High-Pitched Whine

G

Grant Baxter

I recently put together an el-cheapo computer to play with Linux. It
is making a high-pitched sound that I just can't track down. The whine
changes tone when the monitor is being scrolled. I've tried two
different video cards and it happens the same way with both.

Some of the components are: Giga-Byte GA-8VM800M-775, 2 sticks of
Ultra DDR memory, a fairly new HD, and a fairly new DVD burner (the HD
and DVD worked fine on another computer and made no noise).

It's the same type of whine I heard a while back in my buddy's lab. He
said it was due to a (loose?, worn out?) lamination on one of the
transformers in his experiment. I'm not saying that's what I think it
is, just that the whine sounds similar.

I know it's not much to go on, but where would you start looking?

grant
 
1

1932

Grant Baxter said:
I recently put together an el-cheapo computer to play with Linux. It
is making a high-pitched sound that I just can't track down. The whine
changes tone when the monitor is being scrolled. I've tried two
different video cards and it happens the same way with both.

Some of the components are: Giga-Byte GA-8VM800M-775, 2 sticks of
Ultra DDR memory, a fairly new HD, and a fairly new DVD burner (the HD
and DVD worked fine on another computer and made no noise).

It's the same type of whine I heard a while back in my buddy's lab. He
said it was due to a (loose?, worn out?) lamination on one of the
transformers in his experiment. I'm not saying that's what I think it
is, just that the whine sounds similar.

I know it's not much to go on, but where would you start looking?
Open the machine, and have a good listen inside.
You might be able to localise the noise.
 
P

philo

Open the machine, and have a good listen inside.
You might be able to localise the noise.


May sound funny but it works...
just use a small rubber hose

one end in your ear...the other to "sniff" out the source

(I used that method for balancing those dual-SU carburetors way back in the
olden days )
 
C

CBFalconer

Grant said:
I recently put together an el-cheapo computer to play with Linux.
It is making a high-pitched sound that I just can't track down.
The whine changes tone when the monitor is being scrolled. I've
tried two different video cards and it happens the same way with
both.

Some of the components are: Giga-Byte GA-8VM800M-775, 2 sticks of
Ultra DDR memory, a fairly new HD, and a fairly new DVD burner
(the HD and DVD worked fine on another computer and made no noise).

It's the same type of whine I heard a while back in my buddy's lab.
He said it was due to a (loose?, worn out?) lamination on one of
the transformers in his experiment. I'm not saying that's what I
think it is, just that the whine sounds similar.

I know it's not much to go on, but where would you start looking?

Where he said. Probably the monitor horizontal sweep xformer.
 
G

Grinder

Grant said:
I recently put together an el-cheapo computer to play with Linux. It
is making a high-pitched sound that I just can't track down. The whine
changes tone when the monitor is being scrolled. I've tried two
different video cards and it happens the same way with both.

Some of the components are: Giga-Byte GA-8VM800M-775, 2 sticks of
Ultra DDR memory, a fairly new HD, and a fairly new DVD burner (the HD
and DVD worked fine on another computer and made no noise).

It's the same type of whine I heard a while back in my buddy's lab. He
said it was due to a (loose?, worn out?) lamination on one of the
transformers in his experiment. I'm not saying that's what I think it
is, just that the whine sounds similar.

I know it's not much to go on, but where would you start looking?

Do you have any teenagers in the house?
 
K

kony

I recently put together an el-cheapo computer to play with Linux. It
is making a high-pitched sound that I just can't track down. The whine
changes tone when the monitor is being scrolled. I've tried two
different video cards and it happens the same way with both.

Some of the components are: Giga-Byte GA-8VM800M-775, 2 sticks of
Ultra DDR memory, a fairly new HD, and a fairly new DVD burner (the HD
and DVD worked fine on another computer and made no noise).

It's the same type of whine I heard a while back in my buddy's lab. He
said it was due to a (loose?, worn out?) lamination on one of the
transformers in his experiment. I'm not saying that's what I think it
is, just that the whine sounds similar.

I know it's not much to go on, but where would you start looking?

grant

The transformer lamination idea is getting close, it's
usually inductors on the motherboard. On your board it
would probably be these,
http://69.36.189.159/usr_1034/inductors.jpg

Some boards now have their inductors entirely encased in
epoxy, some would call that "potted" and it's more and more
common than it used to be to combat this problem. The
picture I linked above even looked like it had potted
inductors on first glance but it's resolution is too low to
be sure and they definitely aren't entirely potted as you
can see the copper loops of the coils from the top.

