LCD Monitors, Should I buy one?

[michelebargeman]

I have been thinking of buying one LCD. I have a very nice monitor, and
I love tube monitors. LCD monitors have turned me off because nearly
all LCD makers don't want to sell backlight for the LCD, and present
LCD won't work with HD-DVD due to "systemwide content protection scheme
called PVP-OPM" (see the link below & small summary). Furthermore,
companies have it diffcult for anyone to replace LCD backlight.

Do you guys know any LCD monitors that is user friendly, by that I mean
replacing brunt LCD CCFL backlight, and Inverter Board is easy &
simple.

Finally, should I wait until HD DVD friendly monitors are here?

See the link: http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,122738,00.asp

*****************************
Most Monitors Won't Play New HD Video

Vista's content protection will block or blur high-def movies on
today's displays.

Scott Spanbauer

From the November 2005 issue of PC World magazine

If you dropped a bundle on a high-end computer display or HDTV, you
could be in for an unpleasant surprise when you slip your new
high-definition DVD of Star Wars: Episode III into your Windows Vista
PC. Vista, the next version of Windows that's slated to appear in about
a year, will feature a new systemwide content protection scheme called
PVP-OPM (see box below). If your monitor doesn't work with PVP-OPM, all
you'll likely see is either a fuzzy rendition of your high-def flick or
Hollywood's version of the Blue Screen of Death--a message warning you
that the display has been 'revoked'.
******************************

Finally, as a Linux user what does this means to me? If you are a Linux
user will you buy HDTV friendly monitors even if Viewsonic, Sony and
other LCD maker won't sell backlight for their LCD Monitors.

PS: I'm posting my questions in two groups (Linux & Hardware), since my
qestions are related to these groups.

Respectfully
Thanks in advance

 

[Tony Smith]

Do you guys know any LCD monitors that is user friendly, by that I mean
replacing brunt LCD CCFL backlight, and Inverter Board is easy &
simple.

Are you sure they have backlight? Most LCD monitors use plasma, and I
don't think it can be replaced or refilled.

http://www.plasmatvbuyingguide.com/plasmatvreviews/plasmatv-life.html

Finally, should I wait until HD DVD friendly monitors are here?

See the link: http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,122738,00.asp

Don't worry about it Well, hollywood bought bittorrent though

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/TechNews/Internet/2005/11/23/1319732-ap.html

 

[Grumps]

Are you sure they have backlight? Most LCD monitors use plasma, and I
don't think it can be replaced or refilled.

Are you serious?!

 

[James McIninch]

I wouldn't purchase an LCD monitor based on the availability of a CCFL for
it anymore than I would a CRT based on the availability of logic boards for
it. The fact is that monitor parts are not typically or widely available
through retail channels and display devices are typically designed
exclusively to be repaired by trained technicians. A skilled person can, of
course, do their own maintenance, in which case the situation is not much
different.

PVP-OPM doesn't apply. It specifically is a DRM scheme implemented between
the OS, video card, and display device. It applies only to vendors
colluding with content providers and is limited by the fact that the scheme
itself violates the laws of various jurisdictions around the world (so, it
will not be possible to enable everywhere). Microsoft promises that their
new Vista operating system, for example, will be user-hostile and introduce
anti-high-definition features to limit access to content. Regardless, it
does not apply in the context of Linux.

HD-DVD is a specification for a high-capacity DVD format and is independent
of the display device. Namely, you can view HD-DVD content on any display
device, but if you want to view the output in the maximum resolution, you'd
want a display so capable (for example, to watch 1080p in maximum
resolution, you'd want an LCD monitor with a resolution of 1920x1080). That
said, 1080p isn't necessarily best viewed in it's native resolution
(particularly on a large display) unless the content itself is of
exceptionally high quality and very well encoded (otherwise, artifacts are
really noticible, as they are on conventional DVDs).

The real problems with LCD are related to response time (some are pretty
good these days), cost (much higher than CRT), color quality (gamut and
fidelity are poor), and resolution (typically lower dpi or extremely
expensive). Many have mediocre brightness as well. If you don't care about
these things, find the one with the brightest highest resolution display in
your price range and meeting your minimum response characteristics (if you
play fast-moving video games, a decent LCD will require you to do your
homework).

 

[linuxtrek]

I was joking of course, but you are right to questioned my statment,
because I should have mentioned it before.

Sorry about that

 

[kony]

I have been thinking of buying one LCD. I have a very nice monitor, and
I love tube monitors. LCD monitors have turned me off because nearly
all LCD makers don't want to sell backlight for the LCD, and present
LCD won't work with HD-DVD due to "systemwide content protection scheme
called PVP-OPM" (see the link below & small summary). Furthermore,
companies have it diffcult for anyone to replace LCD backlight.

Then why are you thinking of buying one?

