HaHa lets celebrate Vista sales are well below expectations!! MSFT has failed!!

[Paul-B]

The two factors that really tarnish the image of Linux is that most
who extol its virtues in these newsgroups have little or no
experience with it, and are only using it because they are
freeloaders who do not like to pay for anything, MS or otherwise, if
they can help it..

And you know this for a fact, do you?

Care to enlighten us all with the detailed anaysis you carried-out to
be able to arrive at this conclusion?

No?

Thought not!

 

[Mike Brannigan]

GOOD REPLY BUT...

Vista is actually extremely compatible with many application

A number of the apps above are actually driver issues which I addressed in
my response that you have chosen to edit here.
Live Messenger 8.1 works perfectly well on Vista.
Again you failed to do your research to ensure your hardware was compatibly,
and if there were updated Vista compliant versions of applications.
iTunes is an acknowledged issue by Apple - they are working on getting their
software compatible - shame given the massive amount of time that they have
had access to code to allow them to develop this - but that is their choice.

That's not good. Too many warnings and the user switches off. Who are
you kidding?

These are not false positives - again you have not fully understood the use
of UAC and in many cases you do not see these warnings during day to day
use - but only when you try and perform an admin level action or one that
does pose a risk to your system.

Put Win XP app and Wero App next to each other on your two laptops.
Now look measure size of top bar that contains application title. Now
measure width of border around sides of app. Who are you kidding?

Some UI changes have changed the way some application top "boarder" looks.
Windows explorer being an example.
So many other apps there may be a couple of extra pixel to the frame width
to as you put it show off the glass effect - but I do not see this as an
issue. Maybe you should embrace the larger monitors that more users are
using today and you would be less concerned by a pixel here or there.

You didn't read what i wrote. Win XP default theme is not old
fashioned Win95 grey. Its more modern blue and sculpted. You can't
that back on like I said they removed it. Your reading skills are not
up to much or are you so blinded by love for Vista it's temporarily
messed with them.

You did not read what I wrote - I was not passing comment on the XP theme
missing but actually about your point about the IE menu bar.

Err they removed the old WinXP file viewer. You can't copy it back on.
Have a look at the bootom menu bar... is that really the same size? No
they made it extra bid for the VCR control to fasat forward through
you jpgs. Ot maybe they just thought it was cool

As I said associate it with another application - go buy one or get some
shareware, You have a myriad of choices in viewers available to you.

You are just not trying so neither am I going to

Again your cutting of my comment is hiding the fact I clearly explained what
those BUTTON did when in icon view mode and that you had clearly not made an
effort to use the UI more and understand the functionality.

Fine, its a hard call. My point just this is a mess.


Hey if you cure them they will just kill each other anyway. A new OS
for smart people like myself is worth a more than saving a few of
them

'smart people like you' - this comment above even with the smiley where you
are obviously trying to deprecate your own comment, only goes to prove your
lack of "smarts" when you look at a bigger world picture.

We will see

indeed

I wrote a pretty careful analysis. You have contributed nothing. Sold
my personal MSFT shares after a couple of days with Vista. It was a
tough call and a lot of share, but think I see a company in trouble.
Work in finance, its my job.

I believe I carefully addressed each of your "issues" and your last comment
was a petty snipe that again your edit of the actual thread is trying to
hide.
I can't really comment on your last 2 sentences above as they do not
actually make grammatical sense. I assume you work in finance so after
careful analysis of your Microsoft stock using your "smarts" and skill in
your chosen field you decided to sell. Well there are other analysts who
would disagree, but your business is your own.

 

[Mike Hall - MS MVP Windows Shell/User]

Alias

I worked with Red Hat Linux, and have Suse Linux installed.. I don't do
'Ubuntu'..

I also didn't hurl insults.. that is the twist that you like to apply..

False. I even have a paid for XP Pro on this very machine that also has
Ubuntu on it.


So, hot shot, when will you muster the cojones to post on the Ubuntu
board? Are you all talk and no walk?


YOU are lecturing about hurling insults? That's rich, Mike.

Alias

--


Mike Hall
MS MVP Windows Shell/User
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/

 

[Mike Hall - MS MVP Windows Shell/User]

William

I don't remember replying directly to any remark made by you, but you should
know that Alias is a well known Linux troll in this newsgroup..

Mike,

I hate to say but either you are in a hurry today or you have lost
it....

I am the only person on this chain who even mentioned Linux... and I
said we should NOT be bashing Windows becuase of Linux .. i said it
was like comparing mountains and hills...

Are you important at Microsoft?

Maybe john was right after all...

