How old is too old?

[ToolPackinMama]

I decided to start telling my friends that some computers are just TOO
OLD for me to fix.

Not that they can't be fixed. Just that I can't be bothered.

I chose five years as a cut-off date, but I am thinking of making it
four years.

I might as well mention the incident that sparked this rebellion...

A friend of mine obtained two OLD computers from an unknown source, via
a soon-to-be ex-husband. She told me that one of them sort-of worked,
and just had a bad CD drive. The other maybe didn't work at all, but
she wanted me to evaluate both of them.

I told her to do a Google search on both models, to get the basic info
about how old they were, and what might be under the hood.

THAT'S when she told me that they were both at least six years old, and
that she furthermore wasn't sure where they came from.

I said, "Get them out of your house, for all you know they are infested
with cockroaches or bedbugs."

What I didn't say is that NO WAY was I going to crack those cases and
start inhaling whatever was in there.

 

[Davej]

I chose five years as a cut-off date, but I am thinking of making it
four years.

Depends on whether they were crap to begin with or top-of-the-line.
Also depends on how inexpensively they can be fixed.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I decided to start telling my friends that some computers are just TOO
OLD for me to fix.

Not that they can't be fixed. Just that I can't be bothered.

I chose five years as a cut-off date, but I am thinking of making it
four years.

I might as well mention the incident that sparked this rebellion...

A friend of mine obtained two OLD computers from an unknown source, via
a soon-to-be ex-husband. She told me that one of them sort-of worked,
and just had a bad CD drive. The other maybe didn't work at all, but
she wanted me to evaluate both of them.

I told her to do a Google search on both models, to get the basic info
about how old they were, and what might be under the hood.

THAT'S when she told me that they were both at least six years old, and
that she furthermore wasn't sure where they came from.

I said, "Get them out of your house, for all you know they are infested
with cockroaches or bedbugs."

What I didn't say is that NO WAY was I going to crack those cases and
start inhaling whatever was in there.

I wouldn't care about the age per se but anything of that age simply
isn't worth paying someone to repair.

 

[larry moe 'n curly]

What kinds of repairs are we talking about -- board replacement or
board level? Board repairs are usually kind of cheap because it's
usually the power sections that fail. About 6-8 years ago, desktop
computers became fast enough for most non-gaming users even today, and
does it really cost more to fix an old computer than a new one?
Other than DDR memory being a lot more expensive than DDR3, I don't
think so.

 

[VanguardLH]

I decided to start telling my friends that some computers are just TOO
OLD for me to fix.

Not that they can't be fixed. Just that I can't be bothered.

I chose five years as a cut-off date, but I am thinking of making it
four years.

I might as well mention the incident that sparked this rebellion...

A friend of mine obtained two OLD computers from an unknown source, via
a soon-to-be ex-husband. She told me that one of them sort-of worked,
and just had a bad CD drive. The other maybe didn't work at all, but
she wanted me to evaluate both of them.

I told her to do a Google search on both models, to get the basic info
about how old they were, and what might be under the hood.

THAT'S when she told me that they were both at least six years old, and
that she furthermore wasn't sure where they came from.

I said, "Get them out of your house, for all you know they are infested
with cockroaches or bedbugs."

What I didn't say is that NO WAY was I going to crack those cases and
start inhaling whatever was in there.

Depends on the availability of replacement parts. For example, you
might not be able to find a CPU for sale that fits the CPU socket. Try
looking around for a Slot2/3 Intel Pentium yet? I'm still using an old
host with AMD Athlon XP (1-core). Yes, I can find the part but because
of their rarity it's not worth the cost to replace.

As far as dust, lint, or whatever is inside, the age isn't a factor.
Could be it was in a house with wood floors, no cloth drapes, painted
walls instead of textured wallpaper, had no pets, and had an electrified
air filter in the A/C and the ducts blown out every 5 years, or so.
That computer would be clean for m-a-n-y years. Now consider a 2-year
old unit sitting atop a deep-pile carpet, lots of traffic across lots of
traffic, lots of drapes, several pets, and a house full of smokers.
That unit will be scummy inside (and the cig smoke will make it stick
everywhere so a duster can won't be enough).

At work, we had an archive of old computer parts. It was in a storage
area with no moving air flow (because no one was there that needed air
conditioning or much heat), no carpet, no window coverings, and pretty
much nothing humans like for esthetics. We'd salvage cases that were
over 10 years old and there wasn't very little dust inside (unless the
unit got stored that way).