It's possible the inductors or transformer(s) in the PSU are
doing it instead, though less common. You could even be
exceptionally unlucky and have multiple inductors singing
for you.

You might be able to firmly press against them while you
hear the sound to cause a change or cessation of the noise,
if you can gain access to them (if heatsink/etc isn't in the
way).

There is no generic computer oriented fix for this, your
primary alternatives include either replacing the board (RMA
if possible, though not all manufacturers may accept this
reason if the board still works) or covering the coils to
keep them from vibrating. In the old days one might pull
them and dip in varnish, thinking TV sets, but that's not so
necessary today and more difficult to do as they're on a
rather large copper power plane.

Easier is to take some epoxy and smother the coils, the more
rigid and heat resitant the epoxy the better. (IE - hot
glue is what many people ask about and it is not a good
alternative, amoung the worst options though it "Might" work
(or might get hot enough to melt since inductors in this use
do tend to get a bit warm to hot depending on the load (CPU
and use, etc)).

I think some boards now have network jacks with integral
components, and those too may start singing and it's not so
easy to desolder one of those and rip it open, you might
find you need to disable the network adapter, use a network
card, and hope it quiets down from doing so.

I suppose it goes without saying that putting epoxy/etc on
the board, voids the warranty.
 
1

1932

philo said:
May sound funny but it works...
just use a small rubber hose

one end in your ear...the other to "sniff" out the source

(I used that method for balancing those dual-SU carburetors way back in
the
olden days )
I use it for 48 years in the motor trade.
Also used the screwdriver handle in the ear, for knocks
and ticks.

We had lotsa tricks in those days.
Oh for the good old days. <g>.
 
P

philo

I use it for 48 years in the motor trade.
Also used the screwdriver handle in the ear, for knocks
and ticks.

We had lotsa tricks in those days.
Oh for the good old days. <g>.


Well I owned my '59 TR-3 from 1972 through 2002.

I used to joke around with people that it required one hour of repair work
for every hour I drove it.
Then, one day i actually did the math and found out things were considerably
worse!!!
Put it up for sale on ebay and got $262 more than I paid for it.
(Yes , not much for 30 years)

(Must have spent a small fortune to keep it running all those years )

I miss my '53 Chevy 3100
I did most of the repairs to it without needing any manuals...
everything about it was intuitively obvious...

Heck...today I wonder if I could even change a tire :)
 
1

1932

philo said:
snipped some

I miss my '53 Chevy 3100
I did most of the repairs to it without needing any manuals...
everything about it was intuitively obvious...

Heck...today I wonder if I could even change a tire :)
I still think we`ve lived through the best time in history.
Things were Sane when we were young.
Now the world seems to be going Insane.

best wishes.
 
J

jameshanley39

kony said:
The transformer lamination idea is getting close, it's
usually inductors on the motherboard. On your board it
would probably be these,
http://69.36.189.159/usr_1034/inductors.jpg

Some boards now have their inductors entirely encased in
epoxy, some would call that "potted" and it's more and more
common than it used to be to combat this problem. The
picture I linked above even looked like it had potted
inductors on first glance but it's resolution is too low to
be sure and they definitely aren't entirely potted as you
can see the copper loops of the coils from the top.

It's possible the inductors or transformer(s) in the PSU are
doing it instead, though less common. You could even be
exceptionally unlucky and have multiple inductors singing
for you.

You might be able to firmly press against them while you
hear the sound to cause a change or cessation of the noise,
if you can gain access to them (if heatsink/etc isn't in the
way).

There is no generic computer oriented fix for this, your
primary alternatives include either replacing the board (RMA
if possible, though not all manufacturers may accept this
reason if the board still works) or covering the coils to
keep them from vibrating. In the old days one might pull
them and dip in varnish, thinking TV sets, but that's not so
necessary today and more difficult to do as they're on a
rather large copper power plane.

Easier is to take some epoxy and smother the coils, the more
rigid and heat resitant the epoxy the better. (IE - hot
glue is what many people ask about and it is not a good
alternative, amoung the worst options though it "Might" work
(or might get hot enough to melt since inductors in this use
do tend to get a bit warm to hot depending on the load (CPU
and use, etc)).

I think some boards now have network jacks with integral
components, and those too may start singing and it's not so
easy to desolder one of those and rip it open, you might
find you need to disable the network adapter, use a network
card, and hope it quiets down from doing so.

