IE/OE fix may not

R

Robert Aldwinckle

Bob Brannon said:
Protected Storage PassView did show that there is the correct password
stored.

Then try deleting the associated userid again.
You should get the prompt that doing that will delete *both*
the userid and the password as a pair.

After both are deleted use the PSPV utility again to check if your
assumption that what that password was being stored for was
correct; i.e., if the password you saw was for this form then deleting
it will have removed it; otherwise it will still be there.

If you don't get the prompt about deleting a userid/password pair
that means the userid was not stored as an AutoComplete value.
That means the application in question is using a different implementation
for storing and presenting passwords; so this whole discussion
will have been moot. ;)


HTH

Robert
---
 
B

Bob Brannon

"Then try deleting the associated userid again. You should get the prompt
that doing that will delete *both* the userid and the password as a pair."

If by doing the above you mean to delete the userid from the form on the
PayPal Web Page, I did try that just now. When I did, I did not get any
message at all. And the entry was still in PSPV. That being the case it
means this whole discussion is moot, if I understood you.


--

Regards,
Bob Brannon




Bob Brannon said:
Protected Storage PassView did show that there is the correct password
stored.

Then try deleting the associated userid again.
You should get the prompt that doing that will delete *both*
the userid and the password as a pair.

After both are deleted use the PSPV utility again to check if your
assumption that what that password was being stored for was
correct; i.e., if the password you saw was for this form then deleting
it will have removed it; otherwise it will still be there.

If you don't get the prompt about deleting a userid/password pair
that means the userid was not stored as an AutoComplete value.
That means the application in question is using a different implementation
for storing and presenting passwords; so this whole discussion
will have been moot. ;)


HTH

Robert
---
 
R

Robert Aldwinckle

Bob Brannon said:
"Then try deleting the associated userid again. You should get the prompt
that doing that will delete *both* the userid and the password as a pair."

If by doing the above you mean to delete the userid from the form on the
PayPal Web Page, I did try that just now. When I did, I did not get any
message at all.

Well, there is one last possible point of ambiguity there.
E.g. in order to get the desired result, by "delete the userid"
you would have to mean: press CursorDown to see the list
of possible userids to be used in that form's field,
then CursorDown to select the one you want to delete,
then press Delete, (that's when you should have seen the prompt),
then repeat the first two steps just to confirm that the userid has
been deleted from that field's list. Then when you attempt
to reuse it (and sign on again) you would get another opportunity
to save the password or not (assuming AutoComplete for Passwords
is enabled.)


And the entry was still in PSPV. That being the case it
means this whole discussion is moot, if I understood you.

Is there anything else you use that password for?
Perhaps it is being preserved for another form?
If so, try deleting or changing the password on it
and then see if PSPV notices the change.

BTW there are quite a few cases in which IE commits registry
updates only when it is closed. I doubt if this is one of them
but it wouldn't hurt to close all IE windows (and wait for iexplore.exe
to be removed as an active process in Task Manager) in order
to doublecheck for such final changes. In relation to this notice that
you will have to Refresh (F5) PSPV after any updates need
to be checked.

Did you get yourself a copy of RegMon (from SysInternals)?
If the field is AutoComplete RegMon would show you the data
being picked out of a Protected Storage System Provider subkey
(one which you otherwise will be unable to detect.) I think it may
even show you the field name that it is associated with.
(If you know the field names I think you can make another page
which uses the same names and then modify them. I don't know
how the two field names become linked as a userid/password
pair however. I suspect that that would have to be a third value
being saved in there somehow, possibly only stored when the
form is used to submit logon info with.)


Hmm... I just had another look at PSPV's functionality.
Apparently, you can use it to delete or change saved
values. If so, you wouldn't have to bother with any of this
blackbox stuff that I have been referring to. In fact, I guess
it wouldn't matter then even if the password is truly
an AutoComplete item. (I don't know and all my previous
comments were based on empirical knowledge gained
from blackbox testing the AutoComplete UI with respect
to password use.)

PSPV shows the "resource name" with each entry.
Is that the URL of the problem page?
If so, and if the method of deleting the userid/password
pair via the form isn't available to you I suppose that
I would try using PSPV's Delete or Export/Import
instead.

