For PapaJohn: email to you bounces

[J. Daniel Smith]

John,

It looks like (some?) email to you is bouncing:

This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification.

Delivery to the following recipients failed.
P*p*J*hn@CharterMI-DOT-net

Reporting-MTA: dns;hotmail.com
Received-From-MTA: dns;mail.hotmail.com
Arrival-Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 09:08:52 -0800

Final-Recipient: rfc822;P*p*J*hn@CharterMI-DOT-net
Action: failed
Status: 5.0.0
Diagnostic-Code: smtp;579 message content is not acceptable here

I also tried from a different address with a similar failure; so I don't
think it's SPAM filtering on a HoTMaiL address.

Dan

 

[PapaJohn \(MVP\)]

Thanks Dan,

I've been having some email issues with my ISP for months now. I know that
Microsoft personnel can't get my emails or send them to me. But I don't know
how far it goes beyond them.

Charter says they are not filtering my mail.... BUT somehow it gets
filtered. I wish I knew.

PapaJohn

 

[J. Daniel Smith]

In addition to using an HoTMaiL address, I've also tried emailing you from
an @yahoo.com and @mail.com addresses, all with the same results. The
"message content is not acceptable here" error made me think that it might
be something with HTML, but I checked a few of the outgoing headers and the
MIME-Type was "text/plain".

Even stranger is that I have no problem sending email to other recipients in
the @CharterMI.net domain.

If you care to take the time to try to track this down with Charter, it
should be easy enough for them to create a HoTMaiL or Yahoo! address from
which to send you email; that way hopefully they can see the failure for
themselves.

Dan

 

[PapaJohn \(MVP\)]

I've had a number of sessions with Charter's tech support on this issue.
Probably time for another one.

I'm using HotMail to communicate with Microsoft personnel.

PapaJohn

 

[John Kelly]

Hi there,

I just did this test for you and the result is as follows...

(e-mail address removed) is possibly a valid email address.
The SMTP server (mx01.CharterMI.net) responded: 252 (e-mail address removed)
is an address with a correct syntax

So if CharterMI is bouncing your emails its because the server is somehow
not configured properly. The error message Mr Smith got indicates that the
message was parsed and found something it did not like, hence the bounce.

This message has also been sent direct to you, so as to see what happens.

 

[PapaJohn \(MVP\)]

Thanks for checking it John,

Got your email and my response back to you bounced. Here's the message I got
back:

PapaJohn
==================================
This message was created automatically by mail delivery software (Exim).

A message that you sent could not be delivered to one or more of its
recipients. This is a permanent error. The following address(es) failed:

(e-mail address removed)
forced failure:

------ This is a copy of the message, including all the headers. ------

Return-path: <[email protected]>
Received: from pxy5allmi.all.mi.charter.com ([24.247.15.44]
helo=proxy5-grandhaven.chartermi.net)
by mx0.123-reg.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #2)
id 1AQtC3-0005Gr-00
for (e-mail address removed); Mon, 01 Dec 2003 18:54:47 +0000
Received: from papajohn (24.247.119.99.kzo.mi.chartermi.net [24.247.119.99])
by proxy5-grandhaven.chartermi.net (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.11.6) with SMTP id
hB1Isig25318
for <[email protected]>; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 13:54:44 -0500
(EST)
Message-ID: <023401c3b83c$94833080$6501a8c0@papajohn>
From: "PapaJohn" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: For PapaJohn: email to you bounces
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 13:54:39 -0500
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
X-Charter-MailScanner-Information:
X-Charter-MailScanner:

Thanks John,

It came in fine.

PapaJohn

----- Original Message -----
From: "John Kelly" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, December 01, 2003 1:52 PM
Subject: Re: For PapaJohn: email to you bounces

Hi there,

I just did this test for you and the result is as follows...

(e-mail address removed) is possibly a valid email address.
The SMTP server (mx01.CharterMI.net) responded: 252 (e-mail address removed)
is an address with a correct syntax

So if CharterMI is bouncing your emails its because the server is somehow
not configured properly. The error message Mr Smith got indicates that the
message was parsed and found something it did not like, hence the bounce.

This message has also been sent direct to you, so as to see what happens.

===================================

Hi there,

I just did this test for you and the result is as follows...

