here's what Forrester Research said about Microsoft and standards:


Why Microsoft "Standards" Do Not Help
They:
a.. Work only for Windows (thus leaving out all other systems that do
not run Windows and are unlikely to do so in the future)
b.. Increase Support Demands (since techies still must load, update and
maintain proprietary code on every computer)
c.. Restrict Creativity (since Bill Gates' troops are defining the
generic software layer, MS can tailor the interface to match its own
technology biases -- and shut out competing ideas
This is hardly in the best interest of IT.
 
M

Michael Stevens

hermes said:
While listening to the voices in their head blather on endlessly about
inspecific gibberish, David typed:
@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl:


Your mentality shows with the above, you are trying to make a
statement, but you only offend.
By opening your reply, only someone with physic skills or
previous knolodge could know doing so would condem the
respondent to
burning in hell, you do not give a choice to agree or disagree
before you declare one should burn in hell. Even [the evil in
your opinion] Microsoft gives you a choice to agree or disagree.
:cool:

--
M$'s shrink wrapped license does the same thing, doesn't it?


No, The EULA has a a way to agree or disagree with it, The "I
Agree" and " I don't Agree" buttons.


--

David

Programmers write "Help Files" for a reason. use them.

"Due to Viewer dicretion...
Graphic violence is advised"

http://www.HeroicStories.com/
http://www.thisistrue.com/


Yes, but that's not until after one purchases the shrink wrapped
package, open it, and start the install.


Printed right on the outside of the retail box it says it is licensed for
installation on one computer.

The exact wording is below.
The product uses technological measures for copy protection-you will not be
able to use the product if you do not fully comply with the product
activation procedures. Product aactivation procedures and Microsoft's
priviacy statements will be described during the launch of the product.
For installation and use on one computer(see License Agreement for license
terms). You must accept the the enclosed License Agreement before you can
use this product. If you do not accept the terms of the License Agreement,
you should promptly return the product for a refund.


--

Michael Stevens MS-MVP XP
(e-mail address removed)
http://michaelstevenstech.com
For a better newsgroup experience. Setup a newsreader.
http://michaelstevenstech.com/outlookexpressnewreader.htm
 
M

Michael Stevens

hermes said:
While listening to the voices in their head blather on endlessly about


Oh yeah, Bruce you are right! They only leave out the following:

[HTML used for emphasis]

Why exactly did the <snipped> EULA text matter if the consumer does not agree to information printed on the outside of the box; available before purchase; that states the installation and use limit is for one computer?

Limitations of the retail versions of XP as printed on the outside of the box quoted below:

The product uses technological measures for copy protection-you will not be able to use the product if you do not fully comply with the product activation procedures. Product activation procedures and Microsoft's privacy statements will be described during the launch of the product.
For installation and use on one computer(see License Agreement for license terms). You must accept the enclosed License Agreement before you can use this product. If you do not accept the terms of the License Agreement, you should promptly return the product for a refund.
--

Michael Stevens MS-MVP XP
(e-mail address removed)
http://michaelstevenstech.com
For a better newsgroup experience. Setup a newsreader.
http://michaelstevenstech.com/outlookexpressnewreader.htm
 
K

kurttrail

"By the act of scrolling this post on your computer, you agree that I am
your everlasting Lord & Saviour. Breach of this term will result in you
burning in hell for ever and ever! Amen!"

Michael said:
Printed right on the outside of the retail box it says it is licensed
for installation on one computer.

The exact wording is below.
The product uses technological measures for copy protection-you will
not be able to use the product if you do not fully comply with the
product activation procedures. Product aactivation procedures and
Microsoft's priviacy statements will be described during the launch
of the product. For installation and use on one computer(see License
Agreement for license terms). You must accept the the enclosed
License Agreement before you can use this product. If you do not
accept the terms of the License Agreement, you should promptly return
the product for a refund.

Do you accept the summary on the box, or the one hidden in the
installation process? Or MS post-EULA policies, subject to change at MS
whim, that are totally outside of any agreement?

How can you rationally justify that the EULA acceptance happens before
purchase?

You do remember that most of the tobacco companies lost, despite the
cancer warnings that were mandated by the Federal Gov't?