If you want one, buy it.
If you don't, don't. We're not going to talk you out of
your decision here, but unless you feel viewing HD-DVD
"someday" is more important than having the monitor NOW when
you want it, that shouldn't sway you too much... buying to
be future-proof or waiting for the "next big thing" is
seldom a good strategy for computer hardware.

You don't expect your CRTs to last forever do you?
You'll need another monitor again someday.

As for CCFL, don't expect some kind of modular kit, if the
day comes when you find the lamp or inverter needs replaced
then seek a common size electrically compatible generic
replacement at that point... or just take it to a shop like
people have been doing with TVs and monitors for years.

 

[michelebargeman]

I wouldn't purchase an LCD monitor based on the availability of a CCFL for
it anymore than I would a CRT based on the availability of logic boards for
it.

I understand where you are coming from, however, I have bought CRT
monitors and they have lasted five to ten years. According to some
manufacturers, these LCD have 25,000 hours of life span, I am assuming
25,000 is not an exaggeration. A typical year has 8760 hours, multiply
that with 3 and you get 26,280. That's less then three years! This is
why I'm looking at LCD like a desk lamp. I would want to know if I can
get a replacement CCFL before I invest any money in LCD.

The fact is that monitor parts are not typically or widely available
through retail channels and display devices are typically designed
exclusively to be repaired by trained technicians. A skilled person can, of
course, do their own maintenance, in which case the situation is not much
different.

According this site Sharp will sell replacement lamp.

http://www.lcdtvbuyingguide.com/lcdtv/lcdtv-lifetime.shtml

"Note: Sharp is currently the only manufacturer that makes LCD displays
whose lamps can be changed out. This is definitely something to
consider, given that LCD monitors dim as their lightsources do, so
being able to replace its lamp will restore your picture to "like new"
levels."

However, you are right, but I would remind you that same problem exist
with scanners. I hope you will understand my point of view, these are
not like conventional monitors, and their backlight die very quickly.
As I have stated before my CRT monitor is five years old, and it works
great. If I buy a LCD monitor, I would want it to last longer then my
CRT. Think about it, shouldn't new technology be more reliable and last
longer?

PVP-OPM doesn't apply. It specifically is a DRM scheme implemented between
the OS, video card, and display device. It applies only to vendors
colluding with content providers and is limited by the fact that the scheme
itself violates the laws of various jurisdictions around the world (so, it
will not be possible to enable everywhere). Microsoft promises that their
new Vista operating system, for example, will be user-hostile and introduce
anti-high-definition features to limit access to content. Regardless, it
does not apply in the context of Linux.

The thing is that I am going to be taking a computer course in a
college, and I will need to duel boot my computer with Windows Vista.
This is why I want to make sure If I buy something today it will work
with future operating system. I normally use Linux, but now as you can
see I will need a system that will work with more then one operating
system.

Your input is greatly appreciated.

Ps: Even though I use Linux, I have decided to wait until Windows Vista
is in the market.

 

[kony]

I understand where you are coming from, however, I have bought CRT
monitors and they have lasted five to ten years.

Average is supposedly closer to 4-6 years.

According to some
manufacturers, these LCD have 25,000 hours of life span, I am assuming
25,000 is not an exaggeration. A typical year has 8760 hours, multiply
that with 3 and you get 26,280.

Do you plan on having it running 24/7?

Do you have your current CRTs running 24/7 to obtain this
supposed 5-10 year average?

Are you overlooking that in that span of time, running 24/7,
the lower power consumption of the LCD will quite possibly
have completely offset the cost of it?

That's less then three years! This is
why I'm looking at LCD like a desk lamp. I would want to know if I can
get a replacement CCFL before I invest any money in LCD.

"Invest"? Hardly, you have a monitor that works so this is
just a desire, a newer toy, which is fine if that's what you
want. If it isn't what you want, don't buy one!

According this site Sharp will sell replacement lamp.

http://www.lcdtvbuyingguide.com/lcdtv/lcdtv-lifetime.shtml

So you'll end up buying a monitor based on whether they
advertise it as lamp-replaceable so you can use it longer,
instead of getting the monitor you would otherwise _want_
because of the more obvious attributes like price or picture
quality? I don't know, seems like being stuck with that
kind of concession isn't so great for someone already happy
with their CRT.

However, you are right, but I would remind you that same problem exist
with scanners. I hope you will understand my point of view, these are
not like conventional monitors, and their backlight die very quickly.
As I have stated before my CRT monitor is five years old, and it works
great.

You have no assurance that any CRT you randomly bought
today, would be in good condition after running 24/7 for 5
years. The site you linked cited 60K hours. You shouldn't
be plannning on having the monitor full-on 24/7. Your
argument makes less and less sense the more it is examined.

If I buy a LCD monitor, I would want it to last longer then my
CRT. Think about it, shouldn't new technology be more reliable and last
longer?