(e-mail address removed) is possibly a valid email address.
The SMTP server (mx01.CharterMI.net) responded: 252 (e-mail address removed)
is an address with a correct syntax

So if CharterMI is bouncing your emails its because the server is somehow
not configured properly. The error message Mr Smith got indicates that the
message was parsed and found something it did not like, hence the bounce.

This message has also been sent direct to you, so as to see what happens.

sea.

 

[John Kelly]

Hi there,

That's good. Yes it will bounce, I had not enabled it for you... I didn't
expect you to respond that way.

Since posting in here I have been swamped with personal messages of thanks
and people asking really deep questions on Movie Maker and all sorts of
questions on XP itself. One day it was so bad I just deleted the lot and
sent a general message to mates etc to re-send...it was much easier that
way and that's why all my messages have the remark at the bottom, now,
saying do not reply by email unless invited to do so.

Oh heck, I have just noticed the duff email address, I thought I had
updated everything Sorry, that's my fault anyway. I will put that right
after this message.

 

[PapaJohn]

I guess my instincts are to reply in kind. For Emails and Posts, I use
'Reply to Sender' or 'Reply to Group'.

I don't take the time to try to unscramble or decipher email addresses that
are not sent with the email.
---
PapaJohn
www.papajohn.org

Hi there,

That's good. Yes it will bounce, I had not enabled it for you... I didn't
expect you to respond that way.

Since posting in here I have been swamped with personal messages of thanks
and people asking really deep questions on Movie Maker and all sorts of
questions on XP itself. One day it was so bad I just deleted the lot and
sent a general message to mates etc to re-send...it was much easier that
way and that's why all my messages have the remark at the bottom, now,
saying do not reply by email unless invited to do so.

Oh heck, I have just noticed the duff email address, I thought I had
updated everything Sorry, that's my fault anyway. I will put that right
after this message.

sea.

 

[J. Daniel Smith]

It would be interesting to see the full headers from Mr. Kelly's message
that you did get. John (Kelly) are you using a non-Microsoft email program?

PapaJohn, are you running any "special" software on your system? IIS?
Third-party Firewall? SPAM filter? Have you tried sending email to your
CharterMI.net account from a HoTMaiL or Yahoo! address? I'm wondering where
the X-Charter-MailScanner headers got added...

Dan

Thanks for checking it John,

Got your email and my response back to you bounced. Here's the message I got
back:

PapaJohn
==================================
This message was created automatically by mail delivery software (Exim).

A message that you sent could not be delivered to one or more of its
recipients. This is a permanent error. The following address(es) failed:

(e-mail address removed)
forced failure:

------ This is a copy of the message, including all the headers. ------

Return-path: <[email protected]>
Received: from pxy5allmi.all.mi.charter.com ([24.247.15.44]
helo=proxy5-grandhaven.chartermi.net)
by mx0.123-reg.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #2)
id 1AQtC3-0005Gr-00
for (e-mail address removed); Mon, 01 Dec 2003 18:54:47 +0000
Received: from papajohn (24.247.119.99.kzo.mi.chartermi.net [24.247.119.99])
by proxy5-grandhaven.chartermi.net (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.11.6) with SMTP id
hB1Isig25318
for <[email protected]>; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 13:54:44 -0500
(EST)
Message-ID: <023401c3b83c$94833080$6501a8c0@papajohn>
From: "PapaJohn" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: For PapaJohn: email to you bounces
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 13:54:39 -0500
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
X-Charter-MailScanner-Information:
X-Charter-MailScanner:

Thanks John,

It came in fine.

PapaJohn

----- Original Message -----
From: "John Kelly" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, December 01, 2003 1:52 PM
Subject: Re: For PapaJohn: email to you bounces

Hi there,

I just did this test for you and the result is as follows...

(e-mail address removed) is possibly a valid email address.
The SMTP server (mx01.CharterMI.net) responded: 252 (e-mail address removed)
is an address with a correct syntax

So if CharterMI is bouncing your emails its because the server is somehow
not configured properly. The error message Mr Smith got indicates that the
message was parsed and found something it did not like, hence the bounce.

This message has also been sent direct to you, so as to see what happens.

===================================

Hi there,

I just did this test for you and the result is as follows...