MS's intentions, and their copy protection doesn't give them rights to
limit an individual from 'fairly using' their legally purchased copy of
copyrighted material in the privacy of their own homes, and there is no
legal precedent to suggests otherwise. Even the DMCA protects our
rights to "fair use." "Nothing in this section shall affect rights,
remedies, limitations, or defenses to copyright infringement, including
fair use, under this title." So just because some self-interested
predatory monopoly writes something on the outside of their box, or in a
shrinkwrap license, doesn't mean it is legally enforceable on
individuals in the privacy of their own home.

And after over a decade on knowing that these shrinkwrap license terms
are being broken, but never trying to enforce that terms legally, in a
court of law, MS has effectively abandoned those usage terms!

To the open-minded people of this group:

So to this MS-SOB, accepting MS EULA happens when reading MS's summary
on the box prior to purchase! ROFL! Totally delusional!

And of course he ignores the fact that it quite legal to break any
contract, unless the other party wants to bring it to court to try to
convince a judge to redress the situation. But in over a decade since
the beginning of the Personal Computer boom, not one post-sale
shrinkwrap license usage term has ever been found in any US court of law
to be a valid "software license" term that is legally enforceable on any
private non-commercial individual. And there is absolutely no legal
precedent that even one private non-commercial individual has been
charged with, let alone convicted of, anything in regards to breaking
the usage terms of any shrinkwrap license *ever*.

It's comes down to a matter of logic, MS has no legal right to know who
buys copies of their shrinkwrap licensed retail software [especially if
you pay with cash], and they have no legal right to know who allegedly
accepts their retail EULAs [especially if you don't register the copy of
software with MS], so how can MS ever legally enforce their post-sale
usage terms in a court of law on any legally-anonymous private
individual? Obviously, MS can't. That's why they dreamed up PA, to
trick people in believing what they cannot logically prove in a real
court of law.

I back up my opinions with laws, and court decisions, [see
http://microscum.com/mmpafaq/] can anyone of the MicroZealots do the
same to back up their opinion that MS has the right to know and control
how you use the legally purchased copies of software in the privacy of
your home? Obviously, the MicroSycophants can't. After 2 years of
arguing this out in this newsgroup, not one of them can come up with any
law or court decision to back up the legal enforceability of MS's EULA
usage terms on any private individual, as I have to back up my beliefs.

It comes down to deciding what you believe is true for you, MS's EULA
FUD, or the laws & court decisions of the United States of America?

"*Any* *individual* *may* *reproduce* *a* *copyrighted* *work* *for* *a*
'*fair* *use*'; *the* *copyright* *owner* *does* *not* *possess* *the*
*exclusive* *right* *to* *such* *a* *use*." - U. S. Supreme Court.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei!"
 
I

Ian Merrithew

Limitations of the retail versions of XP as printed on the outside of
the box quoted below:

Nobody else answered this question yesterday, so I'll try it again today:

What if you purchase it second-hand, preinstalled on a computer, from
someone who no longer has the box? Now the new end-user will be using
the software without having seen the box or the installation dialogue;
conceivably, never having seen the EULA at all.

Now how would MS claim the EULA is binding on that end-user?
 
B

Bruce Chambers

Greetings --

Who or what is "Forrester Research" and why should be care what
they say? They're certainly quite clueless about life in the "IT
world," if that's what they really said. Points (b) and (c), at
least, are pure fiction.

Bruce Chambers

--
Help us help you:



You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on
having both at once. -- RAH
 
K

kurttrail

"By the act of scrolling this post on your computer, you agree that I am
your everlasting Lord & Saviour. Breach of this term will result in you
burning in hell for ever and ever! Amen!"

Bruce said:
Greetings --

Who or what is "Forrester Research" and why should be care what
they say? They're certainly quite clueless about life in the "IT
world," if that's what they really said. Points (b) and (c), at
least, are pure fiction.

Bruce Chambers

http://www.forrester.com/

http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=Forrester+Research&sa=N&tab=wn

http://www.emediawire.com/releases/2003/10/prweb86701.htm

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei!"
 
D

David

But hides most of the agreement from the view of the user. My updated
agreement is in full view of the End User upon opening my post, and the
physical act of scrolling is just like hitting an agree button. No one
forces you to scroll down my post. It is totally your choice.

Wrong again. There is no chance to read your "Contract" before opening
it. Ther for, you can't agree to it. You can read the EULA before you
press the "Agree" button.