The years aren't what piles up the fluff inside a case, inside the PSU,
on the fans, in the fins of heatsinks. It depends on the environment
where it was used.

If you want a cutoff, just say you too afraid of dust and don't know how
to use cheap breather masks you can buy a dozen for under $5. Say you
won't repair anything where it's cost is more than 100% than when it was
new in the era when the product was readily distributed (i.e., you won't
pay extra for rare parts). Obviously this isn't a computer shop or
repair service you are operating but just some favors you decide to do
for someone else. You do have the option to say No when asked for a
favor.

 

[Man-wai Chang]

I said, "Get them out of your house, for all you know they are infested

with cockroaches or bedbugs."

Ghosts are more fightening!

--
@~@ You have the right to remain silence.
/ v \ Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and farces be with you!
/( _ )\ (Fedora 15 i686) Linux 3.0.4
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[ToolPackinMama]

Ghosts are more fightening!

Oh? Not if you ask someone who has dealt with bedbugs!

 

[VanguardLH]

Oh? Not if you ask someone who has dealt with bedbugs!

Worse than cockroaches scurrying out? How about spiders? Or ants?
Those eat bed bugs but are a bit more unnerving when they run up your
arm or over your hand when you open the case. It only takes a couple
weeks for those pests to get inside if they're present in whatever
environment in which the computer was used/stored.

You can use a normal vacuum with a decent hose to suck up anything that
crawls or falls out. Using a duster can should be done outside, never
inside (unless you have a filtered housing with pass-through gloves or
you're hoping a nearby vacuum will suck up all the floating crap). Most
of the loose big crap can be sucked up WITHOUT touching the tip to
anything since it generates static due to the rushing inflow of air.
Thereafter you want to use a anti-static vacuum certificed for
electronic/computer repair (hard to find, pricey).

 

[Krypsis]

I decided to start telling my friends that some computers are just TOO
OLD for me to fix.

Not that they can't be fixed. Just that I can't be bothered.

So that's the crux of the matter then...

I chose five years as a cut-off date, but I am thinking of making it
four years.

I fix up old computers and pass them on to financially straightened
friends. I limit them to P4 or better these days but exclude Celerons.
All P3s end up scrapped for any usable components. That said, a friend
to whom I passed along an old P3 733 MHz machine tells me that it is
still running perfectly whereas a P4 from another source has become
unusable. It has been his primary internet machine for over a year now
and, whilst slow, still serves his family's needs. I passed along an
eMac and a 3GHz pentium desktop to supplement the old P3.

I might as well mention the incident that sparked this rebellion...

A friend of mine obtained two OLD computers from an unknown source, via
a soon-to-be ex-husband. She told me that one of them sort-of worked,
and just had a bad CD drive. The other maybe didn't work at all, but she
wanted me to evaluate both of them.

I told her to do a Google search on both models, to get the basic info
about how old they were, and what might be under the hood.

And exactly how is she going to find out what's under the hood from a
Google search? This is assuming that she is technically literate of
course. Most women I know who use computers haven't a clue what's "under
the hood". All they want to do is use the blasted thing!

THAT'S when she told me that they were both at least six years old, and
that she furthermore wasn't sure where they came from.

Six years old is still eminently usable. Where they come from isn't a
concern. What matters is what they have inside in the way of hardware
and that can easily be determined by (a) booting up and checking out the
CMOS info or (b) removal of covers and a peek inside. Note that most
women don't know how to even get into the CMOS menu or, for that matter,
what all the information means in the first place. Not a lot different
to telling them to go for a drive in your car, then asking what engine
and transmission it has fitted to it.

I said, "Get them out of your house, for all you know they are infested
with cockroaches or bedbugs."

So? Take them outside, remove aforesaid covers and blow the dust and
assorted bugs out. That's why I have a compressor out in the garage.
Comes in very handy for such tasks.
BTW, bedbugs typically do not infest computers as their needed sources
of food are not available. For that matter, I've never seen a cocroach
in one either. Come to think of it, I don't think I've even seen a
spider inside a computer either. Dust, yes, seen plenty of dust in
computers but not much else.

What I didn't say is that NO WAY was I going to crack those cases and
start inhaling whatever was in there.

Why not? If you are so paranoid, why don't you give up on computer
repair and spend your time eating good healthy food, sucking on health
supplements and working out at the local gym?

I've seen 1 year old computers with CPU fans and heatsinks clogged up
with dust. That's why they were brought to me .. they shut down due to
overheating. A quick blast of compressed air and they were as good as new.