(e-mail address removed) is possibly a valid email address.
The SMTP server (mx01.CharterMI.net) responded: 252 (e-mail address removed)
is an address with a correct syntax

So if CharterMI is bouncing your emails its because the server is somehow
not configured properly. The error message Mr Smith got indicates that the
message was parsed and found something it did not like, hence the bounce.

This message has also been sent direct to you, so as to see what happens.

sea.

 

[John Kelly]

Hi there,

Yep, I know what you mean. I sometimes get in a bit of a mix with the new
news reader that I am using "NEWS ROVER" it really is very clever. It does
neat things like Creating an Interest Group. Such a group can collect from
different servers and more than one newsgroup and it bundles them together
under one name for you...it gets rid of duplicates and all that....so for
my database work I have an obviously named interest group called would you
believe "Database", it collects news feeds from three separate servers and
five newsgroups...all of that is transparent to me...I simply ask or reply
and the program sends it to the right place. But there are a lot of bells
and whistles and I am still making mistakes with it...but slowly slowly I
am getting there

 

[John Kelly]

No you may not see the headers from a private email I sent to Papajohn

 

[PapaJohn]

Dan,

I have Charter cable service, which comes into a Linksys router/switch, and
use Norton for Virus protection.

My firewall is whatever is provided by default in the router/switch.

My email software is Outlook Express. And I sometimes use Outlook to send
mail.

I get my Microsoft email from my Hotmail account by forwarding it from there
to my Charter address - with no problems.

 

[J. Daniel Smith]

Here's the response I got from p*stm*ster@chartermi-DOT-net:
-----
Hello Dan,
I found the real reason Charter will not accept your messages.
Your mail server for [...] is actually [...]

[...]

This server is listed with Spam Haus for spam/UCE email abuse. Charter
will NOT accept email from servers listed with Spam Haus.

The admins for [...], will have to contact Spam Haus to see about getting
unlisted.

Thanks -- Chris

-----

So contrary to whatever Charter's tech support may tell you, they *ARE*
filtering your incoming email.

The rather coarse server/IP technique they are using probably accounts for
failures from @HoTMaiL.com, @yahoo.com and @mail.com addresses.

You might try corresponding with your @microsoft.com contacts again and have
them report any failures to postmaster@...

Dan

 

[Guest]

-----Original Message-----
John,

It looks like (some?) email to you is bouncing:

This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification.

Delivery to the following recipients failed.
P*p*J*hn@CharterMI-DOT-net

Reporting-MTA: dns;hotmail.com
Received-From-MTA: dns;mail.hotmail.com
Arrival-Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 09:08:52 -0800

Final-Recipient: rfc822;P*p*J*hn@CharterMI-DOT-net
Action: failed
Status: 5.0.0
Diagnostic-Code: smtp;579 message content is not acceptable here

I also tried from a different address with a similar failure; so I don't
think it's SPAM filtering on a HoTMaiL address.

Dan


.

 

[John Kelly]

Hi Papajohn,

This is not filtering of your email...period.

This is a method of self protection and is employed by all good ISP's.
Indeed the source of most of the problems...Yahoo and AOL are actually
among the first to shut out other ISP's. If you take time to read your own
ISP's daily status you will almost certainly see comments about who is
closed out etc. It often gets mentioned when dictionary attacks or similar
occur.

No amount of debate will ever get your ISP to remove this self protection,
and in any case the overall issue is not your own ISP, its for the users
who belong to these blocked ISP's to sort their own issues out.

Most of these problems are because some ISP's do not fully regulate their
customers. The end result is simple and obvious...you simply ban the ISP
that is the source of the problem until such time as that ISP sorts its own
issues out...after all, would you be happy to pay extra to your own ISP
because it has to spend extra time sorting out problems caused by users
belonging to another network...well of course not.

I remember reading a thread some time back where a customer was demanding
that one of my ISP's sort out the situation on I think AOL (which is not
even an internet company in the strict sense). Where some of these people
get their ideas from is often a source of amusement.

If you think my remark about AOL is incorrect, get someone who is on AOL to
show you the headers of any email they receive. It has the expression "From
The Internet" and I am not sure if its still there, but in the fine print
it says something along the lines of the only service contracted for is the
internal AOL network.