Yu will probably try to argue that you didn't get a chance to agree to
EULA before opening the Windows Package. But, That is irrelevant. The
EULA is the contract, and you can read it before agreeing.

--

David

Programmers write "Help Files" for a reason. use them.

"Due to Viewer dicretion...
Graphic violence is advised"

http://www.HeroicStories.com/
http://www.thisistrue.com/
 
D

David

Playing along -- is the former sufficient to prove consent to enter
into a binding contract? What if it's a minor who clicks "I Agree",

Parents are responsible for the actions of thier children. If a child
installs Windows without parental permission, and the parents does not
agree with the EULA. Then they are required to remove Windows
for instance? Or a neighbour who installs the software for you?

Again, If you don't aggree. You are required to remove Windows.

Or
if the computer is purchased second-hand with the software already
installed (ahhh, there's a good one; no "I Don't Agree" option
there!)?

Then you have agreed by purchaing the computer with Windows installed.
If you don't agree. Buy a system without Windows, or remove the OS.
And that's just off the top of my head. Any good lawyer can probably
come up with several more to contest consent. Now what does Microsoft
do to prove consent?

Proof of consent is using Windows


--

David

Programmers write "Help Files" for a reason. use them.

"Due to Viewer dicretion...
Graphic violence is advised"

http://www.HeroicStories.com/
http://www.thisistrue.com/
 
D

David

While listening to the voices in their head blather on endlessly about
inspecific gibberish, David typed:
:: @tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl:
::
::
::::: Your mentality shows with the above, you are trying to make a
::::: statement, but you only offend.
::::: By opening your reply, only someone with physic skills or
::::: previous knolodge could know doing so would condem the respondent
::::: to burning in hell, you do not give a choice to agree or disagree
::::: before you declare one should burn in hell. Even [the evil in
::::: your opinion] Microsoft gives you a choice to agree or disagree.
::::: :cool:
:::::
::::: --
::: M$'s shrink wrapped license does the same thing, doesn't it?
:::
::
:: No, The EULA has a a way to agree or disagree with it, The "I
:: Agree" and " I don't Agree" buttons.
::
::
:: --
::
:: David
::
:: Programmers write "Help Files" for a reason. use them.
::
:: "Due to Viewer dicretion...
:: Graphic violence is advised"
::
:: http://www.HeroicStories.com/
:: http://www.thisistrue.com/


Yes, but that's not until after one purchases the shrink wrapped
package, open it, and start the install. One loses any chance of
returning it to the store from where it was purchased after breaking
the shrink wrap.


Call a lawyer. Microsoft has an agreement with thier retailers that
says they will accept a returned package from a un-satifified customer,
or Microsoft is responsable for the refund.

It can be argued that buy both the retailer and Microsoft refusing the
honor the return commitment, They have broken the contract and it is now
Null & Void. but, You would need to get a written proof from both that
they won't accept the return.



--

David

Programmers write "Help Files" for a reason. use them.

"Due to Viewer dicretion...
Graphic violence is advised"

http://www.HeroicStories.com/
http://www.thisistrue.com/
 
K

kurttrail

"By the act of scrolling this post on your computer, you agree that I am
your everlasting Lord & Saviour. Breach of this term will result in you
burning in hell for ever and ever! Amen!"
Wrong again. There is no chance to read your "Contract" before
opening it. Ther for, you can't agree to it. You can read the EULA
before you press the "Agree" button.

Yu will probably try to argue that you didn't get a chance to agree
to EULA before opening the Windows Package. But, That is irrelevant.
The EULA is the contract, and you can read it before agreeing.

David, you are brain damaged.

"By the act of scrolling this post on your computer . . . ."

Nothing is forcing you to scroll after reading it, except your desire to
accept me into your heart as your personal saviour! ;-)

--
Kisses!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei!"
 
D

Daniel L. Belton

David said:
Wrong again. There is no chance to read your "Contract" before opening
it. Ther for, you can't agree to it. You can read the EULA before you
press the "Agree" button.

Yu will probably try to argue that you didn't get a chance to agree to
EULA before opening the Windows Package. But, That is irrelevant. The
EULA is the contract, and you can read it before agreeing.

