Is ther any way to defrag compressed disk?

[Dave Rado]

I have WinXP SP1, and my drive has been compressed. Win Explorer claims I
have 2.08GB of free space. When I run defrag analysis, it claims my drive is
47% fragmented! After defragging, it claims that "some files could not be
defragmented"; and if I run defrag analysis again, it still claims my drive
is 47% fragmented.

Is there any way of defragmenting the files? E.g. would cutting and pasting
most of my non-Windows files to an external drive, defragging, then cutting
and pasting them back, work?

I do realise I need a new drive really, but I have no money at present.

Dave

 

[V Green]

I have WinXP SP1, and my drive has been compressed. Win Explorer claims I
have 2.08GB of free space. When I run defrag analysis, it claims my drive is
47% fragmented! After defragging, it claims that "some files could not be
defragmented"; and if I run defrag analysis again, it still claims my drive
is 47% fragmented.

Is there any way of defragmenting the files? E.g. would cutting and pasting
most of my non-Windows files to an external drive, defragging, then cutting
and pasting them back, work?

I do realise I need a new drive really, but I have no money at present.

Dave

Have you noticed, in day-to-day use, any real slowdown
of your system?

If not, just keep going, and don't worry about defragging.

The benefits of doing so are WAAAYYY overhyped, usually
by folks SELLING defrag software (no surprise there), the
stats they quote showing improvements in access times for
files on the disk are very often applicable to a particular type
of access on a particular type of file - not the usual mix of stuff
you or I are likely to encounter during normal use of the PC.

Others are likely to become rabidly incensed with my response
here, and claim I'm the Anti-Christ for promoting such heresy,
but go with your OWN observations, not theirs.

 

[Dave Rado]

| Have you noticed, in day-to-day use, any real slowdown
| of your system?

Incredible slowdown.

For example, if I copy and paste a 2MB image in Photoshop (which once took
less than a second), it now takes around 2 minutes to complete the paste
operation.

Another example: if I open more than about 2 browser windows, paging up and
down in any web page takes several seconds per pageup or pagedown.

So *please* could someone answer my original questions?

Dave

 

[V Green]

| Have you noticed, in day-to-day use, any real slowdown
| of your system?

Incredible slowdown.

For example, if I copy and paste a 2MB image in Photoshop (which once took
less than a second), it now takes around 2 minutes to complete the paste
operation.

Another example: if I open more than about 2 browser windows, paging up and
down in any web page takes several seconds per pageup or pagedown.

So *please* could someone answer my original questions?

Dave

Neither of your symptoms are indicative of any
kind of HD issue unless the drive is failing
altogether. This is unlikely as you would be
having all kinds of problems even getting XP
to boot if that were the case.

Your problem lies elsewhere.

Start by uninstalling any software packages installed
recently, one at a time, checking between each for
any difference. This includes XP updates from MS
as well. A couple of the recent ones are causing
problems.

Update & run all your AV and spyware stuff.

Check in Device Manager for any hardware that has
suddenly developed yellow exclamation marks (!)
indicating that it is not functioning properly.

Unplug from the network, if you're on one, or from
your router, if you're using one. See if it makes any
difference.

Check your Event Viewer logs for clues as to what
might be going on.

 

[Sharon F]

I have WinXP SP1, and my drive has been compressed. Win Explorer claims I
have 2.08GB of free space. When I run defrag analysis, it claims my drive is
47% fragmented! After defragging, it claims that "some files could not be
defragmented"; and if I run defrag analysis again, it still claims my drive
is 47% fragmented.

Is there any way of defragmenting the files? E.g. would cutting and pasting
most of my non-Windows files to an external drive, defragging, then cutting
and pasting them back, work?

I do realise I need a new drive really, but I have no money at present.

Dave

Simplistic approach: Decompress the drive. Defrag will work fine but if you
recompress the drive, pack those files up, it may become fragmented again.

While compression is supposed to be invisible to the user, it can cause a
lag in performance. I don't use it on my personal computers. I work with
images quite often. When I start running low on space on local drives, I
shuttle of older files to an external hard drive or DVD instead of
compressing local drive. If I was working with a HUGE number of ever
changing images, I would still opt for a larger hard drive or external
drives for extra storage and continue to avoid compression.

If I was limited on storage and had to use compression, I would not
compress the drive/partition that held the operating system or pagefile.

Just my preferences based on my own experiences,

 

[Dave Rado]

Hi Sharon


| Simplistic approach: Decompress the drive.

