Legality of OEM Win XP 1-2 CPU

  • Thread starter Thread starter Ashley
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Bruce Chambers said:
Greetings --

You're thanking Kurt for deliberately misleading you? While we're
at it, I've some beachfront property in Nevada I'm trying to sell.

Do you realize that all Kurt did was quote one sentence, taken
completely out of context, from a court decision that have absolutely
nothing to do with computer software? The case was about television
and motion picture studios trying to prevent Sony from marketing a
video recorder.

Yes, I realize that. However, the concept, as I've been told by a copyright
attorney (wife of one of my bookkeeping clients btw), applies. As long as I
don't copy or distribute the software, and only use it for my personal use,
then I'm within my legal rights. Hence my issue with calling the
installation of a privately purchased, not for commercial, OS not illegal in
the true sense of the word. Unethical in MS's eyes, yes.
 
Bruce Chambers said:
Greetings --

Ah, yes. The much-ballyhoo-ed "Fair Use" argument. This is
nothing more than a red herring that isn't even applicable in the case
of making unauthorized copies of software for daily use, either
personal or commercial. Specifically:

How is using the same copy, a second time, making an unauthorized second
copy?
You might also try actually reading the law, though it won't
support your position:

As I stated in anothe reply to you a copyright attorney is who told me of
this. It came up while I was meeting one of my clients, her husband, in his
store, and he was complaining about problems with his OS and said he liked
the XP on his wife's machine better.

Fact is that most software companies don't try to limit people to this by
making them buy 3 separate cds or licenses if they have 3 computers in their
home. Its assinine IMO. That's not to say that I don't respect the EULA or
MS's right to try and place this restriction on people but I do think its
unfair. I still don't believe that, in a court of law MS v Jane Doe, that
MS would win because Jane Doe installed XP Home on two computers in her
house.
 
Before the MVP (M$ Victim Poster) Hermes responded, kurttrail typed:
What theft?

It's the brainwashed delusions of the Micro$heep, this "theft" they speak
of.
You are talking about for a business use. Private non-commercial
Individuals have "fair use" rights that the copyright owner can't
shrink-wrap license away.

MS's EULA is a perfectly valid commercial use contract, but when it comes to
the private non-commercial use of legally purchased software the copyright
owner doesn't possess the right to limit an individuals "fair use" of their
copy of copyrighted material.

"Any individual may reproduce a copyrighted work for a "fair use"; the
copyright owner does not possess the exclusive right to such a use." -
http://laws.findlaw.com/us/464/417.html

And I'm really looking forward to the tribute to Bruce you speak of
putting up on your site Kurt. :)

--
hermes
DRM sux! Treacherous Computing kills our virtual civil liberties!
http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rja14/tcpa-faq.html

Windows XP crashed.
I am the Blue Screen of Death.
No one hears your screams.

Yesterday it worked.
Today it is not working.
Windows is like that.
 
Before the MVP (M$ Victim Poster) Hermes responded, Tee typed:
How is using the same copy, a second time, making an unauthorized second
copy?

Its not. That is like saying putting installation files on a server, then
keeping the installation media/CD intact in storage for safekeeping is
making a second unauthorized copy.
As I stated in anothe reply to you a copyright attorney is who told me of
this. It came up while I was meeting one of my clients, her husband, in his
store, and he was complaining about problems with his OS and said he liked
the XP on his wife's machine better.

Fact is that most software companies don't try to limit people to this by
making them buy 3 separate cds or licenses if they have 3 computers in their
home. Its assinine IMO. That's not to say that I don't respect the EULA or
MS's right to try and place this restriction on people but I do think its
unfair. I still don't believe that, in a court of law MS v Jane Doe, that
MS would win because Jane Doe installed XP Home on two computers in her
house.

M$ has yet to even try to enforce it in a court of law. I eagerly await
the day this happens.

--
hermes
DRM sux! Treacherous Computing kills our virtual civil liberties!
http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rja14/tcpa-faq.html

Windows XP crashed.
I am the Blue Screen of Death.
No one hears your screams.

Yesterday it worked.
Today it is not working.
Windows is like that.
 
Greetings --

Tee said:
Fact is that most software companies don't try to limit people to this by
making them buy 3 separate cds or licenses if they have 3 computers in their
home.

Based on this assertion, I can only conclude that you've very,
very limited experience in purchasing software, and have _never_ read
the license agreements accompanying those products you have purchased.
Real life experience in the IT community proves quite the opposite, I
assure you. There are very, very few successful commercial software
manufacturers who do _not_ have restrictive licensing.