I really don't like to condemn any computer unless it is no longer able
to support a useful function under current operating systems, including
Linux. Why should I? Most people only use a computer for internet
browsing, watching a few movies or email. You don't need the latest
powerhouse for that sort of thing. My 7 year old G5 Powermac is still
doing sterling service as is my 6 year old 3 GHz Pentium desktop. My
powerhouse Q6600 Quadcore stands idle for much of the time being only
pressed into service for the occasional heavy duty task such as running
virtual machines. Note, I don't generally play games other than
solitaire or the like hence my need for a powerhouse computer isn't great.

 

[Man-wai Chang]

Worse than cockroaches scurrying out? How about spiders? Or ants?

Venomous insects are really scary, esp in Australia! Thank you for
bringing it up.

--
@~@ You have the right to remain silence.
/ v \ Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and farces be with you!
/( _ )\ (Fedora 15 i686) Linux 3.0.4
^ ^ 22:56:01 up 5 days 2:09 0 users load average: 0.09 0.05 0.06
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[Don Phillipson]

I decided to start telling my friends that some computers are just TOO OLD
for me to fix. Not that they can't be fixed. Just that I can't be
bothered.

This bypasses the basic test question:
What do you want to do that justifies the expense?

This question is just as useful today as 30 years
ago when we had to decide whether to spend $2k
or more on a Kaypro or an Apple II. We had to
think first what we wanted to do (genealogy or
games, self-publishing or business accounts.)
The answer today is just as useful.

 

[The Seabat]

Why for? You have special air or something in Australia? Why would
you be more scared there than any place else?

 

[GMAN]

Oh? Not if you ask someone who has dealt with bedbugs!

Something is wrong with the way you are living if you allow your home to be
infested with bedbugs.

 

[Flasherly]

I decided to start telling my friends that some computers are just TOO
OLD for me to fix.

The oldest thing salvageable is a IDE channel. There should be,
theoretically following MFM controllers, first 30 and 40Mbtyte IDE
drives that still can be plugged into a six-core motherboard. I
plugged into a newer system a still-working Trident PCI videoboard
with 8M of "seated" memory - the kind of memory you can pry out of a
socket - and that was at least 10 years past those early IDE drives.
Oldest system I can practically and do still work on is a socket-A
Athlon, maybe 1200Mhz, that followed a slotted-socket Athlon. Put
Opera 11.5 on it to get at what Firefox 2 lacks.

Not that they can't be fixed. Just that I can't be bothered.

I agree wholeheartedly. Nor could I. Like a guy that owns such, and
others, who couldn't be bothered lifting a single finger to learn one
thing about technical aspects to owning or operating a computer.
Besides being so cheap, they'll hold on, squeezing that buffalo-head
nickel until either it's prised from their hand or the buffalo shits.
Oh. Did I mention the Intel Pentium 4 3EGHz 800MHz 1MB Socket 478 CPU
I got for $7.99 this morning? There's more . . .
3 DX-AV221-BP -- 6' Dynex DX-AV221 2 RCA (M) to (M) Audio Cabl...
$2.49 $7.47
2 10A3-042HF -- 6" 3.5mm (M) to Dual RCA (F) Stereo Audio Cabl...
$1.49 $2.98
1 RR-H101-22FK-RA -- Cooler Master Hyper 101A Socket AM3/AM2+/ (2
heatpipe) $10.50 $10.50
1 WRP4-16W1-51 -- Pentium 4 Socket 478 Heatsink Retention Modu...
$1.59 $1.59

 

[RayLopez99]

Venomous insects are really scary, esp in Australia! Thank you for
bringing it up.

One of the scariest bugs is Reduviidae, found worldwide,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reduviidae, commonly known as the
assassin bug for certain species, when it carries Chagas Disease,
which is generally hard to treat (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Chagas_disease) and found in South and Central America. Oftentimes
people don't know they even have it until they get a heart checkup and
find that their heart tissues have been eaten away by the Chagas
protozoa. Open heart transplant is the only cure.

But more worldwide and more popularly known is malaria and other
diseases carried by the mosquito.

RL

 

[Man-wai Chang]

I found that it could be carried by pets as well...

One of the scariest bugs is Reduviidae, found worldwide,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reduviidae, commonly known as the
assassin bug for certain species, when it carries Chagas Disease,
which is generally hard to treat (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Chagas_disease) and found in South and Central America. Oftentimes
people don't know they even have it until they get a heart checkup and
find that their heart tissues have been eaten away by the Chagas
protozoa. Open heart transplant is the only cure.