When I can afford a new hard disk I will, but the problem at the moment is
that even without any of my data, the contents of my hard disk have a file
size greater than my hard disk size, at present.

| Defrag will work fine

The thing is, it isn't working at all. As I wrote in my original post:

"When I run defrag analysis, it claims my drive is 47% fragmented! After
defragging, it claims that "some files could not be
defragmented"; and if I run defrag analysis again, it still claims my drive
is 47% fragmented.

| but if you
| recompress the drive, pack those files up, it may become fragmented again.

If I could just get them defragmented for a while until I can afford a new
hard disk that would be wonderful. How can I get them defragmented?

Dave

 

[Sharon F]

When I can afford a new hard disk I will, but the problem at the moment is
that even without any of my data, the contents of my hard disk have a file
size greater than my hard disk size, at present.

In order to defrag a drive (or a single partition on a drive), there has to
be at least 15% free space available. So the reason defrag is not running
for you could be twofold:
-not enough free space
-compressed drive

You're starting to get to "that" point where your options on your existing
setup are limited. Getting more storage to support your workflow and to
maintain the efficiency and performance of your system is very important.

What are you considering for storage options? Do those options include a
way to archive files off of the hard drive?

There are DVD writers available for under $50 these days. One of these
would buy you time and get you some extra space until you have the bigger $
available for a larger hard drive. A single DVD holds over 4 GB of files
and DVDR disks are getting very reasonable in price. Double layer DVDs hold
about twice that amount but the drives and the DVD blanks are more
expensive. Also if often working with images, you will still find good use
for the writer after the larger hard drive is installed.

LG Electronics and Lite-On both make decent writers in this price range.
Some of the external USB hard drives are under $100 and if you catch a good
rebate, can get 80GB of storage for about $75. Checking my local BestBuy
online, they have an internal Seagate 120GB for $99.99 with a $40 rebate.
(If I had an extra IDE slot, I would pick one of those up!) CD writers are
an option but since they're about $30-$50 and only store about 700MB per
disk, the DVD writers are a better value.

I know $50 is still a sizable chunk but you're "getting to the end of the
rope" with your currently available storage. A little bit of prudent
shopping and the benefits gained by purchasing new hardware would go a long
way in solving a world of woes for you.

 

[Dave Rado]

Hi Sharon

I'm trying to decompress the drive (having first moved many of my program
files folders to an external USB drive to free up sufficient space - a bit
of a pain, because my laptop can no longer be hibernated, but that's the
least of my worries at the moment).

The first problem I encountered when decompressing was that a dialog kept
appearing saying that the attributes of various DLL files could not be
modified because they were in use - or in one case, that the attributes of a
file with a gobbledegook filename which seemed to consist of nothing but
digits could not be modified because access was denied. In each case, I
clicked "Ignore". Should I be worried about this?

The second, more serious problem was that after it had got about 10% of the
way through decompressing, Windows Explorer hung. I right-clicked on it on
my Task Bar and clicked "Close", then clicked "End Process", but the
decompression utility's session was closed, not just Windows Explorer's
session.

Now, if I open the Properties dialog for my C:\ drive, the "compress drive
to save disk space" checkbox is *not* checked, which means that I can see no
way to get it to finish decompressing the drive.

I'm panicking now that if I reboot, with most of my drive still compressed
but about 10% of it decompressed, it might not start up: so I daren't
reboot.

What should I do now?

Dave



| On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 08:52:34 +0100, Dave Rado wrote:
|
| > When I can afford a new hard disk I will, but the problem at the moment
is
| > that even without any of my data, the contents of my hard disk have a
file
| > size greater than my hard disk size, at present.
|
| In order to defrag a drive (or a single partition on a drive), there has
to
| be at least 15% free space available. So the reason defrag is not running
| for you could be twofold:
| -not enough free space
| -compressed drive
|
| You're starting to get to "that" point where your options on your existing
| setup are limited. Getting more storage to support your workflow and to
| maintain the efficiency and performance of your system is very important.
|
| What are you considering for storage options? Do those options include a
| way to archive files off of the hard drive?
|
| There are DVD writers available for under $50 these days. One of these
| would buy you time and get you some extra space until you have the bigger
$
| available for a larger hard drive. A single DVD holds over 4 GB of files
| and DVDR disks are getting very reasonable in price. Double layer DVDs
hold
| about twice that amount but the drives and the DVD blanks are more
| expensive. Also if often working with images, you will still find good use
| for the writer after the larger hard drive is installed.
|
| LG Electronics and Lite-On both make decent writers in this price range.
| Some of the external USB hard drives are under $100 and if you catch a
good
| rebate, can get 80GB of storage for about $75. Checking my local BestBuy
| online, they have an internal Seagate 120GB for $99.99 with a $40 rebate.
| (If I had an extra IDE slot, I would pick one of those up!) CD writers are
| an option but since they're about $30-$50 and only store about 700MB per
| disk, the DVD writers are a better value.
|
| I know $50 is still a sizable chunk but you're "getting to the end of the
| rope" with your currently available storage. A little bit of prudent
| shopping and the benefits gained by purchasing new hardware would go a
long
| way in solving a world of woes for you.
|
| --
| Sharon F
| MS-MVP ~ Windows Shell/User

