I'd like to understand why Windows occasionally freezes

  • Thread starter Thread starter JD
  • Start date Start date
J

JD

It happens only rarely (four times in as many months) and, so far at least,
I've not lost any data, so it's been little more than a nuisance.
There are no error messages. Windows reboots fine. There's nothing in the
Event logs. Checkdisk finds no errors, nor does Dr. Watson.
If there's a pattern, it has only happened upon closing IE.
Since I ran Windows 98 for five years without even one freeze-up, and since
XP is reputedly more stable than 98, I'm not inclined to suspect the OS.
What does that leave?
Device drivers, perhaps?
I can live with it, but I'd like to understand why it happens.
Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated.
 
First, be sure your antivirus software has the latest definitions and run a
virus scan.

Second, download, install and run Ad Aware:
www.lavasoftusa.com
Note: you should always be well backed up before running an application of
this type.

If your system is clear of viruses, open Control Panel, open System, go to
the Advanced tab, click Settings under Startup and Recovery, remove the
check from "Automatically Restart" under System Failure. This will cause
the system to blue screen instead of restarting on errors and the
information on the blue screen may give a clue as to the source of the
issue.

Open Control Panel, open Administrative Tools, open Event Viewer, look for
errors corresponding to the crash, double click the error, the information
contained within may give a clue as to the
source of the problem.

Assuming you have an XP CD and not a recovery CD, place the XP CD in the
drive, when the setup screen appears, select "Check System Compatibility,"
the report it generates may point to problem hardware or software on your
system. If you do not have an XP CD, you can download this application
known as the Upgrade Advisor from the following site:
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/pro/howtobuy/upgrading/advisor.asp
Note: If you have access to a broadband connection it might be best to
download using that as this is a rather large download.

Check for the latest drivers for your hardware, especially your graphics
card and soundcard and all peripherals connected to your system. Do not use
Windows Update for this, go to the device manufacturer's web sites and if
you install updated drivers, ignore the message about drivers being unsigned
by Microsoft.
 
Michael,
Thanks for the information. However, the problem here is not errors that
might be tracked down. Nor are there any "events."
The problem is complete freeze-ups. No mouse, no keyboard, no power off
switch.
You do mention device drivers. That could be a cause of freezes of this
kind?
 
Anything that causes a freeze is an error. I'd be quite surprised if
nothing is referenced in event viewer, did you check all sections and scroll
for errors or is anything at all being listed.

Yes, it is most likely a driver issue, you should also do as I suggested
with regard to placing the XP CD in the drive and selecting Check System
Compatibility. Even if XP came preinstalled on a system, you add things to
it, hardware, software, etc. any of which could cause issues.
 
Michael Solomon is full of SH*T! Are you trying to tell me that XP is 100% stable and could NOT be the cause of system freezes? You are a bold faced liar .
 
Michael -
Strong disagreement on four points.
1.
Freezes in Win XP are fairly common in an application
such as Flight Simulator 2004... and they leave absolutely
no trace in Event Viewer. That makes it hard to run down.
2.
The latest driver is NOT necessarily the greatest driver,
any more than the latest Corvette transmission is the
right transmission for a two year old Caddy. One of
the newer ATI cards is the Radeon 9600XT. The latest
ATI driver s/w is Catalyst 4.2... yet ATI Tech support
recommends Catalyst 3.7 to reduce number of freezes in
Flight Simulator, and it helps a lot.
3.
In December, Microsoft included a new ATI driver in their
updates. I've found this driver to be even better than
the Catalyst 3.7 and highly recommend it to anyone using
an ATI card and having freezes. The statement "Use the
latest driver" is the standard mantra in too many cases.
The better answer is use the "best matched" driver for
your card, and the app that you're having the most trouble
with. Call Tech support or really STUDY their web site.
4.
Don't jump to the conclusion that it's most likely a
driver issue. All sorts of users are having freezes with
Windows XP and the cures are split almost 50-50 between
hardware problems and software problems.

With due respect to the fine efforts of MVP's, your quick
shoot-from-the-hip answer will seldom track down the real
cause of an elusive "freeze".

Freezes are often caused by a bad stick of memory.
Use Google to find "MemTest86". It's free. Download and
use it. It really helps to locate bad memory.

Heat in your computer can lead to freezes. Take the
side panel off for a while. Clean the dust off of fans
and heat-sinks.

Tash ----------------------------------------------------
 
John, I installed XP about 3 months after it was released. I have never had
a "system freeze". I've had a few application freezes but, nothing I could
ever blame on XP. The only issue I have ever had with XP was with floppies.
This is not to say XP is infallible but, most of the problems are usually
operator errors.

JAX

John Kerry said:
Michael Solomon is full of SH*T! Are you trying to tell me that XP is 100%
stable and could NOT be the cause of system freezes? You are a bold faced
liar .
 
I agree with John K. and Tash.
That was lousy advice Mike.
What you can say positive about
Windows XP is that it freezes less
often than Windows 98. And Longhorn
will probably freeze less than Win XP,
but I promise you... it will freeze too.
Half Ace
 
Well if you ever figure that out you will become a very rich man. You would
probably have a better chance figuring out how women think, what makes them
happy, what makes them sad.... and so on
Raj
 
Thanks. I will try that memory test.
BTW, this is a fairly new computer, with all OEM drivers (Gateway).
 