--


Mike Hall
MS MVP Windows Shell/User
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/

 

[Mike Hall - MS MVP Windows Shell/User]

Paul

One factor so often quoted by Linux trolls is that one can get versions for
free which is better apparently than having to purchase from a money
grabbing company..

The second point is that the Linux trolls never actually explain why Linux
is better, other than because it is free..

Do you see how the 'free' word keeps appearing.. Alias can't give one good
reason for using Ubuntu other than because it is free and the user won't be
lining the pockets of MS..

And you know this for a fact, do you?

Care to enlighten us all with the detailed anaysis you carried-out to
be able to arrive at this conclusion?

No?

Thought not!

--


Mike Hall
MS MVP Windows Shell/User
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/

 

[Alias]

Alias

I worked with Red Hat Linux, and have Suse Linux installed.. I don't do
'Ubuntu'..

Like I said, all talk and no walk.

I also didn't hurl insults.. that is the twist that you like to apply..

What's this?:

"William

The nurse will get around to you presently.. "

A compliment? Tech help?

Alias

 

[Alias]

William

I don't remember replying directly to any remark made by you,

In this very thread you wrote, and I quote:

"William

The nurse will get around to you presently.."

Losing it, Mike?

but you
should know that Alias is a well known Linux troll in this newsgroup..

This above statement only reveals that you are a liar as well as someone
who insults people constantly.

Alias

 

[Alias]

Paul

One factor so often quoted by Linux trolls is that one can get versions
for free which is better apparently than having to purchase from a money
grabbing company..

This is true. It's also true that you get hundreds of great programs to
use with it for free.

The second point is that the Linux trolls never actually explain why
Linux is better, other than because it is free..

See below.

Do you see how the 'free' word keeps appearing.. Alias can't give one
good reason for using Ubuntu other than because it is free and the user
won't be lining the pockets of MS..

Here's some more:

More security from malware and viruses.

Easy and quick installation.

Very user friendly.

No WGA, WPA, ISS and other such ineffective anti-piracy nonsense.

When updates appear, it is for *everything* on your computer, not just
Windows so you don't have to go round all over the web to get updates
for programs and hardware.

It looks cooler. The start up jingle is much cooler.

You don't have to buy new hardware or a new computer to run it like you
do with Vista.

I have both XP Pro and Ubuntu on this machine and I find that the only
time I go to the Windows side is to update the AV and anti malware programs.

Alias, expecting old Mike to hurl his familiar "you're a troll"
knee-jerk reaction.

 

[mikeyhsd]

there was nothing worth responding to.
since as usual pop in RANT and AVE and never come back.
so why bother.
he has already stated he returned vista.

(e-mail address removed)@sport.rr.com

William

The nurse will get around to you presently..

Typical of you, Mike, hurling an insult and not replying to content at all.

Alias

 

[william.hooper]

I don't use Linux myself, but I know people who do. From what I hear
Linux has technical advantages... eg the desktop and OS are not
intergrated which aids security. If MS started again the way Apple did
maybe they would do it differently. But who cares, we need backward
compatibility so instead Windows must be gradually changed and that
will take many years. The new Vista security models are a way we maybe
run with admin rights and can still run malware - no problem from me
there if they work.

My issue is simply that I don't like the new emphasis on making
windows warm and friendly at the expense of the power user. Ever since
WinAmp skins became popular and Media Player followed the Windows GUI
I know and love has been on a crazy path. Media player even in XP is a
nightmare to actually use even though its a simple product. IE7 is
better than Firefox (eg protected mode and embedded font support), but
why the horrible interface I have to fix with registry changes? The
office 2007 ribbon is getting positive feedback for being friendly,
but as a power user I can't cope with them. No longer arranged
rationally it takes a long time to find things you want even if it's
easy to discover new features accidently. I don't like web folders, in
XP I could turn them off, in Vista you can't get back to a classic
control panel unless you are willing to put up with ugly empty spaces
on the left. One of my most used apps, Windows Explorer, has been
ruined for no reason at all. Its like MSFT is focusing on the risk
from Apple and forgetting their power user base. I edit my photos in
Photoshop like everyone else, why do I want big "make a video" buttons
in my .jpg view. It's all turning into a nightmare.

I want Windows to have the sexiest interface. But why didn't MSFT hire
some great Graphic Designers to create one? Why didn't they offer some
themes so I can switch between the fisher price look and an upmarket
Prada look? Aero is just not 'cool' and reminds me of the messy
Windows 1.0 before a graphic design team fixed it.

 

[Mike Hall - MS MVP Windows Shell/User]

Yes, I missed that one.. thanks for the heads up.. as usual you are doing a
sterling job.. if only you would commit your time to doing something
useful..

And you are still a troll..