Anyway, if this is the only area of difficulty with you receiving emails,
then I am afraid there will not be much you can do about it.

 

[PapaJohn \(MVP\)]

Thanks John,

Sometimes a Charter tech support person has me change the server setting so
my mail being sent is processed by a different server. Seems the filtering
by Charter varies by the mail server. But, whichever one I use, I have
problems of some sort.

My friends on AOL can get thru fine. My emails from Microsoft employees are
filtered out. Much of my SPAM and virus mailings come in fine.

As long as the sender gets a message saying that the email bounced, then at
least the communication process can keep going. But I know that some don't
get such messages; they can only assume I've gotten it and not responded.
Seems like I still have to work things out some more so people know they
didn't get through.

It's great that we can use this newsgroup as an alternate and even better
method of communicating when it comes to info about Movie Maker 2.


PapaJohn

Hi Papajohn,

This is not filtering of your email...period.

This is a method of self protection and is employed by all good ISP's.
Indeed the source of most of the problems...Yahoo and AOL are actually
among the first to shut out other ISP's. If you take time to read your own
ISP's daily status you will almost certainly see comments about who is
closed out etc. It often gets mentioned when dictionary attacks or similar
occur.

No amount of debate will ever get your ISP to remove this self protection,
and in any case the overall issue is not your own ISP, its for the users
who belong to these blocked ISP's to sort their own issues out.

Most of these problems are because some ISP's do not fully regulate their
customers. The end result is simple and obvious...you simply ban the ISP
that is the source of the problem until such time as that ISP sorts its own
issues out...after all, would you be happy to pay extra to your own ISP
because it has to spend extra time sorting out problems caused by users
belonging to another network...well of course not.

I remember reading a thread some time back where a customer was demanding
that one of my ISP's sort out the situation on I think AOL (which is not
even an internet company in the strict sense). Where some of these people
get their ideas from is often a source of amusement.

If you think my remark about AOL is incorrect, get someone who is on AOL to
show you the headers of any email they receive. It has the expression "From
The Internet" and I am not sure if its still there, but in the fine print
it says something along the lines of the only service contracted for is the
internal AOL network.

Anyway, if this is the only area of difficulty with you receiving emails,
then I am afraid there will not be much you can do about it.

sea.

 

[John Kelly]

Hi Papajohn,

It sounds as though you have some real problems with emails.

Up until I paid for some POP3 boxes I had some trouble too, but from the
sound of it less than you are getting. Since having my own Pop Boxes I
gained total control over my email. I decide what can get through etc. and
my ISP has no say in the matter at all (because the pop boxes are not on
their system) The other advantage is that I have literally an unlimited
number of email address's that I can play with, and owning three internet
domains gives me an even greater range...I could not come close to using
all of the facilities I have....but one of the neat advantages is that my
oldest son in London can use any ISP that suites and he can collect his
mail from one of my pop boxes. The same applies to my younger son in the
USA.

The big trick with SPAM (I have almost none since I started this) You will
remember when I first joined this group that my name/address changed
frequently. That's because every time one of the idiots scans the newsgroup
he would pick up new address's and then your mail box starts to fill. As
soon as SPAM started I changed the name...even that got a bore so now I
have what I call a "Mirror" address for use in newsgroups. You can send as
many emails as you like to my address "deadletters...etc" it will simply
bounce back and I won't even know that it happened. My dad once said, "If
you can not get the thing to work for you, you might as well not have it",
and largely I think that's right.

In the event that you want to know exactly how I do these things (If you do
not already know) Just ask, there is nothing clever in what I do, its just
knowing that you CAN that makes the difference

 

[Guest]

PapaJohn,

Since you're using OE and/or Outlook, another option that might work for you is to setup a Hotmail account. Both of these programs integrate with Hotmail so that you don't have to go to the website to read your email. Their SPAM filtering also seems to be fairly adequate...

Dan

 

[PapaJohn]

Thanks Dan, I use Hotmail also. I'll look into the integration.
--
PapaJohn
www.papajohn.org

PapaJohn,

Since you're using OE and/or Outlook, another option that might work for

you is to setup a Hotmail account. Both of these programs integrate with
Hotmail so that you don't have to go to the website to read your email.
Their SPAM filtering also seems to be fairly adequate...