I don't like the new Start Menu

  • Thread starter Synapse Syndrome
  • Start date
S

Synapse Syndrome

I really don't like the new Start Menu.

I've been trying to get used to it, but it just gets worse the more programs
I install. I want it to breakout All Programs like the XP version. It took
me quite a while to get used to the XP new style menu. I used Classic for
ages, but I can't go back to that now, with Vista.

The new Vista Start Menu is realy crap for organising lots of programs.
What can be done, apart from using the classic version?

ss.
 
P

Paul Smith

Synapse Syndrome said:
I really don't like the new Start Menu.

I've been trying to get used to it, but it just gets worse the more
programs I install. I want it to breakout All Programs like the XP
version. It took me quite a while to get used to the XP new style menu.
I used Classic for ages, but I can't go back to that now, with Vista.

The new Vista Start Menu is realy crap for organising lots of programs.
What can be done, apart from using the classic version?

I never even use the menu. I just use the search box. If I want to move
things around I open the folder up in explorer.

--
Paul Smith,
Yeovil, UK.
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User.
http://www.windowsresource.net/

*Remove nospam. to reply by e-mail*
 
A

Andre Da Costa[ActiveWin]

I agree with Paul, if you want a program, I just search for using Instant
Search. But, I think an option for Cascading menus should have been
available. It does get unwieldly after a lot of applications are installed.
 
M

MicroFox

HA!!!! I have been saying this since I first layed eyes on the monstrosity!

Stupidity in pure concentrated form!

And what the people say here? use the search thing...
great.. you have a non functional start menu and a search thing.. well why
dont they take the start menu off altogether then??!!! lol


gesh some people are dumb!
 
A

Andre Da Costa[ActiveWin]

The new Instant Search field is used for more than finding programs, you can
use it to search the Internet and personal files.
 
M

MicroFox

Andre, I know... I have used vista for a long time....

I just disagree with the changes they did in the interface...

I would like to see changes that are better thought out,,

the start menu is very badly designed
 
J

Jon Davis

I agree, if it ain't broke, Microsoft shouldn't fix it. I think Search is
handy but it's no replacement.

They are in fact deprecating the use of menus in general. Case in point,
Office 2007. I absolutely hate the ribbons. It's prettier but will take
years to get used to not having menus anymore in Outlook messages and in
Excel and Word. Menus were so clean and organized, now you have to wade
through graphical crap where every ribbon tab is a completely different
layout of buttons. Oh how I miss easy-to-read plain-text menus!... *sob*

Jon
 
M

MicroFox

I tried to explain to them that the ribbon was a mistake...
but MS was as a point where they were too back on schedule, they had started
the ribbon interface and it was too late to go back...

MS is going to lose lots of its prestige with these interfaces....

You mention vista and office to IT people and they either chuckle or
frown.....depending on the character of the person.
 
A

Alexander Suhovey

Synapse Syndrome said:
I really don't like the new Start Menu.

Well, I don't know.

While I can understand that many people will not like new UI concepts of
Vista and Office, personnally I like both Office ribbons and Start menu
layout and I will explain why.

Office: Though they are looking really strange, I found that over time as I
get used to ribbons, I start to do more things more quickly. Ribbons allow
you (sorry, I mean, "me") to have more options available in less mouse
clicks.

Start menu: Who said XP Start menu layout is better when you have many
programs installed? Jesus, it was/is such a nighmare to navigate thru
(translation - hunt) this tree of folder panes. Panes and panes and panes
pop up all over desktop, and you need to guide your mouse carefully thru
them so you don't have wrong node popped up.

Vista's Start menu is one static compact frame with scrollbar much like
directory tree in XP's Windows Explorer. It allows me to reach particular
node with much less mouse movements. I like that.

I don't know why but somehow new Vista Start menu reminds me of one feature
in MacOS X I immediately fell in love with when I saw it first time - fixed
toolbar. If you are not familiar with MacOS UI, it's basically a toolbar
that is pinned to the top of desktop and changes as you change active window
to be a toolbar for that particular window. What it gives you is that
tollbar and it's buttons for active window are on the same static position
on the desktop all the time no matter how you resize/move window itself - so
you don't need to mouse-hunt toolbar buttons on each app window you open.
Excellent. Less mouse moves and/or concentration (read - distraction) to do
things.