That's not to say that I don't respect the EULA or
MS's right to try and place this restriction on people but I do think its
unfair.

So which is it? Does Microsoft have the right to determine how it
wants to market and license it's own product, or do they not? You
cannot have it both ways. And you cannot very well respect the EULA
if you're publicly advising people to go ahead and violate it, thereby
breaking, until a court determines otherwise, both copyright law and
contract law.
I still don't believe that, in a court of law MS v Jane Doe, that
MS would win because Jane Doe installed XP Home on two computers in her
house.

Let us know when you get the courage to take Microsoft to court,
especially as you claim to have a copyright attorney on your side,
because their license and product activation violate your "rights."
We're all waiting with bated breath.


Bruce Chambers
--
Help us help you:



You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on
having both at once. - RAH
 
Before the MVP (M$ Victim Poster) Hermes responded, Bruce Chambers typed:
Greetings --



Based on this assertion, I can only conclude that you've very,
very limited experience in purchasing software, and have _never_ read
the license agreements accompanying those products you have purchased.
Real life experience in the IT community proves quite the opposite, I
assure you. There are very, very few successful commercial software
manufacturers who do _not_ have restrictive licensing.

Ristrictive licensing, yes - One install per copy or CD and not allowed to
copy the CD for archival purposes, no.
So which is it? Does Microsoft have the right to determine how it
wants to market and license it's own product, or do they not?

They have yet to determine this in a court of law. Have they really
decided? That has yet to be seen. They never enforced it in the early
days, and their attempts now are weak at best.

You
cannot have it both ways. And you cannot very well respect the EULA
if you're publicly advising people to go ahead and violate it, thereby
breaking, until a court determines otherwise, both copyright law and
contract law.


Let us know when you get the courage to take Microsoft to court,
especially as you claim to have a copyright attorney on your side,
because their license and product activation violate your "rights."
We're all waiting with bated breath.


Bruce Chambers

PMSL! It is not OUR responsibility to challegne the M$ EULA in a court of
law, it is their responsibility to challenge someone who is fairly using
M$ software in their own home.

--
hermes
DRM sux! Treacherous Computing kills our virtual civil liberties!
http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rja14/tcpa-faq.html

Windows XP crashed.
I am the Blue Screen of Death.
No one hears your screams.

Yesterday it worked.
Today it is not working.
Windows is like that.
 
Ashley said:
Hey guys, does anyone know what is meant by the sticker on
OEM copies of WIN XP that say "1-2CPU"? I always have
taken it to mean that you can install that copy on up
to "2 CPU's", as in my laptop and my desktop.

You should seriously consider a career in law. (If you
haven't already done so, that is.)
 
Bruce Chambers said:
Greetings --



Based on this assertion, I can only conclude that you've very,
very limited experience in purchasing software, and have _never_ read
the license agreements accompanying those products you have purchased.
Real life experience in the IT community proves quite the opposite, I
assure you. There are very, very few successful commercial software
manufacturers who do _not_ have restrictive licensing.

Bad wording on my part. Many of the companies don't lock you out of your
software upon a reinstallation by not accepting the cd-key. I'm speaking
primarily of off-the-shelf software targeted at home pc users.
So which is it? Does Microsoft have the right to determine how it
wants to market and license it's own product, or do they not? You
cannot have it both ways.
And you cannot very well respect the EULA
if you're publicly advising people to go ahead and violate it, thereby
breaking, until a court determines otherwise, both copyright law and
contract law.

I can respect a company's rights to make their own regulations, and try to
enforce them, without liking it. I respect your right to vote in whatever
party you do regardless of whether or not I agree with your party's views.
To address your last assertion, I have never advised, recommended or hinted
that someone should violate the EULA. My disagreeing with the word
"illegal" as used originally in this thread was not, nor have my subsequent
responses, an endorsement of being unethical.

Let us know when you get the courage to take Microsoft to court,
especially as you claim to have a copyright attorney on your side,
because their license and product activation violate your "rights."
We're all waiting with bated breath.

Its not about courage or trying to prove anything. I have neither the time,
money or desire to pursue MS over this as its trivial IMO. I think some of
you get entirely too worked up over the matter. People are going to install
software they own as many times as they can until they no longer want or
need it. Its a fact of life. I've yet to meet a tech that doesn't have a
ton of burned programs for his use and a large database of cd-key/sn/reg
numbers (many burned from other people's software cds). I don't see the
point in getting nasty with someone who asks an innocent question when I'm
sure thousands, possibly millions, do this on a regular basis and don't get
slammed for it. A simple "no, that's not what it means" will suffice most
of the time IMO.
 