If that is the target.
Think about it, what incentive does a monitor manufacturer
have for making a monitor last forever rather than what they
feel the industry deems acceptible and at lower cost?

The answer is simple, you're being ridiculous to think that
some magical purchasing decision makes a product with a
finite lifespan last infinitely. CRTs have been this way,
as have hard drives, motherboards, television sets, take
your pick of consumer product and odds are the lifespan
hasn't gone up appreciably as they tend to target lowest
costs far more than longevity. Same with cars and houses
these days, if you want to get into ideas about replacing
parts then newer technology is actually far worse but all
you can do then is cling to old tech as long as possible or
pay a premium.

The thing is that I am going to be taking a computer course in a
college, and I will need to duel boot my computer with Windows Vista.

Maybe you will, but how does that make it necessary to play
HD-DVDs? It doesn't. You're horribly confused, wanting it
all for nothing- and who doesn't? Manufacturers feel the
same way so you buy a compromise product, or don't.

This is why I want to make sure If I buy something today it will work
with future operating system.

No, if you have done half as much research as you appear to
have, you'd realize that even an 8 year old CRT will work,
as will a current gen LCD.

I normally use Linux, but now as you can
see I will need a system that will work with more then one operating
system.

Your input is greatly appreciated.

Ps: Even though I use Linux, I have decided to wait until Windows Vista
is in the market.

Then why did you post this topic _now_?

The answer is simple, if you don't like the limitations of
HD-DVD in Vista, don't buy the HD-DVDs. Doing so only makes
it profitable to limit fair use.

 

[JDS]

cost (much higher than CRT)

difference is getting smaller and smaller, though

 

[Bob]

Average is supposedly closer to 4-6 years.

Won't that depend on their use, like how long they are on each day?
Even going into power saver standby takes a load off the main
circuits.

Also it depends critically on the make and model. I have a Viewsonic
G810 21" graphics CRT monitor that I bought cheap as "refurbished",
which means they cleaned the outside. Nevertheless it was made in 1997
so it has seen a lot of use.

Do you have your current CRTs running 24/7 to obtain this
supposed 5-10 year average?

Mine runs 24x7 since I have a UPS but I set power management to put it
in standby when not in use.


--

"One must realize that the world is a network of real and virtual
combat zones where the stakes are high, struggle is the primary
mode of being and only total victory is acceptable.
-- Sun Tzu, "The Art Of War"

 

[UCLAN]

I understand where you are coming from, however, I have bought CRT
monitors and they have lasted five to ten years. According to some
manufacturers, these LCD have 25,000 hours of life span, I am assuming
25,000 is not an exaggeration. A typical year has 8760 hours, multiply
that with 3 and you get 26,280. That's less then three years! This is
why I'm looking at LCD like a desk lamp. I would want to know if I can
get a replacement CCFL before I invest any money in LCD.

You leave your monitor on 24/7 ??

BTW...my cheap Shamrock 17" monitor just started having problems
after 8 years of service. I replaced it with a Samsung 930B LCD
19" monitor. So far, I love it. We'll see about its longevity.

 

[Alan S]

I understand where you are coming from, however, I have bought CRT
monitors and they have lasted five to ten years. According to some
manufacturers, these LCD have 25,000 hours of life span, I am assuming
25,000 is not an exaggeration. A typical year has 8760 hours, multiply
that with 3 and you get 26,280. That's less then three years! This is
why I'm looking at LCD like a desk lamp. I would want to know if I can
get a replacement CCFL before I invest any money in LCD.

If you cannot expect to get enough use out of an electronic equipment
within at most 2 years to amortize for the cost then you probably
shouldn't even be buying it. Any LCD that you buy now will be a
doorstop in 3 years so whether the back light is cheap or easy to
replace or not is moot.

 

[michelebargeman]

The thing is, I'm living here in Toronto, It's in Canada. However,
normally I live in up north, Dawson City in Yukon. That's next to
Alaska. I'm only here in Toronto for training, some American companies
are opening call center in my area, so I'll be training my fellow
Klondike

In my area it's very hard to buy new LCD, and they are very expensive
down there. Normally, we prefer to buy things that can be repaired,
however, people in south are well they make fun of us b/c we ride on
dogs.... Believe it or not some people in Toronto think Yukon is in
Alaska! (and no they are not "immigrant").

Ps: Don't flame me if your job is being off-shore into Canada. I am
just a girl.

 

[McGrandpa]

Are you serious?!

He he... last time i looked in any of the specs sheets for all of my LCD
monitors, they all have 4 fluorescent tubes
McG.

 

[Dmitriy M]

I've been using LCD monitors for years and never had one fail on me. I
think they are cheap enough right now (17" ones are in the $200s) to
just replace in case of failure. From my experience they are also a lot
easier on the eyes then CRT monitors.