Actually, there was a case not too long ago where someone got a full
refund on the computer they purchased because they could not do anything
with it until they "agreed" to the EULA. The EULA happened to be a file
on the hard drive, and was not even accessible until after the person
agreed to it.
 
M

Michael Stevens

Looks like all your posts are now self plonking. Can't see the reply and
won't scroll. You couldn't enforce it, but I won't agree to your terms and I
doubt I am missing anything of importance. :cool:

--

Michael Stevens MS-MVP XP
(e-mail address removed)
http://michaelstevenstech.com
For a better newsgroup experience. Setup a newsreader.
http://michaelstevenstech.com/outlookexpressnewreader.htm
kurttrail said:
"By the act of scrolling this post on your computer, you agree that I
am your everlasting Lord & Saviour. Breach of this term will result
in you burning in hell for ever and ever! Amen!"

Michael said:
Printed right on the outside of the retail box it says it is licensed
for installation on one computer.

The exact wording is below.
The product uses technological measures for copy protection-you will
not be able to use the product if you do not fully comply with the
product activation procedures. Product aactivation procedures and
Microsoft's priviacy statements will be described during the launch
of the product. For installation and use on one computer(see License
Agreement for license terms). You must accept the the enclosed
License Agreement before you can use this product. If you do not
accept the terms of the License Agreement, you should promptly return
the product for a refund.

Do you accept the summary on the box, or the one hidden in the
installation process? Or MS post-EULA policies, subject to change at
MS whim, that are totally outside of any agreement?

How can you rationally justify that the EULA acceptance happens before
purchase?

You do remember that most of the tobacco companies lost, despite the
cancer warnings that were mandated by the Federal Gov't?

MS's intentions, and their copy protection doesn't give them rights to
limit an individual from 'fairly using' their legally purchased copy
of copyrighted material in the privacy of their own homes, and there
is no legal precedent to suggests otherwise. Even the DMCA protects
our rights to "fair use." "Nothing in this section shall affect
rights, remedies, limitations, or defenses to copyright infringement,
including fair use, under this title." So just because some
self-interested predatory monopoly writes something on the outside of
their box, or in a shrinkwrap license, doesn't mean it is legally
enforceable on individuals in the privacy of their own home.

And after over a decade on knowing that these shrinkwrap license terms
are being broken, but never trying to enforce that terms legally, in a
court of law, MS has effectively abandoned those usage terms!

To the open-minded people of this group:

So to this MS-SOB, accepting MS EULA happens when reading MS's summary
on the box prior to purchase! ROFL! Totally delusional!

And of course he ignores the fact that it quite legal to break any
contract, unless the other party wants to bring it to court to try to
convince a judge to redress the situation. But in over a decade since
the beginning of the Personal Computer boom, not one post-sale
shrinkwrap license usage term has ever been found in any US court of
law to be a valid "software license" term that is legally enforceable
on any private non-commercial individual. And there is absolutely no
legal precedent that even one private non-commercial individual has
been charged with, let alone convicted of, anything in regards to
breaking the usage terms of any shrinkwrap license *ever*.

It's comes down to a matter of logic, MS has no legal right to know
who buys copies of their shrinkwrap licensed retail software
[especially if you pay with cash], and they have no legal right to
know who allegedly accepts their retail EULAs [especially if you
don't register the copy of software with MS], so how can MS ever
legally enforce their post-sale usage terms in a court of law on any
legally-anonymous private individual? Obviously, MS can't. That's
why they dreamed up PA, to trick people in believing what they cannot
logically prove in a real court of law.

I back up my opinions with laws, and court decisions, [see
http://microscum.com/mmpafaq/] can anyone of the MicroZealots do the
same to back up their opinion that MS has the right to know and
control how you use the legally purchased copies of software in the
privacy of your home? Obviously, the MicroSycophants can't. After 2
years of arguing this out in this newsgroup, not one of them can come
up with any law or court decision to back up the legal enforceability
of MS's EULA usage terms on any private individual, as I have to back
up my beliefs.

It comes down to deciding what you believe is true for you, MS's EULA
FUD, or the laws & court decisions of the United States of America?

"*Any* *individual* *may* *reproduce* *a* *copyrighted* *work* *for*
*a* '*fair* *use*'; *the* *copyright* *owner* *does* *not* *possess*
*the* *exclusive* *right* *to* *such* *a* *use*." - U. S. Supreme
Court.
 

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