BTW I just tried using RegMon filtering on
Protected Storage System Provider
to trace what PSPV does when I press F5.
Unfortuntately it doesn't show enough of the binary string
Data fields to be able to see what is really being saved
but it may give some insight into what the PSPV's Raw Data
option is showing you. Note that if you want to try to find
your password in there you may have to look only for pieces
of it and separate the characters by a space since the tool
is dumping Unicode in hex with only 16 bytes per line left
for interpreting the hex values (which means essentially
you could search for a *maximum* of 8 data characters
at a time.) In any case, it appears that you might get
some clues about the field names the page(s) use
for presenting the userid and password from that
"Raw Data" report. If you have access to the page's
HTML source you could then match up field names
to get a better idea of whether that data came from
that page. Etc.


HTH

Robert
---
 
B

Bob Brannon

Well, there is one last possible point of ambiguity there.
E.g. in order to get the desired result, by "delete the userid"
you would have to mean: press CursorDown to see the list
of possible userids to be used in that form's field,
then CursorDown to select the one you want to delete,
then press Delete, (that's when you should have seen the prompt),
then repeat the first two steps just to confirm that the userid has
been deleted from that field's list. Then when you attempt
to reuse it (and sign on again) you would get another opportunity
to save the password or not (assuming AutoComplete for Passwords
is enabled.)

Well I checked again and there are no other entries for the userid and
deleting mine produces no prompts. However, the userid is there again the
next time I try to login. So, there must be somethign with the website or
the cookie they send me that puts that ID in there and does not auto enter
the password.
Is there anything else you use that password for?
No.


BTW there are quite a few cases in which IE commits registry
updates only when it is closed. I doubt if this is one of them
but it wouldn't hurt to close all IE windows (and wait for iexplore.exe
to be removed as an active process in Task Manager) in order
to doublecheck for such final changes. In relation to this notice that
you will have to Refresh (F5) PSPV after any updates need
to be checked.

Done, no difference.
Did you get yourself a copy of RegMon (from SysInternals)?
Yes.

If the field is AutoComplete RegMon would show you the data
being picked out of a Protected Storage System Provider subkey
(one which you otherwise will be unable to detect.) I think it may
even show you the field name that it is associated with.
(If you know the field names I think you can make another page
which uses the same names and then modify them. I don't know
how the two field names become linked as a userid/password
pair however. I suspect that that would have to be a third value
being saved in there somehow, possibly only stored when the
form is used to submit logon info with.)

Nothing being picked up.

Hmm... I just had another look at PSPV's functionality.
Apparently, you can use it to delete or change saved
values. If so, you wouldn't have to bother with any of this
blackbox stuff that I have been referring to. In fact, I guess
it wouldn't matter then even if the password is truly
an AutoComplete item. (I don't know and all my previous
comments were based on empirical knowledge gained
from blackbox testing the AutoComplete UI with respect
to password use.)

I deleted using PSPV too, no difference.
PSPV shows the "resource name" with each entry.
Is that the URL of the problem page?
Yes.

If so, and if the method of deleting the userid/password
pair via the form isn't available to you I suppose that
I would try using PSPV's Delete or Export/Import

Did that, no difference.

Thanks for the suggestions. I'm back to trying to get somewhere with
PayPal, otherwise guess I'll just have to enter my password each time.
 
B

Bob Brannon

I have tried everything and am at a loss. I even contacted PayPal again and
they assured me that there are no features on the PayPal
web site that would prevent the auto-entry of my password by my
Window's password manager.

So, again, the problem is that at some point I said no, to remembering the
password for this site or no to saving a change to the password for this
site. Ever since it will not enter the password again. Anything I can do?

Well, there is one last possible point of ambiguity there.
E.g. in order to get the desired result, by "delete the userid"
you would have to mean: press CursorDown to see the list
of possible userids to be used in that form's field,
then CursorDown to select the one you want to delete,
then press Delete, (that's when you should have seen the prompt),
then repeat the first two steps just to confirm that the userid has
been deleted from that field's list. Then when you attempt
to reuse it (and sign on again) you would get another opportunity
to save the password or not (assuming AutoComplete for Passwords
is enabled.)

Well I checked again and there are no other entries for the userid and
deleting mine produces no prompts. However, the userid is there again the
next time I try to login. So, there must be somethign with the website or
the cookie they send me that puts that ID in there and does not auto enter
the password.
Is there anything else you use that password for?
No.


BTW there are quite a few cases in which IE commits registry
updates only when it is closed. I doubt if this is one of them
but it wouldn't hurt to close all IE windows (and wait for iexplore.exe
to be removed as an active process in Task Manager) in order
to doublecheck for such final changes. In relation to this notice that
you will have to Refresh (F5) PSPV after any updates need
to be checked.