In this very thread you wrote, and I quote:

"William

The nurse will get around to you presently.."

Losing it, Mike?


This above statement only reveals that you are a liar as well as someone
who insults people constantly.

Alias

--


Mike Hall
MS MVP Windows Shell/User
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/

 

[Mike Hall - MS MVP Windows Shell/User]

Inline..

Here's some more:

More security from malware and viruses.

Not strictly true.. read the IT press..

Easy and quick installation.

Vista installed for me in 20 minutes..

Very user friendly.

Only when you get used to it, as with any OS

No WGA, WPA, ISS and other such ineffective anti-piracy nonsense.

It will come..

When updates appear, it is for *everything* on your computer, not just
Windows so you don't have to go round all over the web to get updates for
programs and hardware.

One doesn't have to go everywhere with Windows except in the initial stages
maybe..

It looks cooler. The start up jingle is much cooler.

That's a hell of a reason to change if ever I saw one.. lol.. too funny

You don't have to buy new hardware or a new computer to run it like you do
with Vista.

If Ubuntu was as capable as some Linux Distros (example Suse Linux being the
rough equivalanet of XP Pro), one would indeed need to upgrade hardware..
and on this point, there has not been an OS released by anybody that has not
needed some hardware upgrading over a previous release..

I have both XP Pro and Ubuntu on this machine and I find that the only
time I go to the Windows side is to update the AV and anti malware
programs.

I have Vista and XP Pro on mine, and do roughly the same maintenance as you
re XP Pro..

Alias, expecting old Mike to hurl his familiar "you're a troll" knee-jerk
reaction.

Expect by all means.. consider it said..



Mike Hall
MS MVP Windows Shell/User
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/

 

[Adam Albright]

Yes, I missed that one.. thanks for the heads up.. as usual you are doing a
sterling job.. if only you would commit your time to doing something
useful..

And you are still a troll..

What exactly do you think you bring to this newsgroup in the way of
any benefit? Endlessly tooting your own horn implying how clever you
are only further inflates you're already bloated ego. Ever actually
HELPED anyone yet? I must have missed it.

 

[Paul-B]

Mike Hall - MS MVP Windows Shell/User wrote:

Paul

One factor so often quoted by Linux trolls is that one can get
versions for free which is better apparently than having to purchase
from a money grabbing company..

The second point is that the Linux trolls never actually explain why
Linux is better, other than because it is free..

Do you see how the 'free' word keeps appearing.. Alias can't give one
good reason for using Ubuntu other than because it is free and the
user won't be lining the pockets of MS..

The "free" factor is not insignificant, especially when you're a small
business. Look at it this way; I have a number of small businesses
(they make up 95% of my client-base) to whom I supply IT services. Now,
take the average office, which has a server and 15 workstations. To
supply such a system with Microsoft-based software is going to cost
£1500 for the server software, £120 for each workstation for the
operating system, £400 for each workstation to run Microsoft Office,
£500 for each workstation running Acrobat or Photoshop. That's £16800.
No virus-checkers needed, no anti-spyware software needed.

I can do exactly the same using Ubuntu plus the open-source software
which comes bundled with it for... actually, nothing.

And they are not going to have to upgrade their PC's for each new
flavour of Windows if they use Linux, in fact they'll probably use the
same machines for 5 or more years. If they want pretty eye-candy
desktops they can have Beryl, also free.

That's significant for any small business.

I've just supplied my first client with just such a setup, although
we're just using 4 workstations for a starter. And they're delighted
with the end-product which, incidentally, is running on 2500 Athlon
PC's with just 1Gb RAM and is noticeably faster than the same machines
running XP Pro.

Getting something free which does the job as well as or better than
something which you have to pay for makes perfect economic sense - in
fact you'd have to be stupid to pay for a product when you can get an
equivalent for nothing.

 

[william.hooper]

Mike Brannigan,

I rushed out and bought two copies of Vista to upgrade my machines. I
didn't understand how unlike previous upgrades I have used (even
Win95) this does not have perfect backward compatibility. Based on my
experience I think it would be irresponsible to advise someone normal
to upgrade a laptop for example (anyway others in press are saying
this as well). I am an excel, c# and c++ coder (used for writing
financial models) so I am much more experienced than your average user
but don't claim to be a propeller head.

I was also trying to make a point that Vista looks to me like an
attempt to make Windows look friendly at the expense of usability. I
personally feel like my long loved WinXP is being dummied down with in
Apple Mac style with a silly Aero interface that takes up more screen
space, no default menu bar in IE7, the PhotoViewer make a video
button, the web folders etc. Next thing MSFT will be trying to delete
the tree in Windows Explorer because it's too complicated Apple style.
Ever since WinAmp media skins, followed by the horribly complicated
but fun looking WindowsMedia player interface, things have been doing
downhill. Office 2007 ribbon is interesting debate but I think comes
out in same direction. I don't want to buy a shareware explorer, a
shareware file viewer, switch to Open Office etc. I will stay with the
old versions I guess.

