Just say I bought Vista to play games...

  • Thread starter Thread starter Grumps
  • Start date Start date
G

Grumps

....along with a nice shiney DX19 graohics card. But wait! Where's
DX10? And what about the games - when are they coming out? So just
HOW long do we have to wait?
Methinks MS have mislead me. Isn't that unlawful?
 
How can you say Microsoft misled you when the hardware manufacturers do not
have DX10 parts and game developers are not releasing DX10 games.

You misled yourself.

--


Regards,

Richard Urban MVP
Microsoft Windows Shell/User
 
Well technically nVidia as a DX10 card in the 8800 series and Microsoft has
Flight Sim X (thought it won't be a DX10 game until a DX10 Patch is
released) But we already answered this over in the Vista.Games section. So 2
points off for multi posting


Richard Urban said:
How can you say Microsoft misled you when the hardware manufacturers do
not have DX10 parts and game developers are not releasing DX10 games.

You misled yourself.

--


Regards,

Richard Urban MVP
Microsoft Windows Shell/User
 
Any time a new operating system comes out it takes a while for game
developers (and pretty much every other software company) to catch up.
Nothing new here.
I was tired of my old games anyway. All the new games coming out this year
support Vista and those are the ones I'm excited about.
 
Steve C. Orr said:
I was tired of my old games anyway. All the new games coming out this year
support Vista and those are the ones I'm excited about.


OOOOooooooooooooooh..... NOW I understand everything.
 
There are actually a few DX10 games out. FSX (flight simulator 10) is one of
them. I have it and love it.
I have the exact same machine and it had XP. I played FSX with XP and it was
ok, when I installed
Vista on that same machine, FSX really came to life, and is freaking
awesome. DX10 makes a huge difference
for those games that can use it :) However, you need to have a DX10 card to
really benefit from DX10 games.
DX10 will work with many DX9 graphics cards but it runs the DX10 features in
an emulated mode. This
of course will negatively affect performance. I would recommend the nVidia
8800 GTS or GTX, it is DX10 and Vista
compatible. The card is freaking amazing. You will need a PCI express slot
and a six pin power connector.
I actually have owned the card for a long time and it was very expensive
when I bought it (it was the first
DX10) card available retail where I live, but it should be much cheaper now.
The drivers from nVidia for that
card for Vista are pretty good and will serve you well. I am not sure how
much you know about the inner
working of direct x, and the differences between DX9 and DX10, but the whole
architecture of direct x has
changed. There is no longer the 'rendering pipelines', DX10 cards work by a
different concept, in which
the graphics card process different parts of the rendering process as
needed. I will include a link fully
describing DX10 and relevant cards if you wish when I wake up tomorrow, kind
of late here.
G
 
released) But we already answered this over in the Vista.Games section. So
2 points off for multi posting

Yer- sorry-I didn't see the games group until after I posted this.
 
That's odd, All I have heard is that the Patch that makes FSX DX10 is still
a way away, are you saying you have said patch ?

What other DX10 games are out and actually running in DX10 mode ?


There are actually a few DX10 games out. FSX (flight simulator 10) is one
of them. I have it and love it.
I have the exact same machine and it had XP. I played FSX with XP and it
was ok, when I installed
Vista on that same machine, FSX really came to life, and is freaking
awesome. DX10 makes a huge difference
for those games that can use it :) However, you need to have a DX10 card
to really benefit from DX10 games.
DX10 will work with many DX9 graphics cards but it runs the DX10 features
in an emulated mode. This
of course will negatively affect performance. I would recommend the nVidia
8800 GTS or GTX, it is DX10 and Vista
compatible. The card is freaking amazing. You will need a PCI express slot
and a six pin power connector.
I actually have owned the card for a long time and it was very expensive
when I bought it (it was the first
DX10) card available retail where I live, but it should be much cheaper
now. The drivers from nVidia for that
card for Vista are pretty good and will serve you well. I am not sure how
much you know about the inner
working of direct x, and the differences between DX9 and DX10, but the
whole architecture of direct x has
changed. There is no longer the 'rendering pipelines', DX10 cards work by
a different concept, in which
the graphics card process different parts of the rendering process as
needed. I will include a link fully
describing DX10 and relevant cards if you wish when I wake up tomorrow,
kind of late here.
G
 
Nothing unlawful. DX10 is there, and I suppose you meant you had a DX10 card
instead of "DX19". You are only waiting for the game developers so make
games that make use of DX10, which is inevitable.

Robert Firth
http://www.winvistainfo.org
 
Grumps said:
...along with a nice shiney DX19 graohics card. But wait! Where's
DX10? And what about the games - when are they coming out? So just
HOW long do we have to wait?
Methinks MS have mislead me. Isn't that unlawful?

I doubt you'll really see DX10 games any time soon. Reason is fairly simple.

DX10 and DX9 are vastly different in their implementation. DX10 has no fixed
function pipeline anymore just for starters requiring vertex shaders and
pixel shaders for even the simplest tasks....bad idea in my opinion.

So for that reason, a game developer can't very easily, if at all, make an
engine supporting both DX9 and DX10. The rendering paths are just too
vastly different. It'd almost be like writing two game engines as far as
the rendering pipeline is concerned.

On top of that comes this:

XP Supports DX9, does not support DX10.
Vista Supports DX9 and DX10.

I'd say it is more than safe enough to say that the XP users still by far
outnumber Vista users.

I'd even go as far as to say that a high-end gamer is less likely to move to
Vista than the average user. DX10 is of little reason yet as there is not
much out there using it. Vista's resource requirements leave less resources
to the game on the same hardware and most non-casual gamers tend do be
picky about their game's performance.

Also consider that only 8800's and above video cards support DX10. Meaning
that any game using DX10 will only work on the most absolute high-end
hardware out there that not many users have.

Also consider the time it unfortunately takes these days to make a game.
Long gone are the days when a single person could easily make a game that
can compete in the market place. These days games can take several months
if not even years in same cases to develop. Meaning that everything in
development right now, is still DX9.

Any developer intending to start development this year and release this year
or even not until next year, is also still best using DX9 as that will give
the broadest audience. Both in terms of OS usage and hardware requirements.

Also consider that most games don't even really use DX9 to its fullest
potential yet. If I had to name games using Pixel Shader 2.0 I can name
several. If I had to name games using Pixel Shader 3.0 not even one comes
to my mind. Vanguard...maybe? There are games that use it...but they are a
minority.

Bottom line, I really don't think that DX10 is that viable a choice for any
developer at this moment. The key problems with it being the hardware and
OS requirements that won't be widespread enough met for at least I'd say 2
years.

Even if someone has a machine running Vista, that does not mean they have a
8800 GTS/GTX or higher to go with it to run DX10 software.

I think the only thing DX10 makes sense for right now are projects that have
a development time of 2 years or more. Assuming that MS' doesn't blow its
legs off with Vista, I don't think that the OS nor the required hardware
for DX10 will become mainstream enough for a developer to consider using
it.

The only way really, at this point in time, for a developer to write an
application that will run on all of todays hardware but *also* have
features for the high-end DX10 level hardware is quite honestly...OpenGL. I
am wondering if maybe this scenario may not get some developers to consider
using it. It can do everything DX9 and DX10 can without needing two
completely different APIs.

That actually puts OpenGL into the unique position of having quite an
advantage over DX in that regard. In my opinion anyway.

Not to mention that using OpenGL means that the game isn't tied to one
operating system and can run on any platform on this planet further
broadening the audience.

I am quite curious to see what the future will bring in that regard. =)

--
Stephan
2003 Yamaha R6

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