I read lot of those. It just proves that most companies are not
willing to stand up. Like kurt said it does not saying anything
about the home user.

Any case BSA lost? hmm?


 
I still don't believe that, in a court of law MS v Jane Doe, that
MS would win because Jane Doe installed XP Home on two computers in her
house.

I agree with that above. However, She would win on a technicality.
The technicality being Microsoft has not enforced thier own rules with
their distributors. Wal-mart sell xp-oem with just a mouse.
Microsoft also allows others to sell the oem cd with no hardware
http://www.thesoftwareguy.com


Tee said he talked to a copyright lawyer
 
Bruce said:
Greetings --

You're thanking Kurt for deliberately misleading you? While we're
at it, I've some beachfront property in Nevada I'm trying to sell.

Do you realize that all Kurt did was quote one sentence, taken
completely out of context, from a court decision that have absolutely
nothing to do with computer software? The case was about television
and motion picture studios trying to prevent Sony from marketing a
video recorder.

"Any individual may reproduce a copyrighted work for a "fair use"; the
copyright owner does not possess the exclusive right to such a use."

Where in this statement do you see the Supreme Court limiting the type
of "copyrighted work" that ANY individual may reproduced for a "fair
use?"

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei!"
 
Bruce said:
Greetings --

Ah, yes. The much-ballyhoo-ed "Fair Use" argument. This is
nothing more than a red herring that isn't even applicable in the case
of making unauthorized copies of software for daily use, either
personal or commercial. Specifically:

"Fair use is a copyright principle based on the belief that the
public is entitled to freely use *portions* of copyrighted materials
for purposes of *commentary and criticism*. For example, if you wish
to criticize a novelist, you should have the freedom to quote a
portion of the novelist's work without asking permission. Absent this
freedom, copyright owners could stifle any negative comments about
their work."
(http://fairuse.stanford.edu/Copyright_and_Fair_Use_Overview/chapter9/
index.html)
(Emphasis mine.)

"Unfortunately, if the copyright owner disagrees with your fair use
interpretation, the dispute will have to be resolved by courts or
arbitration." -
http://fairuse.stanford.edu/Copyright_and_Fair_Use_Overview/chapter9/index.html

The copyright owner doesn't get to decide what is & is not a "fair use."
"Judges use four factors in resolving fair use disputes, which are
discussed in detail below. It's important to understand that these
factors are only guidelines and the courts are free to adapt them to
particular situations on a case-by-case basis. In other words, a judge
has a great deal of freedom when making a fair use determination and
the outcome in any given case can be hard to predict.

"The four factors judges consider are:

1.. the purpose and character of your use

Private non-commercial individual use.

"In a 1994 case, the Supreme Court emphasized this first factor as being
a
primary indicator of fair use." -
http://fairuse.stanford.edu/Copyright_and_Fair_Use_Overview/chapter9/9-b.html

Of course public commercial use is sometimes legally allowable under
"fair
use." Private non-commercial use in the home would be the most flexible
form of "fair use."
2.. the nature of the copyrighted work

"In addition, you will have a stronger case of fair use if the material
copied is from a published work than an unpublished work." -
http://fairuse.stanford.edu/Copyright_and_Fair_Use_Overview/chapter9/9-b.html

Not only published, but sold in retail stores as a commercial product.
3.. the amount and substantiality of the portion taken, and

Entire. The Supreme Court in 1984, when considering the taping of
entire
movies on a VCR already concluded that individuals can copy an entire
copyrighted work as a "fair use."
4.. the effect of the use upon the potential market. "
(http://fairuse.stanford.edu/Copyright_and_Fair_Use_Overview/chapter9/
9-b.html)

Non-existent since copyright owner was paid for the original copy by the
indivdiual, thereby has already gotten a "fair return" for the creative
labor of the author(s).

"The limited scope of the copyright holder's statutory monopoly, like
the limited copyright duration required by the Constitution, reflects a
balance of competing claims upon the public interest: Creative work is
to be encouraged and rewarded, but private motivation must ultimately
serve the cause of promoting broad public availability of literature,
music, and the other arts. The immediate effect of our copyright law is
to secure a fair return for an 'author's' creative labor. But the
ultimate aim is, by this incentive, to stimulate artistic creativity for
the general public good. 'The sole interest of the United States and
the primary object in conferring the monopoly,' this Court has said,
'lie in the general benefits derived by the public from the labors of
authors' . . . . When technological change has rendered its literal
terms ambiguous, the Copyright Act must be construed in light of this
basic purpose." - http://laws.findlaw.com/us/422/151.html
Feel free to peruse the entire article, which will make it
abundantly clear that there is no way that anyone could successfully
argue that installing a second copy of an operation system onto a
second computer, without the copyright holder's express permission,
for the sole purpose of not having to buy a second license, could
possibly meet the criteria of "Fair Use."