 

[Sharon F]

Hi Sharon

I'm trying to decompress the drive (having first moved many of my program
files folders to an external USB drive to free up sufficient space - a bit
of a pain, because my laptop can no longer be hibernated, but that's the
least of my worries at the moment).

The first problem I encountered when decompressing was that a dialog kept
appearing saying that the attributes of various DLL files could not be
modified because they were in use - or in one case, that the attributes of a
file with a gobbledegook filename which seemed to consist of nothing but
digits could not be modified because access was denied. In each case, I
clicked "Ignore". Should I be worried about this?

The second, more serious problem was that after it had got about 10% of the
way through decompressing, Windows Explorer hung. I right-clicked on it on
my Task Bar and clicked "Close", then clicked "End Process", but the
decompression utility's session was closed, not just Windows Explorer's
session.

Now, if I open the Properties dialog for my C:\ drive, the "compress drive
to save disk space" checkbox is *not* checked, which means that I can see no
way to get it to finish decompressing the drive.

I'm panicking now that if I reboot, with most of my drive still compressed
but about 10% of it decompressed, it might not start up: so I daren't
reboot.

What should I do now?

Dave

Try folder Properties. There's a compress option there too.

Suggestion: Programs can be reinstalled. Get your irreplaceable data safe
first. Then mess around with the rest.

 

[Dave Rado]

Hi Sharon


| Suggestion: Programs can be reinstalled. Get your irreplaceable data safe
| first. Then mess around with the rest.

My data is safe. It's being able to continue to use my laptop that I'm
worried about.


| Try folder Properties. There's a compress option there too.

I'm not sure what you mean by folder Properties? When I decompressed my
drive, I right-clicked on my C: drive in Windows Explorer and selected
Properties. What should do I do differently in order to access folder
Properties?

Regards

Dave


| On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 08:28:48 +0100, Dave Rado wrote:
|
| > Hi Sharon
| >
| > I'm trying to decompress the drive (having first moved many of my
program
| > files folders to an external USB drive to free up sufficient space - a
bit
| > of a pain, because my laptop can no longer be hibernated, but that's the
| > least of my worries at the moment).
| >
| > The first problem I encountered when decompressing was that a dialog
kept
| > appearing saying that the attributes of various DLL files could not be
| > modified because they were in use - or in one case, that the attributes
of a
| > file with a gobbledegook filename which seemed to consist of nothing but
| > digits could not be modified because access was denied. In each case, I
| > clicked "Ignore". Should I be worried about this?
| >
| > The second, more serious problem was that after it had got about 10% of
the
| > way through decompressing, Windows Explorer hung. I right-clicked on it
on
| > my Task Bar and clicked "Close", then clicked "End Process", but the
| > decompression utility's session was closed, not just Windows Explorer's
| > session.
| >
| > Now, if I open the Properties dialog for my C:\ drive, the "compress
drive
| > to save disk space" checkbox is *not* checked, which means that I can
see no
| > way to get it to finish decompressing the drive.
| >
| > I'm panicking now that if I reboot, with most of my drive still
compressed
| > but about 10% of it decompressed, it might not start up: so I daren't
| > reboot.
| >
| > What should I do now?
| >
| > Dave
| >
| >
|
| Try folder Properties. There's a compress option there too.
|
| Suggestion: Programs can be reinstalled. Get your irreplaceable data safe
| first. Then mess around with the rest.
|
| --
| Sharon F
| MS-MVP ~ Windows Shell/User

 

[Sharon F]

I'm not sure what you mean by folder Properties? When I decompressed my
drive, I right-clicked on my C: drive in Windows Explorer and selected
Properties. What should do I do differently in order to access folder
Properties?