I suppose it goes without saying that putting epoxy/etc on
the board, voids the warranty.

this is very significant in terms of making a silent computer . Some
years ago I bought a VIA EPIA EDEN computer. There were no large 300w
or 400w fanless PSUs in those days. Standard thing was to buy a "power
supply card". Of the 2 makes available, both gave out a high pitched
whining noise. On contacting the technicians there, they said it was
the transformers were made of a cheap form of iron, rather than
ferrite. so the transformers were whining. Something like that anyway.


Smothering them in epoxy might have helped.. I'm shocked that some new
MBRDs may have this problem . It's scary buying a MBRD thinking it may
have that problem, and it not being documnted.

Howcome old MBRDs didn't have that problem?

Some Televisions are horrible culprits of high pitched whining noises..
So bad that I doubt opening them and using epoxy would help much!

Ideally, one would want to not be unlucky, and so get a computer
without transformers emitting a high pitched noise.

note: anybody here hasn't heard of epoxy, wikipedia seems to have it as
a glue that is an electrical insulator / non conductor. Can be used in
electronics to cover components to prevent shortcircuits. ... And
apperently, to quiten them if they whine!
 
R

Rod Speed

I still think we`ve lived through the best time in history.
Things were Sane when we were young.

Depends on when you were young. The 60s werent exactly sane.

Neither were the 50s in other ways.
Now the world seems to be going Insane.

The ancient greeks used to sit around in their togas
or whatever they wore and said the same thing.
 
K

kony

Smothering them in epoxy might have helped.. I'm shocked that some new
MBRDs may have this problem . It's scary buying a MBRD thinking it may
have that problem, and it not being documnted.

Howcome old MBRDs didn't have that problem?

Different rail voltage, different frequency switching of the
fets before the inductors, different current, higher
voltage. All combine to result in a frequency more likely
to approach the resonant frequency of the inductor.

Not all samples of a given board may have the problem
either, depending on the load (parts plugged into it),
random load of inductors used (remember we aren't
necessarily talking about boards made with *premium* parts,
it would be prohibitively expensive to make a motherboard,
PSU, etc, out of such parts. It's a bit of a wonder they
can even make a working board for under $75 when you
consider all the work, parts, and followup support that has
to go into it.



Some Televisions are horrible culprits of high pitched whining noises..
So bad that I doubt opening them and using epoxy would help much!

If you can get at the coils that are whining, fixing them in
place will solve any such whining on anything. Single layer
inductors are a bit easier, the epoxy doesn't have to seep
in to get to the inner layers so more often a soak in
varnish/whatever could be needed.
Ideally, one would want to not be unlucky, and so get a computer
without transformers emitting a high pitched noise.

Agreed, but practically any system has some flaws, this one
can be more annoying than many but at least there is a way
to fix it (unless part of an integrated network socket, but
someone intent on fixing that could replace the whole socket
assembly I suppose, if they can source a replacement (and it
might not be cheap, I've never tried to source one).



note: anybody here hasn't heard of epoxy, wikipedia seems to have it as
a glue that is an electrical insulator / non conductor. Can be used in
electronics to cover components to prevent shortcircuits. ... And
apperently, to quiten them if they whine!

Plain old glue would work too, just as long as it's
electrically non-conductive and not terribly magnetic, and
of course heat resistant. With epoxy you don't have to
worry about it melting but if it were to get too hot, it
might get brittle and since an inductor would inherantly
expand and contract with heating & cooldown, the epoxy could
come off.

Above I mentioned "terribly magnetic", I don't even know if
there are any epoxies terribly magnetic, unless it was
something special formulated specifically to be such. I
have on occasion mixed metal particules into epoxy to
fortify it (different use, not inductor related) but
generally even some common epoxies like JBWeld have some
(iron?) in them and I have successfully used JBWeld to quiet
inductors.

Superglue/cyanoacrylate might work too, I think some
formulations are rated to 150C temp, but a bit too thin to
fill gaps in an inductor (esthetics really, I would try to
keep the goop on the inductor instead of having it run out
onto the motherboard), and I don't know if any (let alone
all) of the thicker gel type superglues have the same temp
ratings. IOW, epoxy works so I continue to use it.
 
P

philo

Depends on when you were young. The 60s werent exactly sane.

Neither were the 50s in other ways.


The ancient greeks used to sit around in their togas
or whatever they wore and said the same thing.


As my friend, Ted_the_shrink once asked me:

"What ever happened to the good old days?"

I replied simply, "They have not yet come."
 

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