LOL! I just did!
(Although, I suppose it is
theoretically possible that a judge might so rule, someday, but I
seriously doubt that such a ruling would withstand appeal.)

LOL! Until a greedy corporate copyright owner has the balls to sues an
individual for installing software on more than one computer,
individuals have every right to follow their own interpretation of "fair
use" when it comes to "fairly using" their copies of software.
You might also try actually reading the law, though it won't
support your position:

TITLE 17 , CHAPTER 1 , Sec. 107.
http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.html

LOL! Brucey-baby!

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei!"
 
Bruce said:
Greetings --

That's self-contradictory, I'm afraid. Violating the EULA, in
point of fact, violates both copyright law and contract law. Read for
yourself:

TITLE 17 , CHAPTER 1 , Sec. 117.
http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/117.html

It says it's not infringement, and mentions nothing about the
inviolablity of "shrink-wrap licenses."

All this says that "shrink-wrap licenses" are contracts, not that all
the terms of a "shrinkwrap license" are legally enforceable.
(Consult an attorney versed in copyright law to determine final
applicability in your specific locale.)

You should take you own advise, because there is case law that supports
that not everthing written in a shrink-wrap license is legally
enforceable.

http://www.law.unlv.edu/faculty/bam/k2001/klocek.html

http://laws.findlaw.com/2nd/017860v2.html

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei!"
 
Ashley said:
Hey guys, does anyone know what is meant by the sticker on
OEM copies of WIN XP that say "1-2CPU"? I always have
taken it to mean that you can install that copy on up
to "2 CPU's", as in my laptop and my desktop.

No - it means a single computer that has either 1 or 2 CPU chips on the
motherboard (and is for XP Pro only; XP Home only allows one chip). The
chips may be the new 'Hyperthreaded' ones that look like two independent
CPUs - but all on the same board. It does *not* refer to desktop plus
laptop - there is a concession for that for retail versions of Office,
but not for Windows
 
none said:

"Cite for me one example where MS took a *person* to court for installing
their purchased copy of Windows on more than one computer and won."

All your links cites businesses, not individual persons using software for
private non-commercial use.

Nice try at trying to FUD your way through, none-for-brains!

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei!"
 
Bruce said:
Greetings --

Oh, come on, now. Isn't this a bit like saying that murder isn't
illegal unless the murderer is captured and convicted?

No Brucey-baby. Because murder is a criminal offense. Installing software
on more than one computer is at most, either a contract dispute that can
only be adjudicated in a civil court, or civil copyright infringement.
A crime has
still been committed, whether or not the guilty party is ever brought
to justice.

There is no law that makes the installing of software on more than one
computer illegal, therefore there is no crime to be committed.
(And no, I'm _not_ equating contract violation with
murder, or civil law with criminal law; it's just an example.)

A very bad example! Why do you ever bother to be so hypocritical to present
such a piss-poor analogy?
While
the law sometimes admittedly isn't of very much value if it isn't
enforced, it's still the law.

What law? There is no law that make violating the terms of any contract
illegal, in and of itself, and there is no law that makes installing
software on more than one computer illegal!

Please pull your head out of your ass, and show us this "LAW," that you have
dreamt up in your sh*t-filled fantasy world!

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei!"
 
Greetings --

kurttrail said:
Please pull your head out of your ass, and show us this "LAW," that you have
dreamt up in your sh*t-filled fantasy world!

OK. You simply refuse to abandon your delusions and face the
facts. The "law" is the very one you're so fond of quoting: Title 17
of the U.S. Code.

Once again, I give up trying to reason with a "religious" fanatic.
I hope you and your fantasies will be very happy together.


Bruce Chambers
--
Help us help you:



You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on
having both at once. - RAH
 
Before the MVP (M$ Victim Poster) Hermes responded, Johnny Lingo typed:
Where did "religious" fanatic come from?
I saw no mention of any sort of religion.

Well, it is only religion if you are brainwashed to look at it that way,
like Carey and Bruce, for example.
http://www.microscum.com/crapolammpafaq/

I run both Linux and Windows, does that make me blasphemous? ROFL!

--
hermes
DRM sux! Treacherous Computing kills our virtual civil liberties!
http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rja14/tcpa-faq.html
http://www.anti-dcma.org

Windows XP crashed.
I am the Blue Screen of Death.
No one hears your screams.
 

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