--
@~@ You have the right to remain silence.
/ v \ Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and farces be with you!
/( _ )\ (Fedora 15 i686) Linux 3.0.4
^ ^ 22:56:01 up 5 days 2:09 0 users load average: 0.09 0.05 0.06
ä¸å€Ÿè²¸! ä¸è©é¨™! ä¸æ´äº¤! ä¸æ‰“交! ä¸æ‰“劫! ä¸è‡ªæ®º! è«‹è€ƒæ…®ç¶œæ´ (CSSA):
http://www.swd.gov.hk/tc/index/site_pubsvc/page_socsecu/sub_addressesa

 

[Peter]

I decided to start telling my friends that some computers are just TOO
OLD for me to fix.

Not that they can't be fixed. Just that I can't be bothered.

I chose five years as a cut-off date, but I am thinking of making it
four years.

I might as well mention the incident that sparked this rebellion...

A friend of mine obtained two OLD computers from an unknown source, via
a soon-to-be ex-husband. She told me that one of them sort-of worked,
and just had a bad CD drive. The other maybe didn't work at all, but
she wanted me to evaluate both of them.

I told her to do a Google search on both models, to get the basic info
about how old they were, and what might be under the hood.

THAT'S when she told me that they were both at least six years old, and
that she furthermore wasn't sure where they came from.

I said, "Get them out of your house, for all you know they are infested
with cockroaches or bedbugs."

What I didn't say is that NO WAY was I going to crack those cases and
start inhaling whatever was in there.

I often work from the software side rather than the hardware. Old
machines can take forever if you need to run scans, install operating
systems, software or updates.

 

[Searcher7]

I understand the desire to work on the latest and greatest but take them
as they come. Probably 50% of the stuff I work on professionally is
P2s. That is because the processor and speed are not that important but
spare equipment is in the applications running on the systems.

Have a 486 laptop still functioning for two specific purposes. Can't see
upgrading to anything better until it fails. It replaced a 386 a year
or so ago.

PC technology is way ahead of what most people really need. Of course
the industry has put a lot into convincing people that is not the case
and creating conflicting standards to make upgrading necessary.

What do you do on those old computers? I agree with old stuff I have
here like a 20" CRT TV, VCR, analog hearing aid models from 1994, etc. I
don't care as long as they work for what I need them to do.

What models are those? My new digital ones don't seem to be worth the
2 grand my uncle spent on them. (And if I can't get something done
about my hearing problem soon my life is pretty much over).

The 486 still seems to be popular with equipment that is going to be
used in Space.
John Ferrell W8CCW

Older technology is simple and more reliable. TVs are a perfect
example.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

 

[Paul]

Searcher7 wrote:

Older technology is simple and more reliable. TVs are a perfect
example.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

It's more than just "reliable". They use that old stuff for
radiation hardening, and resistance to Single Event Upset.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiation_hardening

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RCA_1802

http://www.antiquetech.com/chips/RCA1802.htm

"The COSMAC's that flew in space were space/radiation hardened
versions using a CMOS/SOS chip technology. These radiation
hardened versions were developed in conjunction with the Sandia
National Laboratories. The 1802 was likely the first microprocessor
used as a nuclear weapons controller."

And in case you think that issue only affects spacecraft,
I've read a few disturbing articles about changing ordinary
microprocessor design, to mitigate SEU. As the geometry
of our electronics shrinks (22nm and dropping), even the
radiation present at the earth's surface can upset a device.
They're thinking of adding redundancy at the hardware level,
to check the results. And the need to add redundant circuits
inside, to increase the odds of getting a correct result,
reduces the incentive to further shrink the chips. (Think
of a billion gates for the function, plus another billion added
to check the results.) There will be a point of diminishing return.

Those features could be added to existing processors, and
we wouldn't know it. The features wouldn't necessarily be
that visible from the outside. If an instruction got rolled
back, there might only be a tiny jitter in program
execution time.

That doesn't mean though, that some day a processor like a
Core i7, will ride into space. The kind of redundancy used,
might not be sufficient for all classes of hardware failure
while in space. There will still be some value in the
large geometry, slow, old processors.

One of the problems with those old processors, is finding
a fab that can still make them. The world's supply of
1802 processors, is probably sitting in a desk drawer
somewhere

Paul

 

[david]

One of the problems with those old processors, is finding a fab that can
still make them. The world's supply of 1802 processors, is probably
sitting in a desk drawer somewhere

Paul

Intersil is showing it as an active product.
$108 each, in an expensive ceramic package.