Done, no difference.
Did you get yourself a copy of RegMon (from SysInternals)?
Yes.

If the field is AutoComplete RegMon would show you the data
being picked out of a Protected Storage System Provider subkey
(one which you otherwise will be unable to detect.) I think it may
even show you the field name that it is associated with.
(If you know the field names I think you can make another page
which uses the same names and then modify them. I don't know
how the two field names become linked as a userid/password
pair however. I suspect that that would have to be a third value
being saved in there somehow, possibly only stored when the
form is used to submit logon info with.)

Nothing being picked up.

Hmm... I just had another look at PSPV's functionality.
Apparently, you can use it to delete or change saved
values. If so, you wouldn't have to bother with any of this
blackbox stuff that I have been referring to. In fact, I guess
it wouldn't matter then even if the password is truly
an AutoComplete item. (I don't know and all my previous
comments were based on empirical knowledge gained
from blackbox testing the AutoComplete UI with respect
to password use.)

I deleted using PSPV too, no difference.
PSPV shows the "resource name" with each entry.
Is that the URL of the problem page?
Yes.

If so, and if the method of deleting the userid/password
pair via the form isn't available to you I suppose that
I would try using PSPV's Delete or Export/Import

Did that, no difference.

Thanks for the suggestions. I'm back to trying to get somewhere with
PayPal, otherwise guess I'll just have to enter my password each time.
 
D

Don Varnau

Bob,
Two thoughts...
My standard advice to reset the "Save password" option is to use PSPV to
save all passwords then clear all passwords from Internet Options> Content>
Autocomplete. You've cleared all passwords at some point, right?

Your e-mail address is being remembered by a cookie, so this is an
Autocomplete problem.

Does a different user account have this problem?

Don
[MS MVP- IE/OE]
 
B

Bob Brannon

Don,
You've cleared all passwords at some point, right?

Yes I have, several times even.
Does a different user account have this problem?

If you mean a different website with a user account and password, then no,
but then PayPal is the only site I have ever mistakenly answered no, to
remembering the password for the site or no to saving a change to the
password. If you mean a different user account in Windows XP, I only have
setup the one I use, and it is an administrator account. I guess there is
the main administrator account. Is that what you mean, another XP user
account?
 
D

Don Varnau

Hi,
Disclaimer: I probably wouldn't setup a new user account just to fix this.
;-)

I'm referring to user accounts in XP. Sometimes setting up a new user
account and moving data and settings to that account is the only way to fix
an odd little problem like this.

But it would take very little time to setup a new account and see if the
Paypal password is saved.

279783 - HOW TO Create and Configure User Accounts in Windows XP:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=279783
811151 - How to copy data from a corrupted user profile to a new profile
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=811151

Don
[MS MVP- IE/OE]
 
R

Robert Aldwinckle

Bob Brannon said:
Don,


Yes I have, several times even.

What does PSPV show then? More importantly I guess does
that site's URL still show then? Does PSPV's Raw Data file give
you any clues about what they are being stored for?

If they are still showing then I suspect it means that the password isn't
really an AutoComplete password or as Don is suggesting that the user
key is corrupt and needs to be replaced.

If you want to get radical (I have read about this but not tried it.)
you could try changing the permissions on that SID subkey of
Protected Storage System Provider. (Currently only System
is listed under Group or user names: so the idea is to add your
administrator's account there and then you may be able to see
that whole branch in more detail than RegMon is currently allowing
you to. You might have to also use the Advanced button and check
Replace permission entries on all child objects... Etc.)
That would allow you to experiment with that subkey. E.g. do the
kind of radical repair that used to be suggested to Win9x users
when corruption there was suspected.


Hmm... here is Doug Knox's (less sketchy) version of the procedure

http://www.dougknox.com/xp/tips/xp_oe_passwords.htm

(Google Groups search for
"protected storage system provider" MSFT OR MVP
)


The point is that if you are successful with a radical surgery there
you may find it less work recovering from that "repair" than having
to rebuild the whole user key.


Good luck

Robert
---
 
B

Bob Brannon

Thanks Don, you're right the new account is too much trouble. Should be an
easier fix but oh well.
 
B

Bob Brannon

Thanks for the suggestions. I have already spent way too much time on this.
I'll just type the password everytime, should be an easier fix but Oh Well.
 

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