Right click the folder. Select Properties. Click Advanced button on General
page, uncheck box that allows folder to be compressed. If you have not
changed the default settings, folders names shown with a blue font are
compressed.

 

[Dave Rado]

Hi Sharon

| On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 19:43:06 +0100, Dave Rado wrote:
|
| Right click the folder. Select Properties. Click Advanced button on
General
| page, uncheck box that allows folder to be compressed. If you have not
| changed the default settings, folders names shown with a blue font are
| compressed.

I take it I need to decompress one folder at a time, then? But partially
compressed folders are shown in a black font, and the dialog won't let me
decompress those ones. Is the only way round this is to recompress the whole
drive, and then try to decompress it again? And what can I do about the
files (mostly DLLs, some system files) that the decompression program it
said couldn't be decompressed, either because they were in use or because
access was denied? Or don't they matter?

Regards

Dave

 

[Sharon F]

I take it I need to decompress one folder at a time, then? But partially
compressed folders are shown in a black font, and the dialog won't let me
decompress those ones. Is the only way round this is to recompress the whole
drive, and then try to decompress it again? And what can I do about the
files (mostly DLLs, some system files) that the decompression program it
said couldn't be decompressed, either because they were in use or because
access was denied? Or don't they matter?

Hopefully you won't have to go folder by folder. For partially compressed
folders, look for subfolders in blue font and decompress subfolders only.
NOTE: The operating system on its own compress the uninstall files for
hotfixes. You could leave these compressed. They are in the Windows folder
with names that start with the $ character.

I can understand your hesitation to reboot but that's when the
decompression for "in use" items would take place.

 

[Dave Rado]

Even in safe mode, there are a large number of files (that don't start with
a $ sign) that it won't touch. Are they undecompressible? If so, doesn't it
matter? Some examples:

vscshellExtension.dll
vscshellExtensionRes.dll
norvex.dll
wzshlstb.dll
nprotect.log
memory.dmp
pchsvc.dll
00thotkey.exe-1f6713cc.pf
charmap.exe-294d640.pf
3dtext~1.scr-ie2e6284.pf

Dave


| On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 23:06:04 +0100, Dave Rado wrote:
|
| > I take it I need to decompress one folder at a time, then? But partially
| > compressed folders are shown in a black font, and the dialog won't let
me
| > decompress those ones. Is the only way round this is to recompress the
whole
| > drive, and then try to decompress it again? And what can I do about the
| > files (mostly DLLs, some system files) that the decompression program it
| > said couldn't be decompressed, either because they were in use or
because
| > access was denied? Or don't they matter?
|
| Hopefully you won't have to go folder by folder. For partially compressed
| folders, look for subfolders in blue font and decompress subfolders only.
| NOTE: The operating system on its own compress the uninstall files for
| hotfixes. You could leave these compressed. They are in the Windows folder
| with names that start with the $ character.
|
| I can understand your hesitation to reboot but that's when the
| decompression for "in use" items would take place.
|
| --
| Sharon F
| MS-MVP ~ Windows Shell/User

 

[Sharon F]

Even in safe mode, there are a large number of files (that don't start with
a $ sign) that it won't touch. Are they undecompressible? If so, doesn't it
matter? Some examples:

vscshellExtension.dll
vscshellExtensionRes.dll
norvex.dll
wzshlstb.dll
nprotect.log
memory.dmp
pchsvc.dll
00thotkey.exe-1f6713cc.pf
charmap.exe-294d640.pf
3dtext~1.scr-ie2e6284.pf

Dave

At this point, do you have more files decompressed than compressed? If yes,
check your free space. If it's at least 15% of the drive's total space,
give Defrag a try. Once that's completed, then continue to attempt
decompressing items still compressed. Don't worry if you can't get all of
them decompressed. As I mentioned before, Windows will decompress some
files not in use on its own as part of its own maintenance. Example:
Prefetch folder (contains the .PF files in your list) and Windows\dllcache\
are normally compressed.

Varied articles about disk compression from the MS Knowledge Base:
How To Use File Compression in Windows XP
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;307987

Disk Cleanup Tool Stops Responding While Compressing Old Files
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;812248

Best practices for NTFS compression in Windows
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/251186/EN-US/

System drive compression causes a driver installation to fail if the driver
does not have a digital signature in Windows Server 2003, in Windows XP,
and in Windows 2000
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;895987