I was also thinking that we are seeing half baked ideas coming out. I
read even Microsoft admit the IE7 interface is a mess. This is not the
focused disciplined company we knew once. Maybe Microsoft is slipping...
that's why I sold my shares.

It's nice for you Microsoft guys to respond in this forum, but I can't
get my point across and I don't think you are being honest, so it's
been a waste. I googled you and see you are a talented person working
for Microsoft, but maybe you are unable to be honest in reply.

William

 

[Alias]

Yes, I missed that one.. thanks for the heads up.. as usual you are
doing a sterling job.. if only you would commit your time to doing
something useful..

And you are still a troll..

In this very post, although you are obviously unaware of it, you've
insulted me twice.

Alias

 

[Alias]

What exactly do you think you bring to this newsgroup in the way of
any benefit? Endlessly tooting your own horn implying how clever you
are only further inflates you're already bloated ego. Ever actually
HELPED anyone yet? I must have missed it.

I've only seen him help people in the Windows Me group. Course, with
practically no one using Me anymore ...

Alias

 

[Alias]

Inline..



Not strictly true.. read the IT press..

LOL! I have and you're wrong.

Vista installed for me in 20 minutes..

A lie.

Only when you get used to it, as with any OS

Compared to Windows, much more user friendly.

It will come..

NO, it won't. You, of course, have no proof of this and obviously know
nothing about Open Source.

One doesn't have to go everywhere with Windows except in the initial
stages maybe..

Update your AV. Update Java. Update your malware apps. Update Adobe
Reader. Update this and update that. All have to be done individually
and almost none of them will tell you without opening the program that
you need an update.

That's a hell of a reason to change if ever I saw one.. lol.. too funny

If you're going to use a computer, it is nice to have a pleasant thing
to look at.

If Ubuntu was as capable as some Linux Distros (example Suse Linux being
the rough equivalanet of XP Pro), one would indeed need to upgrade
hardware.. and on this point, there has not been an OS released by
anybody that has not needed some hardware upgrading over a previous
release..

Um, Novell and MS are in bed together now. How come I'm not surprised
that you're pushing SUSE?

I have Vista and XP Pro on mine, and do roughly the same maintenance as
you re XP Pro..

You have to do it for both.

Expect by all means.. consider it said..



Mike Hall
MS MVP Windows Shell/User
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/

And you claim you don't insult anyone ,..

Alias

 

[william.hooper]

hey i notice the second most popular thread here today is someone
looking for a meda center replacement. that's another flagship vista
feature for the home user long with the photo gallery I hate. I tried
media center myself but just saw a blue screen take over then entire
screen with two icons in the middle and couldn't face going on. it
reminds me of those horrible window maximizing web sites with flash
films on that were in fasion for about 10 minutes.

I think there are others out there fed up with these 'cute' but
useless user interfaces.

a few years ago it would have been unthinkable for microsoft to be
releasing software thats fails so quickly...

 

[Mike Hall - MS MVP Windows Shell/User]

William

I haven't had many dealings with Media Center, but it was supplied OEM,
bogged down with 3rd party stuff, and confusing for the average user.. I
will admit to having heard little good about it.. it was an attempt to
increase the potential of higher end hardware that lacked proper
integration, and as a result only served to confuse as already stated..

Vista Ultimate's Media Center aims at simplicity, compared to Media Center
2005, and now there are complaints that it lacks some of the features and
usability of MC 2005!

Sometimes, we just can't win.. .. some seem to take to it better than
others.. if it was me, I would get my own XP Pro and dump MC 2005
altogether..

Windows ME failed incredibly quickly.. and users of Win 9x learned quite
quickly how to reformat and reload, some doing it weekly.. I know of a user
who, when he accidentally increased the Start bar to double height,
formatted and re-installed because he didn't know how to change it back..

hey i notice the second most popular thread here today is someone
looking for a meda center replacement. that's another flagship vista
feature for the home user long with the photo gallery I hate. I tried
media center myself but just saw a blue screen take over then entire
screen with two icons in the middle and couldn't face going on. it
reminds me of those horrible window maximizing web sites with flash
films on that were in fasion for about 10 minutes.

I think there are others out there fed up with these 'cute' but
useless user interfaces.

a few years ago it would have been unthinkable for microsoft to be
releasing software thats fails so quickly...

--


Mike Hall
MS MVP Windows Shell/User
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/