Point number one is well taken though I'm surprised nothing shows in event
viewer. That said, it leads to number 2. I certainly agree the latest
isn't always the best and certainly can be the source of trouble but if you
are not using the latest and are having problems a driver, especially a
graphics driver is good place to start looking as a culprit especially with
regard to a game.

Also, if a graphics card shares memory with main system memory as opposed to
having its own memory that can be a cause.

3) The driver in the update was supplied by ATI. It may work better for
some depending upon setup. Those drivers as opposed to those that come from
the manufacturer's website are not as full featured and often don't
implement all the features of the card. Some such features might in fact be
the source of the problem.

4)Drivers are a very good place to start and again, I go back to what I said
about shared memory. Many machines today come with shared memory and they
just aren't up to gaming or anything with more intense graphics, especially
on an OS as graphics intensive as XP.

I offered up drivers as a good place to start. I assumed if that didn't
resolve it he'd be back.

I have a boilerplate response to crashing as follows that is far more
comprehensive and more likely to find software issues as well, I'm including
it below:
NOTE: the driver recommendation is last in the list:
First, be sure your antivirus software has the latest definitions and run a
virus scan.

Second, download, install and run Ad Aware:
www.lavasoftusa.com
Note: you should always be well backed up before running an application of
this type.

If your system is clear of viruses, open Control Panel, open System, go to
the Advanced tab, click Settings under Startup and Recovery, remove the
check from "Automatically Restart" under System Failure. This will cause
the system to blue screen instead of restarting on errors and the
information on the blue screen may give a clue as to the source of the
issue.

Open Control Panel, open Administrative Tools, open Event Viewer, look for
errors corresponding to the crash, double click the error, the information
contained within may give a clue as to the
source of the problem.

Assuming you have an XP CD and not a recovery CD, place the XP CD in the
drive, when the setup screen appears, select "Check System Compatibility,"
the report it generates may point to problem hardware or software on your
system. If you do not have an XP CD, you can download this application
known as the Upgrade Advisor from the following site:
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/pro/howtobuy/upgrading/advisor.asp
Note: If you have access to a broadband connection it might be best to
download using that as this is a rather large download.

Check for the latest drivers for your hardware, especially your graphics
card and soundcard and all peripherals connected to your system. Do not use
Windows Update for this, go to the device manufacturer's web sites and if
you install updated drivers, ignore the message about drivers being unsigned
by Microsoft.
 
I never said what you are implying and you are putting words in my mouth.

I offered up suggestions about what he might do to ferret out the problem
but you apparently didn't read my first post in this thread which contained
quite few other suggestions besides drivers as a potential source and a
means for possibly finding the source.

It always amazes me how brave people get with their language and how they
treat others when they post anonymously.
 
Please see my first post in this thread. It points to a lot of
possibilities, not just drivers as well as ways to try to ferret out the
source of the issue.
 
Even with a new system, drivers change quickly and are often overlooked as a
potential source of issues because people make the mistake of believing
because the system is new, the drivers will be the most up to date. You
have no idea how long a particular device or included drivers were on the
shelf before the system was shipped.

I am in no way saying it isn't memory, that might well be the case. With a
problem such as this, it's well worth testing.

Good luck.
 
I have been running XP on several machines for over a year at work and at
home and have never had a freeze-up. The few odd problems we have had have
all been solved by running Ad-Aware and clearing out temp files.
 
Fair enough Michael -
The big remaining issue regards the usual advice...
"Get the latest driver" ... that's OFTEN BAD ADVICE!!
The latest driver has been written to best fit the
latest card. Why not?
There is NO good reason to ASSUME that it is going to
be BACKWARD COMPATIBLE... Maybe it is - Maybe it's not.
If you are having trouble, try anything. But if it ain't
broke - don't try to fix it.
regards - Tash -----------------------------------------
..
 
I did not see anything wrong with Mike's answer.
Answer post need to start somewhere.
Driver updates in XP is one of my pet peeves with XP.
It's like declawing a mad tiger.
I would love to see a fix from MS where I can change
drivers for something without XP saying the best ones are
already installed. They may have been the best for that XP
version when it was burned on to its CD. But not when you
have hardware made later then XP.
 
Thanks Tash.

The latest drivers for ATI cards are card specific. You download the driver
file in your group or family of cards and it should find your card and
install the proper drivers, drivers specific to your card.

Understand, I'm telling them to check drivers after they've already
discovered a problem of which a graphics driver might be the cause. If they
are having no issues, then my philosophy and advice is, if it ain't broke,
don't fix it. That said and this is not a lecture but an insight into my
reasoning, as people install updates and new applications, it changes the
environment and places new demands on the card. Of course, their drivers
might simply be corrupt. In any event, I will change that part of my
suggestion in the future to first remove and reinstall the drivers for the
card and to manually create a restore point before installing new drivers in
an effort to give them a quick recovery if it only makes things worse.

That said, most people never check for updated drivers, often have the
drivers that originally shipped with the system which in themselves were
often dated when the system was purchased. I can't make the same blanket
statement with regard to drivers that others have made but you have raised a
valid issue and an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure so I will
amend my instructions in the future to include the creation of a restore
point and make sure their data files are backed up in case things go wrong.
 

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