Of course keyboard shortcuts are quicker in any case but we are talking
about UI navigation here...


All above is strictly IMHO of course.
 
M

MicroFox

Both systems of start menu had a problem..
the vista way however is worse. The solution was for microsoft to buy this
program and make it into a wizard

THIS is the most effective way to do things....
I dont use this application, I do it manually.. but if you do it, then the
xp start menu is very effective... it just works!

www.tidystartmenu.com/
 
J

Jimmy Brush

I think the big problem with the start menu is that you have to scroll. This
is nice for not having to move the mouse around a lot; this is NOT nice for
remembering where programs are and finding them easily.

As a compromise, they could have put little tabs right above the search bar
where you can jump to different "pages" inside the start menu program
listing; that way, as long as you remembered what page the program/folder
you were looking for was in, you could get to it easily without scrolling.

However, personally, I like the new design better than the old; I don't
think the time lost by scrolling affects me as bad as the frustration of
moving my mouse and locating a single tiny menu item inside of 4
side-by-side menus with hundreds of options taking up the entire screen.
 
P

Paul Smith

MicroFox said:
HA!!!! I have been saying this since I first layed eyes on the
monstrosity!

Stupidity in pure concentrated form!

And what the people say here? use the search thing...
great.. you have a non functional start menu and a search thing.. well why
dont they take the start menu off altogether then??!!! lol


gesh some people are dumb!

What's stupid is the old menu which covered the whole screen in a mess which
you had to carefully navigate your mouse around.

Studies have shown most users didn't even use the menu and used Windows XP's
recently used programs far more often.

--
Paul Smith,
Yeovil, UK.
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User.
http://www.windowsresource.net/

*Remove nospam. to reply by e-mail*
 
M

MicroFox

read this

-------

Both systems of start menu had a problem..
the vista way however is worse. The solution was for microsoft to buy this
program and make it into a wizard, or better yet have an online database of
apps
and do it for you with a click of a button...

THIS is the most effective way to do things....
I dont use this application, I do it manually.. but if you do it, then the
xp start menu is very effective... it just works!

www.tidystartmenu.com/
 
M

MicroFox

Both systems of start menu had a problem..
the vista way however is worse. The solution was for microsoft to buy this
program and make it into a wizard, or better yet have an online database of
apps and do it for you with a click of a button...

There could be a developers site where developers or even users would add
the names of the apps, and the category they should be under...

THIS is the most effective way to do things....
I dont use this application, I do it manually.. but if you do it, then the
xp start menu is very effective... it just works!

www.tidystartmenu.com/
 
J

Jon Davis

Right. I don't use third party apps either but if everything is put into its
own category folder -- i.e. Unreal Tournament, Guild Wars, WoW, etc. into
"Games", Visual Studio into "Development", Photoshop into "Graphics &
Design", Yahoo! Messenger into "Networking & Communications", etc., you end
up with a very clean, elegant, and usable environment, where all your
options are available by not just name but also by category.

Again, Vista's search is NOT a viable replacement. Can you type "Graphics"
and get Photoshop in the list? I don't think so!!

Jon
 
J

Jon Davis

I think the big problem with the start menu is that you have to scroll.
This is nice for not having to move the mouse around a lot; this is NOT
nice for remembering where programs are and finding them easily.

Agreed. Is the new program with the name we don't remember under "Stardock"
or is it under "Starhawk"? With the XP menu, you just go Start
(click)->Programs, then mouse over one to see its contents, then flick your
wrist moving the mouse a few pixels, and you see the contents of other.
That's two clicks--Start, and the item.

Vista? I'm sure I have this wrong but let me guess... Start->click
Programs(?? don't recall), scroll down (yes, click and drag), find one,
click on it, see the contents, .. realize it's not what you want, click some
blank space on the taskbar to collapse the menu without bringing an app into
focus, click Start->click Programs(??), scroll down (click+drag), find the
other, click on it, see the contents... ooh! wait, it was the first one
after all ...

Jon
 
A

Alexander Suhovey

Jon Davis said:
Vista? I'm sure I have this wrong but let me guess... Start->click
Programs(?? don't recall), scroll down (yes, click and drag), find one,
click on it, see the contents, .. realize it's not what you want, click
some blank space on the taskbar to collapse the menu without bringing an
app into focus, click Start->click Programs(??), scroll down (click+drag),
find the other, click on it, see the contents... ooh! wait, it was the
first one after all ...

Sure, you have this wrong. New Vista Start menu layout is like directory
tree pane in XP's Windows Explorer. There's no need to start over to reach
another node.

1. Click Start
2. Click All Programs
3. Click "Stardock", realize it's not what you want
4. (if next node is within visible window, skip to the next step) Scroll
down using mouse wheel (my choice) or scrollbar or keyboard arrows/page
down.
5. Click "Starthawk", ooh! wait, it was the first one after all
6. Just click program under first node since it is still expanded above.
 
S

Synapse Syndrome

Alexander Suhovey said:
Sure, you have this wrong. New Vista Start menu layout is like directory
tree pane in XP's Windows Explorer. There's no need to start over to reach
another node.

1. Click Start
2. Click All Programs
3. Click "Stardock", realize it's not what you want
4. (if next node is within visible window, skip to the next step) Scroll
down using mouse wheel (my choice) or scrollbar or keyboard arrows/page
down.
5. Click "Starthawk", ooh! wait, it was the first one after all
6. Just click program under first node since it is still expanded above.



With regard to your earlier post as well, this is just not how I like it.

The search thing is all very nice when you know what you are looking for,
but sometimes I forget what a program is called until I see the name. Also,
there are often minor programs that have icons in the submenu alongside the
main application that can be completely forgotten about.

I know it's a bit late to complain about this, but I desperately hope MS is
going to add the option of a cascading menu for final release. I know that
this is incredibly unlikely though.

ss.
 
B

Bill

Paul Smith said:
What's stupid is the old menu which covered the whole screen in a
mess which you had to carefully navigate your mouse around.

It's only stupid if you leave it like that.

The XP menu is adaptive, meaning you can organize it any way you want.
I have mine setup with concise submenus with similar programs
organized togther that keeps it clean and tidy without covering the
whole screen. Two clicks to start any program.
Studies have shown most users didn't even use the menu and used
Windows XP's recently used programs far more often.

Of course, which is why the very first thing you see when you click
the start button is the recently used list of programs. I like that
idea and thankfully I can use small icons to get 20+ programs on the
list. I can make it more, but then the menu gets too long.

What I don't like about the new menu though, is the lack of cascading
menus and response time. Hovering the mouse takes too long to open the
Programs menu and I'd like to speed that up like I did in XP using
TweakUI to adjust the menushowdelay setting. But this behaviour is
unique to the Programs menu only - hovering over a program submenu
doesn't do anything even though I have it enabled in the properties
for the start menu (bug in RC2?). I have to click it to open the
submenu which means more mouse clicks. And if it's a menu within a
menu, I have to click again and again to open the next submenus.

To open a particular program I don't use often enough to keep on the
recently used list, I may have to click 4-5 times to start the
program - that's annoying and more stressful (think RSI) to people who
use a computer all day long like IT department techs. For example, to
run Disk Cleanup, you have to click 5 times to start it:

Click Start button, click Programs, click Accessories, click System
Tools, click Disk Cleanup.

With XP, I clicked only two times, once on the Start button, and once
on the program, and navigation wasn't any harder with the cascading
menus once organized and with a short menu delay.

I know we can use the search option to bring up programs, but that
means switching between tools, mouse to keyboard, then back to mouse,
or mouse to keyboard, arrow keys and hit enter, then back to mouse.
And the search only works if you remember what the program is called
or a part of the name. I like the integrated search feature for other
things like finding emails or documents that contain keywords, but for
menu navigation it's too slow and of no help to me.
 
J

Jon Davis

Wow. I was more right than I expected. Way more clicks and drags than in XP.
(I would've verified but I kind of gave up on Vista when RC2 crapped out on
the networking card; maybe there'll be hope in RTM